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If you were to ride factory e bike A against factory e bike B would they both cut out at exactly the same speed?
My stock restricted moped was the fastest amongst my group of friends back in the day even though they all did 30mph.
I rode my converted e bike with my brother's stock ebike and I struggled to keep up as mine cut out just before his.
With the prevalence of e bikes now, I'm wondering if on a group ride one brand is just that tiny bit faster than the others and would therefore make you buy that brand?
It's bloody hard work pedalling an e bike that's not powered , trying to keep up with someone cruising.
Will we see brands being a bit cheeky with the cut off point?
I've ridden 2 that go about 30mph and still assist... however, they're not legal 🙂
Given most e-bikes detect their speed by using a wheel sensor, then a lot is going to depend on what circumference has been entered as the wheel size. Most bikes enable you to change that figure so it is a pretty simple way to boost the speed a little bit.
There's a target range for the speed + power test accuracy so they will vary a little. Plus the wheel sensor picks up RPM so the wheel circumference / tyre size will make a difference to actual speed at the RPM where assistance cuts out.
Is not an exact science i think. Mrs SSSs 2 ebikes, Cube and Specialized. The Specialized is slightly faster and cuts off more like 16mph than 15mph like the Cube.
That said, yes, as Weeksy has pointed out, you can derestrict them, but its not legal (and void warranty if restricted in first place).
There is a category of speed pedelecs used in some countries that are legal up to 30 mph
I had a bash on a fugly ebike last summer, loaned by a pal who used to ride motocross sidecars
Despite it being allegedly stock, the bike was pretty scary quick
Due to the current law surrounding ebikes in the UK, we have done our utmost to comply.
So when you receive your new ebike now, there will be no throttle on the handlebar, and the motor is restricted to 250watts with a top speed of 25KMs(15.5mph).
But don’t despair, we have included the throttle in the box of accessories that comes with the bike. Plus we have a video on our site showing you how to derestrict the motor, as we know many of our customers use our ebikes off road or on private land.
<enter disclaimer here>
I was alluding to what SSS was saying.
If as a cube rider I see a spesh rider disappearing on a fire road climb it may well sway my next purchase.
Be cheaper to fit a bigger rear tyre/tell it you have a smaller one fitted.
Ive never had them both out together. I have ridden them both and the indicated speed from both are - when the motor cut out are:
Specialized Turbo Vado SL - From the Specialized proprietry bluetooth LCD interface screen. I was getting assisted speeds upto between 16.2 to 16.8mph before cutout. Test area - Aberfoyle and over the Dukes Pass
Cube Reaction Hybrid Performance 500 - from the Bosch Purion screen, i would get cutout between 15-15.5mph. Test area - Ochil Hills outside Stirling.
Given the Cube is 23kg and the Specialized is 14-15kg. The Cube is hard work to pedal above motor cut out limit.
However, the Cube Bosch motor- albeit 'slower' has better acceleration and power whilst in assist mode.
I am 55kg.
Cant speak for other ebikes, but these are my unofficial, unscientific ride results with the 2 that we have.
Two of my riding mates bought the same bikes from the same place, 6 months apart. Giants, same model colour etc. One is faster than the other it just cuts out at a higher speed. I attributed it to manufacturing differences etc.
The giants are wierd, they littereally cut the power so it it is like hititng a brick wall when you hit the limiter, they have learned to hold back just a bit so they always get full support. Seems daft though, the torque sensor and software works buy adding on a factor of the input torque, so 50% 100% or more.
Say it is 100% support and the speed limits is 20mph, you are pushing at 10Nm, it is giving you 10NM, at 19.9mph, if you push 11 NM, it goes to 20.1mph, it cuts out and you go from 20NM to 11NM, and slow down to about 10mph. It should taper off..
I have ridden my Creo SL at 52mph - it's an e road bike.
going down a long hill, with no assist, 'cos it cuts out at 15.5 mph .. 🙂
^^
this, my boardman adv 8.9e offers very little resistance after cutout, had it up to about 42 mph according to strava. legs spinning out on a hill, that's fast enough for me
totally useless reply to your question
Restricted is more dangerous off road than de restricted ime. Especially if jumps are involved
I was alluding to what SSS was saying.
If as a cube rider I see a spesh rider disappearing on a fire road climb it may well sway my next purchase.
Ignoring slight variations in power cut off points, it's not as simple as your example.
The fitness and weight of the riders will make a huge difference.
Also, and this is a huge misconception by people that haven't spent time on an ebike, you can't ride everywhere at the threshold of the motor cutting off. You're not zooming up every hill at 15.5mph
Ignoring slight variations in power cut off points, it’s not as simple as your example.
The fitness and weight of the riders will make a huge difference.
Yep, too many other variables at play to assume that one make of bike is faster than another just based on watching someone ride up a hill faster than someone else.
Having said that I think it's well understood that Bosch CX gen4 motor is the most powerful, followed by the spesh brose motor followed by the Shimano ep8, but the differences in power between them would not be an influencer as to what ebike I bought, I would buy based on other variables, like frame geo, components,price, after sales service ,reliability etc etc.
I got overtaken by an E bike a few weeks back when driving into Chester and it must have been doing 40mph on the flat. The guy wasn't even pedalling. I checked my car speedo at the time and I was doing 33. Must be some serious modifications going on there I'm guessing.
Whether you agree with de-restricting or not, I have my Kenevo set at 25mph. Not sure how fast I've been on the flat, but it doesn't cut out and my legs are spinning as fast as they'll go with a 32t front chainring, which can't be much different to a normal bike if I had the stamina to keep it up.
Downhill it's irrelevant, I think I've topped out at 45mph on my old triple chainring Enduro
Whether you agree with de-restricting or not
It's not about agreeing with it or not, it's about the potential consequences of riding an uninsured/untaxed motorbike.
I got overtaken by an E bike a few weeks back when driving into Chester and it must have been doing 40mph on the flat.
No you weren’t. You were overtaken by a motorcycle. It was powered by electricity.
My Focus cuts out at 16.7 MPH no matter what circumference you put in - except if you set it at the minimum possible which is 2199mm IIRC. Then it drops to about 15.8MPH. I have tried to check if what it says matches up with a Garmin etc by riding alongside someone but it's impossible to keep at the same speed long enough to check. Maybe need to get a tow rope or something... I'm not sure I'm that bothered though!
It’s not about agreeing with it or not, it’s about the potential consequences of riding an uninsured/untaxed motorbike.
Well, it obviously is about agreeing with it or not, you clearly disagree. The other bit is for me to worry about. And it's still a pedelec, not a motorbike
I'm going no faster on the flat, or downhill than I could on a normal bike due to the available cadence (you do realise they still only go as fast as your legs can spin, right?), just don't have the annoying cut-off at 16mph. It goes faster uphill than most people can ride normal bikes, but don't all e-bikes? Uphill, I very much doubt I'm doing more than 16mph, in fact I know I'm not
I’m going no faster on the flat, or downhill than I could on a normal bike due to the available cadence
Was a bit of a waste of money then wasn't it?
Ah but his range will be increased.
I’ve looked into one as I want to do 40-50 miles at a pootle effort as opposed to the full burn, over a big mountain and back again, for when I’m using the Bike as transport as opposed to fitness or fun.
(I’ll probably go for a surron under the eu law that requires a licence/insurance as I’m still sceptical on the reliability and prices of decent e-bikes)
Was a bit of a waste of money then wasn’t it?
Stupid comment for the sake of an argument
Either you don't understand e-bikes, or trolling
Do you seriously think the only point of an e-bike is to go faster than a normal bike on the flat? That would make the 16mph cut-off even more ridiculous
And it’s still a pedelec, not a motorbike
No its not. Legally you now have an uninsured and unroadworthy motorbike. for it to be an electric bicycle it needs the cutoff at 25kph
No its not. Legally you now have an uninsured and unroadworthy motorbike. for it to be an electric bicycle it needs the cutoff at 25kph
Correct.
Imagine if you will you get in an accident or god forbid hit and seriously injure a pedestrian. The police are going to look into it, examine the bike, find it has been illegally de restricted.
What do you think the police's or procurators going to do ?. A shrug of the shoulders. Just another accident, likely both are to blame in their own part.
Nope. You're fubar.
Agreed with dyna ti re if you have a crash
That said the limit of 15mph is a bit daft, I think 20 is more reasonable given any half fit person could easily achieve that on a road bike on the flat.
Re wheel size tricking the Speedo. Could you say the bike has a 650b wheel, and how much would that increase speed for the mathematicians amongst us?
gotta love this place.
derestricing the motor to go above 15.5mph is illegal/bad
incorrectly setting the wheel size and finding the biggest tyre you can to go above 15.5mph is fine
its tax evasion/avoidance, but im not a fan of ebikes so would just ban the lot 🙂
Well, it obviously is about agreeing with it or not, you clearly disagree. The other bit is for me to worry about. And it’s still a pedelec, not a motorbike
I'm not against a higher speed limit for ebikes but I wouldn't take the risk as it stands as the consequences are much to high, much like I wouldn't use an unlicenced electric scooter. In the UK a 45km/h limit ebike is treated in the same way as a moped, so you need a licence, insurance, number plates, tax, helmet etc. People who are happy to break the law riding derestricted ebikes tend to be unaware idiots or perfectly happy to break lots of other road laws too. There's a good reason most escooters outside of the trial areas tend to be ridden antisocially.
and how much would that increase speed for the mathematicians amongst us?
about 1mph.
So really you can have a higher speed ebike but it’s an s-pedalec and is treated as a moped so as having all the requirements outlined by Gribs with the added bonus of having a yearly mot after the initial first 3 years and you can’t ride on any cycle paths.
s pedelecs don't meet construction and use regs for motorcycles. Each one would have to be registered individually with Vospa(??) as a special and probably need significant modification even then
So is the spesh belonging to SSS legal? If I tweaked my E conversion to match the speed of my brothers factory cube would I be breaking the law?
I appreciate we are only talking about 1 mph but trying to keep up is bloody hard work.
Restricted is more dangerous off road than de restricted ime. Especially if jumps are involved
I dont think thats really an issue. Seen too many vids now with riders fairly flinging them about on jumps etc.
I dont think thats really an issue. Seen too many vids now with riders fairly flinging them about on jumps etc
You do realise who you are replying to, right? 🤣
So some one reckons restrictions are dangerous when jumping. Hilarious. Don't jump them or just pedal harder
I suspect Jedis comment is about if you are accelerating into a jump and hit the limiter just before the ramp it could do funny things to your take off speed / attitude of the bike but seeing as he has more riding skill in his little finger than I have ever had ..................................
Agreed teej
You do realise who you are replying to, right? 🤣
🙄
Perhaps then he isnt used to ebikes. It just isnt a comment that is wholly correct.
OK, these guys have plenty of skill, but the point was theres not enough acceleration rather that concentrate on how skillful the rider is.
Orbea Rise(60nm i think)/Canyon Torque ON 85nm
I’m not great at jumping but I’ve spent enough time on ebikes and enough time in the air to know that the last thing you want when hitting a take-off is your motor cutting out at the wrong moment. And having been coached by Jedi, seen how he coaches others and seen how he rides (on normal bikes and ebikes) I’d trust his opinion on this!
Surely you only get assist when you are pedalling?
And if you are still pedalling as you hit a take off, you’ve probably got other issues to deal with…
s pedelecs don’t meet construction and use regs for motorcycles. Each one would have to be registered individually with Vospa(??) as a special and probably need significant modification even then
TBH I’d been reading this
Registering s-pedelec in the uk
which was interesting and just raises more issues of the hassle for legally owning a higher powered e-bike.
I’d picked up on the inconvenience of having a regular mot but the more you look at it the uk’s just not set up for it.
But Riese und Muller have done it in the U.K.
The other issue I’ve not seen mentioned before is also having to do a moped cbt unless your an oldie.
I’d picked up on the inconvenience of having a regular mot but the more you look at it the uk’s just not set up for it.
But Riese und Muller have done it in the U.K.
I think you hit the nail on the head there with regards to UK approach to pedelecs… My good mate used to be the UK rep for Riese & Muller, and when he finished to pursue his own interests I had an interview for the job, and in hindsight, kinda glad I didn’t get it… Not because they’re not great products, far from it. I just think the UK has too far to go before they will understand how and why eBikes are such an important part of the transport infrastructure, and our outdated laws really don’t help with uptake of them… I am certainly not advocating people break the laws by any stretch, my own eBike is restricted to 15.5mph and will remain so until any laws changed, but I think those that impose the laws don’t fully understand their consequences if I’m honest.
The other issue I’ve not seen mentioned before is also having to do a moped cbt unless your an oldie.
You’ll have to put L plates on too unless you’ve passed your motorbike test!
That said the limit of 15mph is a bit daft, I think 20 is more reasonable given any half fit person could easily achieve that on a road bike on the flat.
I completely agree, but good luck trying to get that changed in the UK any time soon!
One and only time I think I can say that American law makers have got something right when the UK and the EU hasn’t…
gotta love this place.
derestricing the motor to go above 15.5mph is illegal/bad
incorrectly setting the wheel size and finding the biggest tyre you can to go above 15.5mph is fineits tax evasion/avoidance
😂
about 1mph.
There’s slightly more than 10% difference actually, so closer to 2mph than 1mph… I have used a control 2.4” tyre size for both 27.5 and 29er rim sizes, working out the total tyre circumferences using the calculation C = 2 x Pi x r
having ridden in the netherlands on shared use paths and cycleways 15 mph ebikes hardly sit well with the rest of the bike users. Its apparently also a big source of injuries now old folk crashing ebikes. the ebikes cutting thru heavy cycle traffic where everyone else is doing 8 - 10 mph are a menace
20mph would be fine for road use in experienced riders hands but thats not what this is about. Its about a rule that works for all all over europe.
And in the UK, where there isn’t the infrastructure there is in the Netherlands or much of mainland Europe, 15.5mph can feel dangerous on congested roads where traffic is typically doing 20-30mph most of the time…
My point is that 15.5mph (25kph) seems to have been arbitrarily decided upon as a compromise that suits nobody rather than providing a best fit for all involved!
the 15.5 mph limit came from EU legislation that was done to produce the best fit overall
“Surely you only get assist when you are pedalling?”
No, you get a bit of over-run after you stop pedalling. Just for a moment but it makes quite a difference.
15.5mph can feel dangerous on congested roads where traffic is typically doing 20-30mph most of the time…
My point is that 15.5mph (25kph) seems to have been arbitrarily decided upon as a compromise that suits nobody rather than providing a best fit for all involved!
Dunno….
How fast are you prepared to let people loose on something that goes faster than 15.5 mph without a helmet/insurance or any training requirement ?
No arguing that you can peddle at 20mph all day without an electric motor already 🙂
No, you get a bit of over-run after you stop pedalling. Just for a moment but it makes quite a difference.
that still sounds like a terrible idea.
How fast are you prepared to let people loose on something that goes faster than 15.5 mph without a helmet/insurance or any training requirement ?
I think I’ve topped out at 45mph on my old triple chainring Enduro
🤷
Should we put speed limiters on normal MTB's?
No arguing that you can peddle at 20mph all day without an electric motor already 🙂
Why not? Because it would dilute your argument?
I couldn't pedal at 20mph all day, but there are plenty of humans who can. And then some
No, you get a bit of over-run after you stop pedalling. Just for a moment but it makes quite a difference.
Is that not dependent on the motor manufacturer ?. I remember seeing something when Rob on EMTB was testing different motors a couple of years ago, and they pointed out one over the others that had this feature- Because sometimes gaps in rocks can be tight with no pedal room, the extra oomph gave it a little extra kick to help you through or over a lip or something.
I cant remember which motor it was though.
Is that not dependent on the motor manufacturer ?. I remember seeing something when Rob on EMTB was testing different motors a couple of years ago, and they pointed out one over the others that had this feature
Yes ,the Bosch gen 4 started it, not all motors have it, and I think it is pretty useful for tech climbing. I think the EU rules allow something like a max 2 meters of 'overrun'
Why not? Because it would dilute your argument?
I couldn’t pedal at 20mph all day, but there are plenty of humans who can. And then some
Yes and no, the issue is that very few people just suddenly decide to just hop on a bike and start blasting around at 20mph(excluding the few outliers) you have to be pretty fit and by the time you can pedal at that speed you may have some bike handling and are unlikely to bounce off a car at the first corner.
IMHO this learning experience doesn't necessarily naturally occur with an un restricted ebike.
E-bikes are also a new market and appeal to people who wouldn’t think about cycling.
I’m actually ambivalent on e-bikes and the speed limits and tbh don’t see why you can’t have a old school competency test to let you have something legally a little quicker but don’t see flooding the market with cheap Chinese e-bikes doing 45 mph a great thing.