[Closed] Bar mounted lights are ******* rubbish!

Both

I'd say it's down to beam pattern - for a headtorch you want soemthign with a fairly narro wbeam (like a torch) but for bar you want more of a flood.

As you say, head mount is worse than useless in rain, snow or mist but I find no bar mount deprives you of a lot of peripheral light (assumign you use a 'real' bike light).

P7 torch with a bar mount

I strapped a cabbage to my bars and that was rubbish as well.

down to beam pattern

Correct, there's a reason there's a market for specific riding lights.

how much runtime from a medium Savoy ?

a P7 torch's performance blows bike specific HIDs (we all thought were the best lights imaginable a few years ago) away.

If I can see every inch of trail I'm actually riding with a helmet mount on medium (only needing full power for fast DH) why would I need a wider beam patern stuck on my bars pointing in the wrong direction?
other than to wake up the wildlife in the neighbouring county? 😕

and it's carrots that help you see in the dark not Cabbages, silly 😉

bar mounted powerful light and helmet light = perfect combo for off road, the spread of the ones like liberators/maxx daddy's etc is amazing on the bars, then having a nice tight beam on the lid to follow where you are looking and the bars to light directly infront of the bike!

they really arent rubbish if you have the right one, i for one wouldnt be able to do the rides i do at night with just a helmet p7 torch...

i'm too tall for a helmet light, i hit enough branches as it is without adding more height up there, bar mount for me

If I can see every inch of trail I'm actually riding with a helmet mount on medium (only needing full power for fast DH) why would I need a wider beam patern stuck on my bars pointing in the wrong direction?

Depth of field. With the light on your helmet you can't see shaddows. With on on your bars, you can't see round corners. Both: Best of both worlds.

[i]how much runtime from a medium Savoy[/i]

Not sure - I run a sprout as a helmet mount and it's all the brassica you'll ever need imo.

Well I may not agree with you much GW but I do here. 😉

Exactly the same, I always used to use an Exposure bar mounted light and never really thought it was a problem. Got in the habit of "wiggling" the bars momentarily to light an area you wanted to see.

Recently I've been running a 230 lumen DX torch on my helmet along with the Exposure and found that I'm generally concentrating on that beam rather than the Exposure one. Out last night a guy we were with only had a hiking type headlight so halfway round I gave him my DX torch to put on his helmet.

The result? With the bar mount only I was all over the place on trails that I know well and usually manage fine in the dark. Being used to being able to point the head torch anywhere and light any area then suddenly being deprived of that ability made me hopeless.

I suppose having both is best for all conditions but I'm definitely more in favour of head mounted now.

the light i built myself has a very wide spread of light in addition to a bean infront..

works well, though can see the benefit of helment light.. (fixing things in the dark for one!)

TreeMagnet - Shadows? Yes I can, I already explained how.

didzy - what do you ride at night? I've done everything from XC to fast/slow techy DH to dirtjumping with a single helmet mount with no probs.

rocketdog - try bending? 😕

What's all this about riding with bright lights at night, just use the force

Ideally it's better to have both, but I did OK for a couple of years with just my bar mounted Lumicycles. The beam spread was fine and there was only a small number of situations where I was left 'blind' as the spread of the light was so good.

LED systems that I have seen/used all seem to have a much narrower spread of light, which means you are 'blind' more often using them on the bars as you don't have so much leeway from straight ahead.

I recently invested in a Spokeshirts light to use solely as a helmet light and it is definitely better to ride with a combo of helmet & bar mount.
As others have said though, helmet mount alone definitely reduced my ability to gauge obstacles/roots/drops etc. I guess it's down to the generation of shadows and the way this is altered with a helmet light.

Last week at Thetford a mate's lights died, so I lent him my helmet light and carried on with my bar mounted Lumi LED conversion - just the one can. It was very difficult riding with just this light compared to when it was in it's original halogen guise as the spread was so narrow. Previously I had run it alongside a halogen can and hadn't noticed, but it was really noticeable how narrow the beam is for bar mount when used on it's own.
When I convert the other can, I intend to use the higher powered driver and use the medium optic to help with the spread.

didzy - I agree liberators etc. are amazing bits of kit but you really don't need to light the entire forest, just where you are going.

I bring a head mounted torch set up in my Camelback "just in case" but never need it. 1800+ lumens of well spread light on the bar is more than enough.

As others have said though, helmet mount alone definitely reduced my ability to gauge obstacles/roots/drops etc. I guess it's down to the generation of shadows and the way this is altered with a helmet light.

I already explained how to guage obsticles in my original post, try it? 😉

Thats why I have [url= http://www.ayup-lights.com/systems/lighting-systems/v4-adventure/ ]these[/url]

My Hope Vision 4 does a splendid job of being my only source of light on my bars.

Don't let other people's experiences get in teh way of your prejudices though.

Brighter light on helmet an dimmer light on bars seems best for me.
Dimmer light stays on for whole ride and bright one for anything a bit twisty rocky or rooty. Dimmer bar one good for road bits and ride to/from the actual 'mountain biking' bits without 'upsetting' motorists.

GW - i can see your point as i recently have started using a joystick mk3 alongside my maxx daddy, had people say it wouldnt add anything as the maxx daddy just outpowers the smaller joystick - but thats rubbish, the joystick adds a great depth to the already impressvie maxx daddy, and in technical descnets around the peaks where rocks lie in await furhter down the track, the helmet light really comes into its own, also on bends before you start to turn the bars you can suss it out by pointing your head in that direction.....

i defo wouldnt be without the joystick now, its added greatly to mine maxx daddy and ive been pretty impressed, however there is no way i could run just the joystick on the helmet without the spread of the bar mounted maxx daddy, in some instances up peaks etc you do need to 'light the forest' just to get an idea of where the hell you are 😆

all in all perfect combo having bar and helmet for me 🙂

ohh and the joystick pee's all over a dx 900 torch, its an excellent little torch for its weight and only 300 lumens!

I've thought for a while that the race for as many lumen as you can has gone a bit far

If I wanted the trail to look like it does in daylight, I'd go & ride it through the day

did I ask for a list of which brand and model lights any of you have? 😕 you just can't help yourselves can you? 😆
but Surf-Mat, you're prob winning 🙄

I've got bar mounted magic shine, love it.

If I wanted the trail to look like it does in daylight, I'd go & ride it through the day

Not if you're working 9-5 six days a week and it's winter you won't - unless you only wanna ride once a week.

The point about night riding is it allows us to do in the dark what we'd rather be doing in daylight but can't.

Or that's the point for me at least.

[i] as soon as you hit a corner, weave in and out of anything tight, lean into anything, lift/dip the front, drift the bike or jump anything you are left practically blind.[/i]

All part of the fun 🙂

Not if you're working 9-5 six days a week and it's winter you won't - unless you only wanna ride once a week.

Once in the daylight & once in the dark for me - I just like night rides to be - well - a bit darker than daylight ones
Some of the lights you see out now turn the place brighter than your average cloudy day

OMG -the mythical "Peak" returns! 🙄 it really is nothing out of the ordinary. 😕 Do no "Peak riders" ever ride elsewhere? 🙄

surely you plan your route for a night ride (even if vaguely)?

too busy to read it all but head torches are great until it rains or snows heavily then you cant see naff all.

one on bars one on head is for winners

as soon as you hit a corner, weave in and out of anything tight, lean into anything, lift/dip the front, drift the bike or jump anything you are left practically blind.

Must be a crap light, I hardly ever lose my illumination...

I did bar-mounted, then head-mounted, now both. I really like having both - and they don't need to be uber-powerful/expensive to do a great job. Wider more powerful flood on the bars, narrower less powerful spot on the head. Run the bars on low except when going really fast. Switch the head off on all the fireroads so the battery lasts long enough. In tight twisty woodland singletrack bars-only means you have to remember what was in front of you when you turn the bars and you can't look ahead round corners. When it's raining the reflections from head-only mess with your head!

GW - ok i agree with everything you stated in your first post, this is what you want to hear, yeah?!?!?!? 100% agreement that what you stated is CORRECT?? well here you go, i agree, ffs miserable sod! 😆

if you ride the peaks you dont really need to go anywhere else as nothing is better in the uk 😆

yeah i plan routes before, naturally, but there are often obstacles to tackle that a map cant foresee, ie, about 30000000000 million big **** off rocks in different places each time you go 😆

but yeah you are right though, congrats 🙄

I had a Niteflux mounted on the bars, briliant it was, until it developed a fault. The replacment, though the same model was dire. No one could ride with it. I finally got some Seca race. They are fantastic bar mounted even if they are 300 lumens less than my previous lights. So its clearly not all down to lumens.
I do actually solo night ride on an old joystick. I have that on the side of my lid. To dim for group rides.

All part of the fun

if "fun" for you involves often riding way slower than in daylight with an interupted stop-start style, frequently losing momentum and not having any flow. then yeah 😉

did I ask for a list of which brand and model lights any of you have? you just can't help yourselves can you?
but Surf-Mat, you're prob winning

You just started a thread saying bar mounted lights are sh1t. Some of us disputed this. Oh and BTW I didn't name the model of my light.

A good bar light is all you need.

A pathetic trolling attitude is NOT what you need.

I can't believe you two have managed to start getting pissy with each other about lights.

Only thing for it is a 'ride off' on each others' trails with each others' choice of head/bar light. And a cuddle.

[edit] fwiw having tried both extensively, I am mostly with GW on where to put one's lumens. But perhaps its just my local trails.

+1 on the cuddle

(i beat SM on the lumens count anyway... everyone bow down to meeeeeee!!!)

[b]if you ride the peaks you dont really need to go anywhere else as nothing is better in the uk [/b]

Ha ha... 😆

QFT ! 🙄

GW - Member

if you ride the peaks you dont really need to go anywhere else as nothing is better in the uk

Ha ha...

QFT !

😆 , its true sir, but to keep you happy i'll agree with you agian 😆

^^

who's angry? the tagger? Coz I'm certainly not. (I clearly do have an opinion tho)

[i](i beat SM on the lumens count anyway... everyone bow down to meeeeeee!!!)
[/i]

You'll be using more than one light then ?
😉

I have a DX "mickey mouse" light and the "ear" provide awesome flood lighting. Never have any probs in corners etc. I used to run with a tescos torch which id taken the focusing lens out of, and that too was a really good flood (not that powerful though)

I'm with GW. A single 'bright enough for good reach, floody enough for some peripheral vision' light on your bonce is, for me, perfect.

I don't even get why people faff around with both. One decent light on your head, job done.

I don't seem to need shadows, maybe I just have good depth perception.

Plus, I [b]REALLY[/b] hate the 'searchlight' effect behind you on climbs on 24hr events, as numpties with bar lights sweep them left to right.

On open trails the bar mount is fine. I used to use a 500+ bar light and a 200 lumen tight spot helmet light. All of my riding at night was on relatively open trails.

going to Glentress and riding there I found that this set up was not enough as too often the bar light was missing the trail. going off jumps it did not illuminant the landing and twisting thru the trees it missed the trail

I now use a bright light on both. I win the lumen wars!

TJ - I take it you mean the Pentlands? think I'd leave the light off most of the time if I rode there 😛
it's not just the open nature of the trails there, The Pentlands is mainly dull straight single/doubletrack/sheeptrack type trails and other than the little woodsy trails nr /bonaly there are hardly any tight (or even successive) corners.

Yup - pentlands and other similar open trails. Done a few bits in other places but the bright bar / less bright tight spot helmet was fine till I hit Zoom or bust when suddenly the bar light did nothing of any use despite being as bright as an HID

I was suprised.

I've only got a bar mounted light. A few moments of blindness doesn't really bother me at the moment. Ask me again after I hit a tree or something.

TJ - You still got those plans on building a cheapy helmet light?

GW - Member

As others have said though, helmet mount alone definitely reduced my ability to gauge obstacles/roots/drops etc. I guess it's down to the generation of shadows and the way this is altered with a helmet light.

I already explained how to guage obsticles in my original post, try it?

you did explain, but no-one has the slightest idea what you're on about.

sorry for being a bit thick.

I think he opens his eyes and looks at them. The light coming from his lamp unit helps. Neither of us need a huge shadow behind everything to see it.

Yodagoat - I can give you a recipe if you want. email me off form.

FAO "the thick" 😉

I have heard people complain about not being able to judge depth very well with a single headmounted light but I find the exact opposite, at this time of year the trails round my way are covered in damp leaves with hidden soft spots, holes and ruts underneath and [b]with a helmet mount to get the depth back all I need to do is [u]move my head[/u] slightly[/b] and this has become second nature for me over the years, so much so that I found myself moving my head in frustration when just using the bar mounted light trying to get some idea of the terrain ahead.

oh, sorry.

i thought you were explaining how helmet-lights were inherently better for judging surface detail because of the way that, leaves, and, er shadows, and... um.

i've got rubbish eyesight - even worse in the dark. it's both or not bother for me.

tried only using the bar-light last night - that didn't go well...

fair enough, can't you wear contacts?

I'm practically blind too.

Oh and while Im here, tilt/dim those lights when f
ace to face on the trail. Again last night I had to stop, full beam and looking straight at me. Why do they think I tilt mine down to vertical.
Can never understand why people with such slow reactions need bright lights!

so you ride along waggling your head in a weeble stylee to get depth perception.

that'll catch on.

You ever tried just a helmet light in fog/snow/dust? Its like driving with full-beams. It just doesn't work.
You need both really.

(The dust was at the Sleepless in the Saddle several years ago when it was really hot and dry for most of the 24 hours)

And people who use helmet lights, who then stop at the end of the trail to look back for you, they need shooting. Trail etiquette people! I can't see if you're looking at me!

so you ride along waggling your head in a weeble stylee to get depth perception.

Er no, I have depth perception, regardless of where the light is positioned. You can tilt your head a bit if you can't quite make something out. It is vanishingly rarely necessary.

You ever tried just a helmet light in fog/snow/dust? Its like driving with full-beams. It just doesn't work.
You need both really.

In 8 years of nightriding, I've experianced this once. I took the light off and positioned it on the bars. Snow was so heavy I still couldn't see. I rode on regardless, giggling a little and weaving a lot.

And people who use helmet lights, who then stop at the end of the trail to look back for you

I ****in love doing that 8)

Later on I shall be turret mounting lights to the roof of both cars and synching it with my head so when I turn, the turret turns too.

We do proper night riding on all sorts of terrain every Wednesday. One has Ayups (lid and bar mounted), one has lid only (old but powerful Lupine), two of us have bar only 601s. Us 601 users easily have the best field of vision in all situation. As mentioned I bring a Fenix TK11 (285 lumens) and Lockblock for the lid just in case but have never needed it yet. I did ride with it on and it made almost no difference. I also think helmet mounting a torch/light weakens your lid in a crash and leaves something else for branches to whack. Also much easier to adjust a bar mounted light (e.g. dipping it for oncoming traffic) on the move, especially with a bar mounted remote switch.

In 8 years of nightriding, I've experianced this once

Jeez. [i]More?[/i] Will I ever be allowed to sleep, or eat? Will you do my job for me while I'm getting extra riding in? That'd be great, cheers.

so you ride along waggling your head in a weeble stylee to get depth perception

You ever tried just a helmet light in fog/snow/dust? Its like driving with full-beams. It just doesn't work

Later on I shall be turret mounting lights to the roof of both cars and synching it with my head so when I turn, the turret turns too.

We do proper night riding on all sorts of terrain every Wednesday. One has Ayups (lid and bar mounted), one has lid only (old but powerful Lupine), two of us have bar only 601s. Us 601 users easily have the best field of vision in all situation.

also think helmet mounting a torch/light weakens your lid in a crash and leaves something else for branches to whack

Also much easier to adjust a bar mounted light (e.g. dipping it for oncoming traffic) on the move, especially with a bar mounted remote switch.

I like my bar light and dont think it is rubbish
works for me 😆

I like your light too.. but it'd be better on my head and it's way too much light for my needs anyway

I was out last night for a pedal with only a bar mounted magicshine. I was way slower than my usual slow pace, but i still had loads of fun. I didn't really mind the occasional blind spots but i recon a wee torch mounted on my lid would make a difference.