Excuse the Farage-y title. We're lucky enough to have a bunch of amazing bike companies here on these fair isles and if we want them to stay around, simply put, we need to actually buy them. Cotic, Orange, Starling, Deviate, Privateer, Saracen, Atherton and loads more. Bikes in every segment, hitting most price points, on the bleeding edge of race tech to simple but durable rigs. For my money, UK designers and manufacturers are making some of the most compelling bikes anywhere in the world and you can be sure they've been tested to hold up in the shitty UK weather.
So next time you feel like opening your wallet, why not consider supporting domestic jobs and hopefully keeping these companies around for the future. It's not an easy time in the industry right now & if you want your favourite local brand to stay around they need to be selling bikes.
My dad is hilarious when shopping for British goods.... The effort he goes to when trying to buy a British microwave.....
My current bike is a Bird, I bought it partly because it's a British brand... It's worth bearing in mind that your support only goes so far when the company has their manufacture overseas....
Many of those brands manufacture frames in the UK.
I don't buy in to all the patriotic stuff normally, value is a bigger priority for me tbh
wed all be riding Calibre bossnuts if that was totally true tho
In the era of Trump and his tariffs Im actively trying to avoid any American brands, if i was buying a new bike
id probably be looking at Deviate, Ohlins, Shimano, Oneup, Hope, dtswiss , maxxis, I think that would give me a fully non USA bike
I bought an Airdrop Edit MX because it was a great bike, not because it was a UK company.
I have minimised buying stuff from US companies since the whole tarriff silliness from the orange one.
What's that strange golden glow I can see?
Oh, it must be the halo over my head because in the last few years I've owned (UK made) 4 or 5 Oranges, a Starling and (UK owned) a Boardman, a Bird and a Ragley.
Now excuse me while I go and paint some roundabouts. On my Orbea.
The Austin Allegro.
If the product is crap it is crap. I will buy what works not just because of where it comes from. If it is UK built fine, but i am certainly not going to buy something just because of a flag.
I've currently got one British, one Canadian, both made in Taiwan.
I've also got an American BMX and an American corporate e-bike. Both made in Taiwan.
Next bike might be a Geometron. Germany via Wales.
I'm not sure there's any purchasing decisions I can make that will slow the planets descent into poisonous, authoritarian hellscape.
In one way, I agree. But the other side of the coin would be encouraging people from France not to buy uk bikes (because they should only buy french brands). Etc, etc.
At the end of the day, I think if any company relies overly much on a domestic market, rather than developing an international presence (and therefore diversifying their risk) then they will always be at risk.
I make my own frames, but so far (15 years) have only used Columbus tubes as was just more convenient to buy very small quantities from the same place the flux, bb shells, head tube etc come from.
Not super cost sensitive, so maybe I'll order from both places and get Reynolds tubes next time.
Use Hope for hubs etc and Middleburn cranks - but due to durability they are also 15 years old and on the third going on fourth frame iteration 🙂. Must do Hope discs sometime as they put loads back into the local riding and racing scene.
I've owned a British bike (an Orange) but generally, I buy what's best for the money I have available. And that's very rarely British. My current bikes are a steel gravel bike and hardtail made in Germany, because the spec and finish for the price were far better than British ones, and a pair of Swiss carbon fibre full suspension bikes because they're so light and have cutting edge technology that makes a real difference to how they ride and behave that the likes of Orange and Airdrop just don't match. It'd be like running Hope brakes - why run something that's worse AND more expensive? National borders are all just imaginary lines anyway.
I do my best to support British bike brands, but I don't care that it is 100% fully fabbed on UK soil. More than happy for it to be welded in Europe or even Taiwan, especially as I'm EU resident. It's still supporting British small businesses, none of whom could take the risk to bring it all in house.
2 Cotics, 1 Fustle, and tempted by 1 more that will be either Cotic or Sour or Mason (all EU made), with mostly bits from Hope, Ergon and DT Swiss etc. leaving mainly the groupset as the longhaul import. Apparently with such selected bits that classifies as sufficiently UK/EU made to end up as 0% duty if done as a whole bike?
It'd be like running Hope brakes - why run something that's worse AND more expensive?
This opinion I presume is based on not having tried any of Hope's current range of brakes?
I curently own a Cotic RocketMax and a SolarisMax (thanks Kelvin ^^), but have previously owned a Solaris and a Cascade. Go me....I also have a Planet X road bike, and used to have a Ragley Blue Pig and an Orange 5.
I don't necessarily buy them because they are british but rather because, in the case of Cotic at least, the company seems decent, the fact the RocketMax is made in these isles was a contributing factor though.
I'd also rather buy UK or european made stuff just because the products have travelled less mile to get to me. I take the same view with wine and don't buy anything that isn't european.
Why buy someting that has travelled thousands of miles when you can get something equally as good from down the road.
I have an Airdrop, but I have been lusting after a Stanton, I have been very good this year but I don't think Santa noticed
I have a Cotic, a Laverack, a Scott, a Pinnacle and just ordered a Sonder. Not done much for British manufacturing apart from a few Hope headsets and BBs, but I've done my best.
It seems my bikes origins are split 50/50 UK/USA and probably mostly made in Taiwan, which as per a recent article on here seems to have somewhat dubious employment practices for Giant and other big bike corps - not sure how the smaller brands fare in that regard. Generally try to keep my purchases from brands and countries who exercise good employment/decent acting regime, but with China being pretty ubiquitous that's never an easy thing to do.
Excuse the Farage-y title. We're lucky enough to have a bunch of amazing bike companies here on these fair isles and if we want them to stay around, simply put, we need to actually buy them. Cotic, Orange, Starling, Deviate, Privateer, Saracen, Atherton and loads more. Bikes in every segment, hitting most price points, on the bleeding edge of race tech to simple but durable rigs. For my money, UK designers and manufacturers are making some of the most compelling bikes anywhere in the world and you can be sure they've been tested to hold up in the shitty UK weather.
So next time you feel like opening your wallet, why not consider supporting domestic jobs and hopefully keeping these companies around for the future. It's not an easy time in the industry right now & if you want your favourite local brand to stay around they need to be selling bikes.
Absolutely agree they're compelling bikes - I'm not in the UK but over the years I've bought three Cotics, a Starling, a Fairlight and (looks around in case wife is nearby) three Geometrons. Always bought British brands, but Brexit means I'm decidedly less keen, just too much hassle with customs for service/warranty/spares, have already experienced it a few times. My two most recent bikes haven't been from the UK
My last 3 full sus frames have been a Cotic, a Starling and now a Deviate. I've had a Cotic HT of some description for 14 years. And my crap weather road bike is a Sonder. Go me!
The wife also has a Cotic FS and an Orange HT, so we're doing pretty well between us.
It's not really been because they're British however, but because they're all really good companies that make bloody good bikes.
Always bought British brands, but Brexit means I'm decidedly less keen, just too much hassle with customs for service/warranty/spares,
For me one big bonus with Fustle is the fact that it's Northern Ireland based, and shipping to Germany was absolutely seamless. Just like ordering anything in EU pre-Brexshit. Click buy. Huge box arrives via DHL a few days later. Shipping time maybe 2 days longer because Belfast to Maastricht-Aachen airport is probably not a daily airfreight flight.
Owned an Orange Stage Evo with Hope kit for a 5ish years and still enjoying how capable it is.
Some friends feel obliged to reference a filing cabinet. A couple of them have actually ridden it and on giving it back smiling said, they get it. One of them subsequently bought one, with the Hope kit.
Also had/have 70s Carlton road bike, Genesis HT and Cyclocross bikes, several Oranges 4 & 5's and a Camino.
However in a YT sale a couple of years ago I could not ignore the bargain Capra 29er, great bike for enduro trips, bike parks.
So yeah, I do support and rate British, but there comes a point where ££££ becomes to much to ignore.
Sorry British bikes.....nah, I only buy Sussex bikes, most recently an Orro, and spending a lot of time looking at Masons
😜😜
Sorry British bikes.....nah, I only buy Sussex bikes, most recently an Orro,
Ooh, interesting! So, we'll support local companies even when they go out of business, their entire workforce loses their jobs and then the MD starts a new company selling the same product? Buying British even if they are toxic employers?
Joke........
Well, I bought the Orro in 2022, when all seemed good with the brand before their hubristic move to new HQ in Hailsham
I'm not a serial NBD guy, but some of the Masons look v lovely
3x British, 1 British designed (by me), 1 Kiwi and 1 French here. I like buying local when I can, especially if it's sustainable. The Starling was exactly that.
What about 2nd hand? Does that count?
Aside from anything involving general patriotism, supporting the 'village' around you or avoiding big customs and shipping fees, it's not hard to support British bike manufacturers as we have a lot of companies making really good bikes.
Currently, I have Pipedream and Stanton hardtails and a Bird FS. All great bikes. Admittedly, frames manufactured overseas, but designed and supported here and I was going for things that ride well, I can afford anyway.
Aside from other things by the brands I've already got, I often find myself window shopping bikes from Cotic, Starling, Orange, Airdrop, etc. If a large windfall ever happened, it would send me straight to Atherton. There's lots of good US and European bikes, but with such a great choice here in the UK, I'm not sure I need the extra expense and potential hassle of after sales support in a worst case scenario.
What about 2nd hand? Does that count?
I think so, as it demonstrates to the original buyer that there is a market later on for their bike.
hmmm, i think i have failed at this task, the only thing remotely British on my Raaw is a Burgtec stem 😬 .
I have:
Kona - US
Specialized (x2) - US
Production Privee - Andorra
Boardman - UK
Ragley - UK
Stanton - UK
I doubt any were made in the UK though
Next bike will possibly be a Radical Chilli Dog Ti - British, but tooled abroad now. I was thinking of a full British build - mostly Hope, but the derailleur would be the sticking point
Kona is Canadian 😉
5/7 frames designed here, 3 of those made here, festooned with lots of stuff that was designed and made here.
Currently got an Airdrop and a Sonder with a second Sonder frame ready for the building.
I am aware that these are all frames that are manufactured abroad, but the companies who design them are good UK brands that I am happy to support.
Would I like to buy everything from local brands who manufacturer in the UK? Yes. Are my pockets deep enough to occupy that moral position? No.
the derailleur would be the sticking point
Not anymore, Ratio, in the lakes, are working on one (if not released already)
Not anymore, Ratio, in the lakes, are working on one (if not released already)
Somebody has been working on rear mechs for the thirty odd years I've been using Shimano or SRAM. I've been holding my breath for so long...
If you don't mind me asking, what's your personal/professional affiliation to the UK bike industry OP? (If any).
I only ask as my instinct is to be sceptical as soon as someone starts cheerleading for pretty much anything. and this thread did seem to kick off with some unsolicited cheerleading... Especially while we're still living with COL issues and a government that seem to be warming us all up for tax increases.
As for joining in on the Patriotic, flag-shagging consumer signalling, The closest things I currently own to "British" bikes have Ragley and Planet-X written on the downtubes, I'm not sure they really count TBH. Ultimately I'm not Rich enough to own a shiny Atherton or Starling right now (or rather I don't want the Divorce that inevitably goes with spunking that much of my income on one toy) obviously YMMV...
Let's see. Currently...
1 x USA
3 x Germany
1 x Spain
1 x The Netherlands
1 x Taiwan
1 x UK {if pact counts as UK)
Choice hasn't been by "country of origin". In fact I don't think it's ever been much of a consideration for me. I've had 3 Ragleys and an Orange in the past so it's not that I have anything against UK brands. Cost/Quality counts (much) more than anything else.
Our current stable is:
2 x Nukeproof - UK
3 x Vitus - UK
1 x Sonder - UK
1 x Planet-X - UK
1 x Commencal - Andorra
My Nukeproof Mega has Hope wheels, stem, dropper lever, brakes and carbon bars - cranks are next on the list of upgrades.
If I had the money my next frame would be either Hope HB916 or Atherton S170.....
As for joining in on the Patriotic, flag-shagging consumer signalling
I don't think buying British has anything to do with 'flag shagging'. It's a pragmatic choice to support the society that we are all part of. Lots of people were keen to stand on their doorsteps clapping for the NHS during covid, but that doesn't really pay the bills does it? Whereas buying British means the money stays in our economy and therefore pays for the NHS and the public services that we all use. Even if a British co is manufacturing in Taiwan, they're still employing UK staff and paying tax in the UK.
Especially while we're still living with COL issues and a government that seem to be warming us all up for tax increases.
As for joining in on the Patriotic, flag-shagging consumer signalling,
Was that meant to be ironic?
Kona is Canadian 😉
Formed in Vancouver, Head office in Washington if we are being picky 😉
Choice hasn't been by "country of origin"
I think the only time it's had a bearing on me is Stanton - they are literally in my town. I didn't buy the bike new though
I've got a cotic and a pace, what do I win?
I don't think buying British has anything to do with 'flag shagging'. It's a pragmatic choice to support the society that we are all part of.
And who wins when the residents of every country adopt the same approach?
And who wins when the residents of every country adopt the same approach?
The people working for the companies selling the bikes assuming that the domestic market is big enough to support them. Consumers may not be able to buy new bikes as often or have multiple bikes due to their cost.
“And who wins when the residents of every country adopt the same approach? ”
Realistically that will never happen. But in a world where China has cleverly claimed a vast proportion of the manufacturing that used to happen in the West, whilst also making it very difficult for other countries to sell to their increasingly wealthy population, anything that encourages people in Europe to buy from European manufacturers is a good thing.
I’m not saying China are bad at making things - the problem is actually that in high volume production they’re arguably too good (but they didn’t get to this position by allowing a level playing field).
Lots of interesting responses here, thanks to everyone that's contributed.
I didn't make the post as an alternative to painting a mini roundabout (it's too rainy for that anyway), more as an encouragement for people to support the smaller companies we have rather than PE owned megacorps. I was also highlighting how great the products are of UK bike companies.
But on the topic of "Patriotism", I do think it's a really interesting part of the British national character that lots of us are suspicious of it. It's probably to some degree healthy, but internationally this sort of attitude isn't common at all. French people aren't cringing at buying only French food, and I don't think it's overly jingoistic to want to see the companies, and the people that work there, that inhabit the same place as me do well. I live here, my family lives here and I want here to be a good place to live and work.
Anyway thanks for the discussions, it all got way deeper than I expected when posting this on the train this morning. Have a pleasant evening!
Literally none!
for people to support the smaller companies we have rather than PE owned megacorps
Is it more important to support the companies who employ lots of people in this country or those who don't? None of the UK offices of international bike companies that I've visited are huge, but the patriotically British businesses are tiny. Not quite one man and a dog, but often not far off. I'd guess that the Merida UK office employs more people than Orange, for instance.
it all got way deeper than I expected when posting this
Welcome to the forum 😀
Far, far too little thread deviation to be a proper welcome to the forum 😀
I try to buy from UK companies but it's not always feasible - either the product isn't what I want, or cost is prohibitive (if I was a millionaire the latter wouldn't be an issue, but I'm not). It's not a bad thing to want to support business and production within the country you reside. Not related in any way to flag shagging.
FWIW current bikes are:
- UK company, Taiwan frame (Cotic, although current version of the frame is now Portugal-made)
- UK company, German frame (Geometron)
- 2 x US company, Taiwan/China frames (SC)
I've got a cotic and a pace, what do I win?
I have an Orange and a Pace both made in the UK so I suspect you are behind me in the prize queue 😀
And who wins when the residents of every country adopt the same approach?
Well Google says Guyana is the worlds most self sufficient country (in terms of food), nobody seems to be measuring different nation's self sufficiency in terms of bicycles.
The Question does sort of imply it's possible to 'Win' at capitalism, that is a premise I often find myself at odds with.
To be Clear Far-Eastern products with British stickers are still mostly Far Eastern IMHO, the key resources and skills to make them reside overseas, the design and marketing minds behind them may be in the UK, but without someone to weld the things together, paint, box and ship the things, they are really just conceptual...
I suppose my main issue with this whole topic is accepting the idea that as a UK national, I have some sort of duty to "support" (with my disposable Income) other UK nationals who choose to get involved in the manufacture of certain goods, for no other reason than we both come from the same miserable lump of rock in the North Atlantic. But what if their product is bobbins or terrible value, what if something better exists and is available but was made in Taiwan?
Is blind consumer loyalty to the UK, a key component of other people's sense of national identity?
for no other reason than we both come from the same miserable lump of rock in the North Atlantic
Perhaps the more 'patriotic' don't think the UK is a miserable place. I for one think it's fabulous - for the most.
Anyway isn't 'shop British' just an extension of 'shop local' to support the community?
Are you against that too?
Perhaps the more 'patriotic' don't think the UK is a miserable place. I for one think it's fabulous - for the most.
Same. Old career and to an extent my new one takes me to some interesting places. I have always, and still now feel very glad to be home. It ain't perfect, but it's definitely less shit than other places.
Own a Canadian bike, Atherton next. Rather staple my balls to a passing express train than own an Orange.
are all these bikes british built ? or just british owned and far east built ??
just curious.
and 2 of our 3 bikes are british. yorkshire infact, Spa Cycles.
Three Roberts and a Brompton, so all made in the UK rather than just designed here.
Few ribbles, planet X, a boardman and a Dolan bikes to add if we're being slack on British. (We have a lot of bikes). I think we have 6 or 7 American bikes so it's a tight race.
My British designed ones are 2 Deviates, think they’re made in the far east, though one was (re)painted here.
3 that are made here are Rå (North Yorkshire), BTR (Somerset) and a Dawley (Notts) on the way.
Components from Hope, KOM, Sturdy, Dward Designs, Renthal, Carbon Wasp, Burgtec & Reilly.
Vast majority bought direct, or from an LBS.
I not ashamed to out myself as a huge Orange fan but that goes back to the early 90's and the fact the orange/white frames were the coolest bikes in the coolest shops around to me and my mates. Found girls and beer mid 90's before buying a terrible GT I-Drive thing in 1999 which put me off for another 5 years. Went back to Orange in 2004, liked that hard tail so bought a 5 in 2007. Been buying their full suss bikes ever since because I like them.
Came very close to buying a Specialized Epic last year, thought they looked great and everything about them seemed to tick all my boxes. Went to the Concept Store, had a good look at the bike and for some reason it left me cold and I couldn't bring myself to spend the money. Can't see myself buying a Giant, Canyon, Cannondale, Merida, etc....
I reckon for me I just have a natural pull to the smaller brands rather than being particularly patriotic (although I do like the fact my Stage 6 Evo was built down the road) which is what stopped me buying the Epic and led to a Transition Spur instead. The Epic was quite possibly the better option, certainly the slicker product but maybe that's what turned me off? Same with full suss Orange's, I like their industrial nature. Saying that, my Pace RC627 was a lovely product but again, not a major player....
When I was looking at gravel bikes it was Nordest I kept coming back to and they fit my profile, although I didn't actually get one, so maybe for me it comes down to character more than where it's built? Who knows, but I'm happy with my choices.
In the house
5*British brand but built it Taiwan
1*. Andorran welded in Taiwan
2* German
3* American brands ones made in china, two were welded in Taiwan
1*. Andorran welded in Taiwan
1* British through and through, British brand, steel and fabrication.
I love them all!
Could I have the same bikes from the uk- nope, that's why there are from all over. Could I have them all custom build for me by a British builder, nope they were all second hand to save cash.
I had an orange it cracked, orange replaced it and I sold the replacement as it was the wrong bike for me.
My lockdown project was a 631 tubes and fork lugged road frame. Tubes and frame building done in the UK. Lugs from Longshen, dropouts from Gippiemme I think. Really nice bike, rides beautifully and I liked the fact a lot of it was domestic made. I always liked the bikes made by local frame builders decades ago and wanted something similar. Wasn’t expensive either, less than 2x an average decent carbon road fork.
Also have a Brompton, maybe as British a bike as I can think of?
Accidentally have done for years, had x4 Oranges, an On one, a Bird and currently ride a Privateer and a Ragley. Still hanker after a Cotic FS and another Halifax hinge though.
I have Planet X and a Pinnacle - do they count as British?
How about Sick Bikes? I'm not sure I'd want to support them.
I've got a British trials bike, but it's a trials bike so probably completely irrelevant so just ignore. Not sure if it's manufactured here or not, Google AI summary seems to think it is, but Google AI isn't British so I'm less than Inspired by it.
Also a hardtail from a British company. Undoubtedly manufactured elsewhere, and flown back like a Bird.
edit: Also have a number of British components (which most likely may not be manufactured here although some are I believe)... top caps, handlebars, pedals, dropper, seat clamp.
I try when I can to support British companies but yeah finances often mean I can't. Newest bike is 2017.
Perhaps the more 'patriotic' don't think the UK is a miserable place. I for one think it's fabulous - for the most.
I suppose it depends on the circles you move in and/or your experiences of being British. It’s certainly not all sunshine and unicorns for everyone. Not that I’m complaining mind, others have it worse.
Anyway isn't 'shop British' just an extension of 'shop local' to support the community?
Are you against that too?
Against it? No, but I do recoil a bit from anyone who exalts me to “shop local” when I live in a country that merrily divested itself of most “local shops” during my childhood.
My local family butcher is 6 miles away and expensive, a 12 mile round trip for bacon sort of defeats the Local thing a bit when there’s a scummy ASDA half a mile away, I’m hardly a connoisseur and we need bread and milk too…
Similarly having some middle-class evangelical tell me I should be buying British bikes rankles a bit, when that really means hurling fist fulls of my income at some artisanal hipster with a TIG set. For my Dad it would have meant buying a relatively affordable Raleigh from a local shop that hasn’t existed for 30 years.
I guess I’m just noticing that choosing to “buy British” in a Britain that started binning most of it’s manufacturing industry four decades ago seems a little tone deaf, and it’s really only a choice available to a relatively small number of people, who themselves are perhaps part of a wider problem…
As Idlejohn alluded to, the back British only goes so far in terms of actually benefiting the work force. For example, Specialized alone directly employs nearly 200 people in the uk - how does that compare to any single British brand? Then think about how those bigger brands fit into local bike shops / motor repairs places etc - they could be adding more to the economy than many of the smaller British brands put together.
I’m all for supporting local where possible - when it offers something vaguely comparable for value. For example, I live in Yorkshire but would I buy an orange? No, the warranty is rubbish and they had a reputation for cracking, never mind the looks! But, Cotic is down the road, makes good products and I believe in the support they offer - so they will be on my shortlist for my next full suss in a few years time.
So, in short, it depends - value and quality are higher up my list than just ‘local’, but if you can get all 3 than great.
Currently,
3x Oranges (2001 Patriot...is that Patriotic enough, Stage 6 and a 2005 Taiwanese P7)
2x Pashley's (The wife's Britannia....Jeepers where's me flag, and a 50yr old Tandem)
1x Jasper (Handbuilt in Rugby, it's a replica 1920's Path racer)
1x Specialised Levo (Taiwan I assume)
1x Boardman CX (Again, I'm thinking Taiwan)
1x Dawes Tandem (Pretty sure Taiwan)
So a near 50/50 split in my garage.
For the last 25-30yrs I've pretty much always owned an Orange mountain bike, simply because they're the best I've ridden. The geometry of the frame just suits my stubby legs and long body perfectly. I'll admit though, that buying British does give me that wee feel good glow as well. Similarly, I like to deck my mountain bikes out with Hope components. Again, I like that they're British made and I'm supporting the industry, but more importantly I like Hope's durability, serviceability and shiny colours. I'm happy to pay a premium for that as well.
Any recent Orange hardtail owners can be doubly smug. British company, Taiwan built but never paid for in the administration, so all the money stayed in the UK.
I’m included in that BTW.
I have Planet X and a Pinnacle - do they count as British?
Well there are people here who are grateful for the sales, that's for sure. Keeps/kept some of us in a job. All in all I think it's less about the location of the work though and more about the skills and level of design or quality - buy from brands who understand this whole thing, walk the talk and care about your experience with the product. If they're in the UK, great.
My reason for buying a 631 frame and fork made in the Midlands was more about the actual manufacturing process and skills - metalwork and industry. I love being in frame factories in Asia, I love seeing the same thing happening on a smaller scale in the UK even more.
Three titanium bikes and at least two of them were made in the UK (Enigma fixed wheel from Sussex, and a Brompton from Sheffield and London, The Charge Freezer Ti wasn’t made here). My TT frame was hand made by Barry Chick. My next track bike probably won’t be UK made unless Hope reduce the price! More likely French.
I love the fact my Geometron can be classed as British according to this thread. It was manufactured in the same facility as my old Nicolai 🙂 (I did make a conscious decision to stay away from mega brands a long time ago though, nursing a very old Specialised Langster into it's dotage as a commuter though).
I have owned an Orange in the past and bought Islabikes for the young ones.
Been a Hope fanboy for decades though, with Burgtec in the mix as well.
I'd guess that the Merida UK office employs more people than Orange, for instance.
Came here to say basically the same thing but about Giant.
Orange also had a slightly dubious financial period recently where ethics may have gone out the window.
The idea of buying British to support Britain is a romantic falicy.
The idea of buying British to support Britain is a romantic falicy.
depends. If all we want for people is desk work, fine. I’d like to think wider options would remain including crafts that are done in workshops, so buying from brands who gave or use domestic manufacturing is always a factor for me. That also applies for brands overseas oxc. I wish that aspect of work had been more encouraged when I was at school.
(‘Shop Class as Soulcraft’ as a great read about why)
Any recent Orange hardtail owners can be doubly smug. British company, Taiwan built but never paid for in the administration, so all the money stayed in the UK.
I’m included in that BTW.
I'm not saying you're wrong but they seem to have had very little new Far East stock for ages now, long before the admin. From memory they couldn't get anything in during and after covid as they'd sold their current stock and suppliers were too busy making frames for bigger manufactures to bother with small orders. When they finally did get the back orders in a lot of it was 650b, which no one wanted anymore. You've not been able to buy an XL 29" P7 for years! IIRC this was part of the reason for the cash flow problems?
I'm certainly not saying no one got burnt though, I'm certain they did but Orange have had no stock of plenty of the Taiwan built stuff for a couple of years now.
My recent history (15 years, going backwards) reads: BTR Ranger, BTR Ranger, Stanton Switchback, Stanton Slackline, Cotic BFE, Cotic BFE, Cotic Soul, Orange 5 - a mixture of 26" 27.5" and 29". I've got a type 🤣
I'll always try and buy anything UK built or UK based; 1 because I know they're primarily designed and built for our conditions, and 2 because it does support our industries and staff. I usually also buy Hope parts where possible.
In the non-too-distant future I'll likely move back to a full-suss and perhaps even an ebike, where I expect my choices will be more limited than a failrly traditional steel hardtail...
Is it more important to support the companies who employ lots of people in this country or those who don't? None of the UK offices of international bike companies that I've visited are huge, but the patriotically British businesses are tiny. Not quite one man and a dog, but often not far off. I'd guess that the Merida UK office employs more people than Orange, for instance.
I’m not sure i where i stand on the issues here but surely we have to look at jobs per bike sold. How many people do Merida employ per sale? How many people many do Cotic employ per sale? How many people do Shand employ per sale?
Does anyone think that Merida create the most jobs per sale because they employ the most here?
Orange must score well on this as they make bikes here and sell through retail shops
I have Planet X and a Pinnacle - do they count as British?
Well there are people here who are grateful for the sales, that's for sure. Keeps/kept some of us in a job. All in all I think it's less about the location of the work though and more about the skills and level of design or quality - buy from brands who understand this whole thing, walk the talk and care about your experience with the product. If they're in the UK, great.
My reason for buying a 631 frame and fork made in the Midlands was more about the actual manufacturing process and skills - metalwork and industry. I love being in frame factories in Asia, I love seeing the same thing happening on a smaller scale in the UK even more.
One of the things that led to me choosing a Pinnacle (Arkose - 2019 model I believe) was you making yourself so available Jameso. You were clearly passionate about what you were doing, and were always answering questions from those who bought your bikes. I don't think I've seen anything quite like that from anyone else.
It certainly helped me having a bike designer happy to help with any queries I had. Thanks once again.
Currently riding a Boardman and building a Sonder.
I bought the Sonder for a couple of reasons; I love the frame and its colour scheme, they have an actual shop near me which has fantastic staff and I really like Alpkit and their stuff.
It did also help that I got a really good deal on a kit from the Alpkit Outlet too
I have a 3rd bike which is Spanish, but I've donated that to a bikeless friend and is just waiting to be picked up.
I’m not sure i where i stand on the issues here but surely we have to look at jobs per bike sold. How many people do Merida employ per sale? How many people many do Cotic employ per sale? How many people do Shand employ per sale?
Does anyone think that Merida create the most jobs per sale because they employ the most here?
Orange must score well on this as they make bikes here and sell through retail shops
Thats a total fantasy land argument.
If you want high employment per bike then you're looking at high prices to pay for that and in this economic climate that isnt sustanable in big numbers.
I know of at least two brands who were bigger employers but everyone was self employed, resulting in zero job security. By your vague reconning thats better than someone employing people properly if the profits stay onshore... Which I'm assuming probably isnt your general mindset so its clearly not as simple as that.
depends. If all we want for people is desk work, fine. I’d like to think wider options would remain including crafts that are done in workshops, so buying from brands who gave or use domestic manufacturing is always a factor for me. That also applies for brands overseas oxc. I wish that aspect of work had been more encouraged when I was at school.
(‘Shop Class as Soulcraft’ as a great read about why)
Thats more of a diversification / expanding of the job market issue though not a Buy Brittish. In general, people are not prepaired to pay for UK skilled workers.
For the gravel bikers, Fustle bikes, designed and assembled in Northern Ireland
Cotic, Orange, Starling, Deviate, Privateer, Saracen, Atherton and loads more. Bikes in every segment, hitting most price points
How many of these bikes are actually made in the UK? I imagine there are very few components on any of them that weren't brought in from overseas..(ie Saracen, Cotic, Deviate all make frames overseas)
Also how are we defining British?
Saracen is mentioned in the OP. Now we all know basically nothing of theirs is manufactured in the UK but they are a British brand... Owned by Madison, a British brand, Owned by H Young, a British brand... Owned by Lakeland, a British brand... Owned by (until recently) a Canadian, an American and someone from Bermuda. Can we call a brand who seemingly isn't/wasn't owned & run by anyone living on this continent, never mind in this country as British?
Do we accept bikes made in British territories (like Bermuda) as being British? Because they are British but they provide exactly the same British manufacturing jobs and contribute just the same to the British economy as brands that aren't British.
If you want to support UK manufacturing then that's great but don't equate that with buying British because it's far, far more complicated than that.