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Doing 2x Wattbike / indoor sessions a week + weekend ride.
Anyone else doing similar and managing to squeeze in lifts to help with overall fitness, or doing blocks of each?
Would be great to get opinions on what has worked for you… Trying to prep for summer Enduro.
I ride three/four times a week - never indoors. And i go to my shed/gym on the off days with great intentions of dead lift, pull-ups, squats, bench presses ...
... which invariably end up being bike maintenance sessions with a few bench presses.
My main barrier to progression is finding time.
My balance has kind of tipped the other way - barely go out on my bike now other than to cycle to the gym!
However, when I had the balance better I found that things like squats, deadlifts, rows, leg presses, sit ups, twists, pull ups, shoulder and overhead presses made going downhill on a bike a lot better as I wasn't getting fatigued and having to stop for breaks on longer trails.
Should be pretty easy to squeeze in a couple of lift days with that level of volume. Might hurt for a few weeks mind!
Yeah, I'm having a similar issue. I think unless you are someone who has no other commitments, 2 weights sessions plus 3 rides a week is very difficult if not impossible. I am trying to do 4 sessions of exercise a week. What form they come in is variable but I'm of the opinion that if you can do things that maximise each session, you can get away without some of the longer miles that won't have added as much to fitness. TBH I would rather just go out and ride my bike but it's a real problem even getting out for a long ride at weekends with weather plus commitments some of the time. I think for my mental health actually getting an outdoors ride once a week is something I need to strive for as my turbo sessions are great for fitness but don't have the same calming, stress-forgetting effect. Although the Tweed Valley is closed for business after Arwen and goodness knows how long it will be before proper rides are available again...
I lift 1-2 times a week depending on the weather, and ride 2-3 times a week. My main challenge is my legs are fatigued for 24 hours after gym so it’s balancing it to not be before a ride day, or make sure there is 48 hours before a long ride. This is the biggest challenge to fitting it in. However I’ve seen a massive improvement on the bike as a result so I ensure I fit it in at least once a week.
When I was in a lifting phase (done none since covid) I found heavy lifting depleted my body like nothing else. I was following a stronglifts program, and the ramping up of weight was very hard, especially when trying to fit in endurance training too. These programs are designed for lifting and nothing else alongside.
Definitely add some weights, the benefits are worth it. Just take time to dial in the technique, ramp up slowly and back off if you feel tired.
I aim to do 3-4 cycling sessions a week and a run too. I don't go to the gym but try and fit in a conditioning/bodyweight or dumbell/kettlebell workout in too, which I can do at home, and even that is a struggle.
I figure that once a week is better than never-a-week but I know that ideally I'd be doing 3 sessions- upper body, lower body and maybe an all-over workout but zero chance of that happening if I'm also cycling and running.
Often it ends up being diluted to 45mins of planks, press-ups, KB squats etc after a run. It probably doesn't help that whilst I get some enjoyment out of cycling and running, strength and conditioning is purely a functional thing that I would never do for fun- its purely to try and allow me to keep exercising past 40 years old!
I normally do 4-5 weight training sessions a week, these are always in the morning before work. In the summer months I usually try to do 2-3 mtb rides a week, 1 at the weekend and a couple quick hours out after work in the evenings. In the winter, I do an mtb ride at the weekend and then 1-2 evening road/gravel loops from my front door.
The weight training does limit my riding a couple of days after, if I have leg day with heavy squats or do any kind of heavy deadlifts then I still feel them 2-3 days after working out. This is fine however because I usually ride alone so it's no problem if I go slower. Overall the benefits to my riding have been very significant and I also get injured less when I crash than friends who don't weight train as much.
I will caveat all of this with the fact that I'm under 30 and live with my girlfriend with no kids, so any time I get outside of house jobs/work/relationship is my time.
Two or three outdoor rides here, plus one or two gym sessions - and usually a run or two.
Don't be afraid to dial back the riding and do more gym in the winter, especially if you already have a solid base fitness. The benefits will be very noticeable for enduro if you're not doing any weight training now.
I usually ride 3x per week at the moment, coupled with two weights sessions in the gym and a PT session which is geared towards whatever is on the horizon (such as a MTB race or event) - the intensity is based on how far away the event is, although I am getting better at understanding when I am fatigued and not "overdoing" it.
I have to add that although I consider cycling to be my main sport - I train pretty generally and mix things up to keep it interesting. I also clamber out of bed pretty early to make the time that I otherwise wouldn't find once the day gets going and work/family commitments/guilt that I should be doing other stuff gets in the way.
Give or take the odd tweak for weather or other committments my week looks like:
Mon - Weights
Tues - Outdoor ride (2 hours)
Weds - Turbo at lunch (1 hour max of Z2) then weights again on the evening
Thurs - Turbo, intervals for an hour or so
Fri - Day Off
Sat - Outdoor long ride (3 to 4 hours)
Sun - Shorter outdoor ride (1.5)
Weights are only about half an hour so easy enough to fit in, should probably do more but tbh I don't really enjoy them.
I also clamber out of bed pretty early to make the time that I otherwise wouldn’t find once the day gets going and work/family commitments/guilt that I should be doing other stuff gets in the way.
I think this is the key to fitting more in. If you can make time first thing in the morning then other things get in the way far less frequently than if you try to schedule time later in the day.
If you have the time for it, it is very much doable. What a lot of people fall over on though is the nutrition side of things. You're going to need to eat a lot more for recovery and energy. I remember when I was doing progressive overload lifting 4 times a week and I have never been so hungry. If you don't eat enough you'll just feel knackered all the time.
Conscious that I'm now in my 50s are things are damaged from 20 years of heavy lifting pre kids, and now 20 years of riding post kids.
Usually ride 3 times a week, two short and one long. Need to get a routine going to fit a couple of bodyweight workouts in each week, and then look to add some form of weight or resistance. Can balance it with 2-3 yoga sessions for core and flexibility without putting too much strain on my recovery ability.
Who'd have thought it would feel harder to fit this stuff in when working from home?
Dylan Johnson on Youtube has some really helpful stuff on weightlifting (I think Shred linked one of the videos above but I can't watch it in office to check!).
I think if you replace high intensity sessions on the bike with a weights session then you can still combine the two during the week, e.g.
Monday - rest day
Tuesday - weights
Wednesday - Medium intensity bike (e.g. if you're into training then sort of sweetspot intensity which seems to be equivalent to an MTB ride if you don't push too hard).
Thursday - Easy ride (I personally can't make 'easy' rides easy enough if I venture off-road, so road bike or indoors only!)
Friday - rest day
Saturday - weights
Sunday - longer ride, no high intensity stuff.
This sort of works OK for me, although during winter family and work commitments pretty much mean the midweek rides are both just turbo or roller sessions (but with the SAD lamp on for some faux-sunshine feel good at 6am 🙄)
I would like to work running into that schedule as well but I've paid for a coach this winter and he doesn't want me to confuse things too much, I'm basically a complete beginner to running so anything above walking pace still leaves my legs in bits!
The amount of protein you have to eat for lifting to work properly is astonishing. I'm on about 200g / day. Trying to fit that along with a 200 kcal daily surplus is actually pretty difficult.
You also need good sleep! Trying to fit lifting at 5am around work, commuting and meal prep was kicking my ass this winter.
I haven't been able to keep any scheduled routine for exercise for many years. There's always something else, kids clubs, school holidays, family birthdays, etc etc.
Instead of a scheduled routine, I have a routine without schedule, comprising of road ride, weights, MTB, weights, run, weights. For example I squeezed an hours road ride in yesterday, so the next time I have some 'spare' time it'll be weights (maybe 45mins Friday night?) and after that it'll be a chilly MTB ride hopefully at the weekend so I can spend a bit more time. However it's all flexible and comes second to all the family based stuff.
I wrote a post but the forum ate it. In one paragraph, it’s easy fitting typical gym goer weights sessions around cycling but it’s very hard fitting in high weight or high volume sessions with things like squats and deadlifts - they’re just far far harder to recover from. The older you are and then more life stress you have, the worse it is. I’m liking how now doing higher rep and more isolated movements leaves a lot more energy to ride a bike. Plus I’m lighter than during my pre-Covid (deeply mediocre) powerlifting phase so I’m quicker uphill.
Have you thought about a body weight circuit? By the time you've travelled to and from the gym you could do any number of tabata, Insanity or strength circuits in your own front room. It's what I do three times a week as I find lifting weights too boring.
The amount of protein you have to eat for lifting to work properly is astonishing.
It depends what you want from it - if its overall strength and conditioning, it doesn't need to be this high. As a woman I am not looking to put muscles mass on (I have in the past when recovering from major knee surgery and then I really did up my protein intake). You can achieve better conditioning and core strength, and therefore improvements on the bike, without needing to go protein crazy. I focus on volume rather than max weight, which I think is more translatable to being outside fit.
You can achieve better conditioning and core strength, and therefore improvements on the bike, without needing to go protein crazy.
Dylan Johnson did a video on this, pretty sure he debunked a lot of the protein 'myth' as I think the study which started the whole protein-for-recovery craze didn't compare like for like calories or carbohydrate intake.
Will need to try and dig out the video again tonight and remind myself.
“You can achieve better conditioning and core strength, and therefore improvements on the bike, without needing to go protein crazy.”
Absolutely. Also it’s very cheap and easy to add protein with a shake. A lot of people could more than double their daily protein intake like that, so if you’re struggling with recovery it’s worth doing.
As others have said there are lots of variables...
1) Age
2) Training Age - from a lifting perspective this basically means how much time you have spent lifting seriously. Older isn't always better.
3) Work
4) Kids
5) Other commitments, dogs, volunteering etc etc
If you are 20 something with time, energy and testosterone to burn, you could easily do something every day or 6 days a week if you have a couple of easier days.
At age 43, with 2 kids, I can do either lift or ride 4 times a week.
I ride for fun and I don't particularly beast myself on the climbs, I'll also not bother heading out midweek if it's grim.
In the garage gym, in those 2 or 3 sessions a week, I will:
Warmup (bands or light sets)
Train 2, 3 or 4 of the Primal Movement patterns which are:
Squat, Hinge, Step/lunge, Horizontal Push, Vertical Press, Hori Pull, Vert Pull.
Then maybe 1 or 2 accessory exercises but not always.
One thing I have noticed is that I can't do the volume anymore. For example, whereas I could have done 3 squat variations in a particular work out in my 20s, now it's Safety Squat Bar Squats and that's it.
Aye, with the protein thing I'm talking about weightlifting to increase muscle mass - I've put on about 5kg of muscle this year - that's where the protein comes in.
I'm struggling to balance Cycling, Running, and Yoga.
Sometimes manage 3 rides and 3 runs a week but the main barrier for me is energy. Working full time is not for me. It gets in the way.
If you’ve got the time to fit some gym in then that’s cool - just need to think about recovery etc.
I find upper body stuff can be done the day before biking without too much impact - unless it’s an uplift day.
It’s the legs bit that needs more thought. If I do a dedicated legs session I feel mashed up for 2 days abs cycling hurts. Maybe could do a short some 2 recovery ride over the next 2 days but not an intensive vo2 turbo for example.
Rhis year I’ve changed it up and doing one bigger lifts session that hits legs but a bit of everything without too much volume.
Barbell Clean and Press. Normally 1 x 10 on a decent weight, then go heavy as you can for 2 sets as 6-8 reps.
Deadlift 3x10. I make this hard jab but not too hard due to a past lower back injury with bulges discs. I’m finding my way back in and looking to build gradually - just using about 50kgs at the moment and being very precise on form (max back in the day for 4 reps was 150kgs but I’m never going near that again).
Back squats - 3x10 - heavy as you can manage with good form.
I then try and do one other session on weights a week - either biceps / back or chest / triceps / shoulders.
I’m just looking to tone / maintain mostly - not looking to put on weight as I’ve worked quite hard to get from 82kgs down to about 75kgs.
Also riding / turbo and swimming when I haven’t got the cold / cough / lurgy I’ve been struck down with recently.
Bone health benefits from , weight training and, a good supply of healthy protein.
For age I’m in-between a premier league footballer and Greg Minaar, a little past my prime but hopefully not totally past it yet.
Really interested in just adding weighted squats / deadlift into current schedule without overloading it but still building muscle.
Prob end up being something like:
2 days lifting, 2 days studio cycling, 1 outdoor ride, 2 rest days. 4/5 weeks on, one week off.
Interested to see pros / cons from anyone else that has done same.
Protein intake won’t be a problem. I can add to shakes, eat overnight oats with almonds, almond milk and almond butter, chicken for dinner. The comments in the videos above are pretty interesting. Will basically end up on some kind of Paleo.
Anything to keep up with the younguns 😂
I've looked into this and tried a number of different programmes over the years, i try to fit in the following (often unsuccessfully) in a week
mon - swim - straight into gym then if time a very gentle high cadence turbo for 30 mins
tues - either a strava race or a track run session
wed - nothing or 30 mins high cadence spin
thurs - swim in morning - then either a longer tempo turbo effort or run session depending which i did on tues
fri - am gym - night ride gravel bike
sat - long fell run - hour on turbo
sun - 1.5 hours on bike outside if possible
doesn't always work as it should, when i tried strong lifts was just knackered all the time. following a work out that is short and simple warm up set then 3x10
Squat, bench, upright row
standing shoulder press, dead lift, lat pull down (or pull ups)
read a really interesting article that said if new to lifitng or returning after a good break spend this winter going really light and getting form correct and body used to lifting again over a month or two, add weight in small increments for a couple of months so that you get alittle stronger but can still do all your other activity, maintain that over summer so next winter your body is ready to lift heavier and make that progress with strength then. This is what i'm aiming for and enjoying going to the gym, it takes very little time at present but will hopefully be more successful over the long term
I tend to do an hour of weights (various muscle groups/disciplines) on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, with either a ride or a session on the Elliptical (a mix of steady pace and HIIT) on Tuesdays & Thursdays, and a 3-4 MTB ride at the weekend, with the other day off from any training. Pattern and disciplines vary a little according to season, weather and other commitments.
Personally I find alternating between weight and cardio each day seems to prevent a build up of fatigue.
2 rest days?!!! 🙂
I very rarely do weights as I got rid of the gym membership at the start of Covid lockdowns and havent' been back, but I think the key thing is around balance and structuring what you're trying to do and when. By that I mean if:
- you're base building with bike rides (trainer or outdoors) then you can probably balance that with heavier weights
- you're racing or trying to develop power/endurance/speed on the bike then killer weight sessions may not be compatible.
Again, this may change during the course of the year and where your focus is.
There's a British guy on YouTube called Mark Lewis who is quite amusing to watch and mixes up content around indoor cycling, outdoor runs, obstacle course racing with weights. This particular video of his talks more practically about fitting things in, but other videos talk about weights and riding etc.
Mark Lewis video
I aim to do what just what you are planning (but currently failing due to incessant colds being brought home from school.)
Things I’ve found when it is working…
Any increase in strength training does need a corresponding increase in recovery and nutrition (not just protein) which you somehow have to fit in.
You have to plan when you put your sessions in relation to cycling sessions. Upper body before riding seems OK but squats wipe out 2 days for me so I tend to put them before a rest day.
Doing fewer, longer sessions helped me fit in more - saves time on travel/set up/showering etc.
But go for it, it helps.
2 rest day joke 😂😂
But that’s the things, I found in the past that pushing hard on squats / deadlift would wipe me out for 2 days but…
Ideally I want 2 days of weights, 2 pushing on bike in studio and one outdoor ride and don’t know where to compromise. Can’t do Enduro without off-road skill, being able to pedal hard or strength…
Glad I’m not the only one struggling. Even in gym cycle trainer vs weights trainer don’t agree. I actually want to verge on the conservative rather than go in meat headed and get injured..
You do the heavy strength work further out from your event then start swapping big weights sessions for higher intensity bike sessions 6-8 weeks out from Enduro season
The impression I got from (mainly Dylan Johnson again) was that normal amateurs can't usefully balance big weight sessions AND high intensity bike sessions, something has to give.
So for the next 2-3 months when I'm working on strength and 'pre-hab' weights I'll mostly just be doing base intensity riding.
Some foods such as almonds can be high in lectins and other antinutrients.
The impression I got from (mainly Dylan Johnson again) was that normal amateurs can’t usefully balance big weight sessions AND high intensity bike sessions, something has to give.
That's just common sense, you can't max out on two sports at the same time, so something has to give.
I do weights, but lift well below all my weight lifting PRs as I simply couldn't ride 200km+ a week and do PR lifts. I just lift weights to maintain some core / upper body strength and accept that if I want to get back to PR lifts I'd have to pretty much give up cycling. NB When I did all my PR lifts I was only pootling 3 miles each way to work on a bike.
The latest extraordinarily dull TrainerRoad podcast has what they call a 'deep dive' into combining endurance cycling and strength training. I lost the will to live part way through it, but it saves you from endless google mining I guess:
Ooh I really like their podcast but I am a bit of a geek. You should try "the triathlon show" if you want real boring attention to scientific detail!
Ooh I really like their podcast but I am a bit of a geek. You should try “the triathlon show” if you want real boring attention to scientific detail!
I don't really dislike it, I quite enjoy the geeky training chat, but the 'deep dives' seem to consist mostly of Coach Chad using google and reporting back and leave me a bit cold. I enjoy the endless, obsessive agonising about stuff like whether saving 5g on a bidon will impact your performance. I think I'll give the triathlon show a miss though 🙂
Lift hard, ride hard and your body will adapt to it. You'll suffer for a period proportionate to your age + fitness but you'll get there
Strongly suggest kettlebells for much of the lifting part, and add in a daily yin yoga session to prevent seizing up too much
I lift 5 times a week at lunch all year and ride 3-4 times a week in summer, 1-2 in winter. I also train MMA 3 times a week, that is the real limiting one as it means I'm constantly trying to rest some injury while at the same time trying to gain as much strength and cardio as possible. If I back off the training for a few weeks I really feel the different sessions overlapping: for example a ride the day after leg day will hurt and a BJJ session after core work is painful but once I'm back in line I don't notice it anymore
If you want your body to be strong and resistant in any situation, just put it in as many different difficult situations as you can and let it figure it out. As long as you're doing deadlifts, squats and presses to stimulate the growth you'll adapt
“ Lift hard, ride hard and your body will adapt to it. You’ll suffer for a period proportionate to your age + fitness but you’ll get there”
This is true if “hard” is not “too hard”. Our bodies do not have infinite capacity for work.
BWD, yeah I sometimes love his theories too as if he has had a new Archimedes-style insight 🙂 He's not too good when he gets distracted or interrupted either! At least they are trying to do proper science although the evidence is often pretty scanty. Their podcast also does full out and back commute which helps.
A few years ago I was dipping my toes in XC racing, commuting 5 days a week on the mtb - mixing road and off road and urban fun. Tried to get into bodyweight strength training and my wrists, elbows, and shoulders just couldn't take it all. However since lockdown, WFH, and my commutes dropping to 3 times a week on a road bike (no MTB in working order) I'm making progress on bodyweight stuff. Using running for cardio and legs, bodyweight for upper strength, yoga for all round mobility/flexibility, and learning bicycle trials for bike skills (2-3 short sessions a week so quite slow progress there) - the commutes just about keep me ticking over at cycling I guess. It's taken circumstance mainly to get me there, but it's all reasonably well balanced. Probably not the balance looked for in this thread, and while I'm pushing myself to some degree, I'm still at beginner level in it all, and using it just for enjoyment and as a challenge to be better at something physical rather than some of my past hobbies being more for the mental challenge.
chiefgrooveguru
Free Member
“ Lift hard, ride hard and your body will adapt to it. You’ll suffer for a period proportionate to your age + fitness but you’ll get there”This is true if “hard” is not “too hard”. Our bodies do not have infinite capacity for work.
There's no such thing as 'too hard', just 'insufficient commitment' 🙂
Jokes aside though, fair point, I'll add a caveat to my initial post: Listen to your body as well, sleep loads and eat healthily and plenty, it won't work if you're also on some stupid lose a stone a week starvation diet, sleeping 6hrs a night and/or drinking 7 pints every night
Oh yeah, there is "too hard" I do every lift to failure on the second set. If you're not terrified of dropping them on the last lift then you could have done more or gone heavier.
Does anyone have a minimum effective dose strength session that they do 1 x per week when volume of riding doesn’t allow more time in the gym in the summer?
Ideally I’d like to fit in squats, dead lifts, bench press, bent over row and shoulder press 5x5 in one session but it’s going to be too much. Would alternating squats/deadlifts and only doing each one every second week be enough to maintain?
I intermittently do the MTB Fitness 12 week plan which gives me the focus to fit it all in. I have used the gym version and the home version and fair to say that both have their benefits. Currently back on the home version as I binned the gym membership.
Worth a look if you want something that actually makes a difference and keeps you on track. There is a 16 week version of you are already fit as f@ck
Linky to Plan
“ Would alternating squats/deadlifts and only doing each one every second week be enough to maintain?”
Yes, or just replacing them with trap bar deadlifts which is basically a hybrid of the two movements. What sort of % are you lifting for 5x5 of those? Seems a lot for one session, unless you’re young, short, light, well trained.
Great insights, cheers all.
So, my plan is:
Intro lifts / movement + base for next month.
Weight gain squats / trap + base for
8 weeks.
8 weight maintenance + FTP increase. Then see how I can progress / focus on outdoor off-road rides.
Am very lucky to be moving into new building for work with gym in the basement so should be able to fit lots in around lunch. Also have a Wattbike studio round the corner.
Going to pass it by the trainer in gym to make sure I don’t do anything stupid and fit in yoga while I can. Basically starting from nothing after some time off the bike seriously due to other commitments but let’s see how it goes.
Do those movements but 2 sets of each.
First set for 8-10 reps and second set 10-12 reps
Set 1 @ max weight
Set 2, take some weight off (drop squat weight by 10kg etc)
Do the biggest lifts (squats and deadlifts) first.
Should take about 35 minutes to do including warmup.
Note down weights and reps. Next workout do 1 more rep or a higher weight than last time (called progressive overload and is the key to weight lifting)
That's my style and is a good mix of increasing strength and muscle mass and time efficiency.
And when I say max weight, I mean it. If you aren't struggling to do the last rep, it wasn't heavy enough. You should feel a small to medium amount of fear when you feel the weight on the bar for your first rep
Cheers
The TrainerRoad podcast was a long / tough slog but interesting.
Basically, don’t be a pussy, your body will adapt if you are well fuelled and hydrated.
Recovery from endurance cycle workout is hours vs a day or more for lifting. Essentially you can do both cycle and lift in a day if you start with the cycle and fuel properly in-between. Many other theories discussed but as semi time crunched person I like this one. Essentially 2x workouts per day, 3 days a week should nicely. They will be discussing it in more detail next week.