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I'm looking for my first road bike and in the model I have listed below you can have discs in the cheapest and then discs at £4500 model. The LBS said they will eventually end up on all models.
Not so sure myself. Money is no object up to £2500 but struggling to pick the right bike. http://www.specializedconceptstore.co.uk/roubaix-sl4-disc/28011/14roubaix
yes/no/maybe
depends what you are doing, if you want to hedge your bets got something with a rear disc mount.
As with all these things what do you plan to do with your new bike?
Definitely, but too early. Think I'll wait a couple of years.
Commute and Sunday morning 6am blast before the old coffin dogers come out in there bumper cars 🙂
Didn't you say that a couple of years ago too LardLover?
They've been hinted at a few times over the years, tried but never really taken off. Maybe one day but certainly not soon and does it matted of you buy one now with or without anyway?
If you think back to the back to the phasing in of discs on mountainbikes. Some early systems were very heavy and not particularly reliable and it took a bit of evolution to improve matters. Road bikes with STI type combined brake/ gear levers and weight weeny wheels will need similar evolution if both those aspects are to improve to satisfy market tastes. Brake fluid reservoirs inside hoods and thin walled disc only rims are just emerging now. I won't be an early adopter.
Disc rims aren't much lighter.
I wonder if disc brakes will get light enough for zzsummer use road bikes.
in a word yes*.
[url= http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/shimano-launch-hydraulic-road-brakes-11-speed-groupsets-119500 ]this is why[/url]
Up till now no one has actually made a disc brake lever worth using for most people. That Shimano are releasing a mechanical lever changes everything.
Granted £470 isn't cheap, but that is list price and it will be available cheaper elsewhere, and it is the brakes and levers.
*Whether anyone needs discs is a meh issue, manufacturers will supply them, buyers will buy them, 650b is all you need to know.
I hope so, I do wonder if they're going to keep the 135mm back end that we're currently seeing though. Doubtful if for no other reason than the industry loves a new standard. Interested to see what the UCI tech dude comes up with ref service for big races, at the minute it's a wait and see but I reckon the industry will be pushing it in a 650b stylee next year.
My rule of thumb is wait til Shimano have released a new tech on 105/LX so the price is down and there's been 2/3 years of real world testing.
Who mentioned 650b?
Disc rims aren't much lighter.
There are other advantages with disc rims, though. The rim can be built purely for strength as a wheel, not as a braking surface. Add in the fact that a disc wheel can be a bit out of true and still work far better than an equivalent caliper wheel, as well as the improvement in braking and pad duration and I would say that discs really are the future.
As before, though it's odd not to be seeing mid range bikes coming 'disc ready' as happened in the early days of discs on MTB. Haven't seen any caliper equipped bikes with future proof disc mounts.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the UCI introduce minimum weights for bikes?
If this is the case, would it not be feasible that the bikes can dip below this minimum weight & make up the difference with disc brakes to make it weight legal again?
These kinds of problems are always annoying because you are spending a lot of lot money and you want to your bike to be future proof. However, in my experience I have found that in spite of my best intentions I have always been glad of an excuse to buy a new bike!!
If this is the case, would it not be feasible that the bikes can dip below this minimum weight & make up the difference with disc brakes to make it weight legal again?
That's pretty irrelevant as discs aren't UCI legal in road races.
Yes, even Bontrager thinks they are http://road.cc/content/news/114388-road-discs-are-future-says-bontrager
mrmo - Member
*Whether anyone needs discs is a meh issue, manufacturers will supply them, buyers will buy them,
It's not the same as MTB though - pro peleton acceptance of new technology is required, its probably more important than marketing.
CaptainFlashheart - Member
Disc rims aren't much lighter.
There are other advantages with disc rims, though. The rim can be built purely for strength as a wheel, not as a braking surface
If that were the case then they could and would be made lighter.
As before, though it's odd not to be seeing mid range bikes coming 'disc ready' as happened in the early days of discs on MTB
Not odd at all - they are just too far away, if they will actually dominate.
Probably in a year or two when road bike sales have slowed... oh look..
We've invented some awesome balls disc brakes to make your current bike obsolete. Buy the new one and throw your old one in the skip.
Discs are one bit of modern bike tech I support wholeheartedly.
Bring it on, the sooner and cheaper the better.
Drac - ModeratorDidn't you say that a couple of years ago too LardLover?
😆
Of course they are thr future. Only stuffy, stuck in thepast gtumbling old men who love club politics cling to 'tradition'.
Soon we'll have decent stopping power on road bikes long after discs came to off road.
How many injuries and deaths would be averted if it came sooner? Maybe indirectly but a contributing factor I bet. I had personal experience of brake block/rim failure at 16. I ended up over shooting a giveway.
I'm sure they'll creep in eventually, but personally they look awful. A decent set of calipers with good swiss pads do the job and easily serviceable. I just cant see how a set of discs are going to kill the speed (and when I say this I mean stop you on tarmac to tyre contact) when hooning down a hill at 45mph+ on 23mm tyres!
Funny how people seem to have managed discs off road for years with a much less grippy surface.
Bit of a strange idea, but perhaps, just perhaps, human beings can learn and adapt?
Personally no because I live in a dry, flat area of the country. If I lived somewhere hilly and wet then yes. The real benefits will come when wheels can be designed completely without consideration of rim brakes.
Discs pose some difficulties for pros : Extra weight, poor aerodynamics, spinning blades during crashes, neutral mechanical support, extra spokes, sharp braking in pelotons... I've just replaced my Ti disc road bike with a Tarmac SL4 and Hed Jets and am much happier.
Cant see the point on a road bike, no need. Lack of brakes have never slowed me down. In the wet lack of grip is the problem its easy enough to drag the brakes a little to dry the rims. Anyone who thinks road brakes are not powerful enough is either doing it wrong or have poorly set up brakes.
More powerful brakes are always better, it's a joke to say otherwise.
However this benefit is not significant enough to outweigh the current disadvantages (for most) on lightweight/race road bikes.
Disc brakes make sense for a commute work horse or extended rough terrain but for a sports fitness road bike I don't see the benefit.
Imagine Paris Roubaix with everyone on discs. Hundreds of team mechanics fiddling with pad alignment at the roadside as the peloton disappears into a dust cloud.
I haven't really considered them, but would you have to use heavier gauge spokes to cope with the torsion under heavy braking?
bob_summers - Member
I haven't really considered them, but would you have to use heavier gauge spokes to cope with the torsion under heavy braking?
No, no need.
I'll take your word for it then 😉
Seriously though, my front wheel (400g) uses cxray spokes, all 20 of them. I can't see how I could add a disc hub and not beef up the spokage.
rumbledethumps - Member
I'm sure they'll creep in eventually, but personally they look awful. A decent set of calipers with good swiss pads do the job and easily serviceable.
Well that pretty much sums up my view too.
400gm front wheel? I guess that might need to be beefier.
I use revolutions on my mtb front wheel. 9 years old and no issues, though there are 32 of them.
I'd consider discs on my winter bike but I can lock up my wheels with two fingers on the summer bike so I don't see any point in adding extra faff or complication to my summer bike.
cynic-al, disc brakes will happen. As soon as Shimano, Sram and Campagnolo release brakes, give it a year for the UCI to do there "tests" and work out how to handle neutral service they will be rolled out, does also matter what the plan is with the minimum weight though. Abolish it bikes can get a lot lighter, keep it and you can have discs within the current limit.
This isn't about what is better or what is needed, this is about money, planned obsolesce, the next greatest thing. As you say they don't bring many advantages to pro level racing, as long as they don't bring disadvantages, they will appear.
I can see advantages to discs, but they aren't a huge game changer for me, but that isn't relevant. They will add about a pound to the weight of bikes which for 99% of users is sod all. They will allow wheel manufacturers a few more options, but it won't change much, a 50mm deep rim is still 50mm deep with or without a brake track.
I already run (hydro) discs on all my bikes (road and mtb).
Net gain in weight for the carbon roadie when going to discs was about 550g, which is acceptable to me. I'd never go back to rim brakes. It's not even close.
I see your point mrmo, I guess manufacturers can force peleton acceptance. It's not like the old days where genuine game-cahngers like clipless pedals took a while to be acepted.
And I'd say 1lb on your bike is a huge amount to most 15 stone weekend warriors 😛
The big disadvantage in pro tour is surely wheel changes. It'd be a brave team to go over to discs with everyone else on calipers. The peloton has largely accepted electronic shifting too, but riders like Cancellara refuse to use it.
Maybe I'm overestimating how much more time it takes to change, but when you see the fuss kicked up about retention tabs on the forks (and ALL teams had to go with those, so same disadvantage for everyone)...
They are the future.
But that gives you the opportunity to pick up a really nice 'obsolete' rim braked road bike super-cheap in the sales this year or (probably) next.
NO THEY'RE NOT THEY ARE UGLY AND ONLY INTRODUCED TO MAKE RICH FRED'S BUY NEW BIKES FOR THEIR NEXT SPORTIVE.
How they get around the wheel change problem will be interesting to see, guess it'll just be a bike change now as for most other mechanicals.
It is the future as it's what the big manufacturers want. For example, who's lobbying the UCI? Not the riders.
Personally not bothered about it as I don't feel the need, but then my braking demands are pretty low on the road bikes.
Ya need to get out on yer bike instead of pontarseificating whether disc should / should not be on roadies, now chillax cos I've just come in from 67ks of Doqns bouncing and getting ready for Amstel Gold.
Keep an eye out for discs on road bikes 😉
no need. Lack of brakes have never slowed me down.
Well, it wouldn't, would it..... If you had no brakes you wouldn't slow down! 🙂
Can you imagine a fast wheel change in a race when the rider leans on the brake lever with the wheel out and they can't get the replacement wheel in without a screwdriver?
Aero bikes are the future of road bikes. But when there is no weigh or aero disadvantage and full-scale adoption of carbon rims, then they may take off.
Maybe the answer (for pro teams) is thru axles.
What's the pad life like? In poor conditions you can get through a pair of (MTB) front pads in one ride.
Not saying this doesn't happen with rim brakes. I've done a pair of road pads in one day (albeit 4 Pyreneen cols).
Pro-adoption of disc brakes might force manufacturers to find a way of making wheel changes less faffy.
15stone weekend warriors?
You mean men not blokes who didnt grow properly.
Ok I take it back Hora, more braking power may be needed if you are a fat knacker. I have never felt the need as lack of grip in wet conditions is what holds me back. In the dry I have never needed more braking power.
I'm a big fan of disk brakes on road bikes. For me, it's not about outright braking power, it's more about the vastly improved feel and control disks offer over rim brakes in both wet and dry conditions.
Like [u]reggiegasket[/u] said...
I'd never go back to rim brakes. It's not even close.
I believe the real benefit lies in rim design.
But it will need to be a good brake not to rub, plus my rim brakes are pretty good already.
The UCI have a new head of design protocol, Dimitris Kanasaris (sp?) Who is the man who built the track bikes for the British Olympic team, they are looking at a big overhaul of the technical rules so a lot could change in the next few years.
Does the market need the pros to adopt disc ?
Lost of sportife riders could not care about the pro end of the sport
Personaly I like the thought of discs on my road bike after a winter Useing a disc cx bike
Especially if you want a wider tyre
Whenever I ride in properly wet conditions, by which I mean actually raining significantly, the grip between tarmac and tyre is far greater than the grip between block and rim. My brakes (105) barely work at all in heavy rain, and never have. Given that I live in South Wales with lots of steep hills, this is a problem.
V brakes on my hybrid don't seem to have this problem though.
And wheel weight is not that much of an issue. My 29er has sub 1400 wheels so with a little time disc wheels for road bikes will get better
I read that UCI adoption isn't likely until at least after the 2016 Olympics which seems to make sense to me. I guess one day they'll be more mainstream but I think we're still a few years off.
They've been legal in cx races for a while now and still lots of pro's haven't switched so I can't see riders on the pro road teams really pushing for it. It's going to come down to how much influence the bike and component manufacturers have with the UCI.
They make sense for regular riding but for the pro's the fact they're heavier, less aero, mean slower wheel changes and possible concerns over performance on long alpine descents seems a big trade off for slightly better braking performance. With decent road callipers locking the wheel really isn't an issue so it's not as if improved braking is getting you a big gain either.
Saying that if the UCI do make them legal then money talks and the manufacturers who sponsor the teams will no doubt push riders to use them.
These kinds of problems are always annoying because you are spending a lot of lot money and you want to your bike to be future proof. However, in my experience I have found that in spite of my best intentions I have always been glad of an excuse to buy a new bike!!
It doesn't really matter really. If you want discs just get them, if you're happy with calipers then stick with them, because they both work very very well. Not quite sure why some peoples rim brakes don't work in the wet, good set up good cables and quality pads are more than good enough for coming off a wet mountain top.
Personally I like the way aero road bikes are going with hidden/built in brakes.
Clubmate not impressed with the integrated brakes on his new frame (Look 695). Not a patch on Campag dual pivot, according to him. For four and a half grand I'd not be wanting any niggles with the brakes!
LOOK 695 looks stunning, and Campagnolo dual pivots are superbe.
At the end of the day it's not about the.... 😉
There's an ex pro tour guy on our Saturday chaingang who rides a tatty team issue bike with mismatched everything, nobody (Look 695 or not) can stay with him on descents.
Not that fussed about what pros use tbh, they don't do my commute in midwinter with half-asleep drivers buzzing about. But the argument's for good brakes, rather than for discs, right? You can make rim brakes that work better than road brakes do. I had mini-vs on my previous "road" bike, which was really just a fast drop-bar hybrid, and they worked rather well. Not as well as the discs on the new one, but much closer to discs than to road brakes.
It just seems like road brakes have specialised themselves off into a weird corner where they've forgotten what their job is. I don't think a change to discs is required but a change in mindset would be good, and the hardware change will maybe lead the software change.
Whatever happened to ceramic rims? I can see that disc brakes and chipping on rocks killed them off on mountain bikes but why don't road rim, particularly carbon, come with a ceramic beaming track?
Having said that, I run 4 pot hydro discs on my road bike. I'm holding out for Shimano 11 speed mechanical shifting with hydraulic brakes before I buy my next road bike.
Disc brakes will not make rim brakes obsolete for a very long time, the addition of a post mount on the rear stay will not impact the bike for 95% of riders, there is not requirement to use it. Same with swapping for a fork with a disc mount.
If it's done properly then the only change issue is squeezing the lever when the wheel is out. Set up a proper hub standard for alignment & spacing on the rotor. I'm sure each of the support cars would have a proper pad spacer tool with them.
It does worry me about peoples mechanical skill when they think swapping a wheel with disc brakes it difficult.
My only argument against disc brakes is that I've never had a mountain bike disc brake that has reliably and consistently run drag/rub free.
Discs warp, pistons stick, callipers mysteriously refuse to stay aligned, etc. etc.
I would put up with this on a commuter, but for the weekend best bike I think I'd prefer the perfectly adequate braking I got out of my Ultegra callipers with stock pads on Shimano rims. I'm not complaining so long as there is choice on the market though.
I'm not really an expert on road riding, but I think they may well be adopted by the pros as the system of choice for days when they are racing in heavy rain.
They make all kind of other race/stage specific equipment considerations, so why not use discs in the wet? Never mind the extra power, the advantages are more consistent feel (e.g. not having such a sharp change in braking force when the water on the rim suddenly clears and then your brakes go from f-all to stopping hard) and better modulation (even more important when the grip on the ground is limited).
I'd have them on my road bike, for sure. For the above advantages and for wear+tear. Right now my rims are pretty worn and I'm trying to decide when to pay out for replacing them. Or go ride fast descents with that voice in the back of my head telling me that the wheel might explode. Plus, there are local road that I avoid in the wet because the descents are on steep twisty lanes that finish off rim brake pads in one ride. With discs, I could ride some of those more often.
Personally I like the way aero road bikes are going with hidden/built in brakes.
You might not be so keen when you've tried them 😉 The feel of the TRP V-brakes on my Propel is an, ahem, acquired taste. Coming from Ultegra dual pivot on my other road bikes, I had to relearn brake modulation. They do look fantastic and I am sure that they are saving me precious watts, but compared with the little lever to widen the pads, in line cable adjusters are not the same!
With alloy rims, I've never felt the need for disks on the road, but am not a heavy rider.