[Closed] Are Sapim D-Lights strong enough for a front enduro wheel?

Unless you are heavy or super gnarr I think they would be fine but since they only offer a small weight saving which is going to be dwarfed by the enduro tyre you will be putting on why not stick with Race and have peace of mind?

Built a wheel with lasers, found them a pain to build as they spokes twisted very easily. Would try D-Lights next time if the sapim blurb says they are less susceptible.

I predominantly build with Race's and never have any issues during the build or in use.

Are you aiming to build a light set of wheels?

I just figured I could save a bit of weight on the front, but I like to give the bike some stick, so probably better off with Race, given the weight saving will be negligible.

Is the weight saving even worth it? I built a recent set of wheels where I was aiming for light but strong ish - just used DT Competitions - which are broadly the same as Sapim Race I think.

I build all my wheels with D-lights. I'm 92 kgs and can ride a bit. Never had any failures or trouble with bendy wheels.

Never had any failures, unlike DT super comps.

I'm running 4 wheels built with D-lights, self built with no issues, I love them, the interesting thing about them is that the threaded section is wider than the shaft so if they're a little too long they'll keep tightening instead of binding.
I will only use sapim polyax nipples in my builds so I guess that also makes me a Sapim fanboy.
They actually list their strengths on the website and D-lights are stronger than Race and their straight gauge Leader spoke.
D-lights 1370 N/mm2.
Race 1300.
Leader 1180.

Mick, despite the polyax having the best reputation of all alu nipples, Ive avoided them because alu.

What's your experience of them long term?

The Newmen Evolution wheels are all built with D-Lights, I have two sets, zero issues, and reviews all good too.

I don't use alloy nips, sorry, can't help on that one.

What’s your experience of them long term?

I use the DT Squorx and never have any issues, easy to build with compared to a normal nipple.

They actually list their strengths on the website and D-lights are stronger than Race and their straight gauge Leader spoke.
D-lights 1370 N/mm2.
Race 1300.
Leader 1180.

Surely that means they are weaker?  1370N/mm2 with diameter of 1.65mm comes to less than 1300N/mm2 with a diameter of 1.8mm.  Someone correct me if I’m wrong, I may be misunderstanding what the numbers mean

It's probably pretty complicated tbh, they're all supposedly butted to put strength where it's most needed so looking at the centre butting might not be all that important. 1300n/mm2 is still lots, not even sure it's a useful measure- it won't be simple overloading that breaks spokes, but fatigue, stress risers and damage.

Back to OP, just about any spoke is strong enough to build most bike wheels. If you want to use less spokes you might have to start thinking more about it but even a Laser will build a strong enough wheel for 32h, just without the margins for error for impact damage etc and maybe a noticable drop in stiffness (depending on your mix of parts). All that said, I use lasers for lightweight because they're cheap, and whatever sensible db spoke I can find at the right price for strong, I don't reckon the d-light is really worth the extra cost.

My experience with Lazers is that they are strong enough ‘till you get twigs in your wheel. I’ve not used D-lights, but they look as if they’d be less prone to being snapped in that way.

I’ve used d-lights for years with zero problems.

Mick, despite the polyax having the best reputation of all alu nipples, Ive avoided them because alu.

You get polyax brass nipples

If you need 276's in black then I've a full set of 64 I need to sell as I ended up needing 274's.

I'm not sure on lengths yet, but the build will be on Hope Pro4 boost hubs with WTB KOM i35 rims.

No worries, my build was dt240's on WTB KOM i29's. After the first 16 spokes went in I knew they would be too long. 274's were perfect.
Would be after £48 posted for 66 (2 spares!) spokes with unused nipples.

I'm a newbie to wheel building, but wouldn't you have three separate spoke lengths for a full geared wheel build - one for both disc sides, one each for the non disc sides?

276, 274 according to my calculator for kom tough i35.

TrailriderJim
Free Member

I’m a newbie to wheel building, but wouldn’t you have three separate spoke lengths for a full geared wheel build – one for both disc sides, one each for the non disc sides?

Depends on the parts- my plus wheels ended up using the same spokes for everything (there was a little variation but +/- a mm doesn't matter at all, and you can go a little further if you're feeling brave). I suspect that some hub manufacturers design their flanges to help with this while others just don't care about it/think something else is more important

I’m a newbie to wheel building, but wouldn’t you have three separate spoke lengths for a full geared wheel build – one for both disc sides, one each for the non disc sides?

Not necessarily. Hope hubs are pretty good in this respect and most of my wheels are close enough to only need 2 lengths per pair.

27.5 kom tough 35 erd 568, kom light 35 erd 569
Pro4 boost front
offset left 25 right 33
Pro4 boost rear
Offset left 35 right 22
Flange 57 on both sides f&r, aka spoke pcd
Spoke hole 2.6
Offset also referred to as hub centre to flange.

So it's fair to say D-Lights are strong enough for front and rear but would it be best to build the right rear side with a stronger spoke, to offset the unbalanced tension?

You won't 'off set' the tension by using a stronger spoke, it will still be there.

Did you mean for it to accommodate the additional strain?

From the Sheldon Brown guide:

Thicker spokes for the right side of a dished rear wheel (a wheel used with a multi-sprocket cluster) than the left side are a good idea, because the left-side spokes are under lower tension. The thinner spokes on the left side will be working more nearly at the tension for which they are designed, and so they will be stretched more and less likely to go slack.

My take on this is it's a good idea to use a thicker spoke in the right to offset the difference in tension.

My thoughts are that it makes sod all difference in the real world. Yes the spokes in the NDS on rear will be under only 60-70% of the DS spokes, but it really makes no difference to the strength or stiffness of the wheel. It doesn’t flex any more, it doesn’t break any more spokes. Consider.

A carbon wheel will likely have 110-130kgf in the spokes, a Crest will have 50-80kgf. The spoke tension in the NDS of the carbon rimmed wheel will have greater tension than anywhere in the Crest wheel.

You won’t ‘off set’ the tension by using a stronger spoke

Don't confuse stiffer with stronger. The thicker gauge spoke will be stiffer, not necessarily any stronger (in fact often the reverse is true).

So it’s fair to say D-Lights are strong enough for front and rear but would it be best to build the right rear side with a stronger spoke, to offset the unbalanced tension?

Again don't confuse stiffness with strength. The argument is that you can build as strong, or actually a stronger wheel, with more compliance by using the thinner spokes on the non drive side (and on the non disc side on a front wheel) where the stiffness isn't required as shown by the lower spoke tensions used. You want a stiff drive side on the rear, and disc side on the front ideally, but on the non drive side rear and non disc side front, there's inherently a lot more stifness built in by the bracing angle of the spokes, so compensating with lower tensions and possibly thinner (more elastic) spokes can bring superior ride qualities without compromising strength.