[Closed] Battery Exploded in my Kitchen whilst we were sleeping...

Odd that, all mine passed, phone, battery chargers everything.

I took the liberty of having several chargers tested by the chap doing our office a few years back & both the ebay specials were binned there and then.

[url= http://www.righto.com/2014/05/a-look-inside-ipad-chargers-pricey.html ]http://www.righto.com/2014/05/a-look-inside-ipad-chargers-pricey.html[/url]

The joys of the global marketplace.

Once upon a time you bought stuff from the shop down the road, and if the supplier to that shop wanted to import stuff to sell then they had to make sure it met safety standards.

Nowadays you can skip all that "red tape" and buy untested and dangerously unsafe electronics more or less directly from the sweatshop that assembled it.

I can only see that becoming a bigger problem in the future.

Its not just batteries. The single biggest cause of household fires is TV's being on standby!!according to my local fire fighters. Scary.

Nowadays you can skip all that "red tape" and buy untested and dangerously unsafe electronics more or less directly from the sweatshop that assembled it.

Thinking about it, I'm surprised the government hasn't already clamped down on this. The general online marketplace appears to be totally unregulated. I suppose the old fashioned version of this was the Del boy market trader!

I hate stories like this - they add to my OCD about such things.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/aug/08/experience-my-microwave-nearly-killed-me

Better buy another fire extinguisher on the way home !

Fire fighter who lived across from me for a while said he had attended heaps of fires caused by plug-in air freshener thingies.

The single biggest cause of household fires is TV's being on standby!!according to my local fire fighters.

You mean in the category of electrical items in your lounge?
Cooking appliances are the no. 1 cause of accidental household fires and ciggies are no. 1 for fires leading to fatalities.

hels - Member

Better buy another fire extinguisher on the way home !

One of my brother's fire extinguishers exploded in the van last year. Just thought it worth mentioning 😉

So as long as I don't smoke, cook, watch TV or charge batteries I will be fine ?

Unfair on the cooking appliances and fags. The root cause is probably alcohol, falling asleep when drunk with the chip pan on while cooking toast under the grill and smoking a fag.

I'll stay away from the back of your brother's van Northwind, probably a rule to live by in any circumstance.

LiPo fires are not uncommon in the RC car racing world. Most tracks insist that you charge them in a bag and will remove you from site if you don't!
The downside of bags or tins is that if they do catch fire then you don't know about it until the fire is well established.

re charging in a biscuit tin - I checked with my weapons expert next-door neighbour and he confirmed that it would make the explosion worse as you've confined it and then fed it material for shrapnel. Best thing is lots of space to allow the energy of the explosion to dissipate.

So an empty garage or similar, should anyone happen to have one without it being full of crap...

breadcrumb - Member
I always charge mine on an inflammable surface. Think I'll go belt and braces with a biscuit tin too.

That's brave.. a tin full of petrol to add some excitement? 😉

I had one of those cheap cree XML lights, the charger exploded on first use. Small bang followed by smoke. The battery didn't appear to be affected.

OK.

What would people out there recommend as a good way of charging these batteries (irrespective of provenance)?

As I see it (and I don't really understand electricity)!

Charge at a time that is least risk - i.e. not whilst asleep.

Put batteries in something heat/flame proof.

Use an extension cable as this is likely to have a lower threshold fuse.

Is this a good approach whilst not going to the level of using some kind of Saturn V engine compartment?

re charging in a biscuit tin - I checked with my weapons expert next-door neighbour and he confirmed that it would make the explosion worse as you've confined it and then fed it material for shrapnel. Best thing is lots of space to allow the energy of the explosion to dissipate.

Pipe bomb anyone? Yeah the biscuit tin idea is not a good one. Explosions love a confined space.

This thread is a good reminder - just put 2 batteries on to charge.

Charge at a time that is least risk - i.e. not whilst asleep.

most definitely, the last thing you want is a fire in the house while you are sleeping

Put batteries in something heat/flame proof.

no, as above it will just create a much larger explosion

Use an extension cable as this is likely to have a lower threshold fuse.

might help a bit if the charger itself has a meltdown, but a battery could still explode

[img] [/img]

Pipe bomb anyone? Yeah the biscuit tin idea is not a good one. Explosions love a confined space.

Depends on the tin?

The reaction is contained within the battery, as an electrical fire the only outputs are gas and heat and a small ammount of solids, and the inputs aren't flamamble. I'm guessing there's not much combustible material being ejected? So all that would happen is the lid of the tin would get blown off.

I'm more concerned about the lack of ventilation and the potential for some flamable vapour to accumulate in the tin under more normal circumstances, which could then explode.

the inputs aren't flamamble

Mmmm... melted plastics burn pretty well though.

[s]Bloody Eurpoean Union beauracracy [/s]

Thank God for CE marking and proper market regulation / testing / certification requirements.

Thank God for CE marking [s]and proper market regulation / testing / certification requirements.[/s] where pretty much anyone can stick a mark on and call it good.

FTFY.

CE mark is good [i]IF[/i] it is legitimate AND independently verified.

Mmmm... melted plastics burn pretty well though.

Yes, but the energy in those compared to the battery itself?

The only videos i've seen of LiPo battey fires the flame's more like a welding torch than anything else as the flame is the gas being vented from inside the cell at very high temperatures. I'd put money on it cutting a hole straight through a biscuit tin.

Yay! for the LiPo bag.

Anyone got a link to Smudge's decent chargers for these cheapo units were all rocking then?

That looked a lot less contained than the ones I'd seen, it didn't seem to vent in the same way. Either way the smouldering remenants at the end are the plastic burning, the bulk of the energy for the fire came from the batteries internals reacting exothermicly.

honestly, what were people expecting when paying £20 for 5 million lumens. Support local companies like exposure and as a bonus your house won't burn down.

So all that would happen is the lid of the tin would get blown off.

Yes I agree, almost added that if it was a typical press on lid. Biscuit tin is probably useless then?

g5604 - Member

Support local companies like exposure and as a bonus your house won't burn down.

I know a person whose exposure light exploded. By all means assume local stuff is completely safe but if he had, his house might have burned down... Electrical stuff is fundamentally all caged demons waiting for a chance to **** you up

Support local companies like exposure and as a bonus your house won't burn down.

Or support [url= http://www.crgmoto.co.uk/mountain-bike-lights-26-c.asp ]local companies (run by fellow STWers) selling good quality Gloworm lights from New Zealand[/url] that won't burn your house down*

*probably.

re charging in a biscuit tin - I checked with my weapons expert next-door neighbour and he confirmed that it would make the explosion worse as you've confined it and then fed it material for shrapnel. Best thing is lots of space to allow the energy of the explosion to dissipate.

So an empty garage or similar, should anyone happen to have one without it being full of crap...

I'm pretty sure it would have to be under pressure to have the frag grenade type effect you're describing. The biscuit tin wouldn't be well enough sealed and the explosion wouldn't be big enough. I'd say the biscuit tin would at least slow the spread of any possible fire.

A similar thing to the op happened to a friend of mine, her chinese lights nearly burned down her workplace.

I wonder if/when someone is killed as a result of these chinese lights will people maybe start to see them as less of a bargain 🙄

Yes I agree, almost added that if it was a typical press on lid. Biscuit tin is probably useless then?

It'd probably be better than nothing. I admit I've not really given it much thought before, and just ordered some lipo safe bags and will probably charge them in those, in an old ammunition box, I don't think it's sealed well enough to explode, it's just a very sturdy metal box with a tough lid. Could always drill loads of holes in it if I was worried.

The biscuit tin wouldn't explode like a grenade - grenades take a large amount of pressure before exploding at which point the parts which are designed to break into small pieces do lots of damage. How much pressure do you think a biscuit tin will take before the top pops off? What you're trying to do is dissipate the explosion which even the biscuit tin would do up to the point the top pops off. (Obviously this assumes a non-screw top type lid and nothing too difficult to fit...)

Well, ironicaly I just ordered my LiPo safe bags from China, so I await my cheap batteries exploding and the bags being useless.

Still think I'll drill the amo box and fit an extension lead, and have the charger and battery in the box, and do it outside from now on.

I probably wont stop using cheap batteries, just be sensible how I charge them.

Are there any instances of the batteries exploding in use? I imagine a far more dangerous incident would be one going off in a back jersey pocket!

Put batteries in something heat/flame proof.

Sorry - should have been more specific - I did realise about the confinement issue.

What I mean is a heavy, oven-proof pan like a le Creuset metal/enamel pan or lid, effectively a heat-proof surface with a bit of protection at the sides.

I charge mine like this just to be on the safe side

[img] [/img]

It would be interesting to know of the batterys had an protection circuit on them? did the packs have a little circuit board soldered onto them?

was the charger the same as used previously?

from what i understand the modes of failure are that the insulation in the battery can be damaged (dropped etc) causing a short or the batterys get an over voltage from the charger. All the pics in the links above show the battery being force over volted. i would have thought that it would have had to be a double failure of both the charger and the circuit on the battery to cause this?

Well, ironicaly I just ordered my LiPo safe bags from China, so I await my cheap batteries exploding and the bags being useless.

Nah, you'll be fine.

Unless....where did you buy the fire extinguisher from?

Unless....where did you buy the fire extinguisher from?

I bought one form Tesco for the car*, the plastic head/nozle/lever bit cracked and fell off!

*the MG after the garrage forgot to put the clip on the fuel line so it sprayed direclty form the fuel pump directly onto the exhaust manifold, the more it leaked, the more power droped, the more I pressed the accelerator, etc etc, I trust the Ford not to blow up on me.

Nothing wrong with buying online from a reputable source e.g. apple store. It's when you buy from some random fleabayer at a price that is too good to be true.

Indeed. But have be cautious even when buying from amazon and the likes.

regarding in a tin - the lid should pop off. But if not then the building up of gases is a problem in that you will at some point open the lid, probably in a rush when you smell burning and at that point you could get a sudden flash which could seriously injure you.

Fireworks in a tin are to be protected from flames outside.

The lipo bags are a good idea, flame proof and elastic.

A Lipo bag in a well ventilated and non-flammable box would be my suggestion. A large metal tin with lots of holes and a slab of spare tile on the bottom to prevent electrics shorting out would be a good bet. Even better if you can put it somewhere outside but out of the rain.

But yes, you do have to ask that if you need to go to those lengths then is it really something you want to be using in your home?

I think poor chargers are the main culprit but cells to fail due to defects or damage or electrical shorts etc as demonstrated so well by Boeing. We used to get nicads blow up in less spectacular fashion when overcharged or at the end of their lives. Messy and would melt stuff (I once melted my RC car transmitter charging AAs) but the lipos are a lot more potent.

Still not as bad as putting 60L of highly flammable fuel in an old 2nd hand car and driving around at 70mph though. If petrol engined cars were invented now i think H&S would kill them straight away.

Reading this thread has just convinced me that i'm better off saving up and buying a second Exposure light to go on my bars, rather than a £15 ebay special.

I'm not sure I have time to put on my blast suit, load the batteries and charger into a blast proof quality street tin, surrounded by sandbags in the middle of the lawn prior to charging them up.

I'm not sure I have time to put on my blast suit, load the batteries and charger into a blast proof quality street tin, surrounded by sandbags in the middle of the lawn prior to charging them up.

That's a bit OTT, and as northwind says, Exposure (or anyone else) aren't immune from battery failures, you could buy cheap lights and get batteries from torchy or smudge if you're worried.

Northwind - Member
I know a person whose exposure light exploded. By all means assume local stuff is completely safe but if he had, his house might have burned down... Electrical stuff is fundamentally all caged demons waiting for a chance to **** you up

Lithium batteries are always a risk no matter how well they've been made and what safety certificates they have.

It's just the better ones have good under and over charge protection in both battery and charger, and the chargers aren't lethal deathtraps or the batteries made from dead recycled laptop batteries. They could still go pop, but they are far less likely to.

Anyway, as I'm a fan of them, another local one to chuck in is [url= http://www.four4th.co.uk ]Four4th[/url]. Local to Aldershot that is, and well regarded by local groups, well built and great support. Thing to say though is if you pop in for a chat Del himself will give you a tutorial about safe battery charging and precautions to take.

This is all stuff that's been long known to the RC guys who've been taking this very seriously.

hmmm might buy on of those bags. Guilty of charging cheapo lights overnight for the last 3 years. Maybe that's why I never win the lottery

freeagent - Member

Reading this thread has just convinced me that i'm better off saving up and buying a second Exposure light to go on my bars, rather than a £15 ebay special.

I wouldn't use the battery or charger from most £15 lights. But that doesn't mean you have to spend a lot, the higher end Magicshines come with quality batteries and chargers, as do many fluxients and some other inexpensive lights. Or buy a higher quality battery and charger for a cheap light- not what I'd do, but it's an option. Just means it's a good idea to get away from the barrel scrapings

Anyone got a link to Smudge's decent chargers

Google 'mtbbatteries'

Are there any instances of the batteries exploding in use? I imagine a far more dangerous incident would be one going off in a back jersey pocket!

I was wondering this - I have been known to attach the battery for my helmet light to the back of my helmet 😯

Crikey, I've got one of these sitting around from last year.

Im scared to plug it in now.

If it's dodgy and there's a short circuit then it could go pop during a ride. Advice usually is they should be kept in a Li-Po bag or similar when storing also.

Thermal runaway is the main risk, but if there is protection in there and quality controlled to ensure a short circuit is not likely then should be okay. Still, see the many cases of recalled laptop, phone, etc batteries, and some catching fire on planes even though they're not charging.

There's a difference between Lithium-Ion and Lithium-Polymer, though not sure what difference there is when it comes to charging and safety.

Generally, a good quality battery will be fine riding and storing. Just keep an eye on it while charging.

I have 2 Exposures and don't charge at night. Given that the MaxxD takes around 6hrs plus to charge it does indeed get left attended, while at work. Can't see other option really.

There's a difference between Lithium-Ion and Lithium-Polymer, though not sure what difference there is when it comes to charging and safety.

I think it's the LiFePO (Lithium Iron Phosphate) you're thinking of, lithium poymer batteries never (as yet) made it to comercialisation (the idea is to replace the electrolyte with a polymer thus making a flexible battery that couldn't short out), if you buy lithium polymer batteries it just means a lithium ion battery in a plastic case/pouch, rather than in a metal shell (phone battery Vs 18650).

LiFePO batteris are inherently safer, but slightly lower volages and lower max discharge currents.

Just a point of balance. I've had all sorts of dodgy lights and batteries from various sellers and I have not died to death yet. I charge them in the garage, on the workbench and have a smoke alarm. they are often left charging overnight, occasionally for days at a time. I'm not saying it will not happen, but so far no problems.

I'm now using mtbbatteries so not such a worry.

From previous experiences of neighbours and freinds,

Tumble drier caught fire, dragged outside,

fridge freezer caught fire, burnt out garage.

Chip pan caught fire, melted side of freezer and deposited microwave off top of freezer onto chippan that then showered the kitchen in hot burning fat, flat and contents destroyed,

TV left on standby, caught fire, wet blanket thrown ovweer top when power switched off and tv taken outside,

Microwave caught fire, due to person drying knicker in it,hospital staff comunal kitchen,

Only the last one had working smoke alarms, all caused damage and smoke, now imagine if it was night time and you where sleeping.

thisisnotaspoon - Member
I think it's the LiFePO (Lithium Iron Phosphate) you're thinking of, lithium poymer batteries never (as yet) made it to comercialisation (the idea is to replace the electrolyte with a polymer thus making a flexible battery that couldn't short out), if you buy lithium polymer batteries it just means a lithium ion battery in a plastic case/pouch, rather than in a metal shell (phone battery Vs 18650).

LiFePO batteris are inherently safer, but slightly lower volages and lower max discharge currents.

Ah, okay.

Well I've got one of these which is described as Lithium Polymer aka Li-Po

http://four4th.co.uk/products/batteries/pouch-battery-3300mah/

and one of these old ones which is described as Lithium Ion (Li-Ion)

http://four4th.co.uk/products/batteries/compact-battery-2600mah/

The pouch one seems to be a resin / moulded plastic shell, and the other I think may be a battery pack inside with regular style batteries, all wrapped up in a rubber container. So what you say makes sense I think.

I wasn't particularly worried about the fire/exploding side of things (especially as I work from home), but the solastorm I bought had such a low quality battery and charger, that I never used them.

Instantly bought reputable protected 18650 cells, a 4x Nitecore charger and a battery box.
Total cost was about £45 I think, but it works on all three of my lights and can also charge the batteries for my head torches.

You need good protection back at the fuse board......or maybe not
[img] ?openElement[/img]
fake MCB
And a not fake MCB
[img] [/img]

A hollow concrete block can be used to contain a charging battery** - with a plastic bag filled with kiln dried sand or similar stuck on the top. If a blaze ensues the bag melts and the hollow in the concrete block is filled with the sand to extinguish the pack / cells.

** not ideal for the kitchen / dining room i guess.

I store RC lipo packs in charge sacks which are then inside ammo tins or similar and they only live in the garage on a concrete floor. I understand the metal can cells common to bike lights are more tolerant of abuse than the "soft" lipo's i am referring to. I also think the charger plays a large part in both cell life and risk of over charge etc. The RC stuff often has max time limit and total energy input as a backstop to voltage monitoring. Its hard to see how the small plug in bike light chargers can offer similar backstops - although i think some cells have protection; assuming you trust your supplier.

I feel in house charging for bike stuff on draining boards using pyrex or similar is prudent along with being in the viscinity too. That is the approach i take for my ayups.

Having experimented with an old (small) LIPO using welding gloves and "remote nail knocking in" in the garden i can confirm that a healthy respect for these sources of energy is appropriate!

Looking for Lipo bags I notice the vast majority are on ebay and I have been concerned where they come from and if they are actually going to do the job at all. i.e. are they cheap fake knock offs, like half the stuff on ebay.

Well...

(thanks to dude on SFMB FB group for the link).

It's a fire-containment bag. Making a highly flammable one that can be sold for cheaps suggests a degree of moral turpitude that really makes me feel quite dirty.

😕

Hmmm, I've got a FUBAR'd magicshine battery, time for some testing when my cheap bags arrive methinks!

What's the quickest/easiest way to push them over the edge? Hook it upto an old car battery, or car battery charger?

Hammer a nail through it.

It's one of those magicshine batteries in the metal case and the charge/voltsge indicator, thinking about it, I'll remove it from that first, otherwise it really will explode!

Interesting thread. One which I take very seriously.

One evening I thought I could smell smoke or an electrical burning smell. I wondered round the house for a while checking the kids hadn't left something plugged in. Checked the kitchen. Nothing. Was about to go to bed then something caught my eye out the front door. A flickering light. I thought next door were smoking which would have explained the smell so thought nothing of it. I went to walk upstairs....then suddenly something just made me check outside the front door in case. I walked out and saw next doors out cupboard door fully open. Their tumble dryer was on fire and the whole cupboard too. Had to get my whole family including kids out my house in their PJ's, everyone out my neighbour's house. Fire brigade came. A neighbour contained it by chucking water over it but I didn't stick around for any of that. Out cupboard is where the gas comes in!

They had to use industrial fans to clear the smoke out of both houses for hours before we could go back in. Next door had to have the front of the house rebuilt. If I had "just gone to bed".....

At night, I don't mind smart phones and tablets left on charge, or TV's. But I do walk around locking up and turning most things off.

I only charge my 18650 cells when I'm sat next to them all day at work. I don't even leave them overnight at work.
I would argue it's more the chargers that are the cause. I bought a fairly good charger XTAR WP2, and it charges any 18650 I've reclaimed from old laptop cells no problem. It also cuts off properly when full even on unprotected cells. I still monitor it though beside my desk.

Hammer a nail through it.

Don't do this unless you know it's fully discharged to 0V. Also not with your hands or face anywhere near it, charged LiPOs eject a lot of hot gas when punctured.

i bought my lights from CandBSeen about 2 years ago...i have on several occasions left the charger plugged in overnight without any problems...the charger has a safety cut out once the battery is charged.
the batteries are 18650 Lithium-Ion so not LiPo...but now reading these horror stories of exploding chargers and batteries i'm scared to charge them in the house so they get charged at work.
but obvioulsy if i need the lights over the weekend then i'll need to charge them at home....should i be worried?
it would be interesting to hear what any other CandBSeen light owners think

People leave their laptops plugged in and charging all the time and yet I see no stories about office buildings burning down due to the batteries exploding?
I can understand being careful with cheap Chinese lights (or any knock-off goods) but I'm happy to trust the mainstream branded laptops/ phones / cordless Dyson.....

[i]I see no stories about office buildings burning down due to the batteries exploding?[/i]

There's been an awful lot of laptop battery recalls over the last few years, though, so someone sees it as a possibility.

There are a lot of cases of fires in the home caused by faulty batteries/chargers.

I'm sure there are a few with offices also, but a business is far more likely to source their equipment from a reputable source in the UK, not a £1 knock-off charger on ebay from China 😉

Most offices I've worked in do safety checks on all connected equipment and a certification sticker slapped on each device, with a check made each year at least.

As for stuff burning/exploding in use. Check out the many YouTube videos of RC planes etc burning in the air! 😀

Or, iPhone 6 catching fire in your pocket? ...

http://philliplechter.wordpress.com/2014/10/14/my-apple-iphone-6-bent-and-caught-on-fire-in-my-front-pocket/

Admitted the guy had been tipped out of a rickshaw thing and I guess the phone took a knock. But that's something people don't realise, lithium batteries don't take nicely to being knocked about. Something to consider if you've had a tumble on the bike wearing lights, the battery might get damaged. I was warned about this when I bought mine and told if the battery gets a big knock then to take it back to get it checked out.

In summary though, just because you've been charging away for years with no problem, doesn't mean it can't go pop some day. It happens. Take care and again, don't leave batteries charging unattended.