Are there old standards you would no longer touch?

Many standards I wouldn't touch, but not so much on bikes that you would realistically buy 2nd hand. The only one that I can think of is a splined bottom bracket cartridge. HT2 for me all the way with a threaded bb cups. No press fit bb for me at all.

Old standards ... quill stems, canti or v brakes, tubed tyres, triple ring chainset at the front (I'd still be OK with a 2x chainset), non stealth dropper, erm, that's about it.

Cable operated derailleurs

It depends, there's not many things that would worry me but I still wouldn't choose to buy them given a choice. For example I wouldn't mind owning a road bike with cantilever brakes but I'd rather have one with hydraulic discs. Equally a qr wheel will still work just fine on an mtb for tame riding so there's nothing wrong with it but it would be a long way from cutting edge tech.

Depends on intended use and budget. For mountain biking, I'd definitely avoid QR, and I'd possibly take a front derailleur as a warning sign! Boost is pretty much the standard for hubs/chainline so avoid 142x12 rear axle and 100x15 front. You might want to go with 29" wheels too, as 27.5" is less available and 26" is fairly niche these days.

Saying that I've got 2 bikes with QR front hubs, a 26" hybrid with front derailleur, a 27.5" hardtail with 142x12 rear, another 27.5" hardtail rear QR (converted from 3x9 to 1x9), both with 110x15 front, and absolutely none with boost or 29" wheels.

V Brakes or any kinda rim brake tbh.

Also, elastomer forks.....

Yes I would.

If you’re going to use it for mountain biking then you’re going to need spares. Unless you’re a retro pervert that means you need something that’s up to current standards.

So 1*, boost, disc brakes, tapered steerer, 29er.

Rod brakes!

When I was a postie, I was issued with an old Pashley which was ok on the flat when dry, but try stopping the heavily laden steed in the rain on a hill😀

Any form of rim brakes.
QR is becoming more difficult to find decent wheels for without going all custom - yes I know you can step down thru-axle to QR but given a choice, I'd not be buying anything QR again.

So 1*, boost, disc brakes, tapered steerer, 29er.

I would add or 27.5". I know a lot o. Here want to yell that 27.5 is dead why would you have 27.5 but there are still plenty being made even though 29er is majority.

Isis.

Otherwise it's marketing BS really, as if you can't have fun on a 26er, even with cantis

Isis and all press fit arse bearings

26" wheels
Straight steerer
Non boost wheels

My main bikes still have some of those features but that's because I've had them a while. Spares are easier for the non boost 29r than the 26" wheeled straight steerer, qr wheeled hardtail but choice is still limited.

I would add or 27.5″. I know a lot o. Here want to yell that 27.5 is dead why would you have 27.5 but there are still plenty being made even though 29er is majority.

Yeah, I did think that adding 29er might be a bit contentious.

Got to admit both times I’ve ridden a mates 27.5 (hardtail and full sus) I’ve loved them.

It really depends on how much you’re spending and how fussy you are about the parts the bike is made of, both now and in the future when things break or wear out. And obviously the gnarlier the riding, the more sense the more recent standards make.

Yes press fit BB = noisy

12 speed = massive expensive cassette

Internal gear cables = ball ache to replace

Rear mech with awkward bolt for cable.

I'm only worried about weird short-lived stuff like the boost QR141 hub spacing. If it's something that is or was widely adopted then generally spares are no problem.

Yes press fit BB = noisy

been running press fit for about 8? years on 3 bikes

not a squeak

(wheels manufacturing screw together ones ftw)

I think anything with a straight steerer is out. Qr is ok but most stuff with that is either old or outdated. 26” tyres are quite limited so avoid that.

I’d look for 27.5” or 29” wheels, tapered steerer.  Don’t go too old - perhaps from 2017 and newer in most makes has reasonably modern geometry etc. Non-boost hubs aren’t the end of the world - you can still get non boost stuff for spares. Most non boost front hubs can use adapters to get to boost if you change to a boost fork.

What’s you actual budget though? For £600 you could pickup something with modern wheels / modern ish geometry / passable air fork / hydraulic discs / boost spacing front and rear axles etc

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/p/vitus-sentier-27-mountain-bike

I spent £200 on a 2015 Pinnacle Ramin 1 recently.

29er, straight steerer, 9 speed and QR wheels. Oh and Shimano Altus gears.

Best bike I've owned in years, don't buy the hype, if you want a bike to just go and explore on then that's all you need, everything else is just noise.

Nothing really for me, as long as the price is right and it basically does the job. All my bikes tend to be lashups anyway, old-to-boost adaptors in the wheels, one has a hole drilled for a dropper, one is (whisper it) qr and 26er and even has a 27.2 post.

The only standard I'd absolutely avoid, is a new one- Bloody ****ing Stupid Superboost. 35mm stems can get in the bin too, and 30mm axle cranks, but I'd accept them if there was a good reason. Oh yeah,and anything that you can't put a good long dropper post in though that's not a "standard".

mrchrist
Full Member

Yes press fit BB = noisy

Nah, not necessarily, there's a bunch of variations. My old Trek had BB92, I think? Plastic cups type. And it was absolutely fine, I was surprised tbh

Otherwise it’s marketing BS really, as if you can’t have fun on a 26er, even with cantis

No, this is nothing at all to do with marketing and all to do with the fact that if something breaks in an old standard it can be really hard to get spare parts.

If I was buying a used bike, I would make sure that it can take a tapered fork. Even if it's a 26" frame, you can put a 27.5 fork in. Also, make sure it can take a 30.9 mm seatpost so you can fit a long travel dropper post. 27.2 mm seatposts are limited to short travel droppers.

hangerless rear mechs.

No, this is nothing at all to do with marketing and all to do with the fact that if something breaks in an old standard it can be really hard to get spare parts.

With the exception of forks. Which bits are hard to get?

Probably as many modern ideas as old ones. Press fit BB for one. I hate a 1x system as I loath the gaps and the great long mech.  Wider Q factor which admitedly is more noticeable with shorter legs. Rim brakes worked but not as well but was this really a problem when we had nowt else? Dunno.

I wonder why bike makers haven't started work on this yet? Surely BBs should be also sized accordingly.

All the older standards were fine really. Itis just that money has been invested in ways to  change what "fine" is.

You do konw of course that all these wonderful modern ideas will be redundant in a decade or so anyway.

About the only one for me would be a straight steerer, but even then it depends on what the fork is and how basic/brilliant it was for the money. There's really no parts that you can't get still at a bike shop, some might not be as well made as you'd want, but they tend to be commensurately less expensive. If it's a cheap jumping off point to see if you still want to do mountain biking, then just buy the bike you like

If you want the bike to be future proof though, that's a different thing. Don't buy a bike that not 110*15 front and 148*12 back, buy a 29er, no 27.2 seatposts, no front mech, chain line at 53-55mm. Everything else, not a problem.

I'm still getting by just fine with QR hubs on several MTB/Gravel/CX bikes.

My Stumpjumper is one of the last 142mm frames I think.

Old standard hubs are still available, just not so much from premium brands, you'll be able to source a Shimano or novatec hub easily enough though...

BSA bottom brackets came back into favour too when everyone realised how shit press fit was, so some standards are so old, they're new again 😉

I'd say the one biggest challenge is probably straight steerer 1-1/8" frames, finding a decent fork to suit is difficult now and you're probably going to be poking about on eBay for a used one...

With the exception of forks. Which bits are hard to get?

Wheels and rims that aren't bespoke builds or pub bike quality can't be got that easily.

That and forks are imo the biggest issue and it's not just forks but service/repair parts for them like lowers and csu's.

Those are bike killing problems now in some sizes.

Good quality tubeless 26" tyres are noticeably harder to find now.

It's kit I would maintain if I had it but not buy now. The other issue is lots of it is now all old anyway so you may be getting towards the end of servicable life.

The other stuff is a lack of choice and may have to spend more time scratching around to find what you want rather than end of world stuff.

I’d say the one biggest challenge is probably straight steerer 1-1/8″ frames, finding a decent fork to suit is difficult now and you’re probably going to be poking about on eBay for a used one…

There are shops that can convert tapered forks to straight steerers. Not cost effective, but if you REALLY want to keep a frame…

Wheels and rims that aren’t bespoke builds or pub bike quality can’t be got that easily.

Maybe but that was specifically not the point made. Spare parts to keep a bike running are different to buying new parts for a build.

All the bits to rebuild a wheel of any MTB standard and aren't going anywhere soon.

Not to say I would buy new bikes with questionable spec but any bike will still be running for decades to come with parts readily available.

Maybe but that was specifically not the point made. Spare parts to keep a bike running are different to buying new parts for a build

All the bits to rebuild a wheel of any MTB standard and aren’t going anywhere soon.

I didn't mean to suggest anything other than spares/replacement.

That second bit is key though. You're into bespoke builds for damaged wheels or proper cheap stuff pre built last I looked for my 26r. Unless you can do it yourself then there's a labour charge in there and inconvenience. This is what I would do with my 26r but in reality only because I already have it.

The reality for a mid range MTB is that a mid range factory built wheel is often the most cost effective accident replacement option.

If you want the bike to be future proof though, that’s a different thing. Don’t buy a bike that...

Sorry, had to laugh at that. A marketing-led industry flogging discretionary purchases to a Western, affluent customer base, making something future-proof.

Watch out for the next thing that makes the trails come alive.

Press fit BBs.
Straight steerers and headtubes.
QR forks.
26" wheels.
Non 1x drivetrains.

Those are the ones that you might realistically encounter buying a proper mountain bike from the last 10 years.

If I look back at my first mountain bike, 1986 Rockhopper, the only thing I wouldn't ever want to ride again is the geometry 😂

i have a kona unit with a semi integrated straight headset and just needed to buy a lower external headset to fit a tapered fork on there

anyway this is bobbins...

All the older standards were fine really. Itis just that money has been invested in ways to  change what “fine” is.

my Enduro bike is better at descending than my dh bike of 20 years ago and faster and more fun round a trail centre than my xc bike of the same vintage- those trail centres have got more fun because bikes can handle bigger stuff better

Press fit BBs.
Straight steerers and headtubes.
QR forks.
26″ wheels.
Non 1x drivetrains.

Those are the ones that you might realistically encounter buying a proper mountain bike from the last 10 years.

You've just described my MTB except it has something worse than a pressfit BB - it has an ISIS one. 🤣

Press fit BBs.

Some press fit. BB30 or Hollowgram or whatever it's being called this week to disassociate itself from previous iterations  is shockingly bad, Controversially; I think that PF92 is probably the best solution all round (especially with a 24mm Shimano axle), but like a lot of other things, reason seems to go out of the window when bike makers are designing stuff.

Honesty, integrity, self-discipline.   Probably some others that I've forgotten about.

any bike will still be running for decades to come with parts readily available.

You say 'with the exception of forks' but that's a huge deal for a decent MTB.  Forks aren't the most reliable part of a bike, and they are pretty important.  Your top end trail bike from 2008 can deal with lower quality wheels or an old rear mech or whatever, but if you have to fit a cheap fork it's really going to reduce the performance.  Same for tyres.

Also, doing a frame swap is a non starter when all your old parts don't fit.

For those who don't believe me, I still have a top end FS Kona Heihei frame from 2007 I need to get rid of, nice and cheap 🙂

No, this is nothing at all to do with marketing and all to do with the fact that if something breaks in an old standard it can be really hard to get spare parts.

On an old product maybe.

On an old standard? Unless you're using some obsolete 90s brake mount or proprietary interface I can't think of anything that couldn't be easily replaced.

my Enduro bike is better at descending than my dh bike of 20 years ago and faster and more fun round a trail centre than my xc bike of the same vintage- those trail centres have got more fun because bikes can handle bigger stuff better

What's that got to do with standards? With the exception of the head tube nothing else is going to be a factor. Even then onepointfive was a thing so you could still get similar long travel forks.

The difference is down to better design, manufacturing processes and geometry.

Out with my son last night - me on 2023 29er Ebike, him on my 2015 non-boost, 29er trail bike.. his young mate turns up on a Decathlon special hardtail, 1.9" semi-slick tyres, non-tapered headtube, skinny 30mm stanchions on the forks. Yeah I wouldn't touch something with those parts, but he still had fun and left with a big smile and mud splattered all up his pristine white shirt 🙂

You can always get parts, but pressfit or ISIS BB's are a no-no, as they are crap. I'd echo that you are more likely to come stuck with electronic parts as the tech changes - e.g. can you get parts for the early DI2 - doubt it ?

but pressfit or ISIS BB’s are a no-no, as they are crap

[Thinks about it for a second, then wades in anyway.]

All BB are (in reality) press-fit. The only difference is that some BB require the bearings to be pre-pressed into a separate carrier which is then loaded onto the bike. threaded BB in no particular order; limit the size of rear tyre you can have, limit the width of the the BB shell,  have a smaller interface, rotate more slowly, and so don't transfer power as well, they are also heavier and require more manufacturing processes, and ultimately have the same intolerances of press-fit BB suffer from, which is why there's never any threads ever about BB issues [sarcasm] I think the only thing going for them is that folks are used to them.

In reality some press fit BB "standards" - I'm looking at BB90 BB86 (maybe, although I'll reserve judgement on that one), BB30 and any number of ill-thought out nonsense that got sucked into bigger axle diameter wars, muddied the water for just about everyone. If bike makers had stuck to PF41 or BB92, and 24mm axles. we'd probably all be using them now.

It was all fine when 26" was all the rage.

If you try the newer things, the older things won't feel as good.

In order of importance for me
Geometry
Disk brakes
Wheel size

Things that can get in the sea
Cantilever brakes
V brakes
Quill stems

There's a new standard I wouldn't touch, threaded cup external bottom brackets, engineering madness for the sole purpose of turning bottom brackets into a consumable item.

There's nothing wrong with pressfit if its done properly, unfortunately most bike manufacturers don't know how to machine the bottom brackets to the required tolerances.

Shimano cartridge bottom brackets had lifetimes measured in years, modern BBs have lifespans measured in months or less.

I can’t think of anything that couldn’t be easily replaced.

Find me some 170mm straight steerer 26 inch wheel forks for my Patriot that are as good as the 66s.

"press fit arse bearings"
Definitely avoid those... 🙂

Another set of 66's? I've got some Super T's that probably weigh less.

Second hand market is your friend in that scenario, for just about all others you can still pick up compatible equivalents new.

Whitworth, never again!

There’s a new standard I wouldn’t touch, threaded cup external bottom brackets, engineering madness for the sole purpose of turning bottom brackets into a consumable item.

There’s nothing wrong with pressfit if its done properly, unfortunately most bike manufacturers don’t know how to machine the bottom brackets to the required tolerances.

Shimano cartridge bottom brackets had lifetimes measured in years, modern BBs have lifespans measured in months or less.

Yeah, I've not really had much trouble with HT2 bottom brackets TBH, as you say manufacturing of BB shells is typically the issue and mine seem to last several years, but yes square taper BBs were generally far longer lived (for a minor weight penalty) Hence I have both in the fleet.

Press fit was really a cost saving measure, simplify the BB, reduce the cost of manufacture, inevitably these turned out shonky and now we're back to BSA (and T47 for some). I'd agree that PF bearings should be better, the trouble is execution didn't match up so when people say PF BBs were shite, they're generally right, in use most people's experiences were poor.

26"

QR

front derailleurs below xtr

anything not a disk brake

apart from that im fairly easy.

ISIS are not all bad. I have the RF serviceable ones and the axle and cups are original from the early 00's, about the 3rd set of bearings, occasionally topped up with grease. I cannot fault them. In that time Square, Octalink and whatever the SRAM one is called have fallen by the wayside in our house , and everything goes in the bin when they do.

I'm about to touch a lot of these. 100/135mm hubs, 26in wheels.  Wire bead tyres, inner tubes, QR skewers, rigid, straight steerer forks, V brakes F&R.  Building up a Bonty Privateer as a pub type bike. It's going to be incredibly real.

birdoFree Member
So I ve been out of the game for a while (12 years ) to find everything has changed. My trusty old 26 inch wheel, ridged single speed seems to be different to every new standard.
so I’ve started looking for a new steed  ( secondhand) and have found a few but they all have something different going on.

would you be worried about buying something without a thru axle or with a front derailleur for example.
Posted 15 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT

Nope and nope, not worried at all. If you are testing the waters to see if you get back into biking then go on condition and price of the bike.

There are no 'standard' bikes and second hand bikes that have reasonably 'modern' geometry can always have peculiar sized components that are difficult to get hold of.

If you want bleeding edge technology then get your hands in your pockets and buy new, but even then a new bike can be out of date next year.

For my main bike I will pretty much avoid anything older than 275/29, straight steerer, older than Boost, etc because I want to put nice shiny new stuff on my my bike.

Straight steerers are all but extinct now, few wheels aren’t some form of Boost, Seat tubes are wider. Why limit yourself to worn out old bits when new standards are widely available. Although I have hated every 35mm handlebar I’ve tried so will stick with 31.8 until I die (or they do).

Saying that I’ve just built up a steel hardtail for pump track/parenting duties that’s 1 1/8th straight steerer, 135qr rear hub, 100 x 20mm fork, 27.2 seatpost.

But it’s made from mainly spares as a cheap hack bike so that’s ok.

Internal gear cables = ball ache to replace

Most of our bikes have this now, it's really not that hard at all. Yes, more work than external, but hardly a ball ache - an extra few minutes tops.

Second hand market is your friend in that scenario

That just highlights the issue. Being forced to get whatever someone else is selling on in whatever condition is a significant disadvantage in my view.  And you can't get spare parts which is more of a problem again.

You say ‘with the exception of forks’ but that’s a huge deal for a decent MTB. Forks aren’t the most reliable part of a bike, and they are pretty important. Your top end trail bike from 2008 can deal with lower quality wheels or an old rear mech or whatever, but if you have to fit a cheap fork it’s really going to reduce the performance. Same for tyres.

Perhaps, but equally the chain stay might crack, writing the frame off. I don't see 26" 2nd hand parts disappearing any time soo, e.g. you hei-hei. There might not be a Charger3 SID with 35mm stanchions that'll fit, but there's probably a practically endless supply of other forks on ebay.

On the original question though, not particulalry, but then I'd also say why buy a 2nd hand bike older than 1x12 and boost hubs unless budgets are really tight. My Vitus Escarpe was only a smidgen into 4 figures and the only 'standard' I'm even slightly worried about is SRAM's insistence on obsoleting drive chains every 5 minutes, but it does have a UDH.

But by the same token, anything older than boost hubs or even UDH is probably owned by someone who isn't the target market for drivechains that coast more than my whole bike. Things move on, the best £1200 upgrade to a ~2015 bike isn't a £1200 drivechain, it's a whole new-ish 2022 bike.

That just highlights the issue. Being forced to get whatever someone else is selling on in whatever condition is a significant disadvantage in my view. And you can’t get spare parts which is more of a problem again.

Is it though, I can't give 26" stuff away locally. Sold some NOS still fashionably wide enduro rims for £5, had a front wheel and NOS spare rim up for £5 and only go "would you deliver to Slough" (nope). Rear wheels went in the bin as no one wanted them.

The only problem with the 2nd hand market is the shear lack of value in some stuff means people would rather keep it "just in case" and ride it once a year to remind themselves it's rubbish than actually list it for sale.

That just highlights the issue. Being forced to get whatever someone else is selling on in whatever condition is a significant disadvantage in my view.  And you can’t get spare parts which is more of a problem again.

Absolutely. I want something I can mountain bike on and get new parts for at my convenience, not grot around refurbing something from an online jumble sale.

Sadly you seem to be describing all my current mountain bikes, and some of my road bikes............

The thread has gone off on to a massive tangent where folk are listing their annoyances.

There have been plenty of helpful answers but they are a bit lost amongst the noise!

The only old standard to avoid would be straight steerer tube - and they've been long gone. The op will be able to get non-boost hubs and 31.8 handlebars for a long time to come, even if just 2nd hand kit.

Superboost was a 2 fingers up at the pointless exercise that was boost spacing but it never took hold so became the exact thing it sought to destroy. Therefore spares are limited and should be avoided - but you'll have a hard time stumbling in to that one.

Press fit BBs can be fine (we've had 2 for 8 years plus) but check reviews as some manufacturers seem to get them wrong.

Buy a good bike that you like the look of and go have fun. Check reviews for obvious shortcomings and crack on.

...but then I’d also say why buy a 2nd hand bike older than 1×12 and boost hubs unless budgets are really tight. My Vitus Escarpe was only a smidgen into 4 figures and the only ‘standard’ I’m even slightly worried about is SRAM’s insistence on obsoleting drive chains every 5 minutes, but it does have a UDH.

Thing is a bike with 142mm spacing from 2015~2018ish will still take most modern parts and new 142 standard hubs are still readily available, they've implemented them as the standard for Road and Gravel bikes now. So if you're going to get another 3-5 years use from a mid-late 2010s bike and the alternative is spunking ~£3k on the modern equivalent, spending up to ~£1200 to keep it going might actually be a "sensible" choice for some.

But by the same token, anything older than boost hubs or even UDH is probably owned by someone who isn’t the target market for drivechains that coast more than my whole bike. Things move on, the best £1200 upgrade to a ~2015 bike isn’t a £1200 drivechain, it’s a whole new-ish 2022 bike.

If you're actually shopping for a new/recent used bike yeah OK why not aim for more current standards (they're likely to be getting phased out within another few years anyway).
I do think UDH is worth having, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker, especially if it nudges a budget higher. suppose you're looking at a ~2021 bike it's a good price and ticks all your other requirements has more current geo' etc, would you really pass on it if it just lacks that one most recent mech mounting standard?

It is sort of amusing that the bike industry, especially for MTBs, has now gotten their customers forever chasing to 'keep up' with ever changing "standards"... It does feel like a little more pushback might be in order.
Perhaps an open letter stating we're collectively happy for them to spend time refining geometry but maybe we freeze changes to standards for the next what 5-7 years?