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Yes, I remember the days of U-turn forks but I'm wondering if anyone has managed to make a sort of 'two bikes in one' type thing recently?
I was looking at the new Starling bikes which have moveable shock mounts allowing the travel to be set at 120mm, 135mm, 150mm, and 165mm (with different shocks).
https://www.starlingcycles.com/which-shock-length-for-your-starling-cycles-frame/
You could pair that with something like the Cane Creek Helm MkII which also has adjustable travel from 120mm to 160mm (although it's not super straight forward as it does involve disassembling the fork). If you really wanted to I guess you could also get a second set of wheels (or possibly just another front wheel).
My main bike is currently a 140mm trail bike. It's great but it's a bit too much for the very local trails and a bit too little for some of the gnarlier trails a few hours drive away.
Having a short travel bike for local trails but then with an hour or so's work have it be a long travel bike for long weekends and holidays would be pretty awesome. Just wondering if anyone has done something similar in recent times?
Also, any other options for forks that are easily adjustable?
There’s quite a few frames that are the same across two models in a range, sometimes with a flipchip or different linkage - you can often spot this when the longer travel bike has the same difference between head angle and seat angle (normally a longer travel bike would want a steeper seat angle and slacker head angle). And if there’s no change in linkage or flip chip or shock length (inc moveable mount) then the longer travel bike will have a higher BB due to the longer fork.
The fork length travel change is the bigger challenge though.
I wonder if the best solution is a bike with adjustable geometry like a current Stumpjumper. For gnarlier trails put the headset to slack and the BB height to high and run 20/30% sag F/R with your damping and volume spacers dialled in.
For easier trails drop the sag by say 5% at the front and about 10% at the back, drop the BB to low and head angle to steep, and increase your compression damping. You’ll still technically have the same travel but it’ll feel firmer and steeper like a shorter travel bike, with less bob and better pumping.
The Canyon Strive has/had a changeable rear travel with a bar remote to go from 140 to 160 rear travel which they called the "Shapeshifter"
A friend has one and really likes it, runs it 140 most of the time on UK trails but when we went to the Alps he just flicked the remote and hey presto! Long travel Enduro bike!
Also, any other options for forks that are easily adjustable?
Manitou Mezzer Pro. Internally adjustable 140-180mm in 10mm steps. Easy job - drop the lowers and adjust.
Any frame for dual-purpose use at different travel amounts will always be compromised in some way. Taking something like 120mm vs 170mm travel even if there was a way achieve appropriate geometry at each travel level, the basic frame build would either by overkill for 120mm or inadequate for 170mm.
Bionicon back in the day?
Plus n+1 is better.
It's an approach that says geometry isn't so important that it needs to be optimised to the mm. This will either resonate with you and the type of riding you do, or be a blueprint for a bad bike if you have something more focussed in mind.
I used to own an adjustable rear shock enduro bike that changed the geo quite a bit. It was technically well done but a silly design in hindsight - the bike would never be anything other than average in a shorter travel mode, so why not just design it properly around enduro numbers.
Vitus Escarpe and Sommet aren't technically the same bike with different shocks, but come from the same mold IIRC so you can have either a heavy Escarpe or a light Sommet with just a shock (and fork travel) change. Actually IIRC it's the shame length but different strokes so you could even just have a coil shock with a decent range of adjustment and just swap from a firm XC spring (no need to add a bump stop, what's the point) and add a few clicks of damping to use less travel.
The advantage seems marginal though, by the time you've bought a new fork, shock and wheelset, you're a long way towards just buying a 2nd "alps bike"? And you're actually reducing the convenience as you can't ride your XC bike one day and then go to BPW the next (without faff). It might even be lighter to spend the extra cash on light but strong parts rather than trying to buy 2 sets of light + cheap and cheap + strong wheels and forks.
The new Geometron G1 has 2 travel settings. Can't remember the figures but there's a short version and a long travel version both with 2 settings each.
You can move the shock in 2 minutes with an allen key. Usefully the shorter travel position also has a lower leverage/higher compression setting so should make it more lively at the same time.
Man, I'd love another Geometron. Awesome bikes.
The solution is incredibly simple and doesn't require "gimmicks" or swapping parts at all.
Just buy any 170mm travel bike with air sprung shock and fork and run higher pressures to achieve a shorter travel stiffer version of the same bike.
If done properly geometry will remain the same except for BB height at sag. But even limiting it to only use 100mm each end it still won't be sky high
Remember. With higher air pressures you'll also need to increase your rebound settings by a few clicks. The whole process is a 5min job once you know your preferences
The Raaw Jibb V2 also has two different rear travel options, using different rockers.
I should mention that a few Cotics have had rear travel options as well... using different stroke shocks. Current RocketMAX is offered like that. The old FlareMAX was. Oh, and going well back, the Hemlock had different rockers for different travel... and that two bikes in one thing worked well for me... very few people care about such things though!
Some bikes can be short- or long-shocked vs. their stock configuration.
And this could be as simple as an external stroke limiter, if using a coil. Or just swapping to a spare shock.
So my latest bike (Orbea Rallon) comes with a 230x60 for 160mm travel, but the manufacturer has approved use of a 230x62.5 to give 167mm travel. And some owners have reported using a 230x65mm with no issues, giving a notional 173mm travel.
Not a massive difference, but useful nonetheless.
My outgoing frame (Bird Aeris 9) can have a different linkage swapped in to move from 160mm to 180mm travel. A more significant change for sure.
None of the above are feasible changes within a single ride, but can all be done for a day's riding or a weekend away.
It's an approach that says geometry isn't so important that it needs to be optimised to the mm. This will either resonate with you and the type of riding you do, or be a blueprint for a bad bike if you have something more focussed in mind.
That's a good point - an all-rounder might exist that's not optimised to the nth degree. That's not me though. I've been (fairly!) accused of being a fussy bastard who's unwilling to compromise, which definitely puts me in the latter camp of 'correct tool for the job'.
To me, geometry's the most important bit to get right on a bike.
The main reason long travel Enduro bikes are horrible to ride XC on isn't their longer travel but their massively high rolling resistance tyres and shortening travel alone isn't going to miraculously make an Enduro bike great for tamer XC type riding. So if you plan on using the one bike for both and want them optimised for each end of your riding scale swapping tyres each time will be required.
Yup, two sets of wheels always a better investment than shock or rocker swapping.
Yup, two sets of wheels always a better investment than shock or rocker swapping.
I agree with this, and do it myself - but you could always change the wheels and the shock.
I used to have an Enduro with an inline Fox air shock that went like stink with lighter wheels. Felt very different with an Ohlins swapped in.
Not recently, but the Cotic Hemlock was one.
No idea why it didn't carry on as an idea.
Not the prettiest bike (understatement) but that high rocker-link, industrial look was quite popular then, I seem to remember - like the Kona Coiler.
We rode at Ciclo Montana one year with a couple of Scots; one of them had a Hemlock & couldn't stop telling us what an amazing bike it was. He seemed pretty handy on it.
I've always thought that they'd probably be too much of a compromise at both ends of their use-cases to be worth it.
Yup, two sets of wheels always a better investment than shock or rocker swapping.
You have to be careful though. I started off thinking about getting another front wheel and now I'm thinking about two new wheels, a frame, fork, and two shocks.
It's a slippery slope.
Oh, and going well back, the Hemlock had different rockers for different travel...
Specialized did something similar with their XC full sus bikes for a while (early 2000's) before they developed the Epic. I had one which had two rockers for (I think) 75 and 90mm rear wheel travel (it was Back In The Day, OK, that was what XC bikes had back then!)
Bionicon bikes used to be travel adjust on the fly. I don't hear much about them these days.
Googled and looks like they are still doing something similar
All-New Bionicon Edison EVO Enduro Mountain Bike Adjusts Suspension, Angles & Wheel Size - Bikerumor
I used to have a Giant AC (which was supposed to mean "All Conditions"). There were three different mounting holes on the rocker, 4.5", 5.5", and 6". The problem with doing that is that the damper is overdriven in the long travel setting. It worked ok as a mid travel bike where you could stiffen the suspension up for climbing by putting it in the short travel setting and then convert it back in a minute using a multitool for the descent. It didn't really work so well in the 6" setting. Probably partly because I had a Psylo U-Turn fork up front (85 to 125 mm adjustable travel), and the fork was a long travel (for 2005) trail fork, not a DH fork.
Modern bikes are much better, but I still like the U-Turn fork idea for long climbs.
More on-the-fly adjustment has been done to death in the past - as mentioned, Bionocon were big with it but also Marin with their (TARA?) full sus stuff where you could simply undo a QR and move the shock position to (I think!) have 4/5/6" travel on the same frame.
Forks too like the old U-Turn RS forks could have their travel adjusted whilst out riding.
At the end of the day though, its just a faff isn't it? Long travel modern bikes ride so well vs old skool long travel full sus so it sort of renders them useless. Went to BPW via FoD recently. Rode a XC-style loop at FoD with no issues whatsoever and then rode BPW the next. Did I feel like I wanted any more/less travel on either day? No.
shortening travel alone isn't going to miraculously make an Enduro bike great for tamer XC type riding.
this. Frame weights don’t vary hugely so it’s completely conceivable to use the same frame with different builds and adjusted angles, but just dropping the rear travel isn’t going to make much difference if you’ve still got a heavy long travel fork, big tyres and heavy wheelset.
whenever I’ve had this end up leaving it in the long travel settings all the time.
My Tilt kinda does this. 138/125mm rear travel depending on shock. Mine's at 138mm, and I've got a Rock Shox travel adjust fork that will switch between 130-160mm on the fly. Does absolutely everything I could ask for in a bike. It's a bit of a lump at 34lb but still pedals better than any other bike I've had.
At the end of the day though, its just a faff isn't it? Long travel modern bikes ride so well vs old skool long travel full sus so it sort of renders them useless. Went to BPW via FoD recently. Rode a XC-style loop at FoD with no issues whatsoever and then rode BPW the next. Did I feel like I wanted any more/less travel on either day? No.
It depends. If you don't mind being overbiked a lot of the time then you just go for a big bike and be done with it.
But my local rides tend to be quite short (like an hour and a half or so) and it's on trails I know pretty well (and the longest downhill takes me about two minutes). For that I want a limited bike just to keep things interesting.
If I'm going away I want something that's going to be more forgiving. I don't know the trails. The trails are generally have bigger features and are much longer. And I'm doing rides that last for many hours day after day.
The obvious answer is to have two bikes (or move somewhere with better trails on the doorstep but work sucks) but then you end up with a big bike spending a lot of the year not doing anything as opposed to a shock not doing anything (and maybe a spare set of wheels). Plus I just don't have the space for a bike to just sit there.
Maybe I should just figure out how to move to Northern Italy...
Weren't the original Scott genius' adjustable travel and lockout?
Of how about the briefly produced Kona magic link bikes?
Looks like the Ibis Ripley and Ripmo are the same frame with different shock link
I'm not sure it's worth it?
What's the advantages of a shorter travel bike? Lighter, well that's not going to happen with a travel adjustment bike, if anything it'll be heavier than the equivalent bike of it's max travel to accommodate whichever system it uses.
More efficient climbing via less sag and / bob, a climb switch or lock out it going to be a better solution I think.
I think it's a solution looking for a problem.
What's the advantages of a shorter travel bike?
As I said above, being overbiked on your local trails is not much fun. Being underbiked on your away days is fun but very tiring and unforgiving of mistakes.
Having two bikes is one solution (although having a bike that barely gets ridden most of the year is depressing and then you have to negotiate with the family if space is limited).
Moving somewhere with awesome riding on your doorstep is another (I'm working on it).
Failing that, having one bike with a second shock and a second set of wheels seems like it could be a decent compromise.
I've converted my 140/150mm Rocky Mountain Instinct trail bike into the 160/170mm Altitude for Alps trips. As they have the same frame, you just need a shock mount for about £75, longer shock (I got a coil on eBay for £150) and a 170mm air shaft for the fork (pretty easy swap to make once you've done it once and bought a few tools).
The different shock mount changes the stock geometry of the bike, which with the flip chip and chainstay (and now reach) adjustability lets you mess around with it loads. You can even go mullet.
I set myself a limit of £500 for the Alps conversion (inc. tyres) and it worked a treat.
Having two bikes is one solution (although having a bike that barely gets ridden most of the year is depressing and then you have to negotiate with the family if space is limited).
Assuming you've got the space, a secondhand second bike? Reduces the feeling of a bike 'sitting there doing little to nothing'. I know, I feel the same: prefer my local trails on a short-travel bike, but I also enjoy the occasional weekend ride on chunkier trails and the odd overseas trip.
My 'nice' bike is my short-travel one I use most of the time. My 'big' bike is less fancy and is based around second/third hand Geometron frames (bonus of Geometrons is older/less expensive ones still have modern geometry, and built like brickshithouses). Not as valuable so less painful if it sits unused much of the time. Also less painful for any damage that's more likely from chairlifts or uplifts or simply hooning it over lumpy stuff that'd have me wincing if I was on my nice bike.
I admit there's a fair bit of man maths-style justification involved in the above.
Something like this (just an example) for £1.3k: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256957686951
Lots of brilliant, modern bikes available used around that price at the mo.
Personally, I've recently moved from having a sturdy big bike that I didn't really enjoy riding locally, to a lighter (used) carbon enduro bike that pedals pretty much as well as my 140mm bike.
Maybe I'm lucky to have local trails that can just about justify an enduro bike, but it's good to feel like all my bikes will get regular use now.
Vampire bikes have a 3 travel bike without changing anything else:
https://www.vampire.bike/products/fastarossa-frame
Assuming you've got the space, a secondhand second bike?
Yeah, I don't have the space. I have an aversion to selling bikes and a knack for 'repurposing' my old bikes. Especially now that the kids are getting older. My son is currently riding my old Dialled Alpine (it actually works well as a kids bike from a geometry POV) which prior to that I was running singlespeed and using 100mm forks on it so it was my Jump bike. Soon he'll be moving up to my Mk1 Santa Cruz Nomad. Until now I've had 24" trials rims and 3" Duro tyres on it and I used it as a snow bike.
My first ever mountain bike (97 Orange P7) was my gravel bike and now it's my son's commuter.
I have a singlespeed On One Inbred that is falling between two stools at the moment and isn't getting used much. Although I prefer to use that one when I go out with my youngest as it keeps things interesting.
Saying all that, if a Geometron came up locally at a good price I'd buy that in a second 🙂
Whoops