Arggghh!! Bottom he...
 

  You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more

[Closed] Arggghh!! Bottom headset cup has just dropped out!!

42 Posts
23 Users
0 Reactions
307 Views
Posts: 3508
Free Member
Topic starter
 

After a pretty poo day at work I thought some tinkering would clear the head and take my mind of things, but No. Taking of the forks to do a service on them and the lower headset cup has just dropped out of the frame on my V3 Nomad. Not what I need when I'm booked on a trip in 5 weeks!!!

Trip to the bike shop tomorrow to see what they and SC say about it. In the meantime, has anybody heard or had this issue?? I've googled what I can think of, but nothing is coming up, or maybe my google foo is just poor.

Cheers
Grumpy Carlos


 
Posted : 20/08/2019 6:55 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Definitely the cup, not just the bearing or is it the race on the fork that's got stuck up there and dropped out?

Very unusual for the cup to drop out as they're tough to press in and need a lot of effort to get out.

Maybe there's damage somewhere, frame or the cup. If it fell out I should imagine you can easily pop it back in but likely to come out again.


 
Posted : 20/08/2019 7:05 pm
Posts: 3508
Free Member
Topic starter
 

100% the cup.

This one isn't tough to press in anymore, it literally drops in if you get the angle right. Cup and frame look okay, but agreed defo something not right


 
Posted : 20/08/2019 7:09 pm
Posts: 16216
Full Member
 

Doesn't sound good.

Perhaps the head tube is ovalised/ too big?

Standard, from factory headset fitted?


 
Posted : 20/08/2019 7:15 pm
 Del
Posts: 8226
Full Member
 

Crabron or ally, just out of interest?
The shop might just try some loctite 638. It's 'a' solution, but would not be my preferred, for sure if it's a recent frame. I guess the big deal is the timescale. If bought as complete I would hope the shop would help.
Good luck.


 
Posted : 20/08/2019 7:33 pm
Posts: 6980
Full Member
 

Sounds a lot like a flared headtube really, wouldn’t get my hopes up for a positive response from the shop. As mentioned above though, loctite 638 might be able to ‘fix’ it


 
Posted : 20/08/2019 7:36 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Another solution is a shim from a drink can. Cut a strip, wrap it round the lower cup and knock it in.


 
Posted : 20/08/2019 8:49 pm
Posts: 11486
Full Member
 

My old steel hardtail did this. Debated getting the frame repaired, oversize/deeper headset cup/shims etc, and then thought sod it, bought some bearing fit from Halfords, bunged it all back together and have not thought about it for the last year 🙂


 
Posted : 20/08/2019 8:54 pm
Posts: 3508
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Frame is a CC carbon and about 2 yrs old so hoping for a better solution than loctite or a shim!!

Originally bought from the shop who fitted the Hope headset and built it all.up as it was a custom build


 
Posted : 20/08/2019 9:13 pm
Posts: 3224
Free Member
 

I'd be shooting for an out of tolerance warranty front triangle assuming the cup isn't the culprit


 
Posted : 20/08/2019 10:27 pm
Posts: 1352
Free Member
 

SC will look after you. Seen this on another frame recently and they are awaiting a warranty replacement.


 
Posted : 20/08/2019 10:32 pm
Posts: 7561
Free Member
 

We used to say just fit an FSA PIG headset, but I think things have moved on a bit.
Still.

Bearing fit will work if it all goes wrong in the warranty dept.


 
Posted : 20/08/2019 10:40 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Could just be a unicorn combination of a few thou oversized headtube and a similarly undersized headset cup.

I would just use bearing fit...


 
Posted : 20/08/2019 10:56 pm
Posts: 6243
Free Member
 

As per rick Carl

Happy shiny new frame for you, hope they sort you out quick assume it's like fro like nomad so they should have stock of them I'd imagine and all your kit maybe bar the shock can go straight across (think even X2 may be able to changed size to fit but could be wrong)


 
Posted : 21/08/2019 6:49 am
Posts: 6980
Full Member
 

Some big promises being made here! Hopefully it works out that way but bear in mind that this sort of thing can happen for other reasons


 
Posted : 21/08/2019 8:28 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

You're totally covered under warranty so you should definitely get a new front triangle if your the original owner. I can't see the Hope headset cup being the issue.


 
Posted : 21/08/2019 9:03 am
Posts: 6243
Free Member
 

mashr - i'd almost certainly put my life on it they replace the front triangle (if they have stock of that frame from 16 (which I doubt they will tbh), but im fairly sure he will get a whole new nomad current gen as a replacement, santa cruz may get slagged for what ever reason but they are bloody ace with warranty stuff, probably a little too so in some cases ive heard of (this isn't one of them, if the cup wont stay in the frame is buggered, end of!)

good luck - hope its quick and you can sort your shock on to a new one 🙂


 
Posted : 21/08/2019 9:51 am
Posts: 6980
Full Member
 

Fair enough, but a flared headtube is not always a warranty issue. If SC turn round and say that this is user error (e.g. running with a loose headset, crash damage) then they're not likely to be so generous.

I just wouldn't go promising new frames at this point even if it is the likely outcome


 
Posted : 21/08/2019 10:03 am
 DezB
Posts: 54367
Free Member
 

Matter of interest - how does a carbon headtube get flared? Does the cup get stretched and this effects the carbon it's pressed into? IANAE, but I find it puzzling that this old problem would occur with carbon.


 
Posted : 21/08/2019 10:40 am
Posts: 6243
Free Member
 

mashr

Member
Fair enough, but a flared headtube is not always a warranty issue. If SC turn round and say that this is user error (e.g. running with a loose headset, crash damage) then they’re not likely to be so generous.
I just wouldn’t go promising new frames at this point even if it is the likely outcome

as I said id put my life on it they'll replace his frame, I aren't promising him any Im suggesting and being extremely confident that they will replace it, they do stand by their customers and product, the frames a few years old so wont have been fitted incorrectly given I know the shop he's had it from, its happened on a few frames all of which have been warrantied


 
Posted : 21/08/2019 10:56 am
Posts: 426
Free Member
 

If SC turn round and say that this is user error (e.g. running with a loose headset, crash damage) then they’re not likely to be so generous.

Out of interest (and I’m not necessarily arguing) but how does running a loose headset flare the headtube?


 
Posted : 21/08/2019 11:02 am
Posts: 251
Full Member
 

how does running a loose headset flare the headtube?

Seized headset bearing causing the cup to rotate in the frame could cause issues.


 
Posted : 21/08/2019 11:04 am
Posts: 6980
Full Member
 

Batter the inside of the cup enough and it can deform, plus what wwaswas says for a different failure mode


 
Posted : 21/08/2019 11:06 am
 DezB
Posts: 54367
Free Member
 

Seized headset bearing causing the cup to rotate in the frame could cause issues

Ah, that makes more sense.


 
Posted : 21/08/2019 11:49 am
Posts: 99
Free Member
 

Regarding loose headsets damaging headtubes.

When I took my canyon frame to them to check a crack they said the headset was loose. They explained that rubbing it loose would cause it to knock back and forth under braking, which would eventually flare the headtube.

The headtube was actually fine, but the headset had written through the steerer and as they found the headset had been badly fitted in the factory they replaced the forks.


 
Posted : 21/08/2019 12:03 pm
Posts: 44146
Full Member
 

I ovalised the headtube on my tandem from running it with a loose headset - effectively as you go on and off the brakes you get a hammering effect back and forward as the fork moves in the headset than bashes on it as it hits the back or front.

Cured with bearing fit and a deep insertion headset


 
Posted : 21/08/2019 12:23 pm
Posts: 785
Free Member
 

A friend had the same on the same frame. No replacements left so new frame. Not so great as it needed new shock, new back wheel etc as parts don’t transfer direct.


 
Posted : 21/08/2019 12:29 pm
 DezB
Posts: 54367
Free Member
 

I ovalised the headtube on my tandem

Carbon tandem? Cool.


 
Posted : 21/08/2019 12:47 pm
Posts: 3508
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Quick update - Initial response off the shop was a positive one. They'll contact SC/Jungle and will get back to me.


 
Posted : 21/08/2019 2:46 pm
Posts: 251
Full Member
 

Cool, I hope you get it sorted at no cost but equally, some of the 'I'll eat my hat' comments felt a bit ott.


 
Posted : 21/08/2019 2:49 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

I doubt someone with a pricey custom nomad is dumb enough to ride around with a loose headset, unless he is Harry main.


 
Posted : 21/08/2019 9:41 pm
Posts: 6581
Free Member
 

I doubt someone with a pricey custom nomad is dumb enough to ride around with a loose headset

Really? I see stuff like that all of the time.


 
Posted : 21/08/2019 9:44 pm
Posts: 3508
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Grest start to the weekend. I had a chat with the shop earlier and some of you were right as I've now got a 6 week wait for a new frame.


 
Posted : 23/08/2019 9:21 pm
Posts: 16216
Full Member
 

Use the frame in the meantime mate unless it has to be sent off now??


 
Posted : 23/08/2019 10:26 pm
Posts: 3508
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Poopdcoop - yeah can use it in the meantime. Shop pressed and bonded in the cup, so I've been told to leave it 48hrs before riding and that should see me through.👍


 
Posted : 24/08/2019 6:54 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Just curious, you getting mk4 nomad, if so you lucky bar steward, well apart from the metric shock and boost rear, fingers crossed for shock included.


 
Posted : 24/08/2019 7:58 pm
Posts: 16216
Full Member
 

carlos

Member
Poopdcoop – yeah can use it in the meantime. Shop pressed and bonded in the cup, so I’ve been told to leave it 48hrs before riding and that should see me through

That's great, good news bud.👍


 
Posted : 24/08/2019 8:42 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Had exact same issue with exactly the same combination of a Nomad 3 CC and hope headset. Suspect warranty route best option (I didn't but have since had a warranty replacement frame for a different issue). I just put in a Chris king lower assembly with carbon paste as the insert into the frame is about twice the length and so was gripping fresh head tube. Worked fine. If they offer a warranty replacement then mine was a Nomad 4 and it included a shock. Belter of a replacement.


 
Posted : 25/08/2019 8:12 am
Posts: 2814
Free Member
 

Just noticed my lower bearing cup seems to be rotating slowly within the headset. It didn't fall out the other week when I had a general clean-up, and it's an old second hand steel frame, so warranty replacement isn't going to happen.

When you say 'bearing fit,' what are you using to bond cups in place - Loctite 603? 641?


 
Posted : 03/09/2019 2:50 pm
Posts: 7561
Free Member
 

Chris King always used to be the most undersized cups out there. I think they do it to not preload the bearings on insertion or something.


 
Posted : 03/09/2019 3:05 pm
 tish
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Had the same thing last week with my Bronson CC 2.1 and Hope headset. Having spoke to Dan at Jungle they are replacing it with the V3, plus the shock, but it’s a 5-6 week wait. I was also told to keep using it.


 
Posted : 03/09/2019 8:34 pm
Posts: 3508
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Tish

Having spoke to Dan at Jungle they are replacing it with the V3, plus the shock, but it’s a 5-6 week wait.

That's a result. Which shock and is that also FOC or will you have to pay for that?


 
Posted : 04/09/2019 10:57 am
 tish
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

He said it was the one with the climb switch, that comes with the cc model.
I’ve been told it’s FOC so I can’t grumble really, they’ve been good.


 
Posted : 04/09/2019 11:46 am

6 DAYS LEFT
We are currently at 95% of our target!