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alienating myself from some of the sycophants here;
I booked onto a skills course for the day to see what all the fuss was about, to say I was disappointed that all I was told was to "compress the bike into the take off or just prior to the drop" is somewhat of an understatement.
The instructor just stood there and watched all day (did not get on his bike to demo), he kept stating that you do not need to now how to manual or wheelie as these skills are too complicated to think about during these manoeuvres! However when his buddy "demoed" them he was quite clearly using his manual skills for jumps and drops. Surely being able to manual at will eliminates the need for spot on timing if trying to "pop off" drops - leading to face plants if you miss-time the pop.
I won't mention the cornering (berms) with outside foot down
Anyone else thought the same?
which skills course was that?
I won't mention the cornering (berms) with outside foot down
What's wrong with that?
There are many coaches and skills courses. Some are good. Some are not.
Which specific one are you speaking of?
I won't mention the cornering (berms) with outside foot down
#And your issue with this?
*edit* - doh, beaten to it.
Minaar is doing it wrong...
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Risk of catching pedal and no need in a berm as you should be perpendicular to the berm anyway, also surely shifting weight from one pedal to another will unsettle the bike?
I can post 100's of pics and videos showing top riders with level pedals, I'm sure there was a reason in this instance for the outside pedal down and indeed some top riders do it all the time.
Risk of catching pedal and no need in a berm as you should be perpendicular to the berm anyway, also surely shifting weight from one pedal to another will unsettle the bike?
It may not help a lot on a well banked berm but it's still a good habit to have.
It sounds like you had a less than top quality trainer. We did one with Chris Ball and Rowan Sorrell at Dirt School at it was exemplary. Given Chris coaches the Scottish DH riders that was inevitable. If you just go to some bloke who thinks he's fairly handy on a bike then you won't get the same experience.
And they taught us pedals level into berms, obviously. We did masses of stuff in the day- position on the bike and how to improve it, cornering, movement, manualing, all things to make you go faster rather than drops.
cyclelife - Member
Risk of catching pedal and no need in a berm as you should be perpendicular to the berm anyway, also surely shifting weight from one pedal to another will unsettle the bike?
if you were an expert already, why did you go on a skills course? 😉
fwiw you are 100% wrong on this one
a google image search of 'berms would cup DH', seems to show every rider with their outside foot down
Cheers Munro - sounds like these guys are more clued up!
Kimbers - We can all learn, as I said, I was keen to see what all the hype was about.
I think for me the important thing about skills courses is that you go away and practise lots,
they are not an immediate fix, just a way to show you how to start improving, if that makes sense?
I should have been clearer, sorry.
IME, with berms and so many other sports skills, there is not 'right' or 'wrong' there is 'what works' and 'what strategy on this berm/river/drop/climb?'.
It sounds like less than great coaching - but It also sounds like you knew lots already. Did the instructor pick up on your level of knowledge and skills through the day?
Minnaar doing it wrong. 😉
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they are not an immediate fix, just a way to show you how to start improving, if that makes sense?
I'd also agree with this, I spent 6 months riding like a bag of spanners after it as I focused on all the stuff I learnt. But eventually it clicked and my riding improved exponentially.
Matt, I'm sure you're correct, as from the pics you can see different techniques used by the same rider for different terrain, speed, conditions etc.
The instructor did not pick up on my experience and level of competence but used the same instruction for all the riders on the course. When I questioned his dismissal of the manual technique he just kept stating that he could ride anything and had never learned to manual. When you talk to top level rider they ALL talk about a manual being the kingpin to successful navigation over drops/jumps and rock gardens etc.
I have since practiced manuals at every opportunity and although I still can't hold them for long, I now feel more confident when approaching drops, roots etc knowing that I can get the front light or over anything in my way. I Can now do proper bunny hops as a result of this 🙂
I've had coaching tips (decent enough) from a "coach" who himself is not that great a rider. You can teach something without being a real expert (riding god) yourself.
Sounds like you were unfortunate to have a bad instructor.
I did a skills course a few years ago with Bob Campbell at Llandegla & it was brilliant.
4 of us did it together & we all felt that it really helped our riding & technique...
But, as mentioned above tons of practice after the course really helps to cement what you've learnt.....
I wouldn't let one experience put you off all, some instructors are excellent, in my experience.
Regarding corners, it depends on lots of things, how supportive the berm is, how fast you're going, ground conditions. For instance, you can catch/control a slide better with outside foot down, so I'd do that if conditions are loose/wet or the corner is flat or unsupportive.
However, you can pump and apply pressure for grip better with flat pedals, so I'd use that on hardpack or fast, supportive berms. No definitive answer.
When I questioned his dismissal of the manual technique he just kept stating that he could ride anything and had never learned to manual*.
It would be an odd rider indeed who couldn't manual [I]at all[/I] but who could tackle any drops they encounter, but that doesn't mean that manualling is the correct technique for drops. Most of the time you just hit it and keep your weight central, sometimes a bit of manual technique if its slow, sometimes a bit of jump technique if you want to boost it.
*As in he can't casual pop the front end up and manual for miles? or as in he can't get the front end up even for 1 metre?
Yeah, there's a difference between manualing and unweighting. Might just be a terminology ting you get me...
The best skills day I ever had only taught me about 5 things! However those things were exactly what I needed in order to progress my riding! I think sometimes when people are coached it is easy to expect to get masses of information, when sometimes what you actually need is simplicity! Also it might be that on a group skills day it isn't easy to give 1:1 instruction, hence the cheaper price!
For example when I went for my 1 day 1:1 course I was taught 4 mental questions to ask myself before I rode something, and one technique for getting air. The mental questions have become central to my riding and mean that I ride stuff better than before (still not very good compared to many I accept). He could have made himself sound amazing by telling me all sorts of stuff to focus on, and apply, and I would have left the day none the wiser!
However he did show me how to apply each of the methods, and rode the jumps and drops to demonstrate good and bad technique, I then realised that I can't translate words into actions but I can copy things, and also that he can ride at a level I can only imagine!
kayak23 - Yeah, there's a difference between manualing and unweighting. Might just be a terminology ting you get me...
Yeah I can't manual but I can lift the front end long enough for any trail obstacle I've encounter.
There is a mix of cornering techniques among the top WC riders. I once saw a pic of Peaty and I think it was Mick Hannah near the start of a Dual Slalom race entering the same corner, which was being used in the article to highlight this point. Mick had his outside foot slightly lower and Peaty had his outside foot all the way down.
Jedi told me to weight the outside foot through a corner, bermed or not, and if it's good enough for him.........
Why would disagreeing with your point of view on an internet forum make someone a sycophant?
Because first rule of STWClub is if you can't ride like a god then get thee to a coaching day.
Any instructor worth their salt will have a lesson plan in place that would have been discussed ahead of arriving at the venue with the student. Through that, the instructor can gain an understanding of the students objectives, manage their expectations and/or amend the lesson plan to suit the students. The bigger the group, the smaller the scope for tailoring the course and therefore in some cases it might be necessary direct them to a more appropriate course.
This also has the benefit of providing a paper trail so that if it goes belly-up BKB style you have something to put in front of the judge to show clear processes and procedures (they love a paper trail because it shows evidence of managing risk etc).
Sounds dull for the instructor - yup, but their job is to make sure you the client leaves having had a fantastic learning experience and hopefully eager to learn and improve even more.
while you may not wish to name the coach/organisation, do you know if the person was a BC accredited coach ? sounds a bit odd...
Here's a manual
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If you're ever in that position on the bike when doing a jump, then you probably need to go on a skills course.
Why would disagreeing with your point of view on an internet forum make someone a sycophant?
The OP is suggesting people on this forum are sycophantic towards the coach he saw. Shouldn't be too hard to guess.
If I'm correct, then I've visited the same guy - and he teaches you what he thinks you need to learn, not what you think you need to.
You have to get over that if you're gonna get on with him and get something out of the session (which I did).
Manualling off a jump or drop is terrible technique. Outside pedal down is the best foot position for longer/bigger turns, pedals level is better for quick changes that you want to pump more but that's more a pumping than cornering technique.
Sounds like this student knew just enough to think he knew lots but not enough to know how much he didn't know. A wasted learning opportunity...
cyclelife - MemberÂ
"compress the bike into the take off or just prior to the drop"
he kept stating that you do not need to now how to manual or wheelie as these skills are too complicated to think about during these manoeuvres!
I won't mention the cornering (berms) with outside foot down
All the above I don't see much wrong with.
Sounds like you've gone with an agenda and aren't trusting things that may be challenging what you've been used to.
chakaping - Member
If I'm correct, then I've visited the same guy - and he teaches you what he thinks you need to learn, not what you think you need to.
Still none the wiser 😀
chiefgrooveguru - Member
Outside pedal down is the best foot position for longer/bigger turns, pedals level is better for quick changes that you want to pump more but that's more a pumping than cornering technique.
Pretty much what I was taught by two different people, one who's incredibly well thought of on here.
Still none the wiser
one who's incredibly well thought of on here.
😉