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I was curious after reading the Chipps article on knives.
One of my older multi tools - a Topeak Alien has a short (?3cm) blade which will lock open. Is this technically illegal to carry/making me subject to arrest because it locks?
Not if you have a justified reason for carrying one.
I have similar on my Gerber suspension, i used it to free a sheep caught in brambles. A passing copper helped me and didn't mention the knife.
But I wasn't in a city centre pub
A locking blade is illegal irrespective of length, but there is an exemption for 'lawful authority or reasonable excuse'. Lawful authority is intended to cover the army, etc, and discussion I've seen on caving and paddling forums has been to the effect that if you're carrying ropes for safety, a knife is reasonable. But I haven't heard of a test case, and I while suppose it could be argued that you would need to say why you need a knife to fix a bike, I've not worried about it.
Maybe one of the police officers or lawyers will comment?
Hope not As I tend to have a leatherman on me or close by most of the time.
I've used it for bike maintenance and first aid - mostly cutting tubes/tape for bodging repairs to get broken me/bike home.
As part of my work I occasionally visit prison cells / courts and I usually remember to leave tools / medicines / phones at the desk - mostly to reduce self harm risk if a "customer" some how manages to get into my bag. No ones commented on it yet.
They're mostly a canny lot the police but have occasionally come across an officer who's an arse so I want to make sure I don't give them an excuse to nab me for carrying a weapon
You'd need a reason for having it, unfortunately I wouldn't trust the police to make the right call should they be presented with the opportunity.
Lawful authority is intended to cover the army, etc,
It’s far simpler than that as the military come under very different exemptions, you can carry one to and from work or use for sports but has to be justified. Carrying it with you in your bike out in the hills would cover it if you explain why you needed it.
Looked into this a while ago. If it has a folding non locking blade under 3 inches you can carry it on you down the high street just because you want to. You don't red a reason.
If it's over 3 inches or a locking knife e.g. a Gerber or Leatherman you can have it on your person as long as you have reasonable cause to require it. So walking down the high street isn't a good reason but requiring it for work or whilst out on the hills is.
I don't carry a multitool 'cause they weigh a bloody ton. There is a Victorinox in my Camelbak that I've used very occasionally. I don't think I've ever worried about it not having a lock.
Edit, one of these:
[img] 
[/img]
What do you reckon the law says about carrying one of [url= https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006QIPMQM/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ]these[/url]? Locking blade, but is it a knife?
The issue there is the reasonable cause is (presumably) cutting trees/deadwood (causing damage) on land you dont own.. so either way you are in potentially trouble
What do you reckon the law says about carrying one of these? Locking blade, but is it a knife?
Depends on the setting I guess..
Do you really think the feds would try to do you for guerilla pruning on RoWs?
I wouldn't worry about carrying a folding saw, unless you're wearing a hoody and baseball cap and hanging around the street in Peckham.
Locking blade, but is it a knife?
For the avoidance of any court cases and the such I would consider it to be one and stick to the "good reason" approach to carrying it.
Although that in itself isnt that clear so always best to err towards caution.
I have a lock knife in my walking rucksack. I've used it a couple of times, cutting a bit of rope for something and some other reason. I have zero reason to worry about carrying it as the chance of me being stopped and searched on a hill walk must be fairly remote.
Maybe one of the police officers or lawyers will comment?
Cyclists/walkers/climbers etc. with multi tools/Leathermen/Swiss Army knives do not need to worry.
For the avoidance of any court cases and the such I would consider it to be one and stick to the "good reason" approach to carrying it.
It is one it has a blade on it that makes it a knife.
The key carrying anything deemed 'dubious' is justification. Walking down the local high street waving a serrated saw or carrying a small knife with a locking blade while on a night out on the drink may result in action being taken against you. Carrying the same items in a pack up on the hills or in the woods for (legal) trail maintenance or repair duties can be justified and folk shouldn't be worried.
For anyone who believes they would be arrested for carrying a knife (whilst out on the bike) which forms part of a multi-tool is seriously misinformed, has no knowledge of the law or watches too much TV.
Or maybe they grew up in a deprived area where police abusing their powers was rife.For anyone who believes they would be arrested for carrying a knife (whilst out on the bike) which forms part of a multi-tool is seriously misinformed, has no knowledge of the law or watches too much TV.
A middle class middle aged person out in the country side likely wouldn't be arrested. A young kid riding about in their local council scheme, park or woods is another story.
Or maybe they grew up in a deprived area where police abusing their powers was rife.
Desperate attempt to get dig in at the police there.
A middle class middle aged person out in the country side likely wouldn't be arrested. A young kid riding about in their local council scheme, park or woods is another story.
Obviously, because clearly the reasons for carrying said knife are entirely different. Are you too blind and prejudiced to see that?
No, just experience.Desperate attempt to get dig in at the police there.
Why would they have different reasons? They would both use it to repair their bike? It's not me being prejudiced.Obviously, because clearly the reasons for carrying said knife are entirely different. Are you too blind and prejudiced to see that?
Technically carrying a kitchen knife in a washing up bowl across a camp site is illegal.
I would be happy to carry a locking blade knife in my camelbak when out mountain biking, have you ever seen a policeman out on the moors? It kind of explains the lack of raptors.
Carrying the same items in a pack up on the hills or in the woods for (legal) trail maintenance or repair duties can be justified and folk shouldn't be worried
To my mind it depends largely on intent and location. If you’re the sort of person who regularly gets into trouble and you’re carrying a knife to a pub, in your pocket, then don’t moan if you get rugged by the law.
If you’re a fine upstanding joe bloggs and carry a knife as a tool, in a sheath at the bottom of your bag then nobody will ever know or care.
I nearly always carry a Leatherman like many of us on here, plus it could be classed as a tool of my trade. Right now it’s at the bottom of my panniers. I have absolutely no concerns carrying it at all.
Had never considered this, have a wee multi tool in the front of the van with a small blade on it. Sure it would be fine but could easily be questioned why it was the only tool not in my tool box. Also carried about a hammer in the front seat for a week when my starter motor was playing up. Didn't consider the implications of that until someone questioned it!
A mate was working around my house, stuck a stanley knife in his pocket when moving between tasks. I dropped him off in the pub after we finished and got a call shortly after to come back down, he'd put his hand in his pocket to find the knife - was in a pretty dodgy pub too. He'd have really struggled to explain that one!
Technically carrying a kitchen knife in a washing up bowl across a camp site is illegal.
No that’s a justified reason legal but I see what you’re trying to get at.
I have a knife on me all the time - small multi tool thing, river knife (3" fixed), climbing knife (2" folder) and bushcraft knife (3" fixed). I regularly walk into schools with half a dozen fixed blade knives in a bag.
I've never had a problem, and even chatted to police with climbing knife in full view on harness or colleagues with paddling knife on buoyancy aid.
There is a world of difference between being on a river bank, canoeing and having a blade in the glovebox with no job or activity to support why. I do know one forest school practitioner who has his knife confiscated - he was walking home across princess street in Edinburgh with it hanging on his belt, not in rucsack.
When I go into school, ours are in a 'danger box', with fire lighting things, in a bag. I've never had it challenged by schools.
is 'fear of terrorism' a justifiable reason for carrying a whopping great knife in the car glove box.
asking for a fiend.
When I go into school, ours are in a '[b]danger box', [/b]with fire lighting things, in a bag. I've never had it challenged by schools.
Cool name.
Why would they have different reasons? They would both use it to repair their bike? It's not me being prejudiced.
I don't know, it's your scenario, you're trying to depict a scene of injustice, not me.
is 'fear of terrorism' a justifiable reason for carrying a whopping great knife in the car glove box.
asking for a fiend.
Fiend or not, but you sound like the bloke behind me a few days ago. A tree just fell down blocking the road. I got out and scoped routes around. Bloke behind me got out a handy machete and started hacking at it. He wasn't getting out of a gardener's van either 🙂
Anyway, I personally would stick to UK legal carry, as I have a history of the odd stop and search by the police.
Cool name
It's either an old biscuit tin or cheap Wickes toolbox, so well cool....
Oooh judt like those 80s firework safety films.
Fiend or not, but you sound like the bloke behind me a few days ago. A tree just fell down blocking the road. I got out and scoped routes around. Bloke behind me got out a handy machete and started hacking at it. He wasn't getting out of a gardener's van either
oh God now, I carry one of [url= https://www.raymears.com/Bushcraft_Product/73-Bahco-Laplander-Folding-Saw/ ]these[/url] for those kind of situations
For anyone who believes they would be arrested for carrying a knife (whilst out on the bike) which forms part of a multi-tool is seriously misinformed, has no knowledge of the law or watches too much TV.
Or maybe they grew up in a deprived area where police abusing their powers was rife.A middle class middle aged person out in the country side likely wouldn't be arrested. A young kid riding about in their local council scheme, park or woods is another story.
Again, not necessarily.
As much as folk love a bit of metaphorical 'police-bashing', let's not forget that it's not 1982 any more and most people accept that cops don't go around doling out beatings on the street and locking up kids.
Recent changes in Police and Criminal Evidence Act means that all other alternative options should be considered prior to arresting someone and that any such arrest is only carried out if deemed to be a necessity based on the circumstances. Without wanting to be too technical or political, any arrest has to be proportionate, legal and necessary. Just because a kid from the local council estate is riding around the local park with a knife doesn't mean an automatic stay in the cells. Policing is not as black and white (can I say that?) as the media will have you believe.
You'd need a reason for having it, unfortunately I wouldn't trust the police to make the right call should they be presented with the opportunity.
🙄
(Scottish laws discussed here... ) Technically its not wholly upto the Police to make that choice, although there is always elements of discretion (more on that later). If it falls under the illegal category (locking blade etc) then by the letter of the law, if your in a public place, you can be arrested for it ... doesn't matter what you say, you can technically be arrested, end of. The wording is basically, illegal to have without reasonable / lawful excuse, proof of which shall lie with them ...
That proof of reasonable / lawful excuse happens at the court ... not in the street by the officer. I have had a case where I have arrested a person for possession of knife out in the street in the late evening where it was in his back pocket. It went to court, and he presented what the sheriff considered a reasonable excuse. I wasn't faulted in my action, but it shows my point that the proof which lies with him happens at the court stage, and not a decision of the Police at the time.
All that being said, there is always discretion and everything in its circumstance. If you're out and about hiking, mtbing, climbing or somesort of activity where as part of your kitbag you have stored in your bag a multitool which has a locking blade then is that really going to be an arrestable offence ... no not really. Are you using it / possessing it in a manner which is likely to endanger others? no. Equally, walking across a campsite with your dishes for washing.
That being said, strolling down the high street out on the lash getting drunk with your mates with the same locking blade multitool in your back pocket is not really acceptable, and could quite conceivably get you arrested.
I'm not sure I would trust the guidance on that Gov.UK website linked above.
Lock knivesLock knives are not classed as folding knives and are illegal to carry in public without good reason. Lock knives:
•have blades that can be locked and refolded only by pressing a button
•can include multi-tool knives - tools that also contain other devices such as a screwdriver or can opener
That definition wouldn't cover a standard Opinel, which I think most people would agree is a lock knife.
How many of us have ever had a run in with the police that ended up in a stop-and-search type situation? I've been told to get off the pavement while riding once or twice in 40 years had had a few stops in a boy-racer car back in the day. They never amounted to a search or anything more than a chat, though some were fairly 'forceful' chats.
Maybe I've been lucky, or just white, but I grew up somewhere that's rough as a badger's arse and did my fair share of stupid things. From the input of the various coppers on here it seems that they have the good sense to measure the situation accordingly. If I had acted up then I imagine I could very easily have been frisked.
How many here act like a bellend when there's police nearby?
In this scenario you would likely have been stopped for something else, perhaps innocently, perhaps not. It would be unlikely the police would be present during these activities otherwise. In my experience if presented with an opportunity to do the police would take it and add on an additional knife charge turning something fairly minor into something much more serious.All that being said, there is always discretion and everything in its circumstance. If you're out and about hiking, mtbing, climbing or somesort of activity where as part of your kitbag you have stored in your bag a multitool which has a locking blade then is that really going to be an arrestable offence ... no not really. Are you using it / possessing it in a manner which is likely to endanger others? no. Equally, walking across a campsite with your dishes for washing.
From the input of the various coppers on here it seems that they have the good sense to measure the situation accordingly. If I had acted up then I imagine I could very easily have been frisked.
A voice of reason and common sense. There's hope after all. Thank you.
How many of us have ever had a run in with the police that ended up in a stop-and-search type situation?
A handful of times. Although in all of those cases wasnt me being a bellend so much as being in the wrong place.
Overall though on the carrying a knife front. I just prefer to err on the side of caution. As per fisha comment my idea of a reasonable reason might disagree with theirs and need to go to court. Even if the court then agrees with me thats a whole load of hassle which can be avoided.
As per fisha comment my idea of a reasonable reason might disagree with theirs and need to go to court. Even if the court then agrees with me thats a whole load of hassle which can be avoided.
Believe me, it wouldn't be decided by the court. The Crown Prosecution Service would have the say on whether there was a chance of a conviction or whether the public's money should be spent on a trial. Only guilty people are sent to court nowadays. Sorry, political views creeping in there. I hear Samurai swords are the cyclists must-have accessory these days...
I hear Samurai swords are the cyclists must-have accessory these days...
only if you ride a weapon.
Not for bikes so. Biking without Samurai sword is still o.k.
😉
What's the law on a quiver of gnarpoons?
What's the law on a quiver of gnarpoons?
Positively encouraged in my opinion!
Many years ago I got pulled over for some overly enthusiastic driving. It involved a police car and a van full of coppers too. I had a locking knife with a 5inch blade on my belt. Caused quite a kerfuffel involving handcuffs. When they asked me why I had it I said I'd just come from working at the farm and pointed out that my jeans were covered in cow shit. Got my knife back and handcuffs removed and sent on my way....didnt even get a speeding ticket which seemed odd at the time.
What's the law on a quiver of gnarpoons?
Contravenes Section 1 of the Asshattery Act 1857
[i]1. A person commits an offence if he
(a) attempts to speak in such a manner that he considers to be cool but in fact to any reasonable person present
sounds like a bellend, or
(b) on hearing a nearby person speak in such a manner as to contravene sub-section (a) responds with a fist
bump or that dreadful horns hand signal.
2. An offence under Section 1 shall be punishable on indictment by a period on the Brexit thread not
exceeding fifteen years, or where tried summarily by a fine not exceeding £500 + VAT.[/i]
didnt even get a speeding ticket which seemed odd at the time.
Probably because you smelled of shit and they didn't want you in the back of their car 😀
Contravenes Section 1 of the Asshattery Act 18571. A person commits an offence if he
(a) attempts to speak in such a manner that he considers to be cool but in fact to any reasonable person present
sounds like a bellend, or(b) on hearing a nearby person speak in such a manner as to contravene sub-section (a) responds with a fist
bump or that dreadful horns hand signal.2. An offence under Section 1 shall be punishable on indictment by a period on the Brexit thread not
exceeding fifteen years, or where tried summarily by a fine not exceeding £500 + VAT.
🙂
The Brexit thread though? You go too far.
I've had a knife taken off me by the police. Was pulled over in the van coming off a building site, seemed like a routine kind of stop. I had an opinel no.7 (so under size but does lock) in the front of the van with me, it had just come out of my pocket and was covered in plaster dust.
Was a bit gutted but all he did was take it off me, not so much as a telling off. I did point out that the van was full of much more dangerous tools but I don't argue with coppers, anything for an easy life.
Was sent on my way to buy another opinel no.7 ready for work the next day
The Brexit thread though? You go too far.
ACAB 😀
Regarding stuff in cars, part of the circumstances which can be / have been taken into account relates to how readily accessible the item is to the driver or person in the car.
For example if a driver was found to have a large blade or offensive weapon (bat etc) at their feet then that would be readily accessible and so could lead to further questions and potentially action taken.
It really is down to common sense and unfortunately that lacks sometimes.
The targeted ads on this post are funny 😀
I have a Leatherman with locking blade in my pocket all the time at the shop, because I’m always needing to cut things. Once, while two BTP officers were in the shop, I absentmindedly flicked it out and lashed a parcel open, they didn’t blink an eye.
It’s all down to situation really.
From the input of the various coppers on here it seems that they have the good sense to measure the situation accordingly. If I had acted up then I imagine I could very easily have been frisked.A voice of reason and common sense. There's hope after all. Thank you.
It's a rare day that I'm accused of being sensible.