[Closed] Are vans better offroad than cars ?

Vans have a ground clearance advantage over cars, get some all seasons tyres on to help a bit with mud.

Pickups are never the answer, unless you're a tree surgeon or something.

front wheel drive vans are good - rear wheel drive are useless unless fully loaded.

so when you go through 2 ruts, you end up scraping the crap out of the bottom end and even occasionally getting slight somewhat stuck.

There isnt much legal offroad/off highway stuff in the UK - surely you'd park somewhere sensible then use a form of transport to access beyond parking. Maybe something like a bicycle?

just get something with a bit more ground clearance, like a dacia mcv stepway or an volvo xc 70 or a subaru outback. + all season tyres.

I've used the car floor mats on the ground to get out of a muddy pickle before. If you have some old carpet make a boot protector in two halves that you can use in an emergency.

pickups are awful at everything, and blunt instrument for a bit of mud.

The problem with pick ups is the back seats have no legroom but because they’re there (as opposed to an old school 2/3 seat pick up) the cargo space in the back is too small to be practical.

Also anything you put in the back is visible and hard to secure, put a locked box in the back and people know you’ve got stuff in there to nick.

Vans tend to have more clearance than cars but RWD vans (such as my old Sprinter have terrible traction because there’s no weight over the back wheels. My FWD Transit Custom has much better traction on snowy roads but if you’re going off road it really comes down to the tyres.

Can you not just fit a different tow bar with more clearance?

PS- Vans are great

There isnt much legal offroad/off highway stuff in the UK – surely you’d park somewhere sensible then use a form of transport to access beyond parking. Maybe something like a bicycle?

When you turn up to a race you're directed into a field etc... It's not really a choice thing, you go where you're put. Sometimes it's OK, sometimes like at Gawton last weekend, it really wasn't easy.

My FWD Transit Custom has much better traction on snowy roads

A mate in Ukraine has a Octavia but the roads are so shit he has a sump please and some sort on lift kit to give him an extra 5cm maybe. Add some decent tyres and should make a difference

Yeah, much more ground clearance, unless a previous owner has gone all 'scene' and lowered it.
But bike race carparks are a special kind of no-grip slop, so factor in some better tyres too.

30mm lift kit
Front strut spacers 30mm for Ford GALAXY MONDEO

If we're taking muddy fields rather than off-roading, I have found that our T5 camper is much better at traversing boggy campsites than normal cars seem to be. I think it's to do with better clearance, bigger wheels/tyres, and the ability to move away purely on the diesel tickover, so it's a very gentle power delivery. Indeed, it has been christened The Power of Chug.

My Transit has better ground clearance than my Mondeo had but is heavier and is RWD.
So it's better on dry rutted Landrover tracks but worse in wet muddy fields

How weird. My impression of my T5, which I've had for 16 years, is that it is dismal off road. So much so that I won't countenance grassy campsites unless they are bone dry

Definitely not a pick-up unless you have a general dislike for paying tax and want a tax-dodge - ground clearance is good but poor seating for any rear passengers and very poor cargo space that makes pinching things rather easy - no access to rear of the vehicle from inside the cabin and unless you stick a towball carrier on, your bikes are going to be hanging over the sides/end and get rubbed and bumped.
Cars are also good but you then need to consider how everything is carried, vans tend to be more practical for that kind of thing as generally the bikes get put in the back, the humans get in the front and front-middle and you drive off.
I'm all for a van - ground clearance tends to be better but depends on the size as a near empty van is likely to have less traction control. For what you have described I'd be looking for a van that hasn't been adjusted for a 'scene'...

I have no desire to go down the van scene route.

If i were to go for a van it would be a simple Trafic type thing. The only stumbling block on that one is the wifes hatred of vans.

STW issue Octavia Scout with some winter tyres on?

When you turn up to a race you’re directed into a field etc… It’s not really a choice thing, you go where you’re put. Sometimes it’s OK, sometimes like at Gawton last weekend, it really wasn’t easy.

I thought you might have been the Mondeo equivalent to heli-boarding whilst searching for the elusive Instagram worthy brown-pow.

FWD diesel engined van on skinny standard wheels with correct load rated all season/MS/BFG All terrain's.

Peugeot Partner Escapade - 30mm raised suspension compared to its identical Berlingo, big steel sump as standard and Dakar worthy headlight grilles. I've just bought a 2.0HDI minter.

must be all the extra weight in that t5 camper, my T5 is better now with winter tyres on but it will still spin a wheel pretty easily.

My rwd Toyota Hiace spins out on a wet tissue.

On a horrendously muddy work site field last year my Trafic on winter tyres never got stuck in 3 weeks. The only other vehicles that were the same were Landrovers or pick ups.

I'm in no way a pick-up evangelist, but my company Navara has room for full size adults in the back. I got a roller shutter thing fitted which makes the bed reasonably secure and bikes will fit in with the front wheels off (although I do use a towbar rack). They are hopeless in mud with the standard tyres, but 4WD helps, obviously. I've fitted Pirelli Scorpions which are much better and reasonably quiet and stable. All that said, I'm retiring soon and looking forward to having a normal car again!

Pickups look great but its so much nicer getting back to the van getting inside when its peeing down and they have a lot more room if you buy a medium side one onwards also when the roads are a bit flooded vans are better not owned a car in 16 years only had vans.

Peugeot Partner Escapade – 30mm raised suspension compared to its identical Berlingo, big steel sump as standard and Dakar worthy headlight grilles. I’ve just bought a 2.0HDI minter.

Removable rear seats in those?

I'm itching to buy a van, they just make life better and I really miss having one. The problem is that even ropey old Trafic's and Vivaro's have doubled in price.

To answer the OP...No vans are not better off road than cars. They might have more ground clearance which is an advantage but then it's all about tyres. My T5 used to get stuck in any moist grass if the ground was soft. It was useless. Current Yeti on all season tyres has chugged through some knee deep slop with no issues. It's actually hilarious.

Vans are also great for throwing motorbikes in Weeksy

Oh i'm very much aware of that Colp and the trackday side of things would make our own van a LOT eaiser... Although i do have a motorbike trailer, still, a van would be better and easier.

Pickups look great but....

🤐

What does your wife hate about vans?
Nice high driving position and pretty much all are comfy on a long journey. SWB fits parking spaces and probably the same footprint as your mondeo.

Nice high driving position and pretty much all are comfy on a long journey

Got to be 2 seats up front though - a bench is always terrible

iirc my old SWB T5 was 5cm longer than my current mk4 Mondeo estate, so basically the same but the Mondeo can definitely get into more carparks

She has her own Focus on a 20 plate so it's not a parking/driving etc. It's more from the rare times we'd use it for family trips and they'd be cramped and indeed noisy in her opinion. She's done enough van trips to track to know these to be true.... as nice as modern vans are, they're not as quiet as cars for sure.

Think of Morzine trips for example. Although she's not coming next year as she's going to Croatia to a dance music festival for 7 days lol.

You need a LWB combi then.. assuming the load length is fine for your bikes.

they’d be cramped

Not sure where that's coming from, your Mondeo is pokey inside when compared the likes of a Kombi. Noise can be helped with a bulkhead, but then you lose in other ways of course.

I found driving our vans (Vito then T5) to the Alps better than taking a car. You can actually properly change you're seating position to keep comfortable as you've so much extra room everywhere.

Van clearance is much better than a car. My T6 has much more clearance than any car I've had previously, it hasn't been lowered though

Don't know if it's better offroad than other FWD cars, my last few cars have all been RWD. I'd probably take more of a chance in the van than any of my cars previously. Have had a go through a few deep puddles that looked more sketchy on a car than a van

4 motion is available in a transporter, diff locks are also available from the factory

Not sure where that’s coming from, your Mondeo is pokey inside when compared the likes of a Kombi

20+ years of hiring vans 5-10 times a year for trackdays ?

It's still wrong though. I went from T5 Kombi to Mondeo estate, Kombi is vastly bigger inside before you even look at the load space. If you've been hiring panel vans with bulkheads then that's a whole different issue

I know where you are coming from. A regular panel van feels pokey because of the bulkhead right behind your seat. A combi feels more like a big car as you are sat in a big volume with the bulkhead (if you have one) a good distance back from you.

Isn't this the answer to any "What car" thread? Maybe I have the wrong forum.

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonheads/mazda-mx-5-monster-miata-readers-car-of-the-we/39991

More seriously how about a Skoda Yeti 4x4, very capable, very practical and still very fuel efficient

They also handle well on road https://www.evo.co.uk/skoda/yeti

If you’ve been hiring panel vans with bulkheads then that’s a whole different issue

But that's what i'd be buying if i went for a van ?

pffft, look at that ridiculous mx5. Vans, far more sensible.

But that’s what i’d be buying if i went for a van ?

Squeezing all three of you up front every time you do a family trip? Stuff that, you’re wife’s onto something

Squeezing all three of you up front every time you do a family trip? Stuff that, you’re wife’s onto something

It's honestly quite rare. The only time really is the family holiday, anything else we could take her Focus. But obviously for a MTB trip we need bikes too. Which means the Mondeo (multiple over the years) has been the vehicle of choice. But this year it's shown a few limitations.

How about a new mondeo? they come lifted now.

A mate in Ukraine Called DrP has a Octavia but the roads are so shit he still thinks he's a kid he has a sump please and some sort on lift Lowering kit to give him an extra 5cm maybe drop of 3.5cm . Added some decent tyres though and should make a difference

HA!

I did actually get my Octy lowered (and remapped), but also have cross climates.
TBH, it makes gentle field and track entry like a little off-road adventure...
Like riding a CX bike down a rutty trail..it's nice to be underbiked/car'd..

DrP

as nice as modern vans are, they’re not as quiet as cars for sure.

They are if you spend £50 on flashing from Screwfix.

The back seats of my transit custom is bigger and roomier than our SUV. You can fit 2 swivelling toddler seats and an adult comfortably in the middle. Not found a car that could do that. Plus modern vans are really nice (you get what you pay for, buy a low spec car or van and you won’t get the nice trim and spec levels, including soundproofing, AC etc)

Lots of pheasant shoots round our way and a friend used to go along with his two working dogs regularly. He mentioned a few years back that a lot of the posh shootin' and fishin' countryfolk were dropping their Range Rovers / Land Rovers / Discos for the Skoda Yeti 4x4 as a more practical option with lower running costs. These were people spending plenty of time in fields and mud each weekend over the winter, and they bought on practicality and VFM.

That said, the car park at Peaslake is rammed every weekend with T5s, so there must be a reason.

Bear in mind you're talking about a 300-yard-ish drive there and back at the end of a lot more miles to get to the site, as well as weekday use. If I was in your shoes, a high end used Yeti 4x4 would probably be what I was shopping for.

We bought a 4x4 Yeti about 6 months ago. It's the 170bhp one so like a warm hatch but a bit higher and wobblier. It's only Golf size inside though. Tiny compared to a Mondeo. Fully removable seats are a bonus but it's still not very long. The high, square boot is handy.

As I said before, we've already been slithering around in some absolute grease pits and it was fine. Michelin Cross Climate tyres. We've got the off road pack with the underbody protection which is good as I've already heard a few hefty dings!

I would have bought an Octavia Scout and was actively hunting one but it's for the Mrs really and she preferred the Yeti. I'd snap your hand off for a Transit Custom if we could find a suitcase with 20 grand in it.

I find vans pretty cramped. I'm aware that the rear seats can technically be further back but generally you sit really upright with your knees at right angles and nowhere to lounge back and relax. Compared to a car where you sit with your legs in front of you, I find the seated position of the car to be more spacious and comfortable, regardless of the interior volume. Vans are also way noisier, due to less sound deadening and a large, echo-ey space behind.

I find the opposite, especially for long distances. I can comfortably drive 1000miles in 2 days in my Vito. 100 miles in my wife’s BMW kills me.
My Vito is quieter too. Vito Tourer v 335d M Sport

I've never been in a quiet van yet. My Mondeo is a lovely place to be. Just at times a bit dubious on where we can go or not.

Maybe we just need a bit more planning and thought on where we do or don't park

When you turn up to a race you’re directed into a field etc… It’s not really a choice thing, you go where you’re put. Sometimes it’s OK, sometimes like at Gawton last weekend, it really wasn’t easy.

Presumably, then you can look around the fields and see who else is struggling and who is doing remarkably well and go from there? I know when I've organised events with "in field" parking we've put proper motorhomes in a separate area with the least risk of getting stuck, and left it up to the T5s etc to make their own mind up if they were motorhomes or vans.

Our criteria was how sure are we can push/tow everyone out if we need to.

My Renault Master is front wheel drive and has Maxxis mud and snow tyres. Traction is terrible. I've got stuck three times in not very muddy fields that my Maxda 6 just breezed through on Cross Climates. I grew up driving off road so I know what I'm doing, but I ended up buying a winch for the Renault.

My van....

and when the quad breaks down it gets pressed into service feeding the sheep!

[img] [/img]

RustyNissanPrairie
Full Member
front wheel drive vans are good – rear wheel drive are useless unless fully loaded.

@RustyNissanPrairie Wooah there! I won't have that said - they're bloody excellent for drifting around a wet roundabout! I spent my late teens drifting stationary and IT supplies around West Cumbria.

I then drove onto a patch of wet grass (only 2 side wheels) for my lunch and it got stuck...buried itself up to its rear axle.

Does Welshfarmer's video cut there as it got stuck? 😉

That said, the car park at Peaslake is rammed every weekend with T5s, so there must be a reason.

Aye, the reason being they're all stuck in there.

Our T5 on normal tyres wasn't the best on wet grass. Not had a chance to test our Transit Custom on all-seasons on anything more than a wet campsite, but it found amazing traction in the snow towing our caravan out of the campsite at Loch Morlich and back into Aviemore.

IMO tyres are a big part of it.

DickBarton wrote:

Does Welshfarmer’s video cut there as it got stuck?

😉 let's just say I wasn't able to make anymore progress in that direction. I was able to reverse out though. Trouble was the main ruts to the left had been dug by Landrovers and were far to deep for the van, while the route I was on meant I had to avoid a tree stump and was unable to turn left back beyond the deepest ruts. In the end I had to get the front of the van winched around a few feet to the left to allow me to carry on and out. This was a t a camp with my seriously hard-core off-roading mates, and everyone of them was mightily impressed with just how capable the T5 was.

Bad and pickups same tax situation. No dodging going on.

If i were to go for a van it would be a simple Trafic type thing. The only stumbling block on that one is the wifes hatred of vans.

Huge differences in ground clearance depending on specific vans and models...
Also there is ground clearance and ground clearance... i.e. delicate bits vs not so delicate. (Plenty of vans the suspension struts drop very low but you can afford to scrape over something)

My Traffic H2 is high.. suspension also copes with places like the rogate car park much better. (For example)

All uplifts I know ONLY use RWD they have a trailer and 10-15 passengers so YMMV (MPG also poorer on RWD)

Squeezing all three of you up front every time you do a family trip? Stuff that, you’re wife’s onto something

No squeezing is required with the Trafic/Vivaro ... can't speak for other vans but I'm sure many are fine only issue is lack of cup holds for the central seat. (Had a 3XL mate in the passenger and Ollie in the middle)

I’ve never been in a quiet van yet. My Mondeo is a lovely place to be. Just at times a bit dubious on where we can go or not.

as nice as modern vans are, they’re not as quiet as cars for sure.

£400-£600 in sound deadening works wonders though you might as well add insulation whilst you're at it. Vans start off with none (or close)... a layer of low freq. and a layer of high freq. and they are quieter than most cars that usually have some.
(Mine is Dodo 12mm over Hex roll) https://www.deadening.co.uk/collections/cld-sound-deadening-mats?gclid=CjwKCAiAp8iMBhAqEiwAJb94zwLNcdcVIMMt1AZ5GASAbYTF-4BKbc4QL_BpH9EyCFXuHEYTKqNqXhoCrJMQAvD_BwE

It won't be Bentley/RR level though unless you pay for double glazed windows as well.

But obviously for a MTB trip we need bikes too.

We can really only get 3 bikes in the SWB if we sleep in it and can't be bothered to take the wheels off, any more and the projector screen is blocked. Day trips however I've done 7 bikes .. without taking any wheels off. (1x Kenevo, 3 Bird FS, 1 HT, 2 DJ + 1 XXL, me and Ollie)

The fording depth on a Sprinter isn't as big as you would think. Or as much as the Citylink driver thought it was🤣
Turns out air filters are good at catching alge though

let’s just say I wasn’t able to make anymore progress in that direction. I was able to reverse out though.

That does look like a challenge, I suspect I'd get less than halfway across the bit you were driving forward on, so happy to make fun of better drivers.

Fiat Panda 4x4 with towbar rack for the win

RWD is good for towing big things.

Remember that Mondeos were designed for fat middle aged men to use as rep/company cars so they’re comfy and well soundproofed (with about 400 cup holders).
Although I am a van convert and have had more vans than cars in the last 25 years I would say that if you’re not going to use it as a van very often then you’d be better off with a car as they mpg is better and cheaper to service, etc.

It’s all about the tyres. We have friends who live in Morzine and they reckon their old Megane with snow tyres is better than most UK people who rock up to ski in their fancy 4WD Chelsea tractors with standard tyres on.

Also vans are more expensive spec for spec in my opinion and most people are comparing the basic van model against better equipped cars as they cost the same.

If you’re going to use a van, it’s your money and not the wife’s and she has her own car then go for it. If she doesn’t like it then she can drive her own.

£500 Octavia 4x4 estate seemed to go most places the work hilux's could go, but not where the Land Rover would. Bit vulnerable to ripping off its exhaust at the flexi, but mostly satisfied the need to not slow down too much on farm and forestry tracks. Usually parked it in ditches or hedges due to a rubbish handbrake and always drove out.

Don't think the Vito I have now would, but good clearance and much improved traction on Cross Climates.

DickBarton wrote:

Ah so a rear-wheel drive van works well in some circumstances as well then!

The van is 4WD and has a difflock in the rear axle.

Check out my winter tyre test on my old BMW if you want to see how well RWD works when it gets a bit slick. Remember folks, the worse the roads get, the more important the choice of tyres becomes. With the right tyres and suitable driving style, just about any vehicle will have the ability to surprise you just where it will go.

Not sure if this link will work.... 🙂

Merc V Class fixes all the things that are rubbish about van interiors but is RWD.

Fiat Panda 4×4 with towbar rack for the win

There's a good YouTube channel for the UK Panda 4x4 club. They go to some amazing places in them.

Probably not what Weeksy wants for a weekend's mtb racing though.

For the more extreme events, such as Southern Enduros, or Pedalhounds you really need a Unimog or at least a 4x4 with a winch and associated land anchors and elasticated tow

Subaru Outback here for the last 4 years and a legacy before that for 2. Decent tyres are your friend. Yoko geolandar for mucky stuff, maxxis premitra or Nokian seasonproof (used to be weatherproof) for better economy and more road use. I got the legacy in and out of sloppy mud on Kumho Ecstas. Good old low range. Bikes in the back no problem. Don’t expect mondeo mpg.

I don't know if Vans are better than cars, but they're not as good as Converse.

if you want to drive off road 4wd and ground clearance are the most useful things to have, i’d say. oh, and more suitable tyres.

a subaru outback, forester or cross trek (not the correct spelling) would fit the bill.

edit, but if you want a van, Mitsubishi Delica is 4x4

Surely the answer is a VW Caddy Maxi Life 4motion on CrossClimates?

No bulkhead makes it feel bigger than the Mondeo, drives (almost) like a car, 4wd only when you really need it, and CrossClimates are M&S-marked in addition to being great in every other weather. Job done 😁

Ah so a rear-wheel drive van works well in some circumstances as well then

Depends ... welshfarmer has a trailer on.. all uplifts I know use RWD only.

The other part is other than tyres ground clearance. If you can keep moving (because you don't need to stop and see if you can get over the tree stump etc.) or get through ruts without scraping the undercarriage you can get through a lot of stuff. Equally you can stop on a steep slightly muddy tarmac road and be buggered.

My FWD nearly got stuck on this just because the front wheels had no weight on them. (Clearance either side was <2cm so not pleasant). Forgot I had the limited slip diff in the panic but got over eventually... someone else damaged the bridge... but first pic I found going across it)

I don’t know if Vans are better than cars, but they’re not as good as Converse.

I'm dissapointed with both, vans don't fit well, and converse shouldn't cost more than £15.

I think you’d be fine with a pickup if you’re considering one. Mine (older Ranger) has been solid at carrying bikes and has never struggled in mud.