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Not really kept up with the endless wiffwaffery coming out of central govt what with working, family and general stats fatigue.
Cycling to work past Firle radio masts I came across a large number of mtbikers - prob around 10-12. Too many to count anyway. Luckily I managed to pass them on the road section as I really didn't feel like toiling up the broken road in thier sweaty wake, covid or not!
Are large groups a goer now? I genuinely don't know and only ask because its the first time i've seen more than three cyclists together since lockdown...
Maybe all 10-12 live in the same house then its fine.
Otherwise no.
If they were all 2 metres apart then fine as they could just all be cycling independently 2 metres away from each other...
Groups of up to six can meet for exercise provided they maintain social distancing.
Alternative government guidance appears to be that no-one gives a shit any more, do what you like. And stay alert, or something.
Thankfully the government rules and guidelines don't appear to apply to mountain bikers or road cyclists.
Well, from what I have seen thus far.
** steps off saop box and winds neck in **
Going by the government guidelines you can meet up to 5 others (so 6 in the group) in an outside area with a social distancing.
I am meeting up with others but riding in small groups (4 max so far) and generally trying to ride with the same 6 people if we do go out (bubble theory). Use own transport, have to be self supporting for tools and spares. Staying local (no car needed to 20min drive away). Normally ride out of the bizzy day time to avoid others
I personally don’t know if this is or isn’t breaking the rules as a lot of what’s been said isn’t clear but the way I look at it i’m still working and probably being put in worse situations than when riding.
10-12 was too many to count? ooft. 🙂
Thankfully the government rules and guidelines don’t appear to apply to mountain bikers or road cyclists.
Or professional football.
Cycling to work past Firle radio masts I came across a large number of mtbikers – prob around 10-12.
Probably Government special advisors on a team training day...
kerley
If they were all 2 metres apart then fine as they could just all be cycling independently 2 metres away from each other…
they may have suffered some visual impairment and can't focus past 2m and just have gone out to test their vision?
Or professional football
Did you not see the new rules? Only six people allowed in the box at a time (including the goalkeeper)
Be alert. Or something. 6. Unless in Wales. Or Scotland.
It’s all a carefully ambiguous scrum until the opportunistically-synchronised completely random date of July 4th US Independence Day/psychological-conditioning/herd-immunity experiment signals the Great Release Of Great British Freedoms/US-alignment pact and the PUBS WILL BE OPENED!!!!
At which point we trust once more that blablabla common sense shall prevail bla bla
No one cares anymore.
HTH.
Did you not see the new rules? Only six people allowed in the box at a time (including the goalkeeper)
It's pretty amazing what a bit of money can achieve. Hopefully the magic anti-viral coating developed for footballs will trickle down to less important uses like PPE for the NHS.
I saw several groups of 6 out on the road last weekend. Whilst they probably were technically 2m apart, given that riding in a group on the road is specifically for the purpose of being in someone else's dirty air, it's kind of missing the point.
But yeah, I think after castle-gate, nobody GaS.
The guidance is just a confusing mess now and i don't think anyone either understands it or is still following it (whatever it is). We seem to be falling into two camps... Those that have just decided to go back to pre Covid behaviour and those that are still very concerned so have made up their own minds about what they are comfortable with.
A large part of me thinks that this is really the unspoken plan and we are really just doing the herd immunity thing now, but the Gov won't openly state that because it would make them look like they are intentionally sacrificing people.
Cycling is fine, just no Snot-Rockets 🙂
The guidance is just a confusing mess now and i don’t think anyone either understands it or is still following it (whatever it is). We seem to be falling into two camps… Those that have just decided to go back to pre Covid behaviour and those that are still very concerned so have made up their own minds about what they are comfortable with.
A large part of me thinks that this is really the unspoken plan and we are really just doing the herd immunity thing now, but the Gov won’t openly state that because it would make them look like they are intentionally sacrificing people.
“Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.” “Until they become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious.”
A large part of me thinks that this is really the unspoken plan and we are really just doing the herd immunity thing now, but the Gov won’t openly state that because it would make them look like they are intentionally sacrificing people.
This. It's undeniably clear that the government wants people to be infected, but wants to be able to disclaim responsibility.
The rules for cycling are pretty straight forward.
Some people see them being ignored a lot, some don't. Some like to make points about other inconsistencies in the guidelines, some don't.
This is why we have this thread roughly once a week, always going down the same rabbit hole. Which is fine if we're from the same household or 2 metres apart.
Dominic Cummings
Did you not see the new rules? Only six people allowed in the box at a time (including the goalkeeper)
Ah that’s ok then as clearly they never get close anywhere else on the pitch.
if you can ride a MTB 2m (or closer) from someone else on a trail you are either a hero or crashing into them
even 5m behind someone is bloody scary as you are riding almost totally blind
riding up a fire road 2m is an easy distance to keep.
you stop and chat 2m apart. its not hard.
The rules for cycling are pretty straight forward.
The rules in general are clear. How they apply to cycling is less so, as common sense tells you that 2m in static air isn't the same as following 2m behind someone.
There is some king of hazily defined rule for organised sport of fifteen people or something.
Van halen +1
we are really just doing the herd immunity thing now
I keep hearing this, but I'm not sure what it really means. Either you attempt to completely suppress the virus, which means an extended, full-on lock down, with catastrophic side effects (not just economic, but health as well), or you relax lock down, knowing that this will allow the virus to spread, but at a level that the health service can cope with, and ideally limiting spread as much as possible to those least likely to see serious side effects.
Either way, people die, and it's an extremely difficult call given the poor data available, and the unpredictability of human behaviour.
I don't think it's very helpful to dismiss relaxing lockdown as "doing herd immunity". What's the alternative?
Ok well it seems to be still outside whatever rules are in place today. It is a fireroad climb but pretty steep at around 17% max gradient in parts and difficult to keep 2m apart (whatever that does) when in a large group.
I guess I still go by the 'if it looks a bit iffy it probably is best avoided' maxim and luckily as I can't stand group rides that won't be a problem.
I hope these large groups don't become a regular fixture of my commute as I don't feel comfortable passing them on a fireroad or even a narrow road.
I don’t think it’s very helpful to dismiss relaxing lockdown as “doing herd immunity”. What’s the alternative?
Thats a fair point, we can't stay locked up forever. I think the cynicism I have is that the relaxation its being managed so badly and is at times so contradictory that they almost want people to ignore it and go further than a more controlled relaxation. Decisions seem to now be driven more by the economy than public health. But thats something they don't want to openly state.
economy than public health
I think you'll find the two are very much linked. Covid-19 isn't the only thing out there...
I hope these large groups don’t become a regular fixture of my commute as I don’t feel comfortable passing them on a fireroad or even a narrow road.
You mean in terms of transfer of CV19? If so, if they're riding the opposite way from you, and there's 12 of them, you'll be in passing them for less than 2 or 3 seconds, do you think you're at risk from the virus passing from someone to you at over a metre away, for such a short period of time?.
I really can't see it tbh.
No, I mean overtking them! Some of us have to get to work and can't be dawdling around y'know!
Even at that, you'll be passing for a very short time, and tbh at commute o'clock you won't see many groups.
nober
You mean in terms of transfer of CV19? If so, if they’re riding the opposite way from you, and there’s 12 of them, you’ll be in passing them for less than 2 or 3 seconds, do you think you’re at risk from the virus passing from someone to you at over a metre away, for such a short period of time?.
I really can’t see it tbh.
Erm no.... what amazes me is you can't apply the same logic to riding 5m behind someone for an hour.
Winston
I hope these large groups don’t become a regular fixture of my commute as I don’t feel comfortable passing them on a fireroad or even a narrow road.
Yeah, I've given up worrying what others choose to do or not but it's frustrating when you have a group riding in front. I get this with wannabe roady's who pass me on the flat/downhill on my way to singletrack then stick in front of me. Short of a bigger chainring all I can do is stop/slow.
Erm no…. what amazes me is you can’t apply the same logic to riding 5m behind someone for an hour.
I was out with a couple of mates on tuesday night, 11 miles on the road, then 15 miles offroad home, It's not often you come within 5m of each other, gates and climbing fences was about it tbh.
I get this with wannabe roady’s who pass me on the flat/downhill on my way to singletrack then stick in front of me
Had a wheelsucker on a road climb on tuesday, road bike, full lycra, and he's hitching a ride off me on a FS 160mm with 2.6 Mary! haha!
The rules in general are clear.
They really aren't. The gradual relaxation is going to confuse people on a weekly basis. It was easy when it was stay at home but once you have rules around 6 people in a garden, single people electing a bubble, 2m possibly going to 1m and so on it really is not simple and clear any more.
Combined with the fact that, as others have said, people have generally lost interest in it so just doing what you feel is right "Stay Alert" is what people are tending to do now.
If I enjoyed riding with other people I would ride in group where everyone was 2m apart irrespective of how many in group.
What isn't clear to me is what the relative risks are, e.g.
Outdoors, 2m, static air
Outdoors, 1m, static air
Indoors, 2m
Indoors, 1m
Shaking hands with / without washing them
I have a strong feeling that the top 2 are extremely low risk compared to the others and that the difference between 1m, 2m, riding in a loose group, riding in a tight group are almost entirely negligible by comparison with actual physical contact, or being indoors.
FWIW, I'm not doing larger group rides at the moment mostly because I don't want to risk some bell-end in a car deciding to "show them a lesson", but from a purely health and transmission standpoint, I'd have no concerns whatsoever, especially as I know that those that I ride with have been pretty diligent at following the rules during the lockdown period and are therefore extremely unlikely to be asymptomatic carriers.
As noted above, you also need to take into account time of exposure. I actually think that riding in a tight group for several hours would be right up there in terms of risk. Riding on someone's wheel is deliberately putting yourself into the air that the rider in front is exhaling into.
As noted above, you also need to take into account time of exposure. I actually think that riding in a tight group for several hours would be right up there in terms of risk. Riding on someone’s wheel is deliberately putting yourself into the air that the rider in front is exhaling into.
It's a fair comment (and something we've discussed internally for weeks now!). I guess this is where the "contact tracing" element comes in - i.e. do you know the people you are riding with and do you know who *they* have been mixing with? Ultimately, how confident are you that they are virus-free?
~Nober
I was out with a couple of mates on tuesday night, 11 miles on the road, then 15 miles offroad home, It’s not often you come within 5m of each other, gates and climbing fences was about it tbh.
That's my point ... a measly 18 kph is 5 ms-1. I'm old (over 50) and unfit (even for my age) and I do a steady 30-35kph (8.3 ms-1) on the road on my MTB.
So 11 miles is 17.7 km @ 30 kph so call that 36 mins spent 0.6 seconds behind / in front?
The rules in general are clear. How they apply to cycling is less so, as common sense tells you that 2m in static air isn’t the same as following 2m behind someone.
Nope, I still think "the rules" are clear.
Whether you want to rely on them to stay safe while cycling is a different matter.
What isn’t clear to me is what the relative risks are, e.g.
Outdoors, 2m, static air
Outdoors, 1m, static air
Indoors, 2m
Indoors, 1m
Shaking hands with / without washing themI have a strong feeling that the top 2 are extremely low risk compared to the others and that the difference between 1m, 2m, riding in a loose group, riding in a tight group are almost entirely negligible by comparison with actual physical contact, or being indoors.
Excuse me putting it like this but...
What is your "strong feeling" on risk between standing 2m apart with a 2m drainpipe between your mouths for 30 mins outside vs inside?
What's your strong feeling between 2 people riding 1/4 sec apart in a velodrome vs a road?
I think you’ll find the two are very much linked. Covid-19 isn’t the only thing out there…
which is why the school reopening is going so well. oh......
What isn’t clear to me is what the relative risks are, e.g.
Outdoors, 2m, static air
Outdoors, 1m, static air
Indoors, 2m
Indoors, 1m
its been really well documented in most media sources that studies by those that know show that outdoors there is significantly less risk of transmission than indoors.
its places like offices/shops/public transport where you are most likely to get it. out in a forest the probability quite unlikley unless you are into group hugs/dogging.
Excuse me putting it like this but…
What is your “strong feeling” on risk between standing 2m apart with a 2m drainpipe between your mouths for 30 mins outside vs inside?What’s your strong feeling between 2 people riding 1/4 sec apart in a velodrome vs a road?
I have no idea what point you are trying to make here. It's Friday afternoon, and it's been a long week, so you might need to be a bit less obtuse!
its been really well documented in most media sources that studies by those that know show that outdoors there is significantly less risk of transmission than indoors.
This would seem instinctively correct (well, to my mind, anyway), but how well it applies in moving air, and how it would apply in a close-formed group of cyclists would be another question.
The fact that standing (or cycling) 1m from someone rather than 2m will lead to a higher risk of infection is unarguable. The bit that *is* arguable is how much higher it is. Is it 50% higher? Is it 10% higher? Is it 0.001% higher? And this makes a difference when trying to make a judgement based on actual risk, rather than just random Facebook noise or, frankly, a government who don't seem especially good at even following their own rules...
SeveXTC I'm still not sure what your point is? Do you think riding 5 metres behind someone for 36 minutes* is too risky?.
I did take my turn at the front too! 😊
I have no idea what point you are trying to make here. It’s Friday afternoon, and it’s been a long week, so you might need to be a bit less obtuse!
Fair enough ...
To try and illustrate...I'll requote from above.
its been really well documented in most media sources that studies by those that know show that outdoors there is significantly less risk of transmission than indoors.
There is a increased danger just from over generalising and a false sense of safety. (e.g. masks***)
However I also think those making policy are also "double dipping".
.... it's been shown that sitting in a restricted amount of air means you are breathing in exhaled more often and quickly.(in general).. it's not a "magic*" property of being indoors it's just a restricted amount of air. (*over a period of hours/days then UV may have an effect in the case of COVID... over <<1 sec that effect from sunlight is approaching zero.)
Take something else like basketball... is it safer for 2 kids to shoot hoops about outside than inside an otherwise empty sports-hall?
Assuming they stay 2m apart and the place is pre-sterile then the risk is that the basketball carries the virus.. so trying to compare indoor vs outdoor is a red herring.
Then compare to 2 kids playing "football" where only one touches the ball with their feet only...
Telling them to "play outdoors" because it's "safe" is less important (IMHO) than giving them advice on how to play safely.
To illustrate the *** masks... my mate lives in Paris and is in despair watching Parisians from his balcony taking off their masks to kiss
Regarding group cycling.... it seems to me that until proven otherwise giving a separation distance is pointless and a "safe time gap" is far more applicable.
"Regarding group cycling…. it seems to me that until proven otherwise giving a separation distance is pointless and a “safe time gap” is far more applicable. "
Or just not cycling in a massive group anyway. Even pre-covid I've never understood the need to hit the hills/road 10-20 up with all the weaving around taking up the whole path, getting in other peoples way, constant shouting from the front to the back and vice versa Car! or Walker! plus all the associated hold ups and mechanicals! I reckon offroad should be max 2 bikers and on road a max of 4. I'm only half joking too.
Even pre-covid I’ve never understood the need to hit the hills/road 10-20 up with all the weaving around taking up the whole path, getting in other peoples way, constant shouting from the front to the back and vice versa Car! or Walker! plus all the associated hold ups and mechanicals! I reckon offroad should be max 2 bikers and on road a max of 4. I’m only half joking too.
TBH I'm not a big fan but it's nice every so often. I quite like a yearly or so owners club ride and the same taking out Jnr.. nice with a couple of other parents and kids but much more than 6 or so it's a nightmare.
I don't own a road bike, but used to years ago, one of the best things about it was when you get into a good group on a club ride, on a nice flowing road, everyone working together, flying along. Brilliant.
And some of my best days on the MTB have been big days with mates in the likes of Torridon, Lakes, uplift days, gondola, you get the picture.
You can ram your 2 riders max rule ya miserable bastards! 😂
You can ram your 2 riders max rule ya miserable bastards!
Although I know you are not being entirely serious the issue at the moment is as Winston said.
Many people for reasons I can understand don't care if they get the virus or have already had it or think they have. Increasingly this means that those who have diverse reasons* lead them not to want to contract the virus can't do basic things like going for a ride or walk ...
Yesterday I spent an hour in a pantomime queue to try and buy plaster... whole families so the kids can buy their 5 bags and after an hour of the father standing a foot away when the kids started banging into me I asked if they could keep 2m apart...
When I politely asked if they could keep 2m apart I was told "if I am that worried I shouldn't leave the house". I understand their apathy, they have probably chosen to get the virus or already had it ... the kids were not badly behaved and each kid is worth 5 bags of plaster
Apart from my own auto immune disorders my mother is over 80 and has her own auto immune issues (or more accurately I have hers perhaps) and mid Feb when it was obvious care homes were going to be killing grounds my brother quit his job to look after my mother. I don't have a job to go back to and OH is on unpaid sabbatical.. if my brother even thinks he might be infected I have to look after my mother for 2-3 weeks...
Increasingly I'm having to limit my riding due to others who like the family above don't mind if they get the virus but can't respect my reasons for not wanting to.
Aye, there does seem to be a large portion of society who don't consider it an issue to them (although I have observed they're quite often fatties and as such very much is an issue for them) and a load of folk who look like they're constantly shitting themselves when out and about.
Equating that to groups riding bikes is however, very STW.
in 3 days time pro footballers will wrestling each other live on tv, As far as i'm concerned all bets are off. Social distancing **** it, money before lives.
In fairness, there is mass and repeated testing going on at clubs and any positive tests are resulting in isolations and exclusions.
The German pro League is now 3 weekends back, I'm not aware of any mass increase in virus as a result, but it has improved 'enjoyment' of lockdown for millions of fans.
It's no way similar to groups of recreational cyclists.
It’s no way similar to groups of recreational cyclists
This.
If you're gonna do as you please, that's up to you, but don't do the whole schoolboy 'but they did it first' thing, it's a bit silly.
Well, after 3 months of saying "it's being well observed round here" - FML 🤦♂️
Lots of clearly not household threesomes, foursomes and moresomes out today, failing to maintain 2 metres - for what that's worth - either riding or at the cafe.
Special mention to the group of 12 riders at the cafe, most in their club kit, totally ignoring social distancing at all, including a few big group photos, before riding off in a nice tight peloton.
In fairness, there is mass and repeated testing going on at clubs and any positive tests are resulting in isolations and exclusions.
I'm sorry where's the clause in the rules that says if you undergo regular testing they don't apply ?
I’m sorry where’s the clause in the rules that says if you undergo regular testing they don’t apply ?
There isn't one. However there is the clause that this is elite level sport, highly controlled (and controllable) - in essence a big bubble of the pro clubs. They can stay in their mansions, apart from going to highly controlled training grounds and stadiums where they are cosseted and kept apart from the great unwashed. They aren't going to workplaces on the bus, into supermarkets, or DiY shops, and meeting up once a week with loads of others all doing the same.
If you can't see that and think that the restart of pro sport gives licence for everyone to do the same there's no point trying to have a reasoned discussion about it.
I mean - Phil and Holly aren't co habiting but have never stopped meeting up! Why can't we all do the same? Wah!!!!
They aren’t going to workplaces on the bus, into supermarkets, or DiY shops, and meeting up once a week with loads of others all doing the same.
what instead of just having sex parties, going to burger king getting hair cuts flying to paris yeah sounds likes it's under control
There’s also the fact that Premier League football keeps a lot of people entertained, indoors and out of trouble at the weekend. I’m looking forward to it returning (not that I’ll be watching).
how many are doing that then?
how many are doing that then?
should think every one of their other halfs will be hitting the shops tomorrow here's mrs vardy @ the supermarket yesterday so much for that highly controlled mythical bubble you described.
So.... Putting aside the off piste wendyball cobbleurs, are we allowed to ride in groups now...?
I think 6 is the magic number, socially distanced. Minimum 2m but probly more when flying along at avg 25mph (ahem).
Let's face it, the vast majority of people don't GAF any more.
The government has only one priority now, which is to open up as much work and leisure stuff as they think they can get away with. That will keep everyone too busy with catching up at work or getting pissed down the pub to notice that our last chance to at least put off the carnage of a No Deal Brexit is slipping past unnoticed.
****s.
certainly not the size of groups I saw around Molesey and Hampton today. Very poor behaviour, both by size and closeness and tarnishes us all even though I'm the first to criticise when people do that.
Groups I saw today showed on one hand that they could count, no more than 6 in any peleton (but clear there were up to 5 groups of six at the same time all with club jerseys) but their gauging distance was off as all the sixes were tightly bunched either following wheels or 3 abreast on climbs
Well the bunch of 20+ nodders heading out of Longridge this morning seem to think everything's tickety-boo. Absolutely boils my p***.
Two households max for me. My usual biking mates have decided everything is back to normal apart from distancing but, not quite there myself.
Aye, there does seem to be a large portion of society who don’t consider it an issue to them (although I have observed they’re quite often fatties and as such very much is an issue for them) and a load of folk who look like they’re constantly shitting themselves when out and about.
Equating that to groups riding bikes is however, very STW.
LOL... but I think my point is it may not be an issue to THEM for lots of reasons.
The subtlety is in getting them to realise that their actions effect others for whom it does matter. I don't think there was any malice whatsover in the family, for them the 2m markings are perhaps like crossing at a red pelican crossing at 2am when the roads are empty and they can see in both directions for a mile.
At the other end there are some who seem to want to go out of their way to show they aren't scared... and lots inbetween. Most people though seem to just copy what everyone around them is doing. If they are in a queue where everyone is 2m apart they follow .. if noone else is then they don't.
One thing I noticed increasing is groups choosing to congregate on choke points. I cross a railway bridge <2m wide for example that also forms a meeting spot of many footpaths and bridleways. People naturally meet just because its the only way across for miles.. but don't seem to understand I don't want to have to physically push through them. They often seem to stand to the sides and wave at me... in a good natured way like "we don't mind come on over" and seem genuinely puzzled I'd rather wait or go a couple of miles to the next crossing.
Equating that to groups riding bikes is however, very STW.
In the same way I don't think the majority of the dog walkers and families on the bridge are doing anything malicious I don't think the group riders are really thinking that I might just not want to catch the virus. To get all STW... it's not like they are deliberately buzzing a horse and rider ...just that they don't see why they should take into account???
@stevextc Regarding group cycling…. it seems to me that until proven otherwise giving a separation distance is pointless and a “safe time gap” is far more applicable.
Fair enough. I guess my original point is that there is very little information available as to actual, quantifiable risk levels. I heard a politician on the telly say "2m is clearly the safest, so we should not change the rules" with an entirely straight face. If they can't quantify how much safer it is, then they really have no place making some statements. It might only be safer by 0.00001%, in which case their comment, while being technically correct, is also utter garbage at the same time!
It's worth noting that the WHO (and much of the rest of the world) have settled on 1m rather than 2m now, on the basis that it's the removal of direct contact that's the important thing, rather than getting too hung up on distances. The UK are somewhat behind the curve in this regard, as has been something of a pattern during this whole pandemic 🙁
And us? Well, my son and I went out for a nice ride on Sunday and met, by accident, another dad and son who we know well. After a short discussion over a tea and bacon sarnie on the grass outside a local cafe, we rode home together as a foursome. Felt lovely to be out on a normal ride and the kids never stopped talking, catching up on 3 months of news! Fingers crossed for some sensible relaxation of rules in July to allow guilt-free outdoor cycling with friends!
It’s worth noting that the WHO (and much of the rest of the world) have settled on 1m rather than 2m now, on the basis that it’s the removal of direct contact that’s the important thing, rather than getting too hung up on distances. The UK are somewhat behind the curve in this regard, as has been something of a pattern during this whole pandemic
No. The WHO defined 'contact' as being within 1m for 15 mins some months ago iirc. The 2m thing is based on droplets travel from a cough. Sorry - I can't be arsed to look it up to show my workings.
No. The WHO defined ‘contact’ as being within 1m for 15 mins some months ago iirc. The 2m thing is based on droplets travel from a cough. Sorry – I can’t be arsed to look it up to show my workings.
Not sure what the "no" was referring to, but the WHO state that you should stay "at least 1m" from other people: "Why? When someone coughs, sneezes, or speaks they spray small liquid droplets from their nose or mouth which may contain virus. If you are too close, you can breathe in the droplets, including the COVID-19 virus if the person has the disease." There is no mention of 2m being preferred.
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public
A quick rummage says that countries have adopted a mix of distances from 1m to 2m, but only the UK, Spain and Canada have stuck to the largest 2m distance at this time.
Regarding group cycling…. it seems to me that until proven otherwise giving a separation distance is pointless and a “safe time gap” is far more applicable.
I'm still not convinced it's not safer than 2m stood still.
If you're ticking along the road at ~10m/s that's a hell of a lot of turbulent air for your breath and any droplets to become diluted in.
I've not ridden in a group since this began, itching to get back but the club is being sensible and not running anything. TBH I've not even seen any large groups out. Even in the wider circle of people I know on Strava I've only seen one "club" ride, and that was a local-ish mountain bike group's roadie sub-group (still way more than 6 of them).
daern
Fair enough. I guess my original point is that there is very little information available as to actual, quantifiable risk levels. I heard a politician on the telly say “2m is clearly the safest, so we should not change the rules” with an entirely straight face. If they can’t quantify how much safer it is, then they really have no place making some statements. It might only be safer by 0.00001%, in which case their comment, while being technically correct, is also utter garbage at the same time!
There are numbers but it's not absolute and more trivial than the rest of behaviour.
Hence my off the cuff "stand 2m apart with a plastic drainpipe between your mouths".
As Del said... "can't be bothered to show my working"... but it's more that the working is irrelevant unless you take the constraints and meaning. Something the politicians seem to want to do is just have a magic number.
“Why? When someone coughs, sneezes, or speaks they spray small liquid droplets from their nose or mouth which may contain virus. If you are too close, you can breathe in the droplets, including the COVID-19 virus if the person has the disease.” There is no mention of 2m being preferred.
2m has nothing to do with coughing or sneezing because coughing and sneezing is WAY further than 2m. It does illustrate the whole point that trying to give a single inclusive number is pointless. 2cm separation back to back is very obviously much better than 2m face to face if someone coughs or sneezes...
It’s worth noting that the WHO (and much of the rest of the world) have settled on 1m rather than 2m now, on the basis that it’s the removal of direct contact that’s the important thing, rather than getting too hung up on distances.
I refer you back to the quote you re-quoted about time vs distance.
but only the UK, Spain and Canada have stuck to the largest 2m distance at this time
I don't know about Canada but Spain also has had other restriction we didn't.
It's not a "magic number"
And us? Well, my son and I went out for a nice ride on Sunday and met, by accident, another dad and son who we know well. After a short discussion over a tea and bacon sarnie on the grass outside a local cafe, we rode home together as a foursome. Felt lovely to be out on a normal ride and the kids never stopped talking, catching up on 3 months of news! Fingers crossed for some sensible relaxation of rules in July to allow guilt-free outdoor cycling with friends!
I honestly don't know why you should feel guilty..?
Equally I don't see why someone else should feel guilty if they want to ride "alone" and keep a distance they feel is "safer".