[Closed] Are we going to see a 3" tyre craze (that requires new frame, fork and wheels)?

No. Too heavy. If you want more grip than 2.3 run Procore.

I should think not, I thought fat bikes were for wallys. (Run away)

I hope so. I had great fun on a Krampus out in the States. Looking forward to picking up a cheap one when the next "next greatest thing" is declared.

Anything is possible these days. Marketing men are constantly bringing out new stuff that we don't need but have to buy.

I blame the internet...

Pretty sure Bikeradar had an 'article' recently on how 27.5+ would be the future and was the perfect middleground between 27.5 and 29.

Personally, I just built up another 26".

It's the 650b way- first fatbikes create great interest in a new thing, but lots of people are scared off because it's too big a change for them. So along comes a new standard that offers a fraction of the benefits, and most of the downsides.

The ideal biking "innovation" provides novelty but very little actual change, because that scares people off, but yet has to deliver the industry's need for maximum new parts. Notfat bikes tick all the boxes.

Are we?

Meh. I remember nokian gazzaloddis

I'm currently pondering a custom B+ frame. I reckon it would be my ideal bikepacker.

It's the 650b way- first fatbikes create great interest in a new thing, but lots of people are scared off because it's too big a change for them. So along comes a new standard that offers a fraction of the benefits, and most of the downsides.

The ideal biking "innovation" provides novelty but very little actual change, because that scares people off, but yet has to deliver the industry's need for maximum new parts. Notfat bikes tick all the boxes.

I think that's being a little harsh.
I own a Krampus, and also being tempted by a fat bike I've ridden a couple. IMHO they're very different beasts, aimed at doing very different things.
I'd never think that a 3" tyre would give the same float on snow that a 4"+ tyre would, but I live in Devon where snow is a rarity! I've ridden the Krampus on sand, and with the pressure down at 8-9 psi you get a decent amount of grip, but again a fatty would do better.
However, take it on tight, rooty singletrack and it comes into it's own. On the same trails a fatty felt cumbersome and slow. The 29+ tyres also roll surprisingly well on road and I'm happy doing 35+ milers of mixed road and trails, something I suspect would be a lot harder work on a larger, lower pressure tyres.

scotroutes - Member
I'm currently pondering a custom B+ frame. I reckon it would be my ideal bikepacker.
POSTED 37 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

I'm a bit further on that that 🙂

Did hear the other day in the LBS from a Trek rep the next thing is going to be 29ER+ that's what he call it.Bit strange when MTB sales are declining.

Is "the next big thing" down to logical progression or salesmen clutching at straws.

People are actually quite bizarre ...

A tyre width a tad wider than the norm and its comments in the streets ('FK. Me what the fks that ') from a bloke with a pushchair an kid.

Can't be assed to ride me windcheetah any more that would probably stop traffic. Or theyed get the pitchforks out.

[img] [/img]

Anybody actually tried Procore yet? It's 179 Euros for a kit for two wheels on the Schwalbe website and then of course you have to buy two tyres so I don't think I will be among the earlier adopters!

The Krampus has been out for nearly three years, it's hardly the new and latest thing (it is great though 😀 ). A small number of other manufacturers have brought out their own 29+ bikes that's all, and many of us have been experimenting in our sheds and garages to see how big 3" tyres will work with our various weekend rides. Have we as an MTB community seriously become that cynical that any new design feature that might create a new standard is seen as marketing bullish!t ??!?!

As usual, I expect the fat bike haters will be out to hate the semi-fatty's too though.

In my experience it's not the extra half inch tyre width that makes the difference with 29+ / 3" tyres, it's the huge volume they have compared with their 2.4" brethren. The extra air volume gives a completely different ride feel over big 2.4" tyres. They are also a simple swap for many 29er hardtail owners and can be tried and tested for a relatively small outlay.

As always, if you don't like it don't buy it, and just ride your bike.

Procore works with any tubeless tire and a 23mm+ IRD.

People I know who have tried it say it's like going from a single ply 60a to dual ply 40a.

@Paceman I seriously don't get the fatbike haters. What is their deal? I mean it's one thing to not like the ride of the bike, it's another to just keep bashing the bike online. Just what is the point???

[quote=brant ]

scotroutes - Member
I'm currently pondering a custom B+ frame. I reckon it would be my ideal bikepacker.
POSTED 37 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

I'm working from the Vee Rubber Trax Fatty 3.25in and smaller.

For the love of God. Buy a fatbike or a bloody motorcycle. Well be at 40lb trail bikes before the decade is out !
Then the marketing guys will "invent" the 22lb bike and off we go again !

P.s I'm not a fatbike hater !

scotroutes - Member
brant »
scotroutes - Member
I'm currently pondering a custom B+ frame. I reckon it would be my ideal bikepacker.
POSTED 37 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

I'm a bit further on that that
Cool. What tyres/rims are you planning for? Having seen how long it's taken for a selection of 29er+ tyres to be made available I was reckoning I was in no hurry for a frame
POSTED 11 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

brant - Member

I'm working from the Vee Rubber Trax Fatty 3.25in and smaller.

Sounds interesting Brant

26er + anyone? after the arrival of surly's instigator 2.0 i'm tempted to stick a trials rim and a 2.75 dirt wizard on the old inbred i've got knocking about....

Spesh Enduro 29 er with 650b wheels and 3inch + tyres. It rode like a trials bike...loads of grip especially on rocks and roots, climbing UP techy trails was amazing. Very light (bike weighed 28 pounds), rolled fast on the roads.

Bike was very quiet on the descents in Molini, the tyres ran 0.9 bar so small bump was taken care of by the tyres and the forks were wound in a bit harder.... only thing I didn't like that's its near impossible to make the rear end drift.. (which can be a good thing for trail preservation)

So now seriously considering this setup, with a standard set of 29 er wheels too. I am a an MTB guide in the Italian Alps and I don't get sucked in by fads but this seriously impressed me..

[img] ?oh=62e8b3ff198e92f4de6eced432e37e5f&oe=54DEEC66[/img]
[img] ?oh=835ced3210b064194ee820dd4dd47575&oe=5514EE50[/img]

nasher - Member

Very light (bike weighed 28 pounds)

No it didn't

[img] [/img]

nasher - Member

Very light (bike weighed 28 pounds)

No it didn't

Errrm ok I was wrong it was about 28.4 without pedals but inc a coil shock... It was lighter than with the 29er wheels.. the tyres were about 900 grams each, thin side walls... they were proto so dont know if current tyres come out that weight

weighed with a set of park scales... do you know any different?

To channel a little Kevin keegan, I'd love it, love it if all those marketing is evil fat bikes rule brigade end up driving a new standard ?

Weighed a 650b Enduro at a shade under 29 pounds the other day, on Park scales, with pedals (similar to the ones above).

It didn't have 3" tyres, a coil shock or 180mm 36s though. Or a 29er frame, or the heavier Evo rims.

Thats the S works, with carbon rims, and weighed it without pedals (a pound in weight)

The 29er frame is exactly as the 650b so its just elongated rear end, so little difference in weight.

Forks are the new fox 160mm, so are same weight as RS Pikes

The ohlins shock is not much heavier than the DB air can... so without pedals it was 28.4 pounds..with those tyres.... so with pedals about 29.4 pounds...

honourablegeorge - Member
Weighed a 650b Enduro at a shade under 29 pounds the other day, on Park scales, with pedals (similar to the ones above).

It didn't have 3" tyres, a coil shock or 180mm 36s though. Or a 29er frame, or the heavier Evo rims.

Maybe saying that in the first place and being a little bit less abrupt and slightly confrontational may have been a more helpful post honourablegeorge...

I think that looks interesting Nasher. Reminds me of when 24" conversions were being tried on 26" DH bikes but with much higher profile tyres to make up the size difference.

[quote=Paceman ]Have we as an MTB community seriously become that cynical that any new design feature that might create a new standard is seen as marketing bullish!t ??!?!

We didn't ask to be cynical, it was forced on us by the marketing people.

28lb bah thats nowt my 29er weighs 12lb if i take most of the stuff off it

This however weighed as much as the earth

[URL= http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f278/firestarter4075/IMAG0304.jp g" target="_blank">http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f278/firestarter4075/IMAG0304.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

26er + anyone? after the arrival of surly's instigator 2.0 i'm tempted to stick a trials rim and a 2.75 dirt wizard on the old inbred i've got knocking about....

In the US Surly sell a 26x3.0 Knard, which internet wisdom says will fit my Surly 1x1.

BUT.
When those tyres do make it to the UK market the combined cost of them and suitable 50mm rims to mount them on is likely to be pushing £400, so for the foreseeable future I'll stick with the 2.4s on 30mm rims I'm currently running.

Just an fyi, Marge Lites somehow fit on my 1x1 with room to spare! Currently running stretched nobby nics (:

[url= http://twitpic.com/1h0rpw ]I miss my very old proto inbred
[/url]

We didn't ask to be cynical, it was forced on us by the marketing people.

The ideal biking "innovation" provides novelty but very little actual change

...I don't get sucked in by fads...

but just happened to have the following bits lying about the shed

Spesh Enduro 29 er with 650b wheels and 3inch + tyres

😉

We didn't ask to be cynical, it was forced on us by the marketing people.

Part of the problem for me is the arrival of new standards in the marketplace as a [b][i]replacement[/b][/i] for existing standards e.g. tapered rather than straight steerers, QR15 over 20mm, 650b over 26". I'm all for innovation but we seem to be in a place where manufacturers throw the baby out with the bath water in an attempt not to be left behind.

LOL... there's no way Fat & Semi-Fat bikes are going to be a [i]replacement[/i] for traditional mountain bikes, and from what I can see, their emergence on the market has stemmed from rider demand, not from marketing as was the case with 650B, tapered headtubes, bolt-thru axles etc.

@ Euro, wish it was lying around my garage

I miss my very old proto inbred

I was going to mention that 🙂

I don't get why you would want high profile tyres on a full suspension bike like that specialized when you have masses of controlled/damped suspension travel - tyres are undamped. All you are doing is increasing tyre roll in corners.

Where as something like procore will give you better grip at lower weights with less tyre roll and better suspension performance because of the progressive nature of the spring rate in the tyre.

Especially on muddy english trails? Why the hell would you want something that floats on mud, whenever we rode muddy tracks at UK DH races we swapped to thin swampies etc to cut through the mud.

Fat bikes have a very narrow defined use and they are great for that - bringing fat bike style tyres over to normal mtb bikes smacks of pure marketing BS.

We used to be able to get 2.6/2.7? DH tyres back in the day (can't remember what they were) and no one ever bothered running them - 2.5 was more than enough. Big tyres didn't give you better times, they just allowed newbies that needed to learn how to ride to get down the track without coming off.

[quote=Tom_W1987 ]I don't get why you would want high profile tyres on a full suspension bike like that specialized when you have masses of controlled/damped suspension travel - tyres are undamped. All you are doing is increasing tyre roll in corners.
Where as something like procore will give you better grip at lower weights with less tyre roll and better suspension performance because of the progressive nature of the spring rate in the tyre.
Especially on muddy english trails? Why the hell would you want something that floats on mud, whenever we rode muddy tracks at UK DH races we swapped to thin swampies etc to cut through the mud.
Fat bikes have a very narrow defined use and they are great for that - bringing fat bike style tyres over to normal mtb bikes smacks of pure marketing BS.
We used to be able to get 2.6/2.7? DH tyres back in the day (can't remember what they were) and no one ever bothered running them - 2.5 was more than enough. Big tyres didn't give you better times, they just allowed newbies that needed to learn how to ride to get down the track without coming off.
Sounds perfect to me. When can I buy them?

I've got a 2.7 highroller somewhere- I quite like it, because it's a 2.5 and I'd got annoyed about buying 2.5 highrollers and discovering they were 2.35s (and doubly annoyed that the 2.35 failed to be 2.1, continuing the trend)

The semi-skimmed Ragley on here a few days ago looked mint, quite fancy trying that.

Jesus we did this back in 01-03'ish with Nokian and Intense too? It was shit then. Peeps bought them prob to look more motocrosslite. Sensible progression? Jesus sweet child of Nazareth.

Stop. Riders and non-riders will point and laugh at you and say 'can't afford a MX or ride one'?

We used to be able to get 2.6/2.7? DH tyres back in the day (can't remember what they were) and no one ever bothered running them - 2.5 was more than enough. Big tyres didn't give you better times, they just allowed newbies that needed to learn how to ride to get down the track without coming off.

I can remember back in the day when 1.8 was normal and 2.1 was big. Marketing obviously ruined bikes before you even started.

And again if you are worried about people pointing and laughing you probably shouldn't be a 40something beardy chubby Lycra wearer on a bicycle.

You've just described all Hebden Bridge riders (and the males)

Hora is right about the Nokian era of '01-'03....2.6-3.0 tyres were tried and were crap, too heavy and draggy and people moved back to 2.5 or less.

When the DH World Cup guys can do amazing things on tyres that are 2.3-2.5 i'm struggling to think exactly what a larger tyre will offer me?

I dont live in the Alps...or book an uplift every weekend, i live in the fairly flat South-East and need my tyres to be easy to pedal....grinding round on a fat tyre fashion statement does not appeal, i like my bikes to be agile and as effortless to pedal as possible, like a lot of people i run a narrower rear for this very reason...fat, semi-skimmed, 650b+ or whatever guff its being called this week is a great example of style over substance.

deviant - Member

When the DH World Cup guys can do amazing things on tyres that are 2.3-2.5 i'm struggling to think exactly what a larger tyre will offer me?

Maybe something different that isn't for dh world cup? There's tons of stuff we use that they don't, if I ever become a dh world cup racer I'll worry about that, in the same way as I don't worry about what tyres Lewis Hamilton uses when I need something for my family estate car.

While I can't see me ever going full fat, for many of the trails I ride in the highlands of Scotland a lightweight tyre that has a bigger footprint and therefore reduces trail erosion and (visible) impact of bikes on fragile and/or heavily used environments, while improving traction and the ability to traverse deep boggy ground, sounds like a great idea.

Not everyone rides DH, nor are you going to be forced to buy fatter tyres. I wouldn't use them on a DH track either (or trail centre for that matter) but for the right purpose they sound ideal.

Not all change is bad (although, for the record, I think 650b is marketing bollocks).

Nasher,

Can I get a shot of the chainstay clearance on that Enduro.

And maybe a profile shot of the bike too?

Fat, semi-skimmed, 650b+ or whatever guff its being called this week is a great example of style over substance.

Or, depending on your views on such things, it's fantastic that our chosen pastime is so diverse, and we are willing to try different technologies available to us. Thank god for choices.

Edit - apologies, I shouldn't really have read past this bit -

Hora is right

I think that looks interesting Nasher. Reminds me of when 24" conversions were being tried on 26" DH bikes but with much higher profile tyres to make up the size difference.

And look at all those 24 inch wheeled fat tyred bikes we see around at the mom....oh wait.

Just a few months ago the anti 650b brigade were saying that 26 to 27.5 was a pointless move because by putting a large tyre on a 26 you could get roughly to the size of a 650b anyway....this was then shouted down by people who quite rightly said that having a fat tyre on a 26 was less desirable than a lower profile on a 650b because the fat tyre is effectively undamped suspension and the tyre deflects too much providing an unstable platform.

Now the industry would have you believe that actually this is a good thing!

....if you're thinking of trying 650b+ just by a 29er.

The overall wheel/tyre diameters will i'm sure be roughly the same and you'll actually have a tyre that fits, doesnt bounce off everything or deform horribly at low pressures etc etc

It won't really take off until there are plenty of decent tyres available. So hopefully soon!

....if you're thinking of trying 650b+ just by a 29er.

The overall wheel/tyre diameters will i'm sure be roughly the same and you'll actually have a tyre that fits, doesnt bounce off everything or deform horribly at low pressures etc etc

Theory and practice rarely align really well. For some stuff Plus size tyres might be great, they will be rubbish for others. I doubt you'll see B+ winning high level Enduros but there's a lot of people buying bikes who DGAS about who does what in racing or what tech is good this season.

+1 futon river crossing

3 years in to 29+ we don't exactly have a mind boggling selection of 29"x3" tyres & 40mm+ rims to choose from. 😐

There's a lot of angry angry people on here...

Went riding on Xmas day in Thetford forest (was lovely) and a chap passed me riding a fatty. He looked to be having a lot of fun and it did leave cool tyre tracks, which is always awesome.

I'd like to have a go on one. I'd like to have a go on 29er+ and 650b+ just to see what they're like too. You don't have to buy them, and they're not going to take over the world.

I quite like the idea of lots of different wheel sizes and tyre widths. Choice innit. Bottom Bracket standards on the other hand....

Some of us tried it before. Its not anger its amusement.

I tried it and am completely sold on it.
Makes a rigid bike more comfortable without the negative effects of a suspension fork.

Absolutely loving my Stooge right now. Currently has a 3" upfront with a 2.4" rear both on 45mm rims.
Thinking about a 650b+ in the back but I'm pretty sure it's upfront where the benefits are dealt.

Some of us tried it before. Its not anger its amusement.

You didn't though, did you - you had 26inch nokian which was utterly terrible, in the league of a Tioga DH and IRC missile. Heavy, stiff casings with monster truck type tread. Awful.

You also didn't have tubeless which makes a huge difference on these larger casings.

And from what I've heard Hora, you couldn't ride out of sight on a dark night so I'll base my opinions on having actually ridden these before writing them off as 'wannabe Motocross' or whatever nonsense you spouted up there...

EDIT:

For reference, a Nokian Gazzaloddi in a 3 inch flavour weighs in at just shy of 1.7kgs. Each. Thats nearly 4lbs. Per. Tyre. And then you have to add in the crazy heavy DH inner tube, which is around 500g each end.

Tbh ..the more choice of bikes the better ....nobody has to actually buy into it unless they want to

except you didn't.
the 2.6 and 3.0 gazzaloddi weigh 1460g and 1697g respectively
[url= http://www.mtbtires.com/specs/nokian.html ]sauce[/url]
the dirt wizards are 850g and 1050g for folding and wire bead respectively. sorry, i only have claimed weights as they don't appear on mtbtires.com yet. [url= http://www.charliethebikemonger.com/surly-dirt-wizard-26-tyre-instigator-26275-4476-p.asp ]saucey charlie[/url]
so at double the weight of a regular tyre the gazzas are certainly going to make their presence felt. the dirt wizards aren't significantly heavier than a regular tyre.
be interested to know what rims the gazzas were being run on too?
you can bag a trials rim with 47mm ID for ~50 quid. so for ~ 120 quid you can go semi skimmed up front on a regular HT...

"the more choice of bikes (wheelsizes ,standards, whatsoever) the better"
totally agree...
as long as we have the choice!

And from what I've heard Hora, you couldn't ride out of sight on a dark night so I'll base my opinions on having actually ridden these before writing them off as 'wannabe Motocross' or whatever nonsense you spouted up there...

Pwned

bugger! should have refreshed the thread before doing all that ^. more than made up for by Flange's post though. LOL!

I'm sensing a strong anti-innovation vibe around here lately. If someone wants to try and break away from what we consider normal and have a crack at launching a new product or idea then go them!

Sure, there are plenty of reasons why fat tyres don't make sense performance wise... but they sure look like a lot of fun.

As for references to tapered head tubes, different wheel sizes, axle standards etc. I personally think these are great steps forward in the advancement of our bikes.

...or maybe I've been completely brain washed by the marketing men.

Morning Del 😉

Now he's ridden with me on my Krampus - doesn't slow me down too much, but apparently looks amusing from behind when I go over rooty sections.
I wouldn't expect 3" tyres to replace normal width tyres, why should they? But, more options is good right? I suppose some people just like moaning without actually trying out things.
For me, on the terrain I ride, and the speeds I ride at, they work.
Right I'm going to go out for a ride 😀

Are we going to see a 3" tyre craze (that requires new frame, fork and wheels)?

Yes - I'll be riding one this year so by definition it will be the best thing since sliced white.

:FACT:

I have not felt the need to get any of the current fashion standard tyre size so can't imagine I'd be interested in getting a new frame to fit even more pointless tyres. If you're weird enough to want a fat bike then mtfu and just get one.

I can't see the point of paying a decent amount to get a light weight wheel set only to stick some unnecessarily heavy/wide rubber on them. I'll stick to lighter wheels with decent front and rear suss. 😉

I tried it and am completely sold on it.
Makes a rigid bike more comfortable without the negative effects of a suspension fork.

What would those negative effects be?

Sure, there are plenty of reasons why fat tyres don't make sense performance wise... but they sure look like a lot of fun.

Fat bike tyres are great for all terrain style bikes, those used for traversing bogs, sand or snow.

They aren't great for grip/speed at trail centers/enduro races/downhill races. To pretend otherwise is daft. Honestly for normal riding, procore is the way to go if you want more grip and comfort. Aside from all the other advantages of procore, it allows you to dial in the grip that you need by simply altering the PSI from a normal range right down to below 20 psi - without having to change your tyre.

Fat bike tyres are great for all terrain style bikes, those used for traversing bogs, sand or snow.

They aren't great for grip/speed at trail centers/enduro races/downhill races. To pretend otherwise is daft.

Well that's cleared that up then. I'll make sure to mention that to anyone I see on a fatbike having fun.

Honestly for normal riding, procore is the way to go if you want more grip and comfort. Aside from all the other advantages of procore, it allows you to dial in the grip that you need by simply altering the PSI from a normal range right down to below 20 psi - without having to change your tyre.

Do you use Procore yourself? Are you a fan because it has 'Pro' and 'Core' in the name?

I've seen 29+ and fatbikes ridden in the snow, down DH tracks, across beaches, at trail centres and on normal natural trails. And you know what? Every one of them had a massive grin plastered over their faces.

So if nothing else they seem to provide pleasure, regardless of their intended use or what some po-faced forum dweller who wants their opinions enforced on the rest of the world imagines to be the truth.

Call it free will, democracy, having a choice or not giving a monkey's pissflaps what someone else thinks of you. If they want to do it and someone will sell it to them then what exactly is the problem? I can't see how it will affect you (unless people enjoying themselves on bikes you don't approve of makes you realise what a mirthless and hollow experience your own rides must be 😉 ).

It is all riding bikes for fun, why does it need to get so serious and prescriptive? Don't want to ride fat tyres on your colour coded Enduro gnarpoon dandyhorse or DH 'rig'? Simple - don't buy them and then don't fit them to your bike.

Didn't get to go for a ride in the end, but been promised I can tomorrow - baby takes priority apparently 🙄

Re: suspension forks...

What would those negative effects be?

Cost, weight, servicing, seals, leaks, you know the usual.

Ok I'll bite...

They aren't great for grip/speed at trail centers/enduro races/downhill races. To pretend otherwise is daft. Honestly for normal riding, procore is the way to go if you want more grip and comfort.

Have you actually ridden a large footprint tyre? At speed? Probably not I guess, because, guess what....the grip is great. Have you ridden procore, or just basing you opinion on what you have read on the interweb?

Tom_W1987 - Member
I tried it and am completely sold on it.
Makes a rigid bike more comfortable without the negative effects of a suspension fork.
What would those negative effects be?

Well brake dive, and the way your body positioning/weight distribution has a drastic effect on the performance of the suspension.
IME after riding suspension for a long time you only notice the positives but take it away and the negatives become apparent.

deviant - Member

Just a few months ago the anti 650b brigade were saying that 26 to 27.5 was a pointless move because by putting a large tyre on a 26 you could get roughly to the size of a 650b anyway....this was then shouted down by people who quite rightly said that having a fat tyre on a 26 was less desirable than a lower profile on a 650b because the fat tyre is effectively undamped suspension and the tyre deflects too much providing an unstable platform.

If you can't see why the two are different you must be daft tbh. 650b is being sold as entirely as a performance improvement at the expense of withdrawing 26 entirely- small benefits, massive costs and downsides. Plus sizes and fatbikes are mostly being pitched as something fun and different you can do with bikes, and more importantly- not at the expense of anything else.

Not everything on a bike has to be better- worse can be fun, different can be fun. Sometimes, better is [i]less[/i] fun. Same thing as building a modern rigid, or similiar. And when there's absolutely no downside to you if someone else does it and likes it, what's the issue? (these things are always more offensive when someone else is having more fun than you)

Have you ridden procore, or just basing you opinion on what you have read on the interweb?

I'd say its very much the latter - keyboard warrior springs to mind...