Anecdata but I'd say the majority (75%?) of rider/groups I see in the Cotswolds since moving here at the start of the year are on e-bikes. Groups of 4-8 riders with all or 90% on e-bikes are common on a Saturday/Sunday on the mix of waymarked, trad and cheeky XC trails. Solo XC riders on non-Es are far less common. I probably notice the e-bikes and groups mre though, so it's a skewed impression. Certainly a common thing locally. In the Chilterns previously I saw relatively few e-bikes, but it's not so steep so often there.
I think mainstream MTB will be a powered sport in time and it'll leave unpowered, mainly XC riding as a niche. The more entry prices come down, the more it'll be the case.
one of the reason I love mountain biking is the fitness aspect, but E-bikes are just a hoot. I can totally get why folks buy them.
Same here. I can see me owning an XCO type bike and an E-enduro bike, 2 polar opposite MTBs. I just can't quite make the jump to anything as complex as an average E-FS.
I think mainstream MTB will be a powered sport in time and it’ll leave unpowered, mainly XC riding as a niche.
Could you define both of those terms for me as I perhaps don't see them as being much different. Do you think that mainstream = winch and plummet?
I think you see more ebikes when you’re on a normal bike because they’re so much quicker uphill, especially on trails that are more one-way (like woodland rides where you claim the fire roads and descent the singletrack). So if there are equal numbers of e and normal bikes it’ll seem like there are more ebikes based on what a normal MTBer sees. I’ve felt quite embarrassed lapping people repeatedly on mine.
I’m coming round to four years of eMTB ownership - used for daily commuting on and off-road and a fair bit of proper MTB rides. My other MTB is now a singlespeed hardtail - rubbish for commuting because it spins out on the flatter road bits but brilliant fun for proper MTBing.
Curiously I found a normal full-sus annoyingly slow compared to an e-full-sus, so that got sold and I kept my hardtail which felt so much more efficient. The singlespeed is better still because, like the ebike on turbo, it wants you to go fast all the time. Not sure how my legs will fare on longer (over 3 hour) rides but it’s a fun challenge!
I'll have one in the next couple of years I reckon. I'll just keep hiring them for the time being as they're too expensive at the mo.
So much fun and would allow for so much descending in a day without an uplift.
I think they’re great enabling technologies for those that really need them but loads of people just don’t.
This is really the issue for me and I know it's "elitist" but I really don't think a fair chunk of those adopting eMTBS need them. How often do we see threads on here where people are mulling getting an eeb, not because they're unfit but because they have a group of eeb riding mates to keep up with...
I can't help thinking that if eMTBS become seen as the "default" that the whole "barrier to entry" will go from fitness and enthusiasm to financial firepower.
The interesting thing I've noticed (anecdotal of course) is ivet seen less of them at cheeky local trails or on "boring" longer bridal paths, instead eMTBs seem to be drawn more towards busier trail centres and the like. I do wonder if their main victim will be uplifts, surely being able to breeze up on battery power means you won't be paying to sit in a sweaty old transit...
The reality is that eMTBs are a thing now and will certainly be latched onto by the new-golfers and car park bitches. Those of us usi g boring old Human muscles to move our bikes about probably are going to bee seen as outliers by some, but I think there is something a bit more honest about a conventional bicycle for me. I still think you should "earn your turns" if you can...
The interesting thing I’ve noticed (anecdotal of course) is ivet seen less of them at cheeky local trails or on “boring” longer bridal paths, instead eMTBs seem to be drawn more towards busier trail centres and the like.
I was wondering if this is what @jameso was meaning.
The reality is that eMTBs are a thing now and will certainly be latched onto by the new-golfers and car park bitches. Those of us usi g boring old Human muscles to move our bikes about probably are going to bee seen as outliers by some, but I think there is something a bit more honest about a conventional bicycle for me. I still think you should “earn your turns” if you can…
I find the total opposite around here.
It's the experienced skilled riders that are looking past the preconceptions and realising how much more descending you can fit into a cheeky mid week afternoon ride and taking full advantage of what that brings to your riding skills.
As I've also said though no one I know has given up on riding a manual bike as well as it has it's advantages in certain situations over an eeb.
This is really the issue for me and I know it’s “elitist” but I really don’t think a fair chunk of those adopting eMTBS need them.
Do you [b]need gear, suspension, disc brakes[/b]
Of course you don't but they sure bring a whole lot more enjoyment to a ride.
All riding all good in my view.
I genuinely don't get what the problem is.
It's just people pissing about on bikes in the woods.
singlespeedstu
Do you need gear, suspension, disc brakes
Of course you don’t but they sure bring a whole lot more enjoyment to a ride.All riding all good in my view.
I genuinely don’t get what the problem is.
It’s just people pissing about on bikes in the woods.
Perfectly put, many of us can remember the advent of suspension and disk brakes, the anger that provoked was immense, I know people that have got into cycling through e-bikes as the hills scared them but now own other non e-bikes as their fitness came on really quickly. Plus as you said I know some very handy mountain bikers who use them a lot just because they can hone their skills even more on the fun stuff.
Do you need gear, suspension, disc brakes
These things make regular mountain bikes perform better and more reliably (typically) but they don’t fundamentally change the way that locomotion occurs.
For me, cycling is people powered but I get that other people don’t agree. I am by no means anti e bike in all circumstances but am surprised how common ebikes are getting with young/ish people even on tame/fairly flat trails.
And I do absolutely see how they can enable more riding/descending to get done in less time. I image an e bike would be very handy during interseason in the Alps when the lifts ain’t on. But as I mentioned previously making access to repeated sessioning of trails easier has potential detrimental impact in some (non trail centre) contexts.
I don’t remember any anger related to mtb suspension or disc brakes when they were introduced. Hydraulic discs were a godsend, even if they were a crock of crap by today’s standards.
To go back to the OPs original question…
I really hope that mountain biking doesn’t become motor powered by default.
Anyone who thinks the e-MTBs referenced by the OP are reducing car miles is probably mistaken.
I used to drive to my nearest decent riding spot. Now I ride the 9 miles each way to ride with my mates, usually do around 27 miles total, sometimes 3 times a week.
My friends in Austria recently both got E MTBs. Now they hardly use the car as they can go on the bikes into the local village to shop etc and back up the hill.
As for the line about having to slog up hills to develop the necessary skills to ride, do you think the teenage DH riders and slopestyle riders did that? What about the BMXers whose skills wipe the floor with most MTBers?
Most MTBers just get on a bike and pedal, never practice skills. Emtbs are perfect tools for sessioning stuff which is how you learn to really ride, not grinding up a hill.
Robz TBH anger was the wrong word. Ridicule was more like it.
Not yet.
I enjoy the suffering.
I spoke to one of my colleagues today who was astounded that I cycle 8 miles to and from work on the flat each day. I think what we (regular mountain bikers) think is a acceptable mileage, and what an average civilian thinks is doable is probably further apart than we often think
I had that when I changed GP practice. The nurse was amazed at the mileage I'd done that week.
Probably because I look like and weigh like I should ride an E-bike.
The bicycle as a machine is a very efficient way of getting about. An e-bicycle is, to my mind an extension of that.
If I could use one to Access trails further away without driving, then awesome.
I think some forget what most people are prepared to spend on a pushbike. Some of us may think nothing of dropping a weeks wages on a wheelset. The majority not so much.
You are definitely likely to meet Ebikes on the trail as they go faster so will catch up. A bicycle will likely travel slower and not catch up unless there's a big fitness/faffing offset.
I have a few reasons why I won't buy an E-bike in the near future, but that's another thread.
I've just bought a moderately priced ebike. Last week. Fab spec for the money. Can't fault it.
I saved hard. Treated myself.
Allows me to go round my local loops quicker. Loads quicker. With more ease. I can do it after working a night shift. I can go out for 40 mins after the kids have gone to bed and return and have my wife go out for exercise without impacting on her time. Vice versa.
Young kids so someone has to be home and we both want to get some kind of time out the house after work/kids.
Allows me to squeeze riding into our busy family life.
I can now go on an epic ride early sun morn and be back in half the time and be present. What's not to like.
Am I lazy and fat? I've got a beer belly. I've noted I've ridden more year on year since making a Strava account in 2014. I'm reasonably fit and can do full day in the saddle.
Is it a proper workout? Nah, it's like going for a strenuous walk. At the most.
Will I stop riding normal bikes? I'm going bpw next week on the full suss. I adore my hardtail and rode that with a friend today. Nimble nimble nimble, So no.
Did I fall for marketing and not really need one? No. It's a game changer for those who have to ride a few miles before trails and who don't have guilt free time on tap.
I wouldn't want the sport to become ebikes only but I'm a true convert.
I have an ebike.....
I use it when traveling locally and don't want to arrive sweaty....
Is it my.default....nah too bloody slow if there isn't a substantial hill involved or a child in a trailer.
Colleague has a chipped fancy specialised roadie...... Says it does 20 mph- I'll debate that as it doesn't take much effort on the road bike to leave him behind
Could you define both of those terms for me as I perhaps don’t see them as being much different. Do you think that mainstream = winch and plummet?
I wasn't a very clear with the terms there - by mainstream I mean the image portrayed by the brands and media, the bikes that are seen as aspired to and the image most riders align to. The zeitgeist of MTB perhaps. The flow of fun trails and the descents more than the climbs and distance. Maybe not quite winch + plummet as mainstream but certainly seeing a lot of that locally. Mainstream MTB aspirations will be for e-MTBs more so in future than now, and now they're more aspir3ed to than they were a few years ago. As the bikes get better and prices of good ones drops they will replace unpowered MTBs in new bike sales reports.
This is talking about the side of MTB where riders are spending a fair bit on bikes and travel to destinations etc. That's all more on the trail/enduro side where bikes tend to be bought for the biggest days out they'll do rather than the averages or being as light and efficient as possible. Knee pads and skills progression, 140mm+ FS and so on.
By XC riding I mean longer rides and the fitness aspect - the XC that seems a bit roadie and not very exciting to many MTBers.
Easy to pick holes in generalisations like that of course, and it's all blurred at the edges. You could do a 90 min XC ride in the Tweed valley on some quite 'enduro' trails and it'd be close to an XC WC round.
I suppose I see a 'gap jump' happening where the riders who can afford £3-4k for a trad MTB are making up the price gap up to an e-MTB to enable more descending per ride, since mainstream MTB is about the fun, buzz, social and the descents. E-MTBs make the climbs more fun and a new type of challenge.
E-MTBs also have the social advantage in levelling up a group and the move towards e-MTB in a group is a pull that's aiding sales.
^ That's about the 'today's MTBs default' part of the OP, the bikes being presented by brands, rather than current rider culture since we might have a lag when we own bikes 2-5 years before replacing.
I don’t remember any anger related to mtb suspension or disc brakes when they were introduced.
Are you kidding? both suspension/rigid and the flat bar vs riser bar "debate" needed UN levels of mediation for some posters on here, and don't get me started on disc brake vs Vee brakes, or square taper vs HT2...Lordy
But those innovations became commonplace way before the singletrack forum.
I had suspension forks (marzocchi Zokes) and riser bars (club roost) in like 1996 and I think I got my first hope disc brakes in 1997.
Square taper to hollowtech 2 etc was also a no brainer innovation.
Again all these developments improved technology that was inferior (for actual real mountain biking).
All were games changers. Remember, people on here argue about anything and everything. I was talking about the real world, where everyone I knew or met at races were delighted to ditch cantis, Magura hydraulics, v brakes, square taper cranks and rigid forks.
I think they’re great enabling technologies for those that really need them but loads of people just don’t.
This is really the issue for me and I know it’s “elitist” but I really don’t think a fair chunk of those adopting eMTBS need them.
I know I'm biting and it's the usual +/- topic on e-bikes.. Why do we have to 'need' one? Aren't we over all that yet?
For a lot of riders it's just buying into a different experience. No matter how fit you are they can be hard work to ride and you'll do more descending in an average short to mid-distance ride on an e-MTB. There's a good chance that e-MTBer is simply a better rider than you + I technically, plenty of e-MTBers out there on a given day who'll embarrass most of us uphill and downhill when they're on an unpowered bike.
It's a grown-ups toy, we buy bikes because they're fun and we're lucky enough to have spare time and money.
The interesting thing I’ve noticed (anecdotal of course) is ivet seen less of them at cheeky local trails or on “boring” longer bridal paths, instead eMTBs seem to be drawn more towards busier trail centres and the like.
I was wondering if this is what @jameso was meaning.
Not so much location or natural/trail centre, I was talking more about the default new bikes, brand's ranges etc and how e-bikes line up with MTB's general image.
fwiw locally I see the most e-bikes on the steep cheeky DH/singletrack trails and the connecting 'boring' bridleways. That's my kind of XC but I put less emphasis on speed down the steep stuff, ride fewer laps or loops than the e-bikers before I'm cooked and I ride byways and easy stuff from home and to connect more of the steeper areas. Whereas many of the e-bikers drive to the best spots to start and stay in that area. A bit more trail centred then. Cultural or simply based on where we live? A bit of both I expect. I like the 'boring' bridleways and riding to/from the spots : )
Are you kidding? both suspension/rigid and the flat bar vs riser bar “debate” needed UN levels of mediation for some posters on here, and don’t get me started on disc brake vs Vee brakes, or square taper vs HT2…Lordy
And they were just the qualifiers for The Wheel Size Debate..
But those innovations became commonplace way before the singletrack forum.
You say that like you seem to think there was logic behind people arguing the toss about anything on here. 🙂
To the OP, if you asked a random in the street to describe a mountain bike, I reckon we’re still a long way off them saying ‘knobbly tyres, suspension and an engine’ levels of default features.
I have an ebike…..I use it when traveling locally and don’t want to arrive sweaty….
Is it my.default….nah too bloody slow if there isn’t a substantial hill involved or a child in a trailer.
This is us too (apart from the child bit, we don't have kids). Brill for popping to the shops with a pannier or a trailer for heavy stuff that you can't (be arsed) to carry on foot. We don't have a car (it was stolen so we decided to spend some of the insurance settlement on a couple of Tongsheng kits for our hardtails rather than get back on the PITA merry-go-round of used cars, insurance, MOTs, tax etc., not to mention the horror of actually driving anywhere now) For skids and wheelies and pedalling faster than 25km/h we both have meat-powered bouncy bikes. I would [i]love[/i] a go a on a nice FS ebike though.
E-bikes are a great enabler, I had a ride up to my mam's during the week and saw loads of older people out and about on them (possibly rather than in cars?), that's got to be A Good Thing, surely?
@jameso - thanks for the reply. Aligns with my thoughts/observations. I have friends who have both powered and non-powered bikes and their choice on any given day does split along similar lines.
As regards costs, I'm amused that folk are quoting £3 - 4,000 bikes as being "not expensive" and some sort of bargain.
I think the genius of ebikes is that they left the pedals on.
It allows people to cosplay at cycling and avoid the reality of what they're actually doing.
well put Copa
It allows people to cosplay at cycling and avoid the reality of what they’re actually doing.
Roadie : )
As regards costs, I’m amused that folk are quoting £3 – 4,000 bikes as being “not expensive” and some sort of bargain.
Me too tbh. Dunno about a bargain but for a keen rider it's not the 'high end' anymore? It's where e-FS-MTB seems to start.
Those of you complaining about ebikes causing erosion. I hope you have mudguards on and ride thru not round puddles and boggy bits. That causes huge trail damage because mudguards aren't cool. I hope you never build illegal trails. Thats vandalism and really annoys non bikers. I hope you don't ride at all when its wet except trail centres because that causes massive erosion
Or are you just hypocrites using exactly the same arguements that non bikers use against bikers.
I have heard some elitist nonsense on here before but some of the posters are bang out of order.
Get over yourselves
My unit is in a yard full of tradesmen yobbo's (Brexit, casual racism and sexism etc etc) who's idea of fun used to be MX etc. Always revving up unsilenced bikes in the yard.
Recently they have all got into eBikes and its bliss - nice and quiet (apart from the racist banter obvs) plus I genuinely think that if they start riding and associating with other riders they might even get into non-ebikes (one was making noises about a gravel bike last week......plus they are getting fitter and that can only be a good thing for the NHS
The only thing that annoys me is that ebikes are legal but I can't use an eSkateboard or oneWheel legally!
Not sure they are the default as suggested by the OP. Regular bikes will still far outsell electric, although no doubt the majority of bike sales are to people who have nothing to do with 'proper' mtb riding and thus this forum type of rider.
Personaly, I've been riding bikes 40+ years and mtbs 30+, having had many over the years. Since they came out, I've always had electric bikes as cheating and not looked at them.
However, as I go into my 50s and have a few body parts that don't function as they used to, I find myself getting tired and fed up after a couple of hours ride. Getting older sucks but, having had a go on an electric bike I found I could ride longer yet still have as good an overall workout as non electric.
I don't whiz around in turbo everywhere, more using it in the bottom 2 of 5 assist modes. Doing so gives me the feeling of 30 years ago when I could fly round everything hills or not.
I find it slightly amusing that I am now (still) getting super fit riders coming past my uphill smiling and some even shake there head that an ebike can be so slow. I am still wanting to put effort in, just go further and for longer.
Perhaps the fact that a lot of people don't know how ebikes actually work doesn't help with the perception. Most if not all retail full bikes give assistance proportionate to the rider effort, so not all free power. Yes they don't require much rider input in turbo full fat mode but not everybody rides like that.
Having ridden mine in greater assistance mode on a few stretches, I find it harder work as the speed and momentum becomes addictive which requires full effort input and a quicker reaction time etc. Clearly this approach is a lot faster than a normal mtb, especially uphill, but it does still give the rider a workout.
Not sure where this post is going now, Suffice to say, ebikes are not just easy or cheating, they are simply a different way of riding and on the whole I welcome them.
It allows people to cosplay at cycling and avoid the reality of what they’re actually doing.
Why do you think these riders give a crap if they are 'real' cycling or not? Can they not just have fun in the outdoors?
I have to say that this kind of attitude is a major downer. I always wanted to try surfing, and I am acutely aware that large numbers of 'proper' surfers really look down on me messing about in the waves on my foam board. It's unpleasant, intimidating, and makes me feel like giving up which would result in me having less fun at the seaside.
I've been a keen cyclist since I was 15 or so, I don't want an eBike, but I strongly object to people considering themselves the gatekeeper of a sport based on their own values.
The "reality" of what they are doing is enjoying themselves in the outdoors without causing much bother. I think you need to get over yourself.
For me something I'd consider is like the levo sl or newer light emtb.
So for me a favourite loop is Jacobs ladder reverse (so up Jacobs ladder and loop back to castleton).
I'd need a bike just light enough to get up the tougher bits of Jacobs ladder and just enough assistance so I'm not pushing the bike up the steep path past the farm house.
Cost is a big barrier plus being able to get spares, fix thing in years to come.
Not every alternate opinion is “elitist”.
I have to say that this kind of attitude is a major downer. I always wanted to try surfing, and I am acutely aware that large numbers of ‘proper’ surfers really look down on me messing about in the waves on my foam board. It’s unpleasant, intimidating, and makes me feel like giving up which would result in me having less fun at the seaside.
A better analogy would be if you were surfing on a jetski.
It also works both ways.
How many kids feel crappy and self-conscious because they're riding a normal bike while their mates all have £5,000 mopeds.
No robz but the nasty tone of some on here including the op certainly is.
I just wanted to pop in and say that I hope my OP didn't suggest a judgement on eMTBs. @molgrips already converted me to accepting them as valid.
@tjagain: I asked a question based on something I read. That's it. Are you suggesting that the very question itself implies judgement or nastiness?
Those of you complaining about ebikes causing erosion. I hope you have mudguards
**** that's where I'm going wrong. Mudguards prevent erosion.
Fit some to an ebike . All arguments null
I am old have heart problems but will continue to pedal a normal bike as long as I can. When I can't I will look at an ebike.
I would like to be able infest ebike riders with a plague of wasps who look smug, make condescending remarks and run into the back of you on climbs at trail centres.
There is nothing wrong with ebikes just some of the riders.
Surfing and jet skis aren’t quite the same analogy as bikes but can see why you’d make the suggestion.
Ultimately it must come down to the well used answer to most things in life - Don’t be a dick.
All it takes is respect towards each other and all is good. We are all out doing something, which in itself is great. The fact it is cycling should be even better 😃
As for older kit, the first time I cycled into work on my new mtb build at the time in 2000, it had a front hydraulic brake (Hope C2) and rear suspension.
The number of work mates and customers who saw it that got all weird because it was more like a motocross bike than a push bike was genuinely surprising.
My ebike is the first MTB I’ve ever put a rear mudguard on (it has a front one too but so have my other MTBs for a decade).
I can’t recall ever tailgating anyone on my ebike because it’s easy to hang back and pass politely using the extra power when there’s room. But on my singlespeed hardtail it’s quite easy to seem like you’re badgering the rider in front because if you go any slower you’ll stall.
and I am acutely aware that large numbers of ‘proper’ surfers really look down on me messing about in the waves on my foam board. It’s unpleasant, intimidating, and makes me feel like giving up which would result in me having less fun at the seaside.
we don’t. Proper surfers are highly unlikely to be anywhere near where you’re messing around on your sponge. HTH.
Hmm, in trying to show how you're not an elitist dick you e managed to sound just like an elitist dick.
Would you rather I lied to make you feel better?
Saxonrider. Sorry mate not your op. My mistake
Trailrat. Riders going round muddy bits causes trail widening and braiding. Folk do it because they don't want to get muddy and wet. If you have mudguards its not an issue. I have seen this repeatedly folk riding alongside paths
Definitely. Who would want a motorless bike these days? More opportunities to travel less distance at a slower speed with plenty of pushing.
Ebikes are bloody brilliant and the sooner analogue bikes die off the better as far as I'm concerned.
Absolute rolling roadblocks on the trail, but you know, gotta earn them turns rather than having fun.
The plague of wasps is on its way 🙂
I wonder where the electricity to recharge all of these small motorbikes is coming from?
Do the solar panels on your t6's produce enough juice to charge your step-down Surron? Legitimate question?
Some might scorn climbers' arguments about ethics, but at least they have the conversation and appear to put environmental and social impact high up in their moral system. Here it just descends into calling people poor. Even pistonheads doesn't sink that low.
I know of a chap touring the uk on an ebike, with a trailer that has a solar panel on top, to charge the battery, so yeah, they can.
Trailrat. Riders going round muddy bits causes trail widening and braiding. Folk do it because they don’t want to get muddy and wet. If you have mudguards its not an issue. I have seen this repeatedly folk riding alongside paths
And worse, they do it with 2.8" knobbly tyres that churn up the land like its some sort of horticultural implement.
Folk do it because they don’t want to get muddy and wet
Really ? Don't remember seeing that data published any where
🤣
I have time for that. Can he run the ebike motor indefintley?
Otherwise - if the ebike replaces a car journey it offloads the energy production to the national grid which is more efficien5 but the environmental issue onto battery waste and lithium extraction. If the ebike replaces a real bike, that's less cool with me.
I might change my mind when alu oxide batteries become workable.
No idea. Saw a pic of the set up, no further info, save that he was touring the UK. Guess it’s not ideal for night rides.
No idea. Saw a pic of the set up, no further info, save that he was touring the UK. Guess it’s not ideal for night rides.
how bigs this trailer.
2*200watt panels (roughly 2mx1) would just about fully charge an average 48v ebike battery over the course of a British summer time day.
Given that would discharge over half that time it's unlikely this is a self sufficient set up.
Probably looking at 3-4 times that set up for anything useful and that doesn't account for the good old temperamental British weather .
We were offered a "touring trailer ebike" setup a couple of years ago. The trailer had 1 panel of about 2 square meters and housed a lead-acid motor battery. This then had to be used to recharge the bike battery when it had run out of charge. I was tempted to take them up on the offer and then do an endurance test on the NC500 but the whole contraption seemed ridiculous so we let the opportunity pass. I'll never know what it would have been like trying to get that lot up the Bealach na Na.
how bigs this trailer.
4ft by 6ft, from memory. Side by side wheels too.
Heres the thread on pedelecs
https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/solar-trailer-rides-again.43566/
Not the majority, but I am seeing more. I knocked out 47km/917m climbing before a late breakfast this morning, on an old Lava Dome built out of a couple hundred quid of second hand bits. Went spanking downhill past one fat guy a fair bit younger than me (55); the usual bolt upright John Wayne stance on thousands of pounds worth of e-bike. This is definitely happening more than it did. Is it really ‘Moar Fun’ going downhill slowly on a very expensive bike because you lack the basic fitness that comes from climbing without a motor doing the work? Seems a shame people (feel they) need to spend that amount of money to ride a bike. I’d feel a bit embarrassed, to be honest.
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I ride a '97 Lava Dome - owned from new (catching the trend, not catching up with your parts bin bike JFTR), a PP Shan, until (fairly) recently a YT Capra and wait for it...... an E-bike - 180mm travel Spesh Kenevo
I can guarantee a few things - I couldn't match you on a morning ride, but at the same time I couldn't care less. I have more fun on a bike than you and I'm definitely more fun at parties than you.
Other things I can't guarantee are true, but probably are - I could still probably beat you downhill, I'm better looking than you, my dick is bigger than yours and I don't smell of wee as much as you do.....
Of course more eBikes are being seen, that is because people are buying them so they are increasing each year.
Still 100's of MTBs for sale at a massive price range from from a £500 Vitus to an £8K high end thing. More people will be buying the £500 - £2000 MTBs than are buying eMTBs.
2 things will be the sign of ebike becoming more dominant....
Firstly....that a bike with a motor is the first with a talked about non motor feature - a first bike to have new cutting edge geometry or something about the suspension design (other than engineering around the practical implications of a motor). It seems to me so far that ebikes are not trail blazers, but are rather followers of concepts developed first on conventional bikes.
Secondly....at the lower end of the market, a conventional bike designed around a ebike ready frame with some sort of insert to take a conventional chainset where the motor would go. I.e. a manufacturer that elects through scale of production to produce a few non ebikes using the ebike ready frame they use for all their other bikes.
Firstly….that a bike with a motor is the first with a talked about non motor feature – a first bike to have new cutting edge geometry or something about the suspension design (other than engineering around the practical implications of a motor). It seems to me so far that ebikes are not trail blazers, but are rather followers of concepts developed first on conventional bikes.
Secondly….at the lower end of the market, a conventional bike designed around a ebike ready frame with some sort of insert to take a conventional chainset where the motor would go. I.e. a manufacturer that elects through scale of production to produce a few non ebikes using the ebike ready frame they use for all their other bikes.
1st point is a good one, something I'd got interested in mainly for transport bikes. E-MTBs already have different suspension dynamics and handling a heavier bike is different. It makes sense to look at the layout with fresh eyes, though that doesn't mean the result would/should end up different.
2nd point, so you can upgrade to an e-bike later? At the higher niche end it's something Jeff Jones' E-MTBs do. They'll be scoffed at for all the usual reasons but his thinking and the result is pretty spot on imo. There's also the new Skarper system that converts a disc brake bike to an e-bike, along these lines.
It's does make me laugh when people go on about battery's on ebikes while posting from a phone/laptop.
I'm presuming these folks don't own a car, have kids or pets?
I ride bikes because of the simple reason I like them.
I don't try and dress it up as anything else.
Is it really ‘Moar Fun’ going downhill slowly on a very expensive bike because you lack the basic fitness that comes from climbing without a motor doing the work?
A quick glance around any triathlon transition will demonstrate that acquiring fitness is nothing to do with bike handling skills.
Seriously though I think that reasoning is flawed. Said 55 year old e bike rider would probably not be out at all.ifnit weren't for the e bike. So he's going slowly - so what? Why do you care? Perhaps he is having fun? Perhaps he's full of a sense of achievement when he gets home? Still struggling to see the negatives.
I think that what is happening here is a lot of knee jerk reaction to the new. There are plenty of sports that use technology to make things easier. Do any of you e-bike haters go downhill skiing? That's vastly worse on all the metrics you all seem to scorn e bikes and yet it's fully accepted to the point where it is indeed the default form. It's what people think of when you say skiing and other forms have to be prefixed.
So does my preference for bike accessed alpine touring (ideally in scotland or the lakes) validate my dislike for electric motorbikes?
Firstly, it is entirely workable to support 'this' or 'that' environmental / ethical cause without simultaneously rejecting every trapping of modern life. I couldn't do my job without a mobile phone - an eMTB is a leisure luxury item (which is why I always differentiate between these and e-bikes for commuting). Driving an RSQ8 to a trail centre to ride my non e bike and getting on my high horse = bankrupt. Having kids does not mean you can't try and 'do less harm' at the same time.
Secondly, there's a vast difference between destructive and ethically regressive technology in a sport and the incremental improvement of the basic tools of the job, and to suggest they're just the same thing seems a bit dishonest to me.
My Scarpa Chimeras are better than EB Ballets for sure, as are my Totem Cams vice choinard friends. That doesn't mean putting a jetpack on and flying around north Wales means I onsighted the Indian Face.
I knocked out 47km/917m climbing before a late breakfast this morning, on an old Lava Dome..Seems a shame people (feel they) need to spend that amount of money to ride a bike. I’d feel a bit embarrassed, to be honest.
I'm poorly so I'm grumpy, but this is some of the most self-absorbed patronising horse-shit I've read for a long time on the forum.
Having kids does not mean you can’t try and ‘do less harm’ at the same time.
Neither does riding an ebike.
I don't own a car or have kids/pets and moved to Scotland so I didn't have to keep traveling here to ride.
Don't try and imply you're somehow greener than people you know nothing about.
It's easy to pick faults in other people's choices isn't it...
I ride because I love riding I don't try and wrap other stuff in with it.
I’ve been riding over 20 years, still not particularly fit or skilled/fast. I ride with people who are athletes and supremely skilled. My Levo now allows me to ride with them at their pace, and often towe them up hill. Never really enjoyed killing my legs chasing after them uphill, so I had dead legs for the main event on the way down. People who hate on ebikes need to get over themselves FFS. So what you can ride 4000ft and 50 miles on an old shed. Big deal, nobody gives a shit. Sorry to piss on your chips.
Yes ebikes allow inexperienced people to get to places they could get out of their depth. People soon learn, and we all have to start somewhere. There has always been those of a smug/self righteous attitude in MTB always will be. But the more people on bikes the better. And your fun, isn’t any better or valid than somebody else’s fun, neither is your opinion.
The price barrier to MTB, is just lack of knowledge. Simple.
I have sourced super bikes for people, from £100 to £900. Depending on what they want to do and their budget. Ebikes are expensive yes, but they are new tech. They are not a prerequisite for riding, neither is AXS, Kashima, or full suspension. The media shout’s about all this fancy kit because most riders love it, even if it is beyond our budget. You/we don’t need it. Those that look to people who are not particularly fit/ skilled/experienced on expensive bikes and hate on them are simply just jealous. It’s pathetic. It’s easy to laugh at the person who has dropped a ton on all the matching hope anodised bits, computers, lights on their S-works Levo, but really who gives a shit. They are loving it. Be nice say Hi.
I'm sure STR's post seemed like a good idea in the early hours after a skinful.
For the rest, from the top:
Don't have kids or pets, moving this week so I can go carless. Also vegetarian and don't fly (saves you the trouble of coming up with more whataboutery).
You can't run a phone without a battery. You can ride a bike without one, but when people give reasons for why this might be a better thing, it seems to attract lots of whataboutery and personal attacks based on, y'know, assumptions. Almost like it's touching some nerves.
Continuity, attempts to draw parallels with climbing ethics are wasted here, mate.
I tend to get my morning rides in early to beat the rush, but today people were wisely out to beat the heat. So, back to the OP's query, my observations were: two skinny older guys on 'analogue' bikes - and four fat people on e-bikes.
Just sayin,' like.
Don’t know what any of that has to do with your better than you attitude to ebiking, or ebikers? And climbing ethics? WTF is that? Bull shit
Just saying like
Lots of people find surfing difficult and it prevents them from enjoying the sport.
So motorised boards just make things easier. It opens it all up.
The other advantage is that you don't need big waves. In fact, you don't need any waves.
But you still need a basic ability to stand on a board so it still takes some skill.
The boards are obviously much more expensive and need charging and all that.
Some claim that it's not actually surfing and that it misses the point of what surfing is/was about.
But who cares when you see the joy on the face of a surfer astride his brand new £5,000 eboard?
my observations were: two skinny older guys on ‘analogue’ bikes – and four fat people on e-bikes.
My observations from my ride yesterday
Saw a couple of walkers and about a dozen folks on a combo of e and manual bikes.
Everyone was pleasant chatty and smiling.
Thankfully we didn't come across any sneering dick swingers.
Some claim that it’s not actually surfing and that it misses the point of what surfing is/was about.
"my arms and legs are all the suspension I need"
Some mtber c. 1990
‘I can lock my wheels with canti brakes, why do I need disks?’
-that same MTBer, 2 mins after the above.
Some claim that it’s not actually surfing and that it misses the point of what surfing is/was about.
i had a great time bodysurfing a shorey at rinsey last week, what do I win…
Thankfully we didn’t come across any sneering dick swingers.
@singlespeedstu Three weeks mate… 😂
I’m sure STR’s post seemed like a good idea in the early hours after a skinful.
😉
Leaning back towards the OP - go in JE James and it's wall to wall e-bikes. Any normal bikes are tucked away in a corner
