[Closed] Are these cockpits effectively the same?

No, the second one is longer in every dimension. The wider the bars, the further forward your torso will be. Swap the bar dimensions and the two might be similar in length.

You didn't really think that through before posting did you OP!

Or did you mean [b]6[/b]90mm bars on the 2nd one?
And are you talking about handling, fit or both?

No, we had this conversation yesterday, (when he was riding the one with 790mm bars) and he (almost) convinced me. He did seem to be riding well and having fun.

Just handling.

The 2nd setup feels substantially more stable, I thought that was due to the wider bars initially but then remembered the longer top tube and figured that would compensate.

seat angle/ head angle have a part to play too.

sweep of the bar would bring the ends back, but not that much, unless its something with extreme sweep like a Jones bar.

I'm not too fussed about body position 'cos the dropper post allows me to put my weight back as far as poss, I want to know if that cockpit set-up (top tube, stem, bars) will affect the stability when descending?

I think you've probably highlighted the main issue - don't put your weight back as far as possible. Keep your body central and low. Other geometry factors will have an impact too, but body position will have a big impact...

Shouldn't the wider bars have brought my body and weight forward then, making it less stable when descending?

The width of the bars has no impact [u]AT ALL[/u] on the actual handling of the bike. Because they don't effect the geometry. ALL they do is effect your perception of the handling.

Go with what feels better

Head angle, fork length, wheel size, bottom bracket height, seat tube angle, chainstay length all need taking into account if you're trying to be scientific about which bike you prefer.

Or buy the one that looks nicest.

And you not even mentioning bar height, which has loads of effect. You want wideish bars, short stem and low bars. With a shorter stem you can get away with lower bar height, so it corners AND climbs betterer. Wider bars give more stability but slow the steering FEEL down, which isnt a bad thing.

55mm stem maybe, I think shorter would be better. 790mm bars are too big as you'll be banging trees, 760 is pushing it on tighter stuff.

And dont put 60mm of stem spacers on. Thats the worst thing you could do.

The width of the bars has no impact AT ALL on the actual handling of the bike.

Technically yes, the BIKE will handle the same, however you typically need to be on the bike to ride it and the bars are your interaction with the bike. So overall, they have a siginifcant effect on the overall 'handling' of the combined bike and rider package.

yeah, that's why I said:

[i]ALL they do is effect your perception of the handling.

Go with what feels better[/i]

afterwards..?

And the seat tube angle will affect how it climbs and pedals as much as anything else.

So, as BJ said, buy the one that looks nicest.

I'm with STATO - it's not just the perception. It's an actual handling difference.

And the seat tube angle will affect how it climbs and pedals as much as anything else.

technically seat tube angle just affects how much fore/aft adjustment you need to make to the saddle to get it in your preferred position. And i suppose it will also affect the TT measurement (which is why reach/stack is a better measure).

So, as BJ said, buy the one that looks nicest.

Agreed.

The effect of the wrong seat tube angle 😛 -

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The simplest way to look at this I think is that the bikes are effectively 22mm different before you take the bars into account. Bars are not a good way to change the 'length' of a bike. 710 is short, 790 is long. You probably will be most comfy somewhere in between (most people are). The length of your bars is something you should determine without the influence of how long it makes a bike feel, as more important factors like your shoulder width are at play. What is true, is that if you want a bike to feel the same when you lengthen the bars, its advisable to shorten the stem at the same time. not only does it effect your reach to the bars, but long bars can feel disconnected from the steering as they require little leverage and long movements to effect a change in direction, so a shorter stem helps bring back some of the more direct and involved feel of the steering again.

This thread is all wrong. Can we delete it and start again? 😀

This thread is all wrong. Can we delete it and start again?

The reply box is blank, you can re-start right now. Enlighten me.

scruff - Member
The effect of the wrong seat tube angle

Also, since you mention dropper.... It's the reach measurement you want in order to help work out whether they will feel roughly the same when standing up on the bike. Eff tt is for when you're sat down. Can be long eff but short reach if it has a slack seat tube angle. The measurement is taken from the bb to the stem in a horizontal. I think Transition and Yeti created it as a 'standard' for more downhill orientated bikes.

That looks like the sort of bike that could throw a rider into the cut without warning.

No, I was riding my Cotic Soul last Thursday night (well early Friday) 😳