[Closed] Bad Wiggle Experience with Colnago Bike Frame Cracked

Of course it's not fair! Unless you cracked the frame of course.

You're not in contact with someone called Grant are you? I've been dealing with him this week and as far as I can tell he can't read or write english.

did you pay by credit card? If so then get them onto it.

over-tighten a carbon frame by chance?

The person I am dealing with is shane, but I am getting the same level of support as you are . In fact I think it is a India call center that I am dealing with. Attached is some of my correspondence with them:

I am extremely disappointed with the service thus far. It has been much too slow. Here is a letter I drafted last night. I have not received an acceptable explanation for the defective bicycle or the why the customer service on this bike has been slow with no solutions.

I have been an avid road rider and racer for 25 years. Owned many bike brands (Trek, Santa Cruz, Litespeed, Colnago, Pinarello).

When I recieved this bike the frame was cracked and a few other issues that I resolved myself. The crack in the frame is a major issue to me and appears to be a delamination in the manufacturing process. It was not damaged in shipping. I have been exchanging emails with the sales team at wiggle. It has been extremely slow and has the feel of an offshore (India) help desk. Buying a premium brand like Colnago my expectations were much higher. I have had the bike for 13 days now and I still have a bike that is not usable. They want me to take off work and sit at home all day and wait for a courier to pick up the defective bike or take off work and bring the bike to a depot? This is not the service I expect considering the problems I have had.

Wiggle Response:

Hello Mr Ryan

Thank you for confirming you'd like to drop your bike off at the Leicester depot. I have sent details across to citylink so they can book this on their system.

We will of course issue a full refund to you upon receipt of the bike. As previously mentioned do you happen to have the name of the build mechanic on the pdi sheet so this can be passed to the workshop manager to investigate and make any necessary sanctions against the mechanic. If the crack to the frame is a manufacturing fault then we will of course be taking this up quality without this type of defect. It's something we will look at upon receipt of the bike.

Regards the response time I'm sorry you feel the service has been slow. If I might outline the reason for this, I have been working through my cases as quickly as possible but with just myself in the workshop to deal with all wiggle's bike related warranty queries, collection bookings, technical guidance, liaising with our main customer services team on bike related questions, customer bike order queries, bike cancellations (offering alternative bikes in cancellation cases) it can take a while to respond so thank you for your continued patience. Yesterday I was also slowed down as we had a 300 bike delivery to unload which took a couple hours of my time as well. At the moment I am dealing with some 80-90 cases per day so am doing my best to keep up to speed. I hope this helps explain our response time (looking out of the window, I'm definitely not in India).

I full appreciate that this has been frustrating for you and after the anticipation of a new bike it is a massive let down to have problems. I can only offer my apologies and hope you can be out on a new bike very soon and be enjoying your riding rather than worry about the problems you've experienced with us.

Regards

Shane

It was cracked upon my reciept. There was a clear fold in the carbon. Wiggle may have cracked it but I did not tighten the seatpost.

They want me to take off work and sit at home all day and wait for a courier to pick up the defective bike or take off work and bring the bike to a depot?

Are you from India?

We will of course issue a full refund to you upon receipt of the bike.

Doesn't sound like they are refusing a refund?

I am struggling to see what the complaint is here.

Can't you get the frame picked up from work?

So you want them to post you a new frame without seeingthe old one then ?

Suck up what you saved by going to wiggle over a nice local bike shop you could have dropped it off at and take a day off to send it back.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me

They aren't refusing you a refund as far as I can tell. Not really sure what your rant is about, if I am honest.

You received a frame with a defect. They are saying that once they get it back they will refund you. Where is the problem....?

I took off work and got it shipped. Here was wiggles reply when they received the bike (I rode it up and down my street maybe 1 mile in total).

Thank you for your email.I am sorry that you have had problems with your cycle and after inspection it has come to our attention that this cycle has been ridden and the seat clamp over tightened causing the damage in the carbon fibre paint. The tyres, chain, and brake rims show considerable signs of clear use. I have been informed that we are unable to offer a refund or exchange on this bike. Please see the following photos of evidence that have led us to this conclusion.
Please feel free to email me further about the next step in the warranty process.
Many thanks for your cooperation and patience in this mater.

Regards

Isaac

if you noticed the damage you shouldnt have ridden it.

Lets see the photos then ???

So did you alter the seat height before you took it up and down the road? Honest question, not making a judgement

Upon receipt it was cracked. I did adjust the seat after receipt but it was torqued to the 6 N-m using a calibrated torque wrench. No crack propagation was noted after the 6 N-m torque was applied.

I have pictures but am not sure how to post.

I did adjust the seat after receipt but it was torqued to the 6 N-m using a calibrated torque wrench.

Got the certificate to proof that too?

But why did you ride it if you'd seen the seat tube was cracked?!?!

Haha matt i was just posting the same. Perhaps you mean a wrench that was once calibrated but hasnt been done since ?

Upload photos to flickr and post links that would be easiest.

I have the certificate for the torque calibration so thats a mute point. I bet wiggles are not in cert,

Why did I ride it: I figured I would see if it fit me. Could you help yourself?

What made you think riding a cracked frame up and down the road was a good idea, did you think it would make it better?

If I recieved a cracked frame, the last thing I would do if I noticed is then mess around with the cracked area, and go for a ride on it. I would return to box and return to seller.

Edit -

Could you help yourself?

Why would you do anything with a frame that was "cracked upon receipt" other than leave it well alone and contact the company you bought it from straight away!

"Could you help yourself?" Well you haven't helped yourself in this case.

Aaaaah. That's a bit different.

So you notice the damage before you rode it? Why did you ride it?
That has to make it more problematic for any warranty claim as it's been used.....?

The thing is, isn't it up to them to prove that you over-tightened the seat post, rather than you prove that you didn't? I am not sure if this is correct or not, but I seem to remember it being mentioned in the past on here that the onus is on them to prove it was sent in a satisfactory state?

Do you have pictures of the damage before you rode it? If so, have you sent these to Wiggle?

To add pics you need to upload them to Photobucket or another photo hosting site and then stick the link to the image in between the [img]image link goes here[/img] img brackets...

Were the rims and tires also worn at delivery ?

Just to let you know, a bike shop will almost always do their best to get a refund for something like a bike. A bike that is broken is bad for the customer, which is bad for them. It's no skin of their nose so long as the manufacturer deems there is a fault because they will get their money for it. So they are perfectly happy to replace stuff that has a genuine fault.

If the manufacturer deems there is no fault, because the customer has done something, then the shop has to go with that. After all, who knows best, a punter, or the people that built it? "Considerable" signs of wear sounds like you've had it a while, and they'd not come back with that if they didn't believe it, because, like I say, replacing it isn't a problem for them if there is a genuine fault.

Wiggle may have cracked it but I did not tighten the seatpost.

I did adjust the seat after receipt but it was torqued to the 6 N-m using a calibrated torque wrench.

Which is it

@trail rat:

I agree a LBS would provide a much better level of service.

Torque calibration on my tools was done in March2012 on comp pad.

@Liftman

Frame was cracked upon receipt. So my point was that wiggle may have over torqued the joint prior to shipping, but it looks to me that the frame had a overlap in the carbon fiber so torque may be irrelevant. I did tighten using a calibrated torque wrench to the factory spec after receipt.

If it was already cracked, i can't see that using a calibrated torque wrench or the factory specs make much difference; it was broken. I do have a bit of sympathy, but you have dug your own hole.

I agree a LBS would provide a much better level of service.

An LBS is in no better position to refund than an online retailer. If the distributor covers the return than it's covered full-stop - regardless of where it was sold.

And what is an "overlap in the carbon fiber".

Pictures would be *very* useful.

Got to say it doesn't sound good for you OP. I'd also think if wiggle are saying 'significant wear' on rims and tyres thats more than up and down the road.

Not convinced you get less support from the online retailers than at your LBS - my previous warranty experience with wiggle/endura was fantastic. Waterproof jacket zip started playing up after 10months use - was expecting an offer of a repair but was sent a whole new jacket. Merlin were also brilliant and helpful with my reverb when it packed up, and then when it was returned with new stratches which had magically appeared during the service, though was blamed on me. That got sorted too at the expensive of postage.

Link to picture: as recieved

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edit.
If it was cracked when you got it out the box why on earth did you torque it up? Thats what I don't understand. A bike that has been ridden a mile does not have 'considerable' signs of use, unless it was pissing it down when you rode it that mile.

Where are the pics that they sent you documenting the amount of use?

The finish on the relief in that seattube is bloody awful!!!

Looks like somebody has been at it with a butter knife

As said, seems you've kinda dug your own hole.
On the other hand, that looks like a tiny imperfection in the lacquer. Nothing more, I wouldn't bat an eyelid about riding it. There will be nothing wrong with it other than the cosmetic

I will post the wiggle pictures of the claimed wear, for all to have a laugh. I cannot tell anything from the pictures (i.e. any wear at all).

I see a bit of peeling lacquer with a badly finished slot? (typical of Colnago QC IME)?

Echo above - why sort the other issues and ride it when there's an issue you can't sort and know you'd want to return it for.

At the end of the day, it's your word against their's. If you don't back down I think you'll get a return.

The relief looks like someone took a die grinder (dremmel tool) to try to clean out some slag. The defect is minor but is still a crack so I figured wiggle would either give me a new frame or refund. I have got neither.

The workmanship on that slot is terrible. You could actually argue that the frame was so poorly finished that it was destined to crack as it looks like there is a sharp edge there. It should be a nice round hole at the end of the slot. That would be a sales of goods act claim.

Alternatively the jagged edges could just be the paint and a high paint build up would crack like that and the carbon underneath be undamaged. But that should be for the manufacturer to investigate.

ouch.

Assessments of useage from retailers are pretty accurate in my experience. It's impossible to hide the degree of useage. And an experienced retailer can gauge it fairly accurately.

Unfortunately you may have got neither by riding it. Which sounds silly.

You can get it fixed though, it shouldn't cost more than about £50-60 and it'll be good as new.

they've offered you a refund.

How can you say you've not had a refund when you've not sent it back?

all my other comments aside, it looks to me like it was delivered without a seat post in it, and the person that removed the seat post has tightened the seat post clamp up to prevent it falling off.
in my experience it would be difficult to achieve that type of damage with either the post in place or without damaging the post as well. unless the post is undersized that is.

Think we need to see these worn drivetrain and wheels etc as well in pics. And it doesn't matter if you've tightened the seatpost collar with a certified wrench or not as if it was already cracked it would not be strong enough to deal with the force you were applying and you probably made it worse.

Here are the wiggle pictures claiming wear. The funniest one is the bottom bracket view (note the picture is of a white frame, mine was a black frame).

there was one more showing the chain but you get the point.

How does over tightening damage the seat clamp damage the frame without damaging the seat post?

That tyre looks like you did lands end to John o groats on it.

Hmmm.

So there's a pic of a small amount of dirt on the tyre, one of the wrong bike and one of the stem cap. Is that showing wear to the edge of the stem cap (below the LN of Colnago)? Or is that just a reflection?
Not sure that any of that is conclusive in showing excessive wear.

So, did you buy a complete bike?
Did it come with the seatpost in place or not? The comment above about someone overtightening the seatclamp with no seatpost in place (to stop the clamp falling out) seems like a good call to me.....
The finish on that seatclamp groove is particularly rubbish, crack & peeling lacquer aside...

tire wear. < 1 mile in leicester.

seat post: if its so sensitive that it needs to be torqued in a lab with blokes in white coats than its not a practical bike for the real world.

I bought it as a whole bike. The pictures of claimed wear are from Wiggle (which I have appealed for more evidence), which I disagree with.

The seat post was never removed from the frame.

The frame had a clear manufacturing defect in my opinion.

if you live in leicester city then i'm surprised that the tires are in such good condition. the roads are dreadful at the minute. those pictures are pretty useless. the pic of a white frame is priceless.
Anyhoo, if the post was never removed from the frame I don't see how you could damage it. Unless it is not the right post.

They ship bikes with seatposts in them?

Does seem a bit rubbish to be honest.

As above. How do you crack the seat tube and not damage the post?

I'd be really annoyed that they were sending 'evidence' of wear, but not even sending the right pics....

Have you actually spoken to someone about it, or is it just e-mail correspondence. I'd try and get on the blower to someone about it. Make a list of your concerns/questions so you don't forget to mention anything. You'll get further with a 10 min phone call that you will with a week of e-mails back & forth.

Fact is you probably shouldn't have ridden the bike, but regardless of that there is clearly some damage there.
Did you pay with credit card? If so, I'd be getting in touch with them and getting them to try & sort it....

some places do al. they come 99% built. you fit pedals and turn bars and its supposed to be ridable.

The bike came with seat post installed. The shape is very unique on the seat post so it would be hard to put the wrong one in.

i agree that you need to call them. the fact that they can even send you pics of your bike doesn't fill me with confidence in their ability. and if you payed by credit card, call them too. good luck.

I agree with calling them and sorting but.... Wiggle does not accept calls from their website!

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/h/option/contactus

You mentioned there were other issues that you sorted yourself - what were those?

Attached is the feedback I gave to wiggle. My only concern was the frame as I sorted all the other issues as I considered them minor.

Rather poor cable dressing, why not just stick in a new cable and do it properly? It costs next to nothing at trade per cable, and takes less than 5 minutes.

I agree with the cable. I was not bothered by that as I could sort that in a couple minutes.

The crack in the frame was my main issue!

at first I thought you must have done it, but seeing the pictures it's obviously poor workmanship. Fight it to the death, try to get a phone number or an email of a manager.

The pictures of wear are funny. The tyre looks fine and you can't see the rim wear (because there isn't any), the stem is, unsurprisingly, fine, and the bottom bracket isn't yours. They're in the wrong, IMO.

Is that it, the crack that is...

You lady you, whining bout something which you no doubt did not help by riding it after apparently noticing it before assembly.

Life's too short.
I suppose you Re the type to claim on house insurance for things which were in your control whom you expect everyone else to pick up the price tag for.
No sympathy here but will agree wiggle is a tad shite but seem ok.

From Earlier

An LBS is in no better position to refund than an online retailer. If the distributor covers the return than it's covered full-stop - regardless of where it was sold.

Go to shop collect bike - spot it's cracked never leave shop.
A LBS will pick up on this sort of thing as then normally assemble the bike. Wiggle is just a distribution company passing on the boxes.

Why anyone would buy from a company that doesn't even have a telephone number is beyond me no matter how cheap the product is.

Saying that though I do feel for you - you simply didn't get what you paid for. Hope it is all sorted for you soon.

To be honest doesn't really matter if you rode it or not, assuming you live in the uk. Retailers often have terms that are misaligned with the sale of goods act as they can attempt to use it to fob people off.

End of the day if it becomes faultywithin the first 6 months then its the sellers problem, and they have to prove it wasn't faulty when shipped*

*taking into account price and a few other things

Wiggle is just a distribution company passing on the boxes.

no they actually open the boxes and check the contents

They do often take pictures of the wrong frame and email the customers with them (they have done it to me)

don't they offer a month "free trial" anyway, or has that stopped ?

Ok its laughable , bike shop mechanic hat of cynicism off.

Wiggle get your act together. Sounds suspisiously like they have your bike mixed up with someone elses .

It's been hit by a car.
[img] [/img]
There's your problem.

was it established to be a crack or just a poorly finished slot?

what really surprises is me is the workload that the warranty guy at Wiggle has.

Dealing with 80-90 cases per day.

so for a 7.5 hr day that's 5 minutes per case assuming he does no other activity (which is not true from the email) - so in reality he spends probably a minute reading the email fromt he customer, a minute looking at the bike and a minute drafting a reply.

No wonder the wrong pictures get sent out.

Having said that, the OP shot himself in the foot by riding it on the road.

A LBS will pick up on this sort of thing as then normally assemble the bike. Wiggle is just a distribution company passing on the boxes.

All bikes are fully assembled, checked fully and sent out in a full size bike box.

I'm a bit confused here. The bike arrived, you inspected it, found a crack, but then fixed the issue with cables. You then went for a ride on it.

If you expected a new frame why oh why would you bother faffling with the mechs?

I think the OP was a little naive and keen to ride the new bike. I get excited about new bikes, and he'd have waited a few days for it to arrive - and then assumed that as it's cracked that it'd get sorted.

Is it a crack or delamination?

A crack in the frame is a crack in the frame - regardless of whether the bike has been ridden or not.

Surely the issue is proving or disproving the overtightening

tell the truth to wiggle,

tell them that you rode the bike for 5 minuets to see if it fitted you correctly.

"I'm yet to see the OP's crack"