At what point do you give up on tubeless and put a tube in?

Bit confused why you started again between these two steps:

After 6 weeks off that bike, the wheels has deflated.

3 retries of taping and the wheel has gone down again.

Mine nearly always leak to start with, then always seal better as a few weeks go by.

So after your 6 weeks off the bike I would have just pumped it up again and used it. Perhaps with a bit of tweentimes pumping to keep it solid

All of my tubeless wheels will lose pressure after 2-3months of not using them...some will fully deflate, others will partially deflate, but ALL will deflate. I don't really see it as an issue as I'd always check my pressures before a ride anyway. The only time I don't is regular use of the commuter and even that's because it's inflated weekly.

Yep, coming back to a flat tyre but zero sealant loss after a few days is pretty normal, just pump it back up, after a few days riding it'll seal fully.

Making sure you give it a proper sloshing about so everywhere gets covered helps.

So in answer to the question: Never!

I'd expect newly taped rims, new tyres to lose quite a bit of air between regular rides for a little while. new wheels on utility bike went down over night, pumped and rode a few times a week (nursery run, errands bike) for a week or two and they settled down to needing a top up every week, I expect that will settle in further.

And tubes lose pressure too. Not as quickly, but I'd be sticking a pump on any bike I'd not used for 6 weeks, for sure. Commuter tyres get a squirt every couple of weeks, same for the pump/jump bike (if I use it that often!)

As the others have said, tubeless loses pressure. It’s similar to running latex tubes.

When you’ve been having issues have you tracked down the problem before attacking with more tape?

ta11pau1 - respectfully disagree. I can leave mine weeks with only gradual pressure loss (road deflate more quickly than MTB for me). I’d be annoyed if they were flat after a few days.

Assuming this is a mountain bike, I'd persevere but also echo the above.

Tape, mount and inflate the tyre, give it a few minutes, if it's not holding most of the air without sealant check it, bucket of water etc if you can't hear the leak.

If it's holding reasonably, deflate, add sealant. Inflate to max rated pressure and go ride round the block for five or ten minutes, curbs potholes cobbles etc all help.

Leave it and hopefully deflate to desired pressure in the morning.

If its a road bike I'd ditch the idea of tubeless before I got as far as taping it the first time.

When I say coming back to a flat tyre after a few days, I mean after the initial set up. Once the sealant has plugged any tiny holes then I don't lose much pressure over the course of weeks.

Setting a tyre up tubeless and then putting it away makes it worse, if I ride it the same day it's better as the sealant has had chance to get to any small leaks.

I gave up on the rear on my e-trundler, to be fair it's not even a 'proper' tubeless tyre, it's a wired Kenda K-Rad and it has served admirably over the years and miles I've used it. It eventually went a bit porous about the sidewalls and not even teeming loads of Stans in could save it. Bunged a tube in and it's good for another thousand or so km over however many months it'll take to do it!

edit- I've found that proper tubeless tyres and decent sealant last for ages and only need topping up when they start dropping pressure over a week or so.

i always lose pressure with tubeless over time. sealant dries up too. this is even with DH casings - the lighter the casing the more top-ups and sealant needed though.

so its a case of top up and ride occasionally.

tubeless, for me, is not a fit and forget solution.

to be honest even tubes weep air over time on the kids bikes. i often have to check and pump them up if they've been left for a while.

tubeless, for me, is not a fit and forget solution.

This! I'd still rather have the initial faff of setting up and the bit of maintenance than the (potential) PITA of a punctured tube on my MTB. The e-trundler not so much cos it doesn't see much hard use.

Rim strips are far more reliable than tape.

For me, tubeless is mostly fit and forget - I just top up with air before every ride - but then I used to do that with tubes too as they also deflate over time. Ok, so I do put more sealant in about once a year. I do it for the lower rolling resistance, and the better grip and handling from lower pressures.

If its a road bike I’d ditch the idea of tubeless before I got as far as taping it the first time.

Works brilliantly with the right tyre/rim combo - of which there aren't that many.

Works brilliantly with the right tyre/rim combo – of which there aren’t that many.

Oh that I don't doubt and the two sets I've done (for other people) have worked just as fine and dandy as mtb ones.

Otoh, the benefits of road tubeless I'm far from sold on and even the best* tubeless is a faff compared with tubes.

*I miss my old UST setup. No tape, no sealant just mount inflate and ride. Admittedly the wheels were completely a pita to build but that was soon forgotten once they were done.
I blame stans for [s] revolutionising [/s] ruining tubeless.

Thanks,

It's on a gravel bike with 35c tyres.
The rear wheel is the same rim and tyre combo. It went up tubeless first time a year ago. It's had its sealant topped up, other than that it's been faultless.

I commute on it and was pumping the tyres up once a week, which was fine.

After 6 weeks it was flat, not unexpected.

When I pumped it up the sealant was leaking out of the rim. Specifically there is a wee hole in the rim on the side. Pumping it up again and it deflated.

I re sealed it last night, was a bit flat, pumped it up and rode 1/2 a mile to do an errand. When I got back, it went almost totally flat. Like 5psi flat.

Specifically there is a wee hole in the rim on the side.

The actual rim? Sealant is unlikely to fix that. Maybe try a hot glue gun or jb weld

https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/air-coming-out-hole-in-tubeless-carbon-rim-redo-tape/

Yes, the selant is getting past the tape into the rim. That hole is between the rim bed and the spoke bed.

Hence the question is it time to give up after 7 30min reinstalls? Tape off, selant carefully cleaned, tape carefully reapplied.

Is the tape wider than the rim width? Assuming it is, and that the tyre is therefore only sealing against the tape, there are only two locations for air to escape into the rim; (a) the tape overlap, (b) the valve hole.

To address the former, make sure you have sufficient overlap and that the tape is adhering to itself. It can help to install an inner tube for a while to help this bed down. When it's been left for a while, unseat one tyre bead, remove the tube and re-install the tubeless valve.

If air is escaping at the valve hole this often infers a poor seal between valve seat and rim. Make sure the rim is tidy around the hole with no folds or tears. A small rat-tail file can often make a good job of finishing off the tape here.

FWIW I always overlap tape opposite the valve as I reckon this achieves a better result.

Back in the garage for one more go before a tube.

Full clean, wipe with ethanol, second wipe, and left for a couple of min to dry fully.

I've used gorilla tape, slightly wider than the rim. It's gorilla tape in the rear rim that's been fine for a year.

On inspection the old valve gromit had dried selant under the gromit, so I've replaced that.

And..... Air came pissing out of the same hole in the rim, quick swish with selant and it's all gone silent.

I'll leave it and report back. I'm hopefull!

If air is escaping at the valve hole this often infers a poor seal between valve seat and rim. Make sure the rim is tidy around the hole with no folds or tears. A small rat-tail file can often make a good job of finishing off the tape here

And a sticky inner tube glueless patch thing.

If you only infrequently ride a bike then it would need the tyre pressure checking regardless of whether it had tubes or was tubeless. Inner tubes still leak

@dc1988 I ride the bike 5 times a week in term time. It gets pumped up on Mondays, helping me get pumped up for the week 🙂

My mountian bikes get used once or twice a week, they get the pressure checked every ride

If its a road bike I’d ditch the idea of tubeless before I got as far as taping it the first time.

My first year of trying road tubeless, very much a story of two parts. Initial set up was flawless for several months, then I decided to change valve stems to Miltek ones, which caused weeks of having to stop and pump up random tyres every ride - their valve stems just wouldn't seal properly to Zipp rims, or they'd seal then the lock nut would shake loose etc. Finally think (or hope) I've got it sorted.

Tubeless should hold air for a long time. All my properly set up ones do. If its going flat something is not right

Tubeless should hold air for a long time. All my properly set up ones do. If its going flat something is not right

I love that. Completely obvious, completely self evidently true and yet completely useless 🙂

I do my best sir

I’ll leave it and report back. I’m hopefull!

Going for a ride straight away is the best way to get the sealant to all the places it needs to get to.

The front rim on my Stumpjumper struggle to seal. I re-did it today.

The problem is the hole for the valve. It never seals very well with just a valve on its own. I've tried a few different ones.

The only way to get it to reliably seal is to cut a narrow step of inner tube, fold it over and put a small hole in it. Push the valve carefully through the hole and when the valve is seated and tightened up the compliance of the inner tube helps to create a good seal.
I'd definitely try this if you have air coming from the spoke holes and are confident the rim tape is good.

As others have mentioned. The tape needs to be just wider than the rim bed. The tyre beads need to sit on top of the tape, not next to it. Otherwise the only thing sealing the rim is the tape's adhesive, which will fail. Personally I'd avoid gorilla tape too. It's horrible to remove. Muc-off tape works great and is stickier and stretchier than Stan's/tesa

The valve hole can cause leaks. I always melt the hole round by poking a hot pick through it then twizzling around. This seems to seal much much better than a cut which can spread and again cause leaking. Obviously careful with carbon rims.

The quality of the valve is another thing. The cheap basic valves with fixed rubber never work that well. The aftermarket valves with removable rubbers are so much better as the rubber is soft enough to squash meaning you can get a really good seal. For example muc-off valves have 3 different rubbers, but the thicker cone works with every rim I've tried. push down on the top of the valve to squash rubber and tighten up the collar. Worth investing in decent valves.

Tried it on a Mavic 729 and Tesa tape.

The front is fine but the back has a bash and as such isn't as good. Going to try again but honestly ghetto looks like the way ahead. I'm only concerned about reliability so a bit of weight from a split tube is fine by me.

chrisdw

The quality of the valve is another thing. The cheap basic valves with fixed rubber never work that well. The aftermarket valves with removable rubbers are so much better as the rubber is soft enough to squash meaning you can get a really good seal. For example muc-off valves have 3 different rubbers, but the thicker cone works with every rim I’ve tried. push down on the top of the valve to squash rubber and tighten up the collar.

I literally just replaced the valves I was using with Muc Off ones for this very reason. I tried all three choices but they still wouldn't seal without an inner tube 'gasket' as described above.
To be fair the time are pretty battered and I think the hole in the rim is a bit larger than it needs to be.

I think the hole in the rim is a bit larger than it needs to be.

Why not drill them out and fit schraeder instead?