[Closed] Are there actually any fun 4” sus frames?

orange blood or st4, banshee spitfire (ish), cannondale rize

I dont think anything exists but if something did then I'd probably buy it. 4x frames would be perfect but they usually only have a 16inch seat tube (max) which isnt ideal for putting the saddle up high with.

Someone mentioned a pivot mach 4 the other day, dont know what they are but worth looknig aT?

older trance.

ran one for YEARS with 5" forks on front. sexy fun.

Nicolai Helius CC - adjustable down to 88, 102, 118, 129mm. It will become slacker with a lower bb when at the lower rear travel settings with a longer fork.

Alternatively the current Helius AC with a 50mm stroke shock can be run at 106mm at the rear.

I have to say my CC which is fitted with a Talas 140 fork is superb.

pivot mach 4

There's your answer.

Having said that, I've got a 100mm Pronghorn, and that's tremendous fun in a how-am-I-still-intact? kinda way. I ride it on all sorts of terrain.

EDIT: Also, the Morewood Zula takes bigger forks (my buddy runs 100-130mm? Revs) and is built like a brick shitehouse.

been running a cannondale rush and a 130mm revelation for a while and it's a keeper. Most 100mm bikes end up with a silly high bb once you start adding fork length.

fork at 120mm in the pic

[url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5058/5525581739_1278eccea2_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5058/5525581739_1278eccea2_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/35180712@N03/5525581739/ ]rush5[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/35180712@N03/ ]simon gardiner[/url], on Flickr

At risk of becoming a parrot over it, have you checked out the [url= http://singletrackmag.com/reviews/long-termers-benji%e2%80%99s-pivot-mach-4-7/ ]Pivot Mach 4[/url]? There soon to be released M4X (yes it's a 4X version) of the same frame looks to have major potential.

Along with the SC Superlight, surprisingly tough, though more at home as "bruiser" with 120mm up front.

Rift Zone? 4" travel but built for trails more than racing from what I gather. I've no idea how it would handle longer forks.

Why are you all listing lightweight xc frames?

They arent going to survive jumps/drops/dh tracks.

Standard answer from me - track down a Blur 4X. I had a Soul for a couple of years but wanted something that would take more of a beating, allow me to run bigger forks (had a trip to the Alps looming too) but pedal like a hardtail and be ok for long days in the saddle. Blur ticked all the boxes.

Run mine with 160mm 36 Floats, doesn't feel wander-ey at all. Ever. 70mm stem, 760mm bars, Joplin 3, 1x9 setup etc. Its superb. Really, really superb.

I'm a bit of a serial bike swapper but every time I get itchy feet with the Blur, I look at what else there is out there to replace it with and/or go for a ride on it and change my mind.

Well worth trying to track one down if you can. Mines a medium and I'm 5'8" - wouldn't want to be any taller on a medium. The large is about the same height but an inch longer I think...

Oh, BTW, the ONLY frame/bike I've seen I'd like to have a go on with a view to changing my Blur, is the GT Distortion. Looks awesome.

Infact, I used to have the ideal bike myself. 2003 specialized supercross, it was a bit small for me for xc stuff though but it was good fun and heavy (so it must have been strong)

Yeh that GT looks ok. The saracen ariel looks ok too but its got an inch too much travel

Like I say it's not a plan to buy one (although it could be the start of a slippery slope). At the moment I have a BFe which is ace but there are times when a bit of squish would be good to take the edge of things and to ease my slightly shonky back. When I've built up frames like Hecklers etc they've ended up seeming a bit overkill and I have a DH bike for days on our downhill courses.

Threads I've read about Superlights and so on seem to suggest they are much happier running 100mm forks with all round ground covering builds.

At the moment I have a hardtail which rides well downhill, works on big days out and will fail long after I do on more severe trails.

Seems a shame that Cotic didn't develop the Hemlock idea further, ho hum.

[i]They arent going to survive jumps/drops/dh tracks. [/i]

Where did he say "fun = jumps/drops/dh"?
That and any number of these lightweight frame listed above will quite happily survive jumps/drops/dh.

and again parroting... SL works well with 120mm forks as a trailbike, but is a race machine @ 100mm IMHO of course..

There arent many that dont have horrible racey type geometry..

but
Transition double
commencal absolute
Mythic rampant

the ragley fs is 100/150, not sure when it's due though.

no, not a cannondale rize.

i spent the last six monts riding one and can not vouch for it as a hooligan bike.

i'd go for a Liteville 301 [img] [/img]

can be built up with various rear ends giving between 100 - 150mm of travel. will take a 100 - 170mm fork.

light and stiff as buggery. bit pricey, though.

tracknicko - Member
older trance.

2003 specialized supercross, it was a bit small for me for xc stuff though but it was good fun and heavy (so it must have been strong)

great bikes but I snapped two sets of chainstays.

ive had 3 trances. never broke any.

well not in a catasrophic way anyways.

have a bit of a reputation for breaking bits, frames themseleves always did very well!

Where did he say "fun = jumps/drops/dh"?

Jumps/drops/dh is fun

That and any number of these lightweight frame listed above will quite happily survive jumps/drops/dh.

Although maybe not the sort that a 5.5lb full sus frame will cope with.

want that liteville! sadly bank account says don't you bloody dare! 🙂

Alpin, where do you get Liteville from in the UK?

Gt Distortion, no question. Had a demo one for a few weeks, was awesome.

Complete bikes only though and not many left for the year.

2011 Rize (RZ120) has altered geometry, is now classed as a trail bike, slacker head angles this year, although completes only again.

Hmm, might have to try and track down a demo.

Calling STW - have you still got yours? Want to lend it me for a week?

Although maybe not the sort that a 5.5lb full sus frame will cope with.

only if your a biffer 😉

where do you get Liteville from in the UK?

Posh bike in maidstone, used to be a UK dealer/distributer but are no longer listed on the Liteville site... give em a ring/email?

or a gnarler

grrrrrrrrrr

watch yourself, that amount of gnarl could melt a morewood zula

I have an old 4" Trance. Rides much better with a 130mm fork than the 100mm stock unit. Lardy, but fun.

what about a Blackmarket Killswitch or DMR Bolt. not exactly sure how much travel you can stick up front but they're both solid short-travel bikes designed to be thrown about the place.

[img] http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTxa3a3RAvKSEpB5gJkp7__llTZx34EBMQAKfS6YcBFi3mx3DCY&t=1 [/img]

[img] [/img]

They're full suspension dirt jump frames? They look pointless and are no better (worse infact) than a 4x frame

Blur TRc, size large, then sell it to me (and lol)

old trance with a 130mm fork here too. if you are breaking such a frame on jumps and drops then you need to smooth out your riding style, or ride a hardtail for a while to figure out how to ride smoothly. I think people that learn to mtb on full sus don't understand how to use their bodies to absorb energy.

all about the old trances! tho i just sold mine and am having a HT revival.

I had this quandry back along and settled on a £190 Trance frame from the bay, great fun..

[url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5261/5647198642_6387d43345_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5261/5647198642_6387d43345_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/10818473@N07/5647198642/ ]DSCF6597[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/10818473@N07/ ]Jackass123456789[/url], on Flickr

I made this last week. Same travel as my old Epic but much more chuckable.

Needs more testing but so far i'm very pleased with it.

Blur Classic... (straight out of the stand)

[IMG] [/IMG]

Tested!

[IMG] [/IMG]

That DMR looks fun 🙂 I do like my ST4 (110m rear/120mm front).

[url= http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2181/5764364421_57b21a8f30_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2181/5764364421_57b21a8f30_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexleigh/5764364421/ ]Triggers Broom[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/alexleigh/ ]Alex Leigh[/url], on Flickr

1300km+ now since last Sept. Really fun bike to ride. Not exactly light but otherwise ace. Fella I ride with has an Anthem X. He loves that, quite lively steering then!

Cheap wee blood on fleabay at the moment

bigjim, I've been a die hard hardtail rider for over 20 years and am quite happy riding most on my BFe.

I'm talking about a bike to ease things a bit rather than a skill compensator. I'm don't suppose for a minute that I'd ever break an SC Superlight but at the same time don't want to **** up the handling of a bike for the sake of putting what I see as regular kit on it.

It looks like there may be one or two (mostly expensive) options which makes it easier for me to decide to sit tight for the right thing to come along.

Seems to me that a lot of people out there would go for a frame of the type I'm describing.

That's what I wanted with the ST4. Still have and ride my HT (although not much). I wanted something I could ride here (Malverns, FoD) and further afield. ST4 has been ridden all over the place including some pretty rocky stuff in Wales, the odd trail centre, and it's been great everywhere.

Occasionally I'd like my HT on some trails, but basically this is the bike I ride for everything. I'm even considering taking it down CwmCarn DH course 🙂

bigjim, I've been a die hard hardtail rider for over 20 years and am quite happy riding most on my BFe.

sorry that wasnt aimed at you ;). the trance is my first full susser after years on a hardtail - I chose it because the maestro suspension just seemed the most bearable/non bouncy coming from a hardtail. that was a few years ago so there are a wider range of rear suspensions now, but if you like hammering out of the saddle a la hardtail then i would def test ride a few different bikes to get a feel of the suspension and how it responds to that.

It's always a funny one for me. I love riding a long travel bike downhill (currently a Stinky with Boxxers) but whenevr I build up a full sus for generaly riding I feel underwhelmed. I've had a few decent frames but they always seem to deaden the ride and make the forest singletrack I mostly ride feel kind of numb. I was hoping the last one (Meta 4) would be the one but it just didn't feel very lively.

if you are breaking such a frame on jumps and drops then you need to smooth out your riding style, or ride a hardtail for a while to figure out how to ride smoothly.

Or pick the right tool for the job!

Can only echo what others have said and recommend the Blur 4x - fantastic bike.

Am about to sell my Large ano silver frame too, just have to finish replacing the busings & bearings.

Spitfire double discount ?

Reading this I'm regretting ever selling mine...send me some details of yours please honourable george 😉

I've just slackened a Pace RC405 by two degrees using a custom-made angleset, but you can buy them off the shelf. Seatpost angle doesn't get screwed as it would using a longer fork, drops the bottom bracket slightly, needs a shorter stem to keep the steering usable and it's made it feasible to chuck a black-boxed 150mm coil u-turn Sektor on the front.

Totally changed the feel of the bike, much more stable downhill, still a really good climbing bike.

Anyway, my point is that with the ability to tweak head angles, you can be a load more creative with frames, you're no longer stuck with the manufacturer's chosen geometry - you can modify things to suit your own preference. So you could take a shorter-travel trail bike and slacken it off a bit, bang longer forks on without screwing up the weight distribution and seat angle and so on.

Works Components do a whole bunch of angleset type things to fit various headtube configurations, so you, for example, take a Trance and make it slacker and use a longer fork for a bit more amusement in a way that would be horrid with the original angles.

Anyway, just a thought.

As a partial compromise, can you fit a wider rim and bigger tyre in the back of the BFe? Otherwise a Blur 4X and a long seatpost makes sense.

Could I have some details on your blur please honourablegeorge

I have a long blur 4x and am 6'3". Its a bit cramped on long climbs but not too bad. Most fun bike i've had coming down. Anything bigger than a 2.25 advantage won't fit in the rear.

Morewood ndiza looks none too shabby either.

Honourablegeorge, you are bonkers. Keep it.

Foes 4X or XCT2:1

[img] [/img]

transition double all the way

[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/ukbikeskills/5857959102/in/photostream ]VIDEO[/url]

Some of those frames would be ace if I was a bit shorter. I guess the question should be what are the 4" equivalents to a large BFe??

The Foes XTC looks nice but the top tubes look like they were designed for people with stumps for arms and a max 2.2 tyre on a modern 'trail' bike, really?

Someone mentioned the old Enduro SX - my son has outgrown his Hardrock so wanted another bike and was keen on taking my BFe. To distract him I build this up from the spares bin:
[img] [/img]
It's not light but he thinks it's cool and fun, which seems to be more important to a 15-year old!

Lucky 15 year old!

I used a Kona Howler for 2 to 3 hours razzing round the local woods and FoD. It was awesome fun and I took it to Cwmcarn for uplift days and entered miniDH too. Ran it with a coil shock and Pikes up front wound up or down depending on what I was doing.

Nice ideas but they seem to he straying into the "mini DH bike that you can haul around on longer rides too" kind of idea. Been there, done that and it didn't suit.

Seriously, a [url= http://www.morewoodbikes.com/bikes/xc-marathon/zula/ ]Zula[/url] is what you want.

Comfy enough for me to ride 38 miles on the road, light enough to then cycle up Dumyat, and stong enough to withstand my ham-fisted point-at-the-bottom-and-hope effort at bombing back down.

You could try and find one of the original 4" travel hecklers (for next to nothing probably). I did everything on mine: alps/bike parks etc. Pretty sturdy and work well with a 130-140mm fork. Only problem might be tyre clearance but you can definitely get 2.35 high rollers on one

There's also the lesser known but incredible value YT indestries Play bike (100-130mm travel) - £1600 full bike:

http://www.yt-industries.com/

[img] [/img]

it'd need a long seat post for 'proper rides' but the long version has a 590 tt length so it shouldnt be to bad.

Nice ideas but they seem to he straying into the "mini DH bike that you can haul around on longer rides too" kind of idea. Been there, done that and it didn't suit.

I'm probably miles off the mark in the other direction but there's the [url= http://www.specialized.com/gb/gb/bc/SBCProduct.jsp?spid=52783&scid=1000&scname=Mountain ]Evo version of the Specialized Epic[/url]. It still has 100mm at the rear but the Evo bit means 120mm forks, so slacker head angle, wider bars, uppy/downy post etc. Some review I saw of it raved about it but it's definitely a short travel trail ripper rather than a play bike.

Mythic Rampant

[pub banter style post]
st - what have you tried before that felt dead and not what you're looking for? And anyway, I thought BFes were meant for razzing round the woods and jumping and dropping and general DH style tomfoolery. Do you run yours with SIDs up front or something?

Maybe have to up to 120mm and look at Trek EX or Yeti ASR5 - more in common with trail bikes than XC whippets.

tomglass20 - Member
Could I have some details on your blur please honourablegeorge

Tom - it's an anodised silver large Blur 4x frame, a Fox RP23 shock (upgrade over standard), I bought it in November 2006.

I've serviced the shock (new fluid, replaced all the seals) and have replaced the bearings, fitted new bushings and shock mount (well, I will - I have the tool, the bearings, the bushings and all the rest, just need to find the time).

Frame has the usual bit of cable rub and scuffs, but in good nick. I'm in Ireland, but I can probably ship it for free.

honourablegeorge - how much are you after for the frame?

Those yet-to-be-released Ragley's sound more like the thing.

slight hijack but my kona dawg will be going on the classifieds this evening. Its an 04 frame so 100mm travel rather than the bigger travel of later years.

putting pikes at 140mm on the front slackened it our slightly and its been great fun to ride, from twisty singletrack to the Nevis Red DH. Let me know if you're interested, otherwise it'll be on the classifieds soon anyway

Definition of a fun 4" full sus:

[img] [/img]

Hob Nob - Member
honourablegeorge - how much are you after for the frame?

Not sure what they're selling for, tbh. I'll have a trawl through the EBay listings once I've finished sorting it to figure out a fair price.

Seem to go for about £500 usually mate.

Based on how much fun I've had with my Mondraker Foxy, I'd suggest taking a look at the 2011 Factor (120mm little brother of the aforementioned)

[url= http://singletrackmag.com/reviews/premier-mondraker-factor-rr/ ]singletrack review[/url]
going by the above, I'd consider better tyres and a shorter stem though

Another 4x recommendation from me, here's mine:

[img] [/img]

Santa Cruz Blur 4x or (if, like me, you are fairly light and don't need the heavier weight tubing) Blur Classic. Less racey geo than the Blur XC, 115mm of travel, takes a 120mm+ fork well as the original angle is quite steep so a longer fork (I run a Classic with DT Swiss XMC130) just brings the geo to current norm.

I don't really want more rear travel, it would just slow me down in southern england and even trips to more XC-oriented trail centres like CYB would see a trade-off from more rear travel. Whereas I have found the longer travel front end really helps speed and security on the rough, with no real disadvantages (especially with the Launch Control, which takes out half the travel for climbing/roads).

Usually plenty of Blurs about for sale SH in decent nick - I sought out a decent condition, post 2004 (when tyre clearance was made sensible) Classic.

Liking the 4Xs with 36s up front. Only had Pikes on mine.

I ran mine with 140mm Thors for about a year and it was excellent but just wanted something a bit more loony! Fits the bill perfectly and I've noticed no trade off in terms of climbing ability but on the descents its flippin crazy!

Right - my 4x frame is now totally play free, new bearings, new shock mount, replaced a pivot axle, cleaned it, new seals in the RP23.

I'll stick it on the classifieds.

my mate lairy nick does everything on his transition double!
if it had front mech guides i'd have one 🙂
[url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5078/5857408823_7a5822bf45.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5078/5857408823_7a5822bf45.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/ukbikeskills/5857408823/ ]DSC04284[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/ukbikeskills/ ]ukbikeskills[/url], on Flickr

[url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5072/5874495956_c39d940797.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5072/5874495956_c39d940797.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/ukbikeskills/5874495956/ ]DSC04665[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/ukbikeskills/ ]ukbikeskills[/url], on Flickr