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New bike has an XX AXS mech
I mean, it seems ok, it shifts at the touch of a button.
Doesn't seem as instant as I thought it would be, seems to miss the odd button press, occasionally skips down a couple of cogs with one press.
I'm assuming it's set up ok from the shop as it generally shifts up and down ok. It just doesn't seem as crisp and precise as I thought it would be after all the gushing I've seen about it.
Obviously I've come here before checking YouTube for set up videos. Do I need to go to YouTube and watch set up videos, or is it just gears with their normal foibles sans cable?
Whilst I'm on the subject - why have I got a pod with two buttons for my dropper when either button will operate it up/down?
I didn’t like it, had it on my gravel bike and while it can shift one gear fairly quickly it doesn’t seem to be able to shift multiple as quick as even a basic cable setup. I also didn’t like the feel of clicking a button versus the feedback of a mechanical trigger. Someone will be along soon to tell me I’m wrong
edit to say it also didn’t tolerate setup issues nearly as well as cables as each micro adjust seemed to move too far, this was a problem on the particular frame or mech hanger I had and couldn’t get it to index cleanly no matter how it was set
You can set the shifter to shift 2 cogs (or more) with a long press. Maybe that's how it's been set up. The phone app will get you what you need to monitor the state of the batteries and change your preferences.
I have GX Axs. I like it, but not to the extent I hate my non-axs bikes. (Especially my Campagnolo 10 speed).
And after 15 months I still shift down when I want to shift up because I press the wrong button.
And after 15 months I still shift down when I want to shift up because I press the wrong button.
The first thing I did when I got the app was change the buttons so top goes up the cassette and bottom goes down the cassette. Fried my brain how it came set up the opposite way
I bought an e-gravel bike a couple of months ago, mostly for commuting. I specifically went for the bike with SRAM Force AXS partly because the idea of trying to internally cable up a mechanical rear mech through the frame was off putting and partly just for the fact that once set, it stays that way - fewer things to go wrong, no cable to snag.
So far it's been flawless. I don't think it's any faster than mechanical shifting but it's always spot on.
Have a look on the SRAM app, make sure everything is paired properly, firmware updated etc. I would say check the rear mech hanger but I assume the bike has a UDH?
Is it transmission or the older axs? Transmission apparently does have a slight delay (I think to help make sure the chain is in the right position to move when under a lot of load), the older axs doesn't do that.
Have you got the app? You can get it connected and check your settings...you may have it set to multi shift with a longer press (which can be disabled).
The shop may have set it up as they like it.
Transmission apparently does have a slight delay (I think to help make sure the chain is in the right position to move when under a lot of load), the older axs doesn't do that.
The delay is because it has a narrow-wide cassette. Meaning the chain will only move when it gets to the shifting teeth
My understanding (which is absolutely not technically competent, and should be fact checked) is that the electronic shifting doesn’t have to be as fast to engage as cable actuated ones, but that this is not important, since the AXS can shift under power (unlike traditional gears). So you don’t need to pause power delivery while you wait for the gear to engage.
So you don’t need to pause power delivery while you wait for the gear to engage.
It does require re-learning how to ride, it actually shifts better if you just keep the power down. The way you used to ride with mechanical, unconsciously easing off just a fraction as you make the shift actually slows AXS down.
^ every day is a school day.
I like mine, though I do wonder if the GX AXS rear mech is a bit more prone to picking up brush and branches getting stuck in it than a mechanical rear mech. No idea why, but it does seem to suffer and has needed numerous hanger and cage straightenings 🤔
Change the buttons round in the app, it was backwards for me at the start until I switched them.
I got the updated buttons too which felt nice as well, they were only £20 if not already fitted
If it's the t-type then it's not as quick as the older version because it waits for the perfect moment to change gear. I have both an older setup and a t-type and the older is much much quicker but as has been said it means you dont have to have good technique and just shift whenever and keep your power pretty much the same without shifting sympathetically.
Having considered an AXS bike recently but ended up with cable I'm happy to read this thread as I'm pretty sure I'd be in the same boat if it isn't levels better.
I convinced myself I needed electric gears a while back, but before buying demo'd several bikes with SRAM AXS stuff. Saved me a lot of money in not bothering to buy it!
The lack of feedback from the lever just removes some of that connection and feedback from the bike (this might not be important to everyone, but is to me), shifting felt slow(er than I expected), I thought the button ergonomics were rubbish and the shifter was clunky. I like the idea of removing cables but was really disappointed with the AXS, can't see myself "upgrading" anytime soon
I commented above, but I’d just like to add a vote for the AXS. I bought it on one bike. About 6 months later, I had the opportunity to buy another bike, and I liked the AXS so much, I paid the extra for a new bike with the AXS on that one too. On both my bikes, there has been no fiddling or adjusting required, which is very different from my experience with cables stretching and always having to adjust the cable tension over time at the shifter. It seems that the quality of my shifting was always changing subtly. On the AXS, it’s been totally consistently good.
AIG I was buying another bike tomorrow, 100% I’d be buying wireless if I could afford it.
On the downside, I want to admit that I had one SRAM battery go bad, which was replaced under warranty. But as a result, I now have bought a spare £50 battery for each bike.
Also, as @nickingsley above has said, I can’t explain it, but my jockey wheels seem to pick up more grass and branches than my old SLX or XT jockeys.
Feel like I should follow up on my previous post by saying it's still infinitely better than manual gears in my opinion. The SRAM pod lever is dog poo and should be binned immediately but ignoring that oversight the rest is a worthy upgrade for me. I went through a fair few rides of nightmarish lack of shifting due to mud ingress so went for an upgrade kit from Germany. I've now had 6 years of service out of it and it's never missed a beat once, other than when idiocy means I've let the battery go flat.
It's only Transmission (and Shimano) intended to be shifted under load, rather than earlier AXS.
Gears shifting when they feel like it rather than when the rider needs the shift done and dusted doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. Suppose it might be less problematic on a ebike. Now the original fanfare has died down, the Transmission shifting delay is cropping up more and more in cycling media and reviews as not being so great. Some saying they would prefer it shifted quicker like new Red XPLR. The key difference is Red XPLR is not intended to shift under load, but Shimano Hyperglide+ and Linkglide are and neither have a delay. Expect to see the delay reduced or eradicated with future groupsets. This seems half baked, like various Sram products over the years when first released.
I like it enough that I’m having frames built without cable routing.
I try and avoid shifting my GX AXS (ie not Transmission) when underload. I had thought this helped reduce wear on the cassette, chain, derailleur pivots and excess load on the motor driving the rear derailleur.
From the above, the consensus seems to support that.
Correct or am I missing out that I could/should be changing under load?
Sounds correct @nickingsley - non-transmission is a very quick shift but needs the standard slight ease off on power.
Regular Eagle works so well that I'm not bothered. I'd rather spend my money on suspension and tyres and the longest dropper posts I can get. Stuff that makes a real difference.
Those new Transmission derailleurs are enormous. It looks like you've bolted a Transformers toy to your bike.
Maybe that's why you're picking up more undergrowth.
I rode it for an afternoon last year. I didn't think it was anything notable tbh - felt predictable but slower and disconnected. Like operating a vending machine? The shifter ergonomics bugged me but I expect that was just not being used to it and would resolve in time. To me it's in the 'nice kit but cost:benefit doesn't justify' pile. As a system there's some good stuff going on but I'd go for the cable version when it's out. I'm not a fan of adding tech or electronics to my bikes where not essential so I'm not the target customer anyway.
the age old love/hate AXS discussion. Much like marmite.
I think its mint. never had a fault with the previous generation or my current GX and XX setups. But i appreciate its not for everyone.
Will be interesting to see if Shimano ever bring a rival out (Di2 doesnt count... wires.... uggghhhhh grim!)
Will be interesting to see if Shimano ever bring a rival out
A mate has been riding round with the new XTR groupset fitted.
It's wireless and very shiny.
Back on topic.
I too have tried a couple of bikes with t type for half a day and once over the novelty of it was a bit underwhelmed.
I can see the appeal for some folks but to me shifting is a feel between thumb, crank and rear wheel that's so ingrained I kind of missed it.
I'd also rather spend the money on tyres and suspension.
I think a lot of the issue is the last manual shifting stuff was really good, the electronic is incrementaly better but not that Earth shockingly better.
The thing is thou as there is no cable to stretch so the shift is likely to stay the same without needing any tweaking over a longer period of time.
Cables do not stretch.
Will be interesting to see if Shimano ever bring a rival out
There are plenty of photos in the wild of the new XTR wireless, I expect it’s imminent.
I use wireless, mostly due to an old thumb injury (bad break) meaning normal shifting is not comfy. The old AXS was a rattling mess, mostly due to terrible SRAM clutches.
The newer T-Type works fine, in that you press the button & it shifts, every time, with minimal fuss, which I like. What I dislike is the lower cages are made from the softest of metals, and bend with harsh words.
As they are also staggered (look bent from new) it’s almost impossible to straighten it to where it will shift again.
I don’t miss messing about with yet more cables on bikes.
Cables absolutely do stretch...not massively but definitely enough to require small tweaks to cable tension to keep things crisp. Given how fine the tuning is on 12-speed stuff these days, the tiniest amount of stretch can show up.
Will be interesting to see if Shimano ever bring a rival out
I mean, 105 or Ultegra (which is the equivalent?) are better than Rival anyway - so why would they? 😉
Like operating a vending machine?
This made me actually LOL.
I'm also in the cables4life camp - transmission is one of the least performance critical parts on a trail bike IMO, and I've a good stash of stupidly cheap rear mechs to work through on my 11sp setup.
IMHO, cables stretch/settle after the first few rides, and need little adjustment going forwards
I honestly can't see anything nicer than an XT setup with a HG+ cassette and chain.. moves up and down the cassette as smooth as a Swiss watch. as long as you use good quality inner/outers maintenance is probably less than the time spent unplugging and replugging batteries. And shifting under load is a thing. Standard SRAM just clunks through gears.. and IMHO all the wireless stuff seems to do is get rid of the clunk.
Iv'e got an XT mech that Noah made when he'd finished his sailing trip, covered in battle scars that works as good as the day it was made, and a GX (cable) mech which exploded and blinded 3 orphans as soon as it was taken from it's box....
Cablrs do not stretch. Outers can compress if you use cheap ones and end caps might close up.on seats if not fitted properly but inners do not stretch
As others have said it is designed to shift slower to align the shift with the correct ramps on the cassette so it does shift. It’s ,ore noticeable on climbs as the shift points are further apart and if your like me when you do shift you want it now before stalling. It will be interesting to see how the Shimano version works. Some leaked images suggest it’s imminent. I would tan be surprised som3 journos already have it for pre launch testing
Iv'e got an XT mech that Noah made when he'd finished his sailing trip, covered in battle scars
😀
I find AXS to be completely 'Meh'.
I've ridden it on a few bikes now, a few days rides worth, the most notable thing I found was it showed me how much I use cable tension on the shifter to judge roughly where I am on block, and I really missed the tactility of that. Weird I know.
I can't see me willingly parting with the cash to move to it.
the age old love/hate AXS discussion. Much like marmite.
Nah, I just don't feel that strongly about it. It's different but not better. To justify the price difference it needs to be 3 or 4 times better than my cable version before I switch.
I still think the T type derailleur looks like a Decepticon and is twice the size it should be.
Marmite on the other hand is like liquidised, rotten vegetables and anyone who likes it must be a serial killer.
Been running it since it came out, been faultless and if it broke at the weekend I'd replace it with another. So much better than cables
On a 2x it’s definitely better IMO. On a 1x it’s aesthetics and less cable clutter. My biggest gripe is SRAMs piss poor quality control on everything, I’ve warrantied pretty much half of everything SRAM I have and that includes a Red E1 rear derailleur which missed shifts and would not index nicely from new - SRAM replaced and new one is fine. I’ve got an 18month old GX AXS that I replaced the jockey wheels on as the bearings wore out and with new jockey wheels and therefore no “play” in them the shifting has gone all shite. I’ve put a new X01 on in its place and it’s back shifting perfectly again.
@bitmuddytoday; are you sure that the SRAM AXS is not ok to shift under power. Mine might actually be the GX, so I don’t know if that is different. But I was specifically assured that mine was ok to shift under power.
The t type is shift under power, original AXS like normal ease off
I've got an 18month old GX AXS that I replaced the jockey wheels on as the bearings wore out
Yep, same here and with replacement Uberbike jockey wheels, which only did a few months. I was subsequently advised with all these jockey wheels fill the bearings full of grease before installation/1st use.
Oh and I think the OP is a victim of the aforementioned piss poor QC. Could be either the derailleur or the cassette (I’ve sent 2 GX cassettes back because they were bent - both replaced by SRAM.). Don’t assume the shop have set it up right either, if they supplied you with the B gap tool then check it’s setup properly. Then check the micro adjust settings in the app. A new derailleur with no issues should be at position 14/15/16 out of 31.
I had the original GX AXS and never really rated it. I locked the pivot by adding a small spacer which at least stopped the derailleur from bouncing around all the time which helped a bit. These days I have X01 mechanical derailleur and XX1 chain and cassette on my lightweight E bike. Shifts for the most part better, not had to adjust the shifting in 18 months and the chain measures 'new' on the 12sp Park Tool checker. T-Type is good for full power E-bikes, and submitting warranty claims....
After I went through 8 Deore 11 speed derailleurs on my Banshee, I upgraded to GX AXS & love it. The Deore were great value, but made of cheese.
Tonight I rode my old hardtail with 1x10 XTR & it reminded me how good cable shifting could be.
are you sure that the SRAM AXS is not ok to shift under power. Mine might actually be the GX, so I don’t know if that is different. But I was specifically assured that mine was ok to shift under power.
I thought it was the newer Shimano 12 spd setups that were 'OK' to shift under power? Not convinced they are, and I never do, but that was the advertising blurb.
I’ve sent 2 GX cassettes back because they were bent - both replaced by SRAM.
I use my AXS GX with a Shimano 12 speed chain, cassette and Hope chainring and it all works very well.
In the last 12 months I have sent 2 off M8100 12 speed cassettes back to a mainstream UK bike shop due to bent cogs. One in proper Shimano packaging, one not. Replaced without quibble, but did surprise me.
Got too much money?
Like having to remember to charge batteries?
Want ridiculously slow but smooth shifting with no feel, control or feedback from your shifter and a poorly designed battery clip system where the tab can wear allowing it to fall out on the trail?
Eagle AXS is for you
Want the same complete lack of shifter feedback and smooth but incredibly. Even slower shifting. A badly implemented mech mounting system that can in certain circumstances be moved out of position reducing shifting accuracy or in extreme cases actually cause damage to certain frames?
T type AXS is for you.
🙂
Not on the SRAM AXS sales team then!
a poorly designed battery clip system where the tab can wear allowing it to fall out on the trail?
It did occur to me that this might be an issue at some point although I haven’t yet lost a battery. Admittedly I do gravel type stuff rather than jumps etc but I bought some battery cages as it looks as though these will mitigate the possibility of losing a battery due to a loose battery clip. 🤷🏽♂️
I’m not sure I notice it being any slower than the manual Shimano XT system I had previously so that’s not an issue for me. It’s the cost/quality I have the biggest gripe about. SRAM warranty is worth its weight in gold mind you.
I had a demo Fuel EXe for the weekend. I normally ride a slack HT, this was a full sus with AXS and a motor so there was a fair bit of stuff that I wasn't used to. I enjoyed the bike, but the one thing that made no impression at all on me was the electronic transmission. It was only when I returned the bike on Monday that I realised that I should have had an opinion on it but I had nothing at all - it was simply ok, not significantly better than the mechanical gears on my own bikes other than being new.
Admittedly I've been using axs exclusively for last 6 years (I only have 1 bike)...however, I don't recall getting any feedback from my cable shifting system. I pressed the shifter and the chain moved up/down the cassette...which is exactly how it works on the axs system. I press the shifter button and it moves.
The usual response about having to charge a battery - it needs done ever 4-6 weeks and is the same effort as plugging your phone in to charge (a daily occurrence for lots of people)...it is a non-issue.
It isn't cheap, that is the biggest drawback to the system. From my experience, it does appear to be durable and works consistently every single time with no adjustments needed.
Not everyone gets on with it, which is fair enough...
I had no real issues with a cables system other than the 3-monthly tweak of a cable adjuster or not getting a shift in some absolutely filthy conditions, I've not had those since going to axs (but I've also been lucky enough to not have too many absolutely filthy rides).
As someone who rides bikes with cable operated gears, old AXS & new T-Type, I can’t ever once recall thinking I was missing some mythical ‘feedback’ from my cables when I no longer had them, nor when I jump back on a bike with cabled gears do I have a hallelujah moment & realise what I was missing.
I press a button, or push a lever & the bike changes gear. They all change roughly at the same sort of speed & life goes on. I like no cables, and having less thumb pain from AXS, I don’t have some battery charging based meltdown about the ‘purity’ of a simple machine, it’s just a bike.
I can’t ever once recall thinking I was missing some mythical ‘feedback’ from my cables when I no longer had them,
I have only briefly tried the transmission shifter, personally prefer the gen1 AXS that I have on my main bike. But I guess thats ergonomics rather than feedback.
The only "feedback" that is missing with AXS is on a cable set up you know when you've hit your bottom gear and you try for another. With AXS every shift feels the same so you push the button expecting a shift that never comes.
If you connect your axs to your bike computer, you get a beep when at furthest ends of the cassette when you change into the last one...
I've got that but often wish I could switch it off as it just reminds me how unfit I am!
re feedback
well as you push through shimano you can feel how many gears you are going through in one sweep, same on the downshift multis
I think you count that rather than feel it, don't you? You can do exactly the same with axs...set up the long press and decide how many gears you want to shift with it (can be set to always 2, always 3, always 4 or until you let go the button)...I'm still not understanding what is feel about that though. You press/click/tap a button/lever/interface and the chain moves in a direction.
Your legs will feel a change as it'll either get easier or harder on them as they turn the pedals.
It is my legs that tell me what gear I'm in, not pressing the shifter and getting a different response/feel depending on which gear I'm in, so I'm clearly too think or too linear in my thinking to get the 'feel' of a shifter. You push/pull, it clicks, the chain moves and you keep pedalling...