[Closed] Are e bikes going to dominate the market and the future of mountain biking?

Yes/No/Maybe.
Biscuits anyone?

Will we reach the point where e bikes are the norm and normal bikes are in the minority?

Not in our lifetimes.

Groundhog day? Nah!

Genuine question. Here in the UK, we are clearly lagging behind our european cousins. Are we really so different from them though? I suspect probably not as from speaking to a few of my local shops, e bike sales are rising and normal bike sales falling.

Is it just a fad? I'm not convinced it is. I reckon they are here to stay. The only difference appears to be that we have been slower to accept them.

Bike parks and trail centres.

I think they make most sense there.

Was at Llandegka last week and there were a few out. It means that less fit folk can smash round a loop without dying in a heap, maximizing the fun descending bits. No navigation across scary mountains, and a cafe at the end.

A bit like fishing went a few years ago. It's now all self contained featureless carp lakes stuffed with fish that you cant fail to catch.

I still like puffing and grunting up a big climb!!

If they help the fat, unfit and infirm to enjoy the outdoors, I'm all in favour.

Not sure a mountain resort is fully representative of 'Europe'. I can absolutely see an appeal for that type of terrain and why you might see a lot in that particular location.

Also - minority of what? If you mean all bike types sold at all price points, then I doubt ebikes (or even a half decent MTB) will be in the mix. If you mean proportion of high-end MTB's, then I think they'll factor more highly.

ebikes aren't just going to transform mountain biking, they will transform transportation in general. lots of focus on self-driving cars and scooters, but ebikes will be the first major shift to electric power in terms of mass transportation.

Let's hope so handybar

It seems that hire places are stocking more and more of them which might explain why you see soo many of them in the alps and at trail centres.

Ok. So a bit of digging reveals that e bike sales to adults in the Netherlands now exceeds normal bikes (Source: Forbes 2019, Carlton Reid). Genuinely gobsmacked by that.

Just for unfit and out of shape folk? Apparently not and not just limited to my non representative sample of Chamonix.

I suspect that handybar may have hit the nail on the head.

My next big bike purchase will most likely be an e-bike.

Run for fitness, ride for fun.

Groundhog day? Nah!

[url= https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/have-we-reached-a-tipping-point-with-regard-to-e-bikes/ ] Yes it ****ing is.[/url]

EBikes are the future of Ebikes.

Ebikes make sense where the climbs are huge a the descents a lot of fun so you want to go as many as you can in a day.

In the UK I’m not sure many folk will take up ebike commuting in the in favour of driving, unless driving is banned. Though I do think many cycle commuters will adopt ebikes.

edit: that said, people who cycle for fun at the weekend may be drawn to ebikes for their journey to work in favour of their cars.

A lot of folk I know live a long way from where they work, they work long hours and the weather is pretty grim.

If I think about my own shifting perspectives, then Yes, I think they will become pretty dominant. I started off being a 'mocker', then to accepting that, for some people, they have a role, to now, partly wanting to own one. That's despite me not being at all a 'gravity junkie', only living for the downs, and very much enjoying and appreciating the technical and physical challenge of climbing and riding just on my own strength, skill and fitness.

I've recently returned from a weekend in the Lakes which me and a few mates do anually, and we come together from all over the country. I've always been one of the 2 or 3 fittest when it comes to riding/climbing (and one of the last 2 or 3 slowest down again), so over the course of a big day ride out in the mountains, it all evens out. This year, three of the group had e-bikes; I thought they'd be really disadvantaged on the long hike-a-bike sections. Firstly I was bowled over by what could actually be ridden up on an ebike, way after the rest of us were off and walking. Then, 90% of the sections we were all walking / hike-a-biking, the 'walk assist' function got their bikes up sections with ease, and were still functional after the rest of us were shouldering our bikes. The only times they struggled was lifting the bikes over gates/walls or the very few sections they had to shoulder their bikes. I was pretty impressed at how capable they were in that kind of environment, away from the bike parks, local downhills and trail centres. So, yeah, think they will become the dominant type of MTB over the next few years, especially as the batteries/motors become lighter, more efficient, run time increases and costs come down.

I'm still not actively planning how to get one (can't afford it) but can see this changing over the coming years ...

But to answer the question, I believe that e bikes will become dominant in the leisure bike market.

Yes. The number one Christmas gift in Sweden last year was an electric bike. The bike shop I went into there was 60 percent ebike, and their utility bikes are awesome.

They equalize everyone and make it much more social rather than pure exercise. Those who want to push themselves all the time can continue.

If I lived in the alps,.Wales or Scotland id get one, here in bucks not so worth it, but where the trails hills are big enough

That new kona remote 160 looks mint

These last few weeks I’ve mostly been on my gnarly hardtail (for both commuting and MTBing), but for the preceding 9 months I’ve ridden my e-full-sus for everything.

As I was riding home yesterday I realised that I don’t pedal any harder or get any more out of breath on the normal bike, it just takes longer to get home. If anything I work a bit harder on the e-bike because journeys and climbs take less time and it just has this urgent feeling (when on turbo mode).

I also noticed the group ride was quite a bit easier on the hardtail because I turn the power off on the Levo unless I’m knackered and need a break or I’m having a moment of full turbo silliness.

Ebike downsides - they’re not cheap, they’re heavy (I like that in a full-sus but I’m not small and am fairly strong), I’m not sure how that weight would behave in a hardtail off-road (not well is my suspicion), they’re more complex.

I’ve yet to take the Levo to a trail centre or a bike park, it’s all been messing about on cheeky singletrack, unofficial DH stuff, XC rides and commuting (on and off-road). It’s bloody brilliant, especially as a time poor business owner and father of two (soon to be three) smalls.

I think they will become more and more popular. They’re so much fun. I do feel puzzled when friends spend as much money on a less fun unpowered bike...

I don't think they will but I do think they'll join the mainstream...26 is still here but small, 27.5 is here and 29 is flavour of the marketing team's year but these will all remain and people will add/change what they like.
We lag behind our European cousins more out of stubborn laziness than anything else.

Ebike sales in the Netherlands are through the roof  but they are almost exclusively being sold to 'non cyclists' you will struggle to find an emtb or eroadbike.  It's all about transport and weekend pootlers using the amazing infrastructure. They are currently building ehighways exclusively for ebike commuting.

Same for other countries like Denmark.

Emtbs and trailcentres will always be a small part of the industry compared to this.

I’ve yet to take the Levo to a trail centre or a bike park

Used mine all summer in Leogang after my lad stole the shock off my Tues to put on his. Maybe it was the 2.8 tyres being kinder to my arthritic shoulder but I preferred the ebike to my DH bike. Hit all the same stuff.

Ebike sales are on the rise and normal bike sales are declining but I would say the two are not related.

Bike sales went up hugely in 2012 with the olympics in the summer and have been dropping back to their regular levels since. Ebike sales have been increasing over the last few years. There will be a percentage of people who bought an Ebike over a regular bike but only a small one.

In my experience working in the industry anyway.

I am pretty sure ebikes will outstrip traditional sales in the UK and not that far away either.

Why? Because many will chose what they perceive as an easier, lazier and more expensive route to commute or think they are riding a bike (like a traditional bike) for fitness etc.

As a few have said I can completely get an ebike as a transport solution for commute but I'm with Scotroutes on the audience in my own biased perception but I still think the first two points above and a bucket of marketing cash will kill of the traditional market.

I think the bikes without e assist will be the equivalent of singlespeeding is now, niche and weird and if I had to guess it could be in as little as 3 to 5 years :/

I am very happy to be weirdo pedalling without e assist on that basis for a while but as as soon as I can't pedal then I may think differently, right now, not a chance.

James

Depends on the market you're looking at.
The market that stw readers/ users are in: no. We're too niche, hairshirt/ big beard types who enjoy the trail more because we've had to ride uphill for an hour to get to it.

The mass market: perhaps. If they could hit the £500 mark, then they could edge out the 40lb hunks of welded metal that are laughingly sold as mountain bikes that make up the volume end of the market

Only last week I may have ridiculed you over your presumption, but on Sunday I pulled out of my road (heading up to the Dales), 2 blokes on e-bikes rolled past probably starting the Bingley Bash as it starts near my house. We did an easy mtb ride in the Dales, every bike doing a ride in the opposite direction was couples on e-bikes and there were quite a few. Great to see people out on bikes doing mtb, it was all good. We didn't cross paths with anyone else on standard bikes that day, it was all pretty uneventful..

I'm convinced all DH type bikes will be eBikes soon.

With improvements in suspension etc, trails are going to have to get steeper and faster to provide a challenge, and an eBike is a way to avoid having to get an uplift or a long uphill push.

For XC type stuff I hope not. 🙂

After grinding up a 10km climb last weekend on my gravel bike only to be overtaken by three pensioners , one of which was wearing sandals has convinced me that e-bikes, for a majority of the population are indeed the future.
But seriously the way that battery tech is improving and the motors getting smaller and lighter it will very soon get to a point where e-bikes will be indistinguishable from their non powered counterparts...

The entry levo is £4k even the trek commuter I looked at was £2k. My car was only £6k iirc, I can't afford £4K on a hobby as there is no frame only option and until locks improve I'll not spend £2k on a commuter.

Do see the majority of leisure cyclist in them though, then they'll go home to watch "freaks" ride the tour or a WC fort William

I was at Afan last weekend, I'd say half the bikes there were ebikes, at least on y Wal. Surely that's the tipping point reached or is that not enough?

There’s a new Rutland Cycles store opened near me, when I popped in the other week it was quite remarkable that every bike on display was an ebike of some sort. Surely reflective of customer demand.

I’m waiting delivery of one myself. Purchased with the intention of making my 20km (each way) commute an easier and more frequent task.

I don't have a prognostication and I'm not in the UK. But the fact that this is even being talked about as a possibility makes me realise quite how... weird my approach to the point of recreational mountain biking apparently is.

Chamonix is a fairly restricted sample. Across the rest of France/Europe the proportion is much, much lower. With Alpine winch, pedal, grovel, push, plummet type trails they make more sense. Where climbs are less extended, and descents are les MotoX, less so perhaps. I suspect there were a lot more DH type bikes around too, so riders already set on pedalling less? There's no doubt they'll take off here. Having ridden one a fair bit as you have Sanny, what's descending on them like. Only used one once and it spoiled the descent for me.

My local bike shop had an ebike weekend, they clearly think it is the future of the industry. I think it is all good, it will bring more people into cycling especially older people, get cars off roads, I'm hoping once my knee problems are resolved I will get back on my local trails on my pedal power bike, but if the worse comes to the worse I would get an e-bike to reignite my love affair with the trails.
But this would be a sad affair personally because I'm at heart a rider who likes all aspects of riding including climbing - I love climbing short technical sections it gives me as big a buzz as descending, having to control the bike whilst pushed to your physical limit. It wouldn't be the same for me if that was taken away.
However, if my first ever bike was an ebike - which is what will happen for alot of youngsters in the future - I'm not sure I would ever use a pedal bike, it would just seem odd in the same way someone who learns in an automatic car wouldn't change to a manual.
I really do think it is a massive game changer in terms of mass transportation (self driving cars will revolutionise longer distance travel; scooters I'm not too sure about) and the governments/councils have to look at building the cycling infrastructure as they are already doing as mentioned above in places like the netherlands.

Yes.
Hopefully they get cheaper.

“But this would be a sad affair personally because I’m at heart a rider who likes all aspects of riding including climbing – I love climbing short technical sections it gives me as big a buzz as descending, having to control the bike whilst pushed to your physical limit.”

This might sound strange but you can still get that on a ebike - both by using no assistance (so it’s like climbing on a normal bike with a weight penalty) or by using some or lots of electric power so you can climb up things that are impossible on normal bikes.

I am absolutely pro ebike for many reasons, most mentioned above. I'd actually like one to replace car duties actually.

For mountain biking it's just not for me. At this time in my life, perhaps never. I have zero problems with other people loving them for mtb riding though.

It's hard for me to rationalise to be honest. It's not about "cheating" or whatever. It's just an ingrained, inherent concept in my noggin that all I want to get me around the hills here, off-road anyway, is the bike and my legs. Walking if necessary, of I can't pedal up it.

I'm not an adrenalin type rider. I'm just not good enough and I've got some of my best memories over the years from the actual "struggle" of the ride on many occasions. I'm an odd bloke I suppose.lol For me I do feel this need to pay, in full (in my own mind!!), for the privilege of getting to the places I love. By love, the countryside basically. By the same odd rationality I've never ever wanted to ride at a trail centre, it's just not for me.

Like I said,I find it hard to rationalise but if there ever comes a day when you have *no choice* but to buy an e mtb I would feel pretty upset by that to be honest. It would have lost it's soul for me.

I'll make one prediction though. I suspect there will be a movement to convert obsolete/ too costly to repair e mtbs back to lighter conventional bikes by removing all the ebike gubbings. Just like it's a thing to fit kits to convert normal bikes to ebike.

Not meaning to be contentious, just my take on the matter. It's all good.

I love climbing short technical sections it gives me as big a buzz as descending, having to control the bike whilst pushed to your physical limit. It wouldn’t be the same for me if that was taken away.

But e bikes allow even more of that - I do way more techy climbs on my e bike than is possible on a non e bike (and at my physical limit). You can ride stuff where others are walking (or taking the fireroad/tarmac option). Ok - you do have to pick the right terrain to do so. I live in the French Alps, so I'm not sure if the options would be the same in less mountainous areas of the UK. But here there are so many more technical rides that are now possible and overall my rides are more of a technical challenge on an e bike than a non e-bike.

when (HAHAHAAHAAHAHAA !!! ) all the safe cycling infra is built in Manchester I'll probably switch to an ebike and ride in my work clothes. I'll stick with a passive bike for fun and fitness

Yes.

Riding french basque hills I'd say tipping point is passed, apart from for folks wanting a full on roadie workout. Probably more than half the casual/leisure bikes were ebikes (on sale for about 600 euros in decathlon), didn't actually see that many mtbs but about half those I did see were ebikes.

Where I live there are about 12 or so good descents off the moor and a reasonable evening ride for me would take in three or four tops. On an ebike you could do all of them or a few laps of your faves, which bothers me as they won't take all that much traffic. Whatever though, it's coming...

had a ebike when I was ill.
got shut as soon as I was well.
I will stick with my own engine power as long as able.

I like to suffer.

and I think there are lots the same.

so no,

poopscoop-I m loving the idea of re-purposed eBikes once they are financially at end of life -they could have lots of built in storage in the downtube (for bottles of whiskey etc ) and around the crank area if a motor could be stripped out and a storage box/new bottom bracket holder could be installed. A travelling light Bivvy bike maybe.

Interesting topic.

I don't know why but I get that pit of my stomach feeling when reading/discussing e-bikes taking over. I'm not getting any younger so I should be happy that they're an option. I can afford a decent one so it can't be that.

I do like the challenge of going up hills using my own steam. On the descents I'm not that interested in speed I just love popping off every little lip, the jumps and bunny hopping obstacles. Throw it some interesting corners and I'm in heaven.

I'm 47 and 5ft 6 so my dream bike would be a short(ish), low and slack with 26" / 27.5 wheels so I can throw it around. I have trouble throwing non e-bikes about these days so a 29er LLS e-bike weighing twice the weight of the above just fills me with dread, I know it would be fast but I fear that I would just be handing on.....

I'll have to suck it up and try one I suppose.

As an ebike owner I'm always amused (bemused) by the comments about ebikes and the perceived lack of effort. You'd think your average ebike rider was sat sipping tea from fine bone china whilst pedalling without a single bead of sweat appearing. I'm still exhausted on my Levo, I'm just exhausted after a 32km ride instead of the 18 I would have been able to do before. A ride where, after years of trying to keep up but infact being left behind because I wasn't fast enough, I have been able to match my fellow riders without getting myself to the point of being so tired I crashed!

Riding an ebike doesn't mean someone isn't pushing or riding as hard as they can. In my case, I'm pushing harder and harder because I have the confidence. I'm climbing more, riding harder and attacking stuff I couldn't ride before. I'm also fitter and riding my hardtail better on the occasions I do ride it.

You don't need a reason to buy one other then you want one.

As for the OP; very probably, yes. I held off until I could afford one which I expect is the situation of most people. As people upgrade their ebikes and sell their old ones more will be avail second hand to people who can't afford one new. I really dont understand why there might be an issue with ebikes getting more popular - they are still just bikes and people will still want to talk about them.

My Levo has been a revelation to me, I can only hope that other people get the opportunity too if it's something they want to do.

I've considered selling my car and getting an e-cargo bike.

I haven't done so yet, but I've considered it 🙂

For me, e-MTBs aren't really what I'm after from an MTB. It doesn't bother or surprise me that they're popular in some areas, and I might hire one one day if I'm in an area like that.

I’d normally avoid these threads but since it is you Sanny! (Hope you and the family are good!) Ebikes will be a big part of the future but not everything. People / weirdos like you and me will always want to suffer more and pedal and carry. They are great but so are normal bikes. Just like full sus didn’t kill the hard tail. Ok, disc brakes killed v’s but that’s ‘coz they were shit. I have a couple of very nice ebikes in my garage but use my normal bikes much, much more.

Living on the Derbyshire Peak District I have seen the rapid growth of eMTB in the past year. I resisted it for ages citing they are for the lazy, old or unfit that's before I borrowed one for the day and realised what a shift in the concept of mountainbiking it gives you. You travel further, higher and faster and burn the same amount of calories in the same time. Before I got my eMTB there was only one eMTB rider around the Ladybour routes now its split 80/20 but still in favour of the analogue MTB, I expect to see that levelling off at some point when the second hand market opens up more and makes initial ownership cost more accessible and the mindsets change.

I’ve considered selling my car and getting an e-cargo bike.

I haven’t done so yet, but I’ve considered it 🙂

I keep thinking about getting a Tern GSD for commuting and replacing a few car journeys. Just wish it was a bit cheaper 🙂

I keep thinking about getting a Tern GSD for commuting and replacing a few car journeys. Just wish it was a bit cheaper 🙂

I think I'd have to sell the car. 2 car household at the moment, so theoretically there's scope!

In response to your original question Sanny, I’d say yes. Chatting to the guys in LBS, they are selling more ebikes than acoustic, and they are one of the biggest shops around (Sprockets in Kilmarnock). The guys in the shop, who are young, fit and very good riders are mostly all on ebikes and their riding mates are going the same way. Why ? More fun on the way up, more riding in a set time period, more sociable as they can all pedal up and along at similar pace.

I have just ordered an Orbea Wild FS from them, having ridden a few different test bikes. Full carbon, 29er, 150mm travel both ends. Yes, some health issues were the final trigger for me, but the test rides were a revelation, especially a few hours on a Focus Jam2 Plus on the tecky trails above Carrbridge (thanks Nash and the team at Ride Cairngorm). For me, and I suspect many others who may not know it yet, they are just more fun. The stuff about it not being a workout is bollocks, ok you can avoid max HR spikes (why I am finally getting one) but you will still sit well in Zone 3/sweetspot for a few hours and burn a heap of calories. Just don’t choose a route with too many locked gates and fences....

“Just don’t choose a route with too many locked gates and fences….”

They’re not THAT heavy! And getting strong is good for you, especially as you’re getting older! 😉

I'm off to Glentress at the weekend and part of the hotel deal is the use of a Levo for a day. I'm really not that arsed TBH but my brother isn't as fit (I'm not that fit) so he's quite keen. I ride to keep fit, and I enjoy climbing as much as descending. I like to go out and come back feeling like I've worked hard, but also that I've improved as a rider slightly. Y'know, I picked a better line on that techy climb, or I found my flow on a particular descent. Also that I was faster than my last attempt. But I want to know that it's me doing it all. I'm slightly apprehensive of trying the Levo in case my inner couch potato comes out and I start to want one. I've nothing against those who ride ebikes and the arguments for them definitely make sense, it's just not for me. Or maybe it is. I guess I'll find out! Either way I suspect it'll take off massively in the next few years as tech filters down, ebikes get lighter and the entry point to a quality ebike gets cheaper.

I’m sure we had threads a few years ago where shops claimed to be selling more fat bikes than skinny ones and look at them now. Ebikes have just hit the mainstream and there is a “new” market of people who don’t ride a bike but think they would if it were just a bit easier. I’ll bet the vast majority of these bikes don’t get used more than a few times and don’t get replaced. The reliable long term market is people that actually like cycling. Some will pay the extra for “more fun” but personally I doubt they will ever dominate.

I have a set number of hours to ride. With an Ebikes I could go further, but that just means I have to find longer routes.

If I lived in Chamonix I would certainly buy an e-bike. Probably would if I was riding at BPW every day too. But as my local trails are Woburn and Cannock Chase I much prefer to pedal myself around that kind of undulating singletrack. If you take away the challenge of all the pedalling parts then there isn't much left! My daughter has an e-bike though, which is great for allowing us to ride together. It acts like an handicap system.

“Why spend all your time riding up for just one descent when you can get up the same trails considerably quicker and cram in more descending time?”

As climbing is fun? Give me a good, techy climb, or even a long lung buster and I'll take that over a descent any day. Though i do accept that when I was 3 stone overweight I may not have agreed with that sentiment.

To answer the OP, I think in the future it'll definitely be a much bigger market share, though the cost is prohibitive for most at the moment.

I completely agree, hunting down and conquering steep techy climbs is one of the biggest buzzes on my e-bike; the sort of climbs 99% of riders would have to hike up. This really opens up your options ride more trails/loops etc.

Completely up to the individual and what type of bike or bikes they want to ride.
I think they will grow as people are time tight and it allows you to ride more and more often.

Having a slipped disc my ebike gives me a way to continue riding in some form rather than sitting at home getting unfit.

ton

Member

I will stick with my own engine power as long as able.

I like to suffer.

and I think there are lots the same.

so no,

Pretty much how I feel - as I’m an old bastard I’m sure that no-one would criticise me for riding an e-bike but I like the satisfaction of doing stuff under my own steam and that sometimes means carrying....
At 67 I’m certainly not going to start carrying 40+ lb bikes around - I couldn’t even if I wanted to, tbh, because I’m not the biggest or the strongest. A 301 is about as much as I can manage for any distance and that’s a tad over 30lbs.

I completely agree, hunting down and conquering steep techy climbs is one of the biggest buzzes on my e-bike; the sort of climbs 99% of riders would have to hike up. This really opens up your options ride more trails/loops etc.

The other side of this is that I have a few climbs close to me that are tough but I suspect would be easy(er) on an eBike. An eBike might get me up there quicker but it takes away some of the challenge. In a strange way, it's the parallel to the reason that gravel bikes are in vogue, that MTB's are so capable we now want less capable bikes to make local, trails interesting.