[Closed] Avalanche Downhill Racing box of goodies

Hmmmmm. Interesting.

Why the dire dhx? Everyone knows the dhx is a piss poor shock.

Why the dire dhx?

It's no longer just a Fox DHX... it's an [url= http://www.avalanchedownhillracing.com/Fox%20DHX/Fox%20DHX%20Air%20Speed%20Sensitive%20Adjuster%20Kit.htm ]Avalanche Advantage Speed Sensitive Damping (SSD) modified DHX Air shock[/url] 🙄

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I had considered a CCDBair but this is lighter and hopefully betterer... plus DHX Air's are cheap because everyone says they are crap... I figured it worth a try after reading the Avalanche bumf.

Could have spend the money on a decent shock in the 1st place without having to buy twice.
FAFF with warranty servicing spare parts.
It'll make you .0001 seconds faster

I fitted an avalanche cart to upgrade my 2011 Boxxer Races last week. Awesome, but got stung on import duty. Shame there isn't a UK importer.

Have caught my shorts on the Top adjuster a few times, but it looks like the Fox 36 cart uses the fox knobs, so will not be an issue for you.

Superdan; import duty was paid as expected 😥

greeble - I'm not worried about faster, and I'm not worried about warranty or spare parts for this stuff. It's about trying something I want to try... the current offering from the main players don't offer what I want; I don't want to be flipping a lever from C-to-T-to-D because somebody in marketing thinks that's what we riders want.

I've had my last three shocks custom tuned and run a CCDB for two years, by playing with these I've worked out what I want from a shock, and I've used a few forks in that time as well. I've now asked for the attributes I want in an Air shock and fork pairing; not something I could get off the shelf from the usual suspects.

Having had both CCDB and Avy shocks, I can say you won't be disappointed. Craig knows his stuff.
By all accounts the fork cartridges are great too.

Let us know how you get on the with the DHX air, I'm hoping all the internals will have been replaced and just the 'chassis' has been used for the conversion.

Hi Loco. Thats what Craig said he does with them; and there was a bag of bits and bobs in with the DHX so pretty sure it's guts have been ripped out and replaced 😈 No more position sensative Pro-Pedal-Pish(tm) as it was replaced with the Speed Sensative Damping (SSD) 8)

I chose to do the mods to an older DHX4.0 as Craig advised. I bought a NOS which I bought from ebay-USA and had sent straight to Craig at Avalanche. This way I get a brand new shock with the dial for compression adjustment rather than the more recent three position switch; and the bottom out adjuster of the 5.0 is removed as part of the mod anyway (unless you really want/need it).

Would you like a look inside when it needs a service?

Yes please, I'd like to have a little look inside one of those as they're pretty rear beasts 😀

Available Early 2014 - LoCo Speed Sensitive Damping Cartridge™

Awesome stuff Messiah. Looking forward to hearing more about this. I wonder if the Fox 36 cartridges also fit into the equivalent X-Fusion Fork.

I've asked for improved low speed control to add stability and reduce brake dive and low speed wallow without causing spiking and harshness to the high speed stuff...

How about spending the money on a skills course?

Hi geetee, the geek in me will report back at some point 😳

Are you running X-Fusion instead of Bos now... any reason?

How about spending the money on a skills course?

Do you know the OP?

If you don't then how do you know he needs a skills course? I'm getting mighty fed up with people bleating on about needing a skills course to be able to ride properly. If you're a newbie to riding then I can see the value, but I've had two mates go on ones where they were actually better riders than the 'teacher' and learnt nothing.

The shock looks mint - I've no idea why Greeble et al feel the need to slate your choice. The DHX air is pretty rubbish but if it's got new internals then its not really a DHX-A is it? I'd like to give it a try and that's coming from a confirmed air shock hater...

How about spending the money on a skills course?

Thanks for the input xiphon... but this is not about getting faster so my skills are irrelevant; it's about me making improvements to the feel of my bike in the way that I want for where and how I ride.

If I wanted to get faster I'd be needing bigger wheels surely 😆 🙄

I reckon messiah is secretly planning on taking down Joe Barnes winning streak at the MacAvalanche this year 🙂

You are welcome to compare your setup against mine at the race 🙂

Are you running X-Fusion instead of Bos now... any reason?

LOL well spotted! There is a long story about this <big sigh>

Basically when I changed my frame (I got an updated and fully tailored AM) I also changed head sets, from straight 1 1/8th to ZS tapered. That necessitated a new headset.

The base plate on the BOS forks on the old frame/headset combo was always an easy fit. It was a CK steel set, so no split race, but even so, I could put it on and take it off by hand. It was never a problem on the old frame but when I moved to the new frame and changed to a Reset racing headset, turns out that the base plate on that unit moved on the BOS steerer. Even when it was all clamped together, there was play in the front.

Measuring the steerer tube on the BOS fork it turns out that it's fractionally under sized. Tolerances between the CK and Reset racing units just meant I got away with it with the CK unit, but not the Reset unit.

I identified all this back in October but of course, there was no distributor in the UK for BOS. So even though it should have been dealt with as a warranty issue, it wasn't. I knew I would be able to sort it some how, but I also knew that it would probably take forever to resolve. With my smashed arm healing, I decided to just buy another fork as a stop gap so that I could at least get riding again and then use the extra fork as a good excuse to build up another bike.

I ended up buying the X-Fusion fork as it was the least expensive/best performing option.

Surf Sales have been fantastic in trying to help me though. It's not resolved as yet as they are trying to convince BOS to cover the cost of putting the fork right. BOS acknowledge that my fork was part of a batch that all had the same problem, but they were initially saying that because it was out of warranty, they wouldn't fix it.

Which is a bit rich because there was no way I could access the warranty when the problem was identified.

Surf have said that they will at least let me buy a new steerer assembly from them at cost and fit and service the fork for free, which is really good of them but will still cost me £150. But they are trying to persuade BOS that because of the lack of UK distributor last year, that they should cover it.

Like I said, <big sigh>

The Vengeance is perfectly good; not as good as the BOS and it's definitely noticeable but I suspect not any slower as a result. It is however, 250g heavier.

If you don't then how do you know he needs a skills course? I'm getting mighty fed up with people bleating on about needing a skills course to be able to ride properly.

I was going to same the same thing. I still think everyone can benefit from coaching, but it narks me off when people make this response assuming that people couldn't possible benefit from or have a preference for improved performance from kit or that their skills are so poor as to invalidate spending money on anything other than coaching.

I've not ridden with Messiah, but I've seen enough pictures to infer that he's a very capable rider.

Mmmmmmmmmm Avalanche. Let us know how you get on with it.

Thanks for the input xiphon... but this is not about getting faster so my skills are irrelevant; it's about me making improvements to the feel of my bike in the way that I want for where and how I ride.

If I wanted to get faster I'd be needing bigger wheels surely

Thanks geetee, here's hoping it all gets sorted for you. I liked the Bos Deville's I borrowed and I was going to buy them until the whole R52 thing happened. Avalanche has been an itch I've been wanting to scratch for a while as well though. Good to hear your arms mended 😛

I reckon messiah is secretly planning on taking down Joe Barnes winning streak at the MacAvalanche this year

Nice one acehtn 😉 I'll not handycap myself by having my bawbag sliced open and stitched up the week before this time 😐

I'll not be at the MacAvalanche this year... I've got an entry for the Trans-Savoie though 8)

It's not about the speed... it's about the geekery

It's not about the speed... it's about the geekery

+1

There's something inherently satisfying riding down a track lfeeling ike a sack of spuds, then doing the next run with a couple more clicks of this-and-that and everything working nicely 🙂

Coaching's nice, but so are shiny bits that do what they say on the tin.

the pursuit of perfection for the person riding the bike, +1 for geekery.
Shame Avalanche kit has to be imported, rarely see it, toyed with it but cost put me off...... not geek enough 🙂

🙂
Forgot about the nutsack issues. Have fun on the over-seas jaunt, if Joe Barnes dosen't race this year then i can beat him on your behalf, i again will be racing for giggles and fighting not to come dead last, and maybe scare some Orange5 riders 🙂

Nearly there. Changing the gubbins in the fork was quite enjoyable and it all went together very easily. The forks certainly feel smooth in the workshop but I've not had them out to play yet.

The fork has gained nearly 150g with the change from the RC2 cartridge to the Avalanche open bath. 200cc of oil in the leg is much more than would have been in the RC2 cartridge. Only 120g between these Float 36's and my Marzocchi 55 RC3 Ti fork now...

@messiah how does the new shock hold up to CCDB btw?

And do the avalanche floats compare to the 55s?

I've not ridden them yet [u]banks[/u] 😳

We've got snow on the ground and I like my hardtail when conditions are like this.

So far I can say that the Fox DHX Air is 421g vs 550g for the CCDB, and add 310g for the Ti coil (or 520g for steel). So it's lighter 😉

As I said above the Float 36 has gained 150g from going RC2 cartridge to Avy oil bath. It was 2180g and is now 2330g. The Marz 55 RC3 Ti is 2450g.

Both feel smooth in the workshop in the standard settings. So far I know the weight of everything and the performance of nothing 👿

Messiah.

Thats a good conversion for a Fox,Open bath also means no weekly lower leg servicing. 😀

Have always kept an eye open on Avy stuff.Seems to have a good following of users in the USA.

Hi Sam,

The gnargnar junkies in Phoenix Arizona raved about the Avalanche stuff. Where they ride has a habit of blowing up shocks and forks due to the type of riding in the heat and dust. They liked the Avy stuff as it performs really well and requires less fixing than other kit.

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Been wanting to try it. Needed new kit. I'll know soon if it was worth it.

I've had the same upgrade on a coil dhx. Feels great but has made the forks feel pap in comparison.

I'd be interested to hear what you think to the fork cartridge as I'm eyeing up a couple of these.

Loco, is there a curiosity discount when these need servicing or the cart needs fitting?

Onzadog - that was one of my reasons for buying both together. When I run the Float fork and the CCDB the shock feels better than the fork, if I run the Marz with a Float shock then the fork feels better. Both Floats is okay but not great at speed, or both coils is great but a bit wallowy (and a heavy option for some riding).

Hoping for a well ballanced do it all set up... as I've said above it's all geekery really and I know it won't make me any faster etc; but I enjoy faffing 😀

I can appreciate the pleasure derived from a good faff and geeking out. maybe that's the reason I'm considering a couple of the carts.

Have fun, I love funking about with bike setup.

I wish I had the ability to feel the difference 🙂

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Goodies installed 😀

But I have a stinking cold and there is snow on the ground 👿

Messiah, anything to report yet? I keep looking at these 36 carts and I've got a very itchy trigger finger.

Was it tricky to fit? Where did you get the correct spec of oil from and did you have any trouble getting the rebound cap off the old damper?

Cheers,
Onzadog

First release from the geek 😳

FORK

Installation was easy as I followed the instructions... and I did indeed need the blowtorch to release the Loctite on the rebound cap. Heat then twist, heat then twist, etc as it’s a very fine thread and took a while. Once installed filling with oil was easy and getting the fork back together was no bother. I bought some MAXIMA Race Enduro fork oil from ebay as Avalanche recommend using fork oil designed for cartridges. Going from the FOX RC2 Cartridge to open bath Avy its gained 150g… which means it now weighs only 100g less than my Marzocchi 55 RC3 Ti. If I’d realised that before I might have got the cartridge for the Bomber but the 250g of the 36 was calling the weight weenie in me 🙄 .

So far the fork is a huge improvement over the 36 RC2 (older 2010 FIT cartridge). It feels overdamped in the garage but on the trail it is superb. I used to run about 55psi as a compromise pressure; this gave 20% sag which is less than I wanted but it prevented wallowing, fork dive, and end of travel harshness(packdown?). I’m now running 50psi which is about 30% sag and I think I will go lower still as I’ve yet to feel dive is a problem and the fork is not yet as plush as the Bombers (I doubt it will ever be but it’s fun to try… should I have bought the kit for the Bombers though?).

REAR SHOCK

Easy to install 😉

After the first ride I reduced the air volume as I found it was wallowing in the early travel (I’ve done this with my other Float shock so expected this to be the same). It was a big improvement and now the DHX feels really well suited to my AM. It feels better than either the Float or the CCDB which is high praise. The TF/Push tuned Float I have is a great XC shock as it has plenty of compression damping so doesn’t give up its travel easily (unlike before it was tuned). Where my simple Float is outclassed the CCDB takes over and is my more AM and doonhall choice. I love the CCDB on the downs as it soaks everything up but for techy climbs it can wallow deep in the travel making you feel like your falling over the back. The Avalanche DHX Air so far feels like a great combination of the two. As with the fork it feels overdamped in the garage and sitting on it I’m getting 30% sag at the same pressure I do with the Float (and the same sag as the CCDB). Out on the trail it feels little different to my Float at low speed and in the normal stuff, but when the speed increases it seamlessly gains the fluidity of the CCDB.

FORK & SHOCK

So far so good. I’ve not done everything I want with them yet but so far they feel better than the other forks and shocks I’ve tried (Yes, even the BOS stuff!). As good on the XC stuff as the Float/Float combo I have and as good on the doonhalls as the CCDB/Marz set up. Where the Avalanche combo has amazed me so far and really feels special is when you start attacking and pumping trail features. This is something I love about hardtails but some full suspension set-ups just don’t work that well at it. I loved my CCDB/Marz combo at speed but for low speed and pumping they felt too soft. I think CCDB’s are quite slow to rebound from deep in the travel which is why they don’t pump too well, and perhaps why people say they” feel a bit dead” or “lack pop”… and Marz forks are always a bit softly sprung and underdamped which feels great but isn’t overly responsive (IMHO etc). The Avalanche combo feels amazing when being pumped… much better than anything I’ve tried before almost like a great big hand is shoving the bike forward with each pump. More testing and riding required but so far I’m very very impressed.

I'm enjoying the geekery

Fork change.

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There was nothing wrong with the Avalanched 36 Floats... opposite problem.... I wasn't liking the Revelations on my other bike so the 36 Floats have had the travel reduced and will be used on there (again).

The 55's now have an Avalanche cartridge installed. I'm hoping this will keep the plushness of the 55 but improve the damping to do away with the wallowing they were prone too before. In the garage and garden they still feel Marzocchi plush which feels better than the 36's; proper testing to begin in the next few days 😀

Looks much better with the Marzocchi fork IMHO 8)

Just curious, but in what situations did you find the 55 wallowy?

What's your weight, if that's not a delicate question?

chakaping - I'm 185-190lbs with kit; with the standard 55 Ti spring I get 30% sag so spot on and it feels right. I love the plushness of the 55 and up until trying an Avalanche tuned fork it was my favourite feeling fork.

Where I found the 55 wallowy is on hard braking and low speed tech when I'm hard on/off the brakes; the fork feels more divey and wallowy compared with the more damped/controlled feeling of my 36 (conversely the 36 never feels as good/smooth as the 55 at speed). When I tried to dial out the dive/wallow with the 55's adjusters and/or pre-load I lost much of the high speed plushness which I love about the fork. Similar with the 36; trying to improve the high end plushness lead to losing the controlled feeling and made the fork feel worse. Too many compromises at either end to get the feeling I wanted... hence chatting to Craig and getting the Avalanche cartridge.

My ideal fork would have the low speed composure of a Fox 36 and the high speed plushness of the 55... a bit like a Bos Deville (without the service problems etc)... which is what the Avalanche Tuned 36 has (and probably the 55 now). Of the two in standard trim I would take a standard 55 plushness over the 36 control (assuming the shock has the same feeling).

When I bought the Avy kit I should have gone for the 55 Avy cartridge but the weightweenie in me wanted to try the 36 to save 250g… a saving which doesn’t exist as my fork gained 150g from going closed cartridge RC2 to open bath Avy (only 100g between them now) 🙄 . I really like the Avy 36. its not quite as plush as the 55 but it does not dive and wallow and is super-smooth at speed like the 55. I prefer the Avy 36 to the standard 55... next will be to see which I prefer of the Avy 55 vs the Avy 36 😀

The Revelation Team fork in isolation is not a bad performing fork and I thought I had it set up quite well; but jumping from the Avy 36 shows it is comprehensively outclassed. Compared to the 36 it feels like the fork is over-stiff and over-damped. I feel I'm constantly fighting and correcting the fork to keep the bike on the trail... its fun, but it would be even more fun with a better fork. On my hardtail I like to ride the fork and let the back end do it's thing, but with the Revelation up front I'm finding I’m doing the opposite and hanging off the back to limit what I throw the fork at... it's bugging me. I used to run the 36 Float on this bike with a 30mm travel reducer and I much preferred it with that fork on… so I’m going to do that again, and I’m sure it’s going to be brilliant with Avy 36 on the front.

Well you've clearly thought about this a bit 😉

I've not noticed that from my 55, but the back end of my bike has been particularly wallowy (shock just been tuned) so I've put any unsettling movements at slow speed down to that.

Yeah nothing beats the way the 55 feels fast over rocks - like a hot knife through butter.

Much prefer my 55s over talas 36s, but I too find them a bit soft for the slower techy stuff. Went over the bars twice on my first ride! I need to spend a bit of time faffing but this Avy cartridge review has got me thinking.

The Avalanched 55's are forking awesome on it. It was good with the 36's but with 55's back on I can see that the ballance was not right with the fork not feeling as plush even when run at low enough pressures to cause other problems. With the 55 back on the front hunkers down and grips like the back... but without the brake dive and wallow these forks had before fitting the Avalanche cartridge. The fork damping is now much more controlled although it has kept the Marzocchi trademark plushness; it feels brilliant.

My bike now feels very ballanced in the way the suspension works and it is the best set up I've ridden for tech and speed.

I've reduced the travel on my 36's to 130mm and put them on my hardtail where they feel amazing again... perhaps there is an issue with my 36 fork that having run it in 130mm for a year it didn't like going back up to 160mm (worn stantions)???

Love the bike geekery and the write up on the AVA stuff.

What would happen if you kashima'd the 36's?

I'm pretty sure the older 2010 forks cannot use the Kashima stanchions. Mojo only offer it as an upgrade for the 2011 onwards... I think the threads at the top are different (but I could be wrong).

New stanchions are probably required for them. They have had a hard life and there are some deep gauges that have been repaired. Depending on what I do hardtail wise I'll probably have to replace the stanchions/CSU as they have a 1.5" steerer... which is fine in my Mmmbop; which is a tad on the small side so I'm on the lookout for something else.

I now see what you mean when you said you had a whole thread on your Avy stuff...I vaguely remember seeing this a few months ago 🙂

I'm pretty sure the older 2010 forks cannot use the Kashima stanchions. Mojo only offer it as an upgrade for the 2011 onwards... I think the threads at the top are different (but I could be wrong).

Pre 2011 36s can be Kashima'd but you do need to change the top caps, which can be pricey depending on spring system, if you were fitting the Avy stuff maybe not such an issue though.

Quite tempted to get some of their stuff to play with 😉

Geekery update 😉

The reason my Fox 36 was feeling a bit poorly was the air side had some dirty oil and gunk in it (could it have injested some of the lubricating oil from the lower leg?). With the air chamber cleaned out the fork is now super smooth and performing brilliantly on my hardtail. The fork oil in the damper side was very clean when I serviced the fork.

After the Trans-Savoie week long big mountain enduro race both the DHX shock and the 55 fork were in need of some attention. The rear shock was still performing well but making some squishing noises. The battering of the TS race and a summers worth of riding had pushed some air into the oil so a service by a suspension tuner was required (I used a local guy). Craig did warn me about this and its a risk with any air shock which is worked hard; and why air shocks are best serviced more frequently than coil shocks. After the service the shock is working brilliantly once more.

The 55 fork had gone a bit notchy and I was expecting there to be a problem with the seals or the oil; but when I popped the seals all was clean below? The problem was the wrap on the coil which had come apart and was jamming the coil in the leg. I stripped the fork completely to remove all the damaged coating and found the oil in the damper side to be lovely and clean (as with the 36). A little research later and I bought some heatshrink to re-wrap the coil and rebuild the fork (if you miss out the heatshrink on the coil the fork is rather noisy as the spring rattles about in the leg - I've also posted about this on a Marz 55 thread somewhere). I've greased up the spring and wrap more this time so hopefully it won't happen again (for another three years). The 55 is now super smooth and performing brilliantly once more... and I now know to keep a better eye on the spring leg to make sure the spring wrap is in good condition

I'm thinking about a new bike for 2014 (Nicolai Ion 16 is top of the list) and I'm tempted to go for 27.5 but that would mean new forks like 34's or Pike's (although I could run smaller tyres which will fit in my 36's and 55's).

I see Avy are now doing kits for Fox Float X & RP23 shocks, and all Fox 34 forks. Food for thought for my next purchase as I've been really impressed with the Avy kit I have been using.