[Closed] Bangernomics questions

Buy on condition and the owner - not fixed on a specific model or spec.
Bangernomics = money you could walk away from if it dies next month. Typically less than £1k

What do you need it for?

I went down the bangernomics (ish, it wasn't quite under a grand, but it was a nice big family car in v good nick for its age) route a couple of years ago, and it died just before Christmas of a snapped cam-belt/water pump/valves.

Luckily it happened quite close to home, but it got me thinking that it could have happened at any point in the previous 2 years, with wife and kids in the car, and potentially a long way from home.

Decide if this is what you'd be cool with. Potentially stuck (or at least waiting for Mr RAC to turn up) a long way from home, dog/kids in there too, and faced with no transport when you get home. Sounds negative, but it's the risk you take.

So I had a good look around and found a 7 yet old Mitsubishi Lancer 1.9 diesel (so very reliable if boring), 70,000 miles, 1 owner from new, FSH, and still on extended warranty. Paid £2,600 (proper bargain IMO) and I'm a lot more confident that I won't get stuck somewhere. YMMV!

Grand max and untrendy brands.

Most vag bmws etc at that level are run by people who can't afford them so don't get maintained.

I bought a saab it's been ace put a starter on it in 2yrs. If it died tomorrow I'd be upset it's been brilliant

If you can find anything old and Japanese (not an import)
And probably petrol and manual of any brand has less chance to go wrong and cheaper to fix if does
And older but with lower milage.

Mk.3 Mondeo estate is the answer. Bought one three years ago with 90k on the clock. Put 35k in 18mths on it. Never missed a beat. Wrote it off on some black ice. Bought another one in May 2016. Had 120k on it. Now 200 miles shy of 170k, not missed a beat, starts first time every time and sailed through last MOT with no advisories. Both were 1.8l petrol. I'm going to have to replace it as with three kids and a dog I need an MPV. Replacement will be a 2009 or 2010 Galaxy.

Go Japanese - Mazda 6 estate is where I ended up. Fully loaded with electric windows, seat heaters and aircon, electric seats etcetc. Was over a grand but was also only 5 years old, 78k miles and reliable as hell. Mate has done better though - Yaris bought as a clunker 8 years ago for £80, still going despite abuse and no servicing!

Luckily it happened quite close to home, but it got me thinking that it could have happened at any point in the previous 2 years, with wife and kids in the car, and potentially a long way from home.

This could of course happen to any car new or old...

Japanese is also a good call. Mazda 6 is a great car!

Mk.3 Mondeo estate is the answer.

We've run two MK3 mondeos in our house and there is another in the immediate family. Two 1.8l petrols and one 2l tdci.

All have been outstanding cars to live with. One we had from 4 years old and sold over 8 years later. The other two were bought old and high mileage. One was moved on last year as it had done it's job and the other is still going strong.

Whoever said buy based on the owner and condition is spot on I reckon.

Bangernomics as stated up there is all about cheap, older cars. Probably 10 years or so, and under £1000. It’s actually quite hard to buy well in that market unless you know a lot about cars from a taking them apart and putting back together point of view or you have someone you trust implicitly who does that’s prepared to look at cars with you. Anyone can be lucky of course, but obviously most sellers don’t want to highlight bad points, and most bargain winners don’t like admitting they fluked it.

There’s an entire secondhand market between 3yr old and 10 yr old that has nothing to do with bangers and everything to do with value for money and you should be able to buy sensibly in that range with a reasonable expectation of reliability. Prestige marques and models will eat your money as always.

ajantom I think bangernomics does not mean you do not maintain the car (you could have got another 2 years from the car for the sake of a timing belt) You can/should still maintain a car whether its cheap or not. To the OP buy on condition and owner/ gut instinct rather than anything else cheap decent well looked after car from a decent house.

All about condition and seller.
No history with the current car, but was a garage owners runabout, no resale value to him as an ex ambulance car, petrol turbo, 4x4. Everything about it and his place was meticulously tidy. All fluids, filters, belts and pumps changed as well as polybushing the whole front end and no crap tyres.
Gone past 200k last month, still just consumable stuff.

Buy on condition and stuff that is considered unpopular or not super economical will always be cheaper. Parts costs I find much of a muchness on older cars. Something with parts common across models helps with part costs and breaker availability.

Budget is whatever you're happy to leave upsidedown in a hedge and get a taxi home.

ajantom I think bangernomics does not mean you do not maintain the car

It was maintained 🙂 serviced by my trusted local mechanic.

I bought it at 95k with receipts showing the belt and other bits had been done at 80k. I'd done 25k in the 2 years I owned it (so it was on approx 120k) and was planning on getting it done at 130k. On this particular car the recommended interval was 80k, so I'd have been well inside that. Just pure dumb luck it went I guess!

I suppose my point was that with older cars you have to take the risk that they are probably more likely to break down. Especially ones bought cheaply, as they may not have been well kept.

As a younger man with less responsibilities this was a risk I took, but with kids, etc. I'll pay a bit more and (hopefully) have something more reliable. Though of course all cars could die at any time. Though Japanese ones tend to have a reputation for reliability.

Buying new or newer doesn't stop them breaking.

Just means you have to fix them....

Exactly Duncan.

Just been through this with the wife.

But I did promise her a newer car if certain things came up

And you start looking slightly newer and slightly newer ... You get past about 8years and the price drops significantly . Newer than that the price seems to rise exponentially each year newer.

Hence we ended up with a near brand new car as it represented better value over life than say a 5year old car as the price difference wasn't much.

Got a bangernomics berlingo up to flog shortly but needs a windscreen. And it's in Aberdeen

not super economical will always be cheaper. Parts costs I find much of a muchness on older cars

trail_rat -
Got a bangernomics berlingo up to flog shortly but needs a windscreen. And it's in Aberdeen"

Didn't buy that off me did you? 😆 I ran a 53' plate diesel Berlingo for a few years.not pretty, but took the abuse I gave it and kept on going 😀

Think I'm due another "bangernomics" car soon, I miss them.... 🙂

 

Haha no I bought it from the first owner (a friend) in fort William

It's a 54 we have done 40k in it and all its needed bar consumables is a rear axle as the spring snapped (299 on exchange and a Saturday morning to swap over)

Been a pukka motor but the wife's using it for work more and more and we don't want her transporting the work kids in it so bought something safer (curtain airbags and 5 * 3 point harness and such like)

Still running a 2003 Rover 75 that was given to us for free at 104K. 2.0 cdt, Electric everything, average about 45mpg. Had it for 3 years, and now on 140k. I have absolute confidence in the engine, it's the other bits that stared to go wrong... In past 3 years it's had, 3 snapped springs, 2 new shocks and a clutch. The clutch especially was worth more than the car (almost) however the cars actual value to us was quite high, so we decided to do the work.That was 2 years ago.

Recently bought a 2012 XC70 and whilst that is of course a newer car, and should be reliable, i'm under no illusion that at some point it will chuck a few big bills at us.

So, get in summary. Get a Rover 75 Tourer. They're dirt cheap.

Whatever you get, get the cambelt (if it has one) done as soon as you can. We risked it on a Mondingo a few years ago and it just went one morning at the end of our street and borked the engine. £££ please...

Our Doblo had about 140,000 on it when we got it and it was as reliable as tomorrow until we sold it last year at the thick end of 180,000. To me, bangernomics means not forking out £xxx per month for a car/van/whatever and being able to afford to get someone else to service it often and fix stuff when it needs doing. We've got a Ducato now which cost more than I've ever paid for anything, ever, in one go (£1800) and it's fine. Got the cambelt done as soon as we could get it booked in at our local indie (and didn't use it in the meantime!) and get the oil and filter changed regularly because it's our only motorised transport and it has to work when we want it to. People make the mistake of running a 'cheap' car into the ground when it can last ages if you (or pay someone to) look after it properly!

I was thinking this morning....

In 2009 I bought a 2003 Focus 1.6 Zetec with less than 50,000 miles on the clock, basically immaculate, for £3100. I put 100,000 miles on it over 5 years, only had radiator, rear wiper motor and front calipers (seized due to doing navigational scatter rallies in it) in that time other than standard servicing (myself, every 10,000 miles). Sold it in 2014 for £600. It did nearly 40mpg consistently and wasn't too bad to tax, cheap to insure, could fit a 29er with only the front wheel out. That was cheap motoring.

You're looking at something like £5500 - £6000 to start with for a focus of a similar age and mileage now. And, it'll either have a turbo to go pop on an ecoboost engine, or a DPF that'll cost you £1000 every 70,000 miles on the tdci. Great.

Yes it does depress me to see people not doing basic maintainance on their motors just because they were cheap. A full service is 50 quid in parts for most 10 year old cars.

I did the belt on the berlingo my self and it cost 90 quid Inc pump and tensioners My last one I paid to have it done it was 300 quid on the previous Peugeot partner.

I can understand it if the cars on its last legs already but most people's bangernomics vehicles just seem to die through abuse rather than failures as such.

I'm running a 2009 Caddy van now, it was on 125,000 miles when I got it, but had a clutch, flywheel and belt just the other side of 100,000.

Oil, oil filter, air filter, pollen filter, fuel filter, CV boot kit all less than £70 and took me an hour to service. Just do it every 10k miles.

2009 Caddy van now, it was on 125,000 miles

I don't think that qualifies as bangernomics....although I am having to revise my expectations of the cost of 'cheap' cars these days.

I wonder when the PCP scandal will pop, and how that will impact cost of second hand vehicles too.

£3000 doesn't buy you very much, at all.

What he said.

Those at the bottom are keeping their cars longer I think.

I'm not seeing nearly as many quality cars to buy at the bottom.

Plenty to choose from mind Everything I looked at was utter dross I wouldn't trust to cross town let alone run as a vehicle.

£3000 doesn't buy you very much, at all.

I know. My dump of a Galaxy '06 / 157k / scratched and missing trim is worth nearly that, and I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole... 😆

it's worth keep getting them serviced on time at a small local garage.

I think the key to bangernomics is being able to fix stuff yourself. Most info and help is online and it isn't hard to do.

Otherwise you will be paying bills or replacing cars quite a lot. And the worst of that is you get all that cost while driving a shitter.

So, get in summary. Get a Rover 75 Tourer. They're dirt cheap.

I had a diesel auto. It was bloody brilliant. I loved that car. Made me laugh at the sheer stupidity of it all everytime I got in it!
Rotted away to nothing though 🙁

I think the key to bangernomics is being able to fix stuff yourself. Most info and help is online and it isn't hard to do.

OH does little jobs on ours but for anything that involves going underneath or tools we haven't got it it's off to the local indie- they get paying work and we get a serviced/working van back later that day. I'd rather pay someone £40 a go for an oil and filter change a couple of times a year than have to buy the bits and get rid of the old stuff- life's too short to be buggering about with stuff that you don't need to bugger about with! It was in last Monday for a ball joint, couple of front tyres and rear brakes, £200 all in. Meh, just do it and give me a ring when it's ready to collect please 😆 That's it sorted for however many months now though and if/when it needs something then it'll get done because we won't have been forking out £xxx per month for something newer and more complicated!

Second vehicle and daily driver to our Ducato motorhome is a 12 year old Honda Jazz. It is a tardis that can fit loads in it.

43k miles and cost me £560. Oil change last week cost £22. Centre and back box exhaust cost £38. New rear pads £11. Most expensive thing was a new battery at £40, but if the Mrs didn't keep leaving the internal light on overnight it wouldn't be needed...

It runs like a dream.

I am in the other end of this discussion. I have a Meriva with 100,000 miles on the clock. It is a sh*te car really but it is great for biking as the rear seats go completely flat to get bikes in easily. It also means there is a constant flow of relatives borrowing it to move fridges/washing machines etc, The diesel motor is reliable and economical and nothing else apart from wear and tear has gone wrong.
However like a lot of Merivas there is wear in the steering rack which, if it is enough to fail the next test could cost at least £500 to sort, twice as much if the EPS has gone as well.
So is it worth spending that to keep a reliable car going even though I would be lucky to get £600-700 for it?

Fog - Probably yes. What you going to do? Flog it/scrap it and buy another banger for £600? Which may or may not have similar issues?

£3000 doesn't buy you very much, at all.

I've had bangers for 25 years, our current workhorse (06 Touran, bought with 90k on the clock) cost a smidgeon over £3k and is the most expensive car i've ever bought. 1.5 years in, so far so good, including 2 fully loaded family camping trips to the south of france and back. Comfortable, safe, cruise control set to motorway speed limit, economical, dirty-diesel.

A few random observations:-
- Most bangers, expect up to £1k/year in maintenance - clutches, broken coil springs, random electrical gremlins, hoses, cv boots. Though you might be lucky.
- Electrical stuff (airbag sensors etc) can be tricky/uneconomical to fix, and may be the eventual reason a car has to be scrapped
- Really old vehicles can rack up labour expenses for seemingly simple jobs - it once cost me half a days labour at the local garage to replace a £5 bushing, due to a seized bolt!

dont be afraid of a car that needs a little work if it's cheap enough.

When looking at mk1 TTs (the wifes choice) condition varied wildly, as did prices - the two not always matched.

We bought a very cheap one that needed some mechanical work, a cambelt plus oil changes. Spent almsot £2k at my independent VAG man. Still ended up cheaper than the sale price of nearly any other car we'd looked at (and they all needed something).

Don't buy a mk1 TT for bangernomics though. too comlicated to fix & too many problems.

e39 BMW tourer has been bulletproof so far. uses a lot of fuel but otherwise cheap to run.

Honda CR-V would be my outside choice - I fancy one and never had a honda - I don't know enouigh about them to commit though...

core - Member

£3000 doesn't buy you very much, at all.

Half that bought me an S Type Jag.
The other half bought me a 740 BMW.

How much do you want? 😆

with in the last year ?

historically i could regale with what ive bought for me and friends for almost nothing but doesnt mean much if right now many pounds doesnt buy much unless your buying waaay left field like a 7 series bimmer....which i wouldnt thank anyone for.

with many dealers doing thinly veiled discounts by calling it a scrappage scheme for up to three grand on some models , its driven up the price of the once prized 10 year old car that had been someones pride and joy and they were selling for buttons because they were getting an even crapper trade in .....

Now what im seeing(having been looking for the last 3 months) is pretty much un-maintained junk thats not been looked after. Which if your not fussy is great but i judge the history and the owner as much as the car before me. Has worked pretty good for preventing lemons.

My latest bangernomics purchase wasn't entirely planned - had a minor bump in the snow the other week and needed a new front bumper only (even the foglight survived).

Being a 2006 Renault Scenic, a new bumper at insurance bodyshop prices rendered it uneconomical to repair and so it's been written off.

Enquired as to whether they'd sell the car back to me.

£20!

Now, I'd filled the tank the day before so it had c.£60 of petrol in it. So if I just run it till it's empty and then torch it, I'm still £40 up!

As it is, I can get a good condition matching bumper (so no paint needed) locally for £50. That said, it is fine with the corner of the bumper held together with gaffer tape, so if it will go through an MOT, I might just leave it as it is.

My gf has got the bangernomics strategy down to a fine art.
She bought a £2k Ford Focus approx 10 years ago. Said car is now 16 years old and on 165k miles.
Only gets stuff fixed to pass an mot.Hasn’t even had an oil change for 3 years. Had a patch welded on the sill about 2 years ago. Apart from that it just gets consumables. Went straight through it’s last not with just 3 advisories.
Headed for the scrappy this year if it fails it’s mot and we will buy another focus.
Mk1 foci are reasonably reliable , great to drive ,can be serviced anywhere and more importantly cheap to get bits for.

Being a 2006 Renault Scenic, a new bumper at insurance bodyshop prices rendered it uneconomical to repair and so it's been written off.

Enquired as to whether they'd sell the car back to me.

£20!

Amazing. You should do the other bumper as well!

I had a 2004 Civic Type-S from 18 months old until it proved uneconomical to pass the MOT (after a lot of abuse) in 2013. I test drove a load of newer cars and was so unimpressed I bought a very good condition lower mileage and slightly younger ‘04 Civic and we’ve had it since then. It’s had an alloy refurbed, and the headlights replaced due to the lenses becoming rather opaque but I think that’s it (other than annual servicing and tyres).

It can’t go on for ever but I really like it. Climate control, cruise control, good seats, handles pretty well, fairly quick, not too uneconomical and acres of internal space for a fairly small car. Got a roof box last year so it can handle family holidays without being packed to the headlining. I even like how it looks but that might just be a case of Stockholm Syndrome! 😉 Like this but in dark blue and mud:

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My latest bangernimics is a touran.

A car famed through the land for its reliability and cheapness of repair bills. 😀

Trailrats berlingo is tempting...

We have a 13 year old Astra G Estate, Cost £300 with a fresh cam belt and water pump. It had under 80k on it but had a cabin water leak.

Traced the leak to the roof panel joins and dried it out.
Parts are peanuts. I put all new brakes, shocks and exhaust for prob another £400. It’s a 1.6 8v engine that looks like the one in the mk1 Astra, not powerful but stupidly easy to work on. We’ve been to the French Alps twice in it and the GF commuted from Reading to Oxford in it until the traffic got to her.
It’s great, everything still works, even the air con.

All these car threads have got me perusing what's about in local area, found myself looking at a Dinky 2 seater Smart fortwo Auto that I know my missus would get on with and that I wouldn't feel so bad cranking up the mileage with local short journeys, saving the big evil diesel for longer family trips and bike haulage... Terrible purchase?

My Mondeo 2.2 (unneccesary upgrade) set me back £2100, it was denty but solid. Now it's had some bills but I've also put 40000 miles on it and parked it in a loch, so, that seems fair. Just got a very clean MOT on it and sorely tempted to shift it on but just really finding it hard to beat- for big efficient estates the Mondeo's still a star, lower mileage ones are getting quite expensive though...

So in finest STW style I'm recommending what I have, even though the entire point was to replace it. Itchy feet aside if I needed a car tomorrow it'd be my first point of call again.

Bangernomics always revolves a lot around the level of reliability you need, and how much you can fix yourself, though. I might have scrapped or sold mine on rather than replace the turbo, if I'd had to pay someone to do it.

The experiences family and family friends have had of old Audis has me wondering if a late 90's early noughties Audi might be worth a look?

I had a petrol mondeo bought for 1200 used for 2 years did 30k sold for 1400 when I bought another motorbike, it was mint too

Got the Mrs a diahatsu charade for 500 ran for 4 years and 35k failed not worth me fixing sold for 280, I see it locally still running now

Then got her a hyundai getz or something for 350 still using it now after a few years

I've got a berlingo I paid about 1400 for been to Belgium and France and all over UK camping fold a seat down wheel a full bike in I love it

trail_rat - Member

within the last year?

Hell no; the cars I've bought last much longer than that. 🙂

waaay left field like a 7 series bimmer

Nothing says leftfield like a four door saloon. 😕

which i wouldnt thank anyone for

Ah, you haven't driven one. International engine of the year, don't you know? 😉

i judge the history and the owner as much as the car before me. Has worked pretty good for preventing lemons

😆
The confirmation bias is almost as strong as the likelihood of you driving a dull as ditchwater FWD Euro-shitbox.

Which if your not fussy

Oh, I've been known to have an eye for detail... 😉

OP: small simple and Japanese.

So yes you have no experience in the current market.

Thanks for confirming.

That's all you needed to say. Didn't need 2 passive aggressive posts for that.

OP, Japanese company stuff - Someone mentionned Honda CR-V above, great cars with loads of space but a bit thirsty, I had a 52 reg one a while back paid £1200 ran for thousands of miles and sold for a tad more when it went, nothing went wrong.
Latest one used for a local runabout and by kids when they come home is a 96 Toyota Corolla, cost £200 off an old lady nearby who was giving up driving. Covered in dents and now with a growing interesting paint job but again drives great, really smooth and everything still works. It came with service history and a years MOT which is coming up again next month, hope it passes...
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I paid £640 for a 2003 Volvo XC70 2.4 D5 diesel auto with 230odd k on it. Now just below a 1/4 million and a joy to drive

Drive something you like, get it cheap and treat it well

Nice corolla 🙂

I've used the bangernomics principle for some time now.
Mostly its been fine, done some clutches and a cambelt on various cars. But the latest vehicle is pushing its luck. Despite my reservations we got an 11 yo Renault Scenic 1.5 diesel for £750.
I've had to do more to that car than the rest put together. Mostly its electrical wierdness, mechanically its ok, although it uses more oil than I'd like. Very practical, but its put me right off Renaults. You really shouldn't have wiring connectors melting on a modern car. (its a common thing on these too apparently!)

Its the electronics that undermine bangernomics. My local garage which is basically a guy I have known for ages, tells me that he scraps loads of mechanically sound over 10year old cars because some electronic gizmo in the engine management system has quit and you have to replace the whole system for gazillions of pounds more than the value of the car. Some he reckons can be fixed with proprietary electronics but most are limited to that manufacturers own part.

Indeed, the electronic handbrake went on ours, looked at a manual conversion, but went for a new one at £500 in the end. It was touch and go whether I kept it.
You can't even reuse a working one from another car because it has to be coded to the ECU and you can't recode them! FFS.