[Closed] Areas that are ripe for MTB development....

Goyt Valley, Derbyshire.

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A one way tarmac climb up the middle with a load of trails off to each side. There is SOME riding there - Forestry Commission have largely been fairly accommodating with some built DH trails and in many respects it keeps the MTBers off to one side out the way of the walkers (popular tourist destination) but there's always been a bit of an uneasy peace.

British Cycling approached the landowners with a request for the Olympic XC team to use some of the trails for training in the run up to the London Olympics and got a flat no. But the area has such potential and some defined MTB trails and segregated walking trails would really help it. Could do with a cafe hut down there too, that'd be nice.

Kinnoul hill - I know it's littered with trails, but a few signs, a few separations lower down of walkers and riders. You could have a city centre trail head near the station and park (as they do for the Enduro) rather than the car park half way up.

Callander & Aberfoyle area are crying out for full on MTB, gravel and road routes to be marked and mapped, and again some separation from walking trails.

Imo, most trail centres and rides should now focus on rides from train stations, cities and towns. A few exceptions to keep up rural tourism.

Imo, most trail centres and rides should now focus on rides from train stations, cities and towns.

Agree completely. But the conundrum is that it is these places where people resist trail building/use, as it’s where they do their local walks.

Glentress 😉

Lowther in the middle of winter is a truely grim place/freezer to be

Aberfoyle would make a huge amount of sense, but only if I’m being selfish. It’s busy enough as it is, but could do with more work to really make it a smaller version of the Golfie (with less grip and shinier rocks)

Pentlands - not sure what happened to the plans for the old Lothianburn gold course. Plans went silent

There's a place in North Wiltshire...

Holden Hill in Devon could be the next FOD, but over the years they’ve never managed to get their plan sorted. There’s a lot of space and a lot of drop but somehow it’s never worked out.

It’s Forestry Commission as well I believe.

Also there must be somewhere around Bath that could become a Bike park or Trail centre

Goyt Valley, Derbyshire.

Interesting, are the current trails proper DH? Worth visiting? (circa 1 hour drive). It appears there's a decent drop in height.

Goyt Valley, Derbyshire.

Yup would be ideal but won't happen. Both the gamekeeper and on-site land-manager hate mountain bikers, so won't do anything other than hamper any kind of change.

The low hanging fruit has been done but not exhausted! There's about 4-5 woods (not as easily accessible/harder work) that have nothing in them at all. There's a ridge line that runs the full length of Fernilee Reservoir from "The Street" but would need a lot of labour. You could have a trail network that would span from Shining Tor to Taxal with BPW style multi-splits at halfway and two thirds points.

The recently felled sections are prime for about 3 straight through trails from the top, dual slalom line through the ferns (which are about to die off), splitting to about 3-4 alternates midway down, all merging to a traverse, connecting the strip of woods (similar to Cascadias Tushy, maybe 2 lines in there) out to the bottom road. It would be fairly unobtrusive, decent length runs with alternate lines, in a quiet part of the forest where you only see the odd person, on a sunny day when the car parks are full.

A lot of graft though!

I can think of many, many places that would be perfect that are currently golf courses. 😉

There has been much talk of developing some sort of hub in the Aviemore/Glenmore area. It's been on the DMBinS plans for a couple of years and got as far as an ideas meeting last year with lots of the locals inputting suggestions to what could be done. Think a combination of bike-park trails and some signposted "natural" routes. The creation of a local Trail Association has helped as it already has a good relationship with local landowners and forestry etc.

There is also a possibility of some sort of trails coming off the Northern Corries in the area currently owned by HIE for skiing. Unlikely it would be from the plateau area but possibly in the Ciste or lower in Coire Cas, from the half-way station. A run from there down to Glenmore would require the co-operation of FLS too but isn't impossible.

Rivington/ horwich, Wigan/haigh hall.

Both got LOADS of potential. When will councils realise that if you want outside visitors to spend money in your town and if you want to avoid bike/hiker conflict,,, Just build a few proper tracks FFS.

That all sounds perfectly reasonable until you learn how just many folk refuse even to pay for parking at the likes of Glentress.

Stoke-on-Trent, The Trentham estate, the bit between the golf course and the M6.

I've said it before: I think Clyde Muirsheil needs some trails. The area south of population centres (Greenock) would, surely, be hugely welcome and big benefit to locals and 'tourists' alike.

Its got a lot of perfectly sized hills that are crying out for trails.

Dunkeld already has a mishmash of natural and semi professionally built trails. An effort to build a proper trailhead with decent facilities would raise the game even further. Given that it’s on a sleeper route and there are the full range of accommodation options in the town and around, it would be perfect for development.

More of South Wales. Keep it coming.

Woburn back woods..?

I’ve said it before: I think Clyde Muirsheil needs some trails.

Oooh, good call.

It's a great location given its proximity to Glasgow, but it's not half boggy. Would take a lot of work.

Kerry.

Sennybridge training area has huge swathes of land that barely gets touched in favour of the more popular areas of it. Could easily fit a whole load of stuff in there. Bits of the estate get used for hillclimbs so there is some precedent

That all sounds perfectly reasonable until you learn how just many folk refuse even to pay for parking at the likes of Glentress

So true.

£20k camper, £5k eBike and £150 7mesh jacket means they are now skint to be fair.

Also there must be somewhere around Bath that could become a Bike park or Trail centre

Already there, do as many runs as you want by just taking the Park and ride bus to Lansdown...

Cardiff... well since local lock down. We must be the only County in South Wales without one!

Slightly more seriously, we've got plenty of MTB places in South Wales now, but if I had to complain, it's that we've lacked a bit of vision. We've got the space and hills (if not the elevation) to build something to rival PDS. I guess if anyone knew BPW was going to be as successful as it's been, they might have picked a larger site.

Also there must be somewhere around Bath that could become a Bike park

Isn't Windhill bikepark near Bath?

In North Wales, either Llanberis or Bethesda. Both have had interest and I hear there was some advanced discussion for Llanberis. For Bethesda especially, there's a good-to-go model in Antur Stiniog. Access and uplift is already in place if the Zip World side was chosen.

Be lovely to see some development at Rivi - some work on the San Marino descent and a different way back up, it's already a busy area round there though, and the landowners don't really seem that keen.

@P-Jay agree - there's so much land here that's really not being used for much else, there's easy access to the top and bottom of the hills, it's easy for everyone to get to from wherever, and it's easy to get people out to hospital when they break themselves. You can even come by train.

The Bedwas colliery site would be a great start. It's just derelict land now.

Not on the scale of inners but I think there are lots of possibilities for small bike parks (think windhill) all over the south / southwest. There are many area with better topography than Windhill in the same rough area of North / centeal Dorset, east Somerset etcc that could be very popular

There are many area with better topography than Windhill in the same rough area of North / centeal Dorset,

North Dorset already has Okeford Hill bikepark.

There used to be official DH trails at Melbury Abbas too and they ran races etc.

Lowther in the middle of winter is a truely grim place/freezer to be

True, but same can be said of all the other 7 stanes once they get harvested.

I'd purposefully suggested this area, as it's not in a forest, no harvesting, no closures due to another woodland disease, and much easier to plan and build descents.

From Lowther hill down to the village is north facing, so generally sheltered.

Considering how busy Swinley and Cannock get, having decent trail options near where people live is what will grow MTB, ,muxh as I love Wales and The Peak, they're really not 'day trip' destinations for a huge chunk of the UK population.

I'm always struck by how good a shortish Red/Blue loop from Ashridge monument could be, making good use of the elevation Tom's hill gives, starting and finishing in the (excellent) Brownlow cafe, going down the side of the hill away from the popular walkers paths.

It would need to be pretty well surfaced as Ashridge mud is a special kind of claggy horridness but with it's proximity to the M25/A41 it would be hugely popular.

Arguably that's a good reason not to do it, area's busy enough already and the wealthy older locals may object, the National Trust are sadly nowhere near as pro-MTB as the FC.

The Peak, they’re really not ‘day trip’ destinations for a huge chunk of the UK population.

er - right in the middle of manchester,sheffield, leeds , birmingham ,derby, nottingham- I'd say its perfectly positioned for a big chunk of the uk population

North Dorset already has Okeford Hill bikepark.

Yeah, I haven't made it there yet but it's opening times are only weekends makes it hard

Problem with England is so much is off limits. Large chunks of woodlands on steep hills and fenced off as part of a big estate. Fair amount like that in Devon outside of Dartmoor. When I moved to Surrey I was quite surprised how much is accessible.

Getting bike parks and trail centres built though requires a lot of work and land owner willing to open up the land, and then is it open to general public or private park. Easier maybe where there is already public access but then you've got the battle with walking groups and conservationists.

+1 there needs to be the unofficial first really to build the local scene.

I suppose the big question is who is going to play for all these special playgrounds for mtbs?

I'm amazed that there aren't more in the South, around the M25. Swinley and Bedgebury are always really busy.

Something along/off the North Downs would be good or even something like Dirt Factory could work well.

er – right in the middle of manchester,sheffield, leeds , birmingham ,derby, nottingham- I’d say its perfectly positioned for a big chunk of the uk population

All of which combined have less than 3 million people, so roughly a third of the population of Greater London on it's own.

My original point stands.

Assuming we're discussing mountain biking here, where are the mountains near Greater London?

I suppose the big question is who is going to play for all these special playgrounds for mtbs?

Don't be coming in here with all your grounded, practical thoughts.

All of which combined have less than 3 million people, so roughly a third of the population of Greater London on it’s own.

There are 10 million people living in the Midlands and more than seven million in NW England.

I'd guesstimate more than half of those are within an hour or so of the Peak District.

Which is why the place is so bloody rammed.

Bit of a pointless argument though, it's not about having trails here vs there. There are already trails in loads of places - it's about which ones might get formalised.

@scotroutes

Do there need to be mountains? Flyup 417 in Gloucester has little in terms of elevation but seems to be doing pretty well.

I’ve said it before: I think Clyde Muirsheil needs some trails. The area south of population centres (Greenock) would, surely, be hugely welcome and big benefit to locals and ‘tourists’ alike.

Its got a lot of perfectly sized hills that are crying out for trails.

Definitely - I sometimes take a wee spin up to Windy Hill or Misty Law for an hour or so & every time it annoys me to ride back down the road (even if it is at warp speed), not necessarily proper trailcentre runs but something rideable off road at least...

Assuming we’re discussing mountain biking here, where are the mountains near Greater London?

You don't need mountains for mountain biking, silly!

All of which combined have less than 3 million people, so roughly a third of the population of Greater London on it’s own.

My original point stands.

Greater Manchester alone has a population of 2.8 million

I suppose the big question is who is going to play for all these special playgrounds for mtbs?

The EU! Oh wait. The Brexit windfall from leaving the EU! Oh wait... All the people holidaying in the UK after Corona virus...

I suppose the big question is who is going to play for all these special playgrounds for mtbs?

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/placestoride

There's a £15 million legacy fund from the UCI World Championships which is still open. Needs match funding, so it's not exactly free money, but the idea that there's absolutely nothing out there for MTB is a bit misleading.

I’m always struck by how good a shortish Red/Blue loop from Ashridge monument could be, making good use of the elevation Tom’s hill gives, starting and finishing in the (excellent) Brownlow cafe, going down the side of the hill away from the popular walkers paths.

Good call.

I use to live in Bucks and there's loads of riding all along that ridge, from Dunstable thru to the M40. But putting something on the Monument-Albury slope would be good winch & plummet.

Assuming we’re discussing mountain biking here, where are the mountains near Greater London?

Which is more important for cycling, mountains, or people?

Scotland gets masses of investment as it ticks tourism boxes.

Swinley get's sod all investment as it's just enough to keep the hoards from spreading out into the SSSI's.

Back when Swinley first got official trails there was some daft stat floating around that it got more visitors in the opening week than Glentress gets in a year. but it doesn't tick a return o investment box for someone as you don't "visit" Swinley, you just live near it.

Same story in the Surrey Hills, absolutely heaving, but the development is just enough to try and contain it rather than meet any sort of demand.

All of which combined have less than 3 million people, so roughly a third of the population of Greater London on it’s own.

My original point stands.

You said

they’re really not ‘day trip’ destinations for a huge chunk of the UK population.

I'm just countering that they really are day trip destinations for a huge chunk of the UK population.

greater manchester = 2.8million
west midlands = 5.9 million
east midlands = 4.8 million
south yorkshire = 1.4 million
TOTAL = 14.9 million plus all the others who arent included in those numbers above , but who are still within an hours drive.

I suspect what you meant was that the peak is not really a day trip destination for people who dont live near it - which is obvious really .

The peak is crying out for some kind of trail centre or bike park , especially given that its in the middle of a vast chunk of the UK population and has the terrain to make a fantastic one, but it'll never happen because the walkers (and their lobby) wont allow it on 'their' land

I'm not sure crying out for a trail centre is the right thing...maybe crying out for some waymarked signage to help direct bikers around would be better.

I'm well aware that MTB has changed since the early days and a lot of people want the simplicity of a trail centre (do we run the risk of ghetto-ising mountain biking with more designated area?), plenty others like just jumping on a bike and following their noses, exploring the hills, countryside or not afraid to join a few areas of singletrack up with some road miles in between. For the former, they want more of those, for the latter, they don't really need anything else.

So depending on who is arguing the case with the people who make the decisions, it may work in favour of former or latter. And the most important starter would be to address the land access rules in England and Wales as they do seem rather out of date and not really helping.

Either way, some more signposting would probably go a long way for most people...and signage probably costs a lot less than building something specific.

Lots of old quarries in the Peak that could be re-purposed into a trail centre

It won't happen though due to Draconian NP planning and NIMBYs

I’m not sure crying out for a trail centre is the right thing…maybe crying out for some waymarked signage to help direct bikers around would be better.

I think where you live is important too. Some area have loads of good natural trails due to a combination of what row currently exist, local scene and topology.

Others really benefit from some form of trail center if they are lacking in the above.

This is without going into the different types of riding of more jumpy Vs explorey

Mortimer Forest, Ludlow (already got Hopton)

Edit - Wales blew it big time when they backed down on access changes (despite what's said - TPTB will make sure it never gets further, serious attention for a generation).

It doesn't have to be trail centers.

There are plenty of people whose idea of "Mountain Biking" is pottering along an easy path with a bit of scenery thrown in.

90% of people aren't looking for the next Golfie or BPW. More development of existing trail networks to turn them into scenic routes and loops might be all that's needed.

Something like the French do with VTT routes dotted all over the place

It doesn’t have to be trail centers.

Agreed.

90% of people aren’t looking for the next Golfie or BPW

Disagree, impossible to quantify for obvious reasons, but the vast majority of people I ride with aren't really particularly bothered about riding big loops, it's all about the downs. Bike Park Lowthers would do me, no need for uplift or lifts, as we'll all be on ebikes. 🙂

It doesn’t have to be trail centers.

There are plenty of people whose idea of “Mountain Biking” is pottering along an easy path with a bit of scenery thrown in.

90% of people aren’t looking for the next Golfie or BPW. More development of existing trail networks to turn them into scenic routes and loops might be all that’s needed.

Something like the French do with VTT routes dotted all over the place

As referenced above, this is part of the idea around an Aviemore/Glenmore hub. There is a good network of routes, it's just that most tourists (and uninformed locals) stick to the same few honeypots. Letting folk get a better idea of what it's like to get further afield might spur more onto longer rides too.

Down south, New Forest. Might have an issue with the locals though

Glentrool is perhaps a good example of a VTT route. Mind you not everywhere has Galloway forest as a backdrop

The peak is crying out for some kind of trail centre or bike park , especially given that its in the middle of a vast chunk of the UK population and has the terrain to make a fantastic one, but it’ll never happen because the walkers (and their lobby) wont allow it on ‘their’ land

I was going to write this yesterday and then thought it'd get a load of responses saying that the Peak District is stuffed with trails, ride those.

Well it is and isn't - there are some very well known trails (The Beast, Cavedale, Jacob's Ladder etc) but there's actually a rather sparse "network" and the trails that do exist are mostly wide rock/rubble-strewn trails, many with lots of gates.
It's either one end of the scale (rocky, rubbly, fast, technical) or the other (flat, smooth, old railway line), there's very little in between and certainly extremely limited flowing singletrack!

Might also address some of the parking issues in Hope, Edale and Hayfield which are the three Peaks locations that everyone seems to head towards.