[Closed] are 'better' chains actually better ?

I just buy whatever nickel coated one is available, as I find it's easier to keep clean and less prone to gunging up.

Have a read:

https://cyclingtips.com/2019/12/the-best-bicycle-chain-durability-and-efficiency-tested/

I'm on 11sp still but never pay more than a tenner for chains. (Usually £7.99)
I stick the 1110 SRAM onto Shimano... they get messed up specially at Swinley or Rogate and I change them.

We also swap wheels about ... so that also plays a part.
I just reckon a newer cheaper chain is better than an older expensive one. Weighs a few grams more .. and preserves the rest (expensive) drivechain

The tests (linked to above) suggest the top end chains eg XTR / XX1 last longer than cheaper chains....

I had XX1 on my race MTB and thats lasted 3 years of training and racing in all conditions before getting to .75.    I've just received 105 for my road bike (its a 105 5800 setup anyway).  I would have got the Ultegra chain, but due to a Wiggle sale the 105 was literally half the price.  I don't do enough road miles or performance for 1 x Ultegra to justify 2 x 105 chains.

I got the Wipperman as above for my turbo setup as I broke 2 x KMC chains on sprints, and broke KMC lightweight chains twice in MTB races in the past.

That articles a good guidance based on my personal experience.

There's an article in the new issue of Cyclist Magazine about chain lube - dry, wet, ceramic etc and they reckon that far and away the best preservation is to use one of those incredibly messy and time-consuming wax baths that you melt in an oven and soak the (spotlessly clean and degreased) chain in.

The reckoned that most lubes, especially dry ones using a solvent carrier, just don't penetrate the plates and bushes. The actual lube content in a dry one can be as low as 10%, the rest is just solvent that evaporates.

However once the wax is on there it's like a layer of polish on a frame, it dries hard and prevents any dirt from getting in there.

You can run the "best" chain in the world but if it's badly lubed it'll be no better than anything else out there.

Same as you OP I also spotted the PC-1110 going for a tenner on Wiggle last week, and as I had a voucher spare bunged it in the basket, I'm planning to eventually run it on a 1x10 setup (yes I know it's an 11 speed chain, should still work) when I knacker the current 1x9 setup on my Gravel bike (probably summer)...

I suppose the thing is you have to decide what "better" really means to you; are you expecting improved wear rate, reduced likelihood of failure, less weight and/or improved shifting for having spent more or less money on a chain?

IME it's almost unknowable, but the more interesting chart in the testing linked above from my perspective is the "approximate cost per 10,000km" which seems to indicate that cheaper chains overall cost you less on a mileage basis... TBH price tends to be my main chain buying criteria, and I'd guess it is for most people.

I don't think I've actually had a chain fail on me in well over 15 years, despite some significant neglect in some instances. Maybe I just don't make the watts, or maybe even the cheapest chains are of a minimum standard these days? Either way I'm encouraged by the cost vs durability estimation from that linked testing...

Shifting matters of course, on that front perhaps side plate profiles help, possibly harder wearing materials so that geometry remains consistent for longer, maybe cut-outs that help greasy shite get out of the way? or maybe the cassette is a bigger factor? Again it's harder for us punters to really tell I reckon... I have various mixtures of shimano, KMC and SRAM chains and cassettes running on my geared bikes and TBH the biggest benefits I've noticed seem to come from using mid-tier SRAM cassettes, at least when they're new, but I also think shimano seem to wear better... I Honestly Dunno on the shifting front, so long as it works adequately, price is still the winning factor for me TBH.

As for lost Watts? Meh...
I'd like to be efficient, but I'm not a TTer and even if I could reclaim an extra 4w just by having a posher chain it would move me from 'pathetic' to 'marginally less pathetic' in terms of overall performance... I'll cling to my general belief that saturation with putoline is the bestest thing you can do to any chain for both wear and efficiency...

One thing I'm not doing any time soon is dipping my toe in 12 speed of any flavour and it sounds like there's some chain based shenanigans going on to keep early adopters brand loyal when they need a new chain... I'll do without the extra clicks and cost for a bit longer then I think...

There’s an article in the new issue of Cyclist Magazine about chain lube – dry, wet, ceramic etc and they reckon that far and away the best preservation is to use one of those incredibly messy and time-consuming wax baths that you melt in an oven and soak the (spotlessly clean and degreased) chain in.

The chain testing results above don't use wax, so you can get a long life out of high quality chains just using normal lube.

I agree you'll probably get longer using an immersive wax....

I always thought the cheaper SRAM chains dont get the anti corrosion stuff so will rust if left mucky after a wet ride?

I guess the continuation of this then, is....

Which chain lube...

One thing I’m not doing any time soon is dipping my toe in 12 speed of any flavour and it sounds like there’s some chain based shenanigans going on to keep early adopters brand loyal when they need a new chain… I’ll do without the extra clicks and cost for a bit longer then I think…

Very impressed with SRAM Axs eTap 12sp so far, also one of the longest lasting chains apparently....

I guess the continuation of this then, is….
Which chain lube…

Putoline (IMO).

But it does fall under the "incredibly messy and time-consuming wax baths" heading, I don't find it that bad TBH...

This being STW there is a long running thread of course.

IME it’s almost unknowable, but the more interesting chart in the testing linked above from my perspective is the “approximate cost per 10,000km” which seems to indicate that cheaper chains overall cost you less on a mileage basis… TBH price tends to be my main chain buying criteria, and I’d guess it is for most people.

Top 5 (11speed) being:
Pc1130 @ £18 ish.
105 @ £22 ish
Fsa @£30
Xx1 @£45
Ultegra @ £30

None are exactly "cheap" chains

they reckon that far and away the best preservation is to use one of those incredibly messy and time-consuming wax baths that you melt in an oven and soak the (spotlessly clean and degreased) chain in.

I can say with all honesty that it is really not very messy or time consuming. I'm not sponsored by them or anything, but really it's not a big deal.

Very impressed with SRAM Axs eTap 12sp so far, also one of the longest lasting chains apparently….

Maybe, but it costs a fair bit to find out, and once you're running it SRAM AXS 'flat-top' chains they have to be replaced like for like don't they, committing you to ongoing, higher spending just on chains.
That just makes my hair shirt feel itchier, of course if I had the disposable income maybe I would.

Maybe, but it costs a fair bit to find out, and once you’re running it SRAM AXS ‘flat-top’ chains they have to be replaced like for like don’t they, committing you to ongoing, higher spending just on chains.

£25 ish for a chain IIRC, which for a high end electronic groupset seems pretty good value to me.

I use SRAM PC 1051 on gravel/turbo bike.

The MTB still has the original 12 speed chain that came on it. I would prob replace when it is time with the cheapest SRAM 12 speed I could find. I prefer SRAM as they come with the quick links rather than the pin (although Shimano might come with a quick link now - haven't brought one for years!)

But it does fall under the “incredibly messy and time-consuming wax baths” heading, I don’t find it that bad TBH…
This being STW there is a long running thread of course.

I use normal wax on both bikes and don't have a problem. Redo the turbo chain once per training block (about 6 weeks). MTB has got less use this year so has been less of an issue but did a 4 hour muddy ride in Cannock two weeks ago. Got back hosed it down and put it in the shed and it is fine. I think some of the stuff on that thread is over complicated...wouldn't be STW if it wasn't to be fair! As it is just normal wax it isn't difficult just use a tin tray on the hob and re-melt it until it is too dirty and then put a new batch in.

I’ve always gone for a better chain without going super high-end, just find they last longer and shift nicer. I used a GX Eagle chain on the Soul and it wasn’t great. It was ok, shifted fine and lasted ok but then it just started to crack in a number of places. Replaced with X01 and it’s far better. Lasted loads better and shifts feel better too. I do like the XX1 Eagle chains though, purely because they’re available in black! I’ve put one on the Spur but can’t justify the extra for the Soul.

When spending money on thing like chains and cassettes etc i try to think if it will make me faster or better at what I like doing. Granted weight savings etc are great for xc and whatever, but for what I like, it makes no difference.

I if had all the money in the world, no doubt I’d get the best chain etc, as yes they are lighter and so apparently last longer...  but I don’t, so I spend my money on good suspension, servicing, tyres, bike holidays and so on.

Priorities I guess. Totally cool if people want to do the opposite, or all of it mind!

None are exactly “cheap” chains

Heres the graph:

PC-1130 and 105 aren't bottom of the range, but they're about the cheapest he tested, and they're far from pricey (IMO).

It looks like it'll cost you ~80% more to cover the same distance using DuraAce or Red 22 chains, ~110% more using (~£50 a go) Campag Record... The point being, you pays your money, you don't necessarily get better wear rates...

edit:

£25 ish for a chain IIRC, which for a high end electronic groupset seems pretty good value to me.

I stand corrected, I thought they were much pricier...

I stand corrected, I thought they were much pricier…

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/sram-force-axs-12-speed-chain

£26.40 with my Platinum discount...

There is an element of a longer lasting chain will make the new horribly expensive 12 speed cassettes also last longer.

I seem to remember that the cost/mile in the above study didnt consider that?

Is it worth spending the extra £20 on a posh chain to get more life out of the £200 cassette?
does it make any actual difference....
Beyond me!

I think its been dated before the problem with Wax / Solvent lubes is that were are predetermined to "coat" the chain and not "soak" the chain because it feels like we are using a lot.

I use Squirt, and I read somewhere that most people run around the rollers unaware it needs to be of enough volume to run through the whole chain system to coat the internals of the rollers and plates etc.

Is it worth spending the extra £20 on a posh chain to get more life out of the £200 cassette?

Yes, the 12sp cassettes aren't cheap!

Not looking forward to needing a new one, although hopefully not for a while.

1000km of wet road miles on my Force groupset and the chain shows no sign of wear at all - can't even get the Parktools thing into it. Although it has worn a bit as it's gone quiet now, first few 100km it was really noisy.

Interesting and suprising results. I always use mid range sram ones but the only advantage I thought I was getting was the nickle plating so no rust on the outside

they reckon that far and away the best preservation is to use one of those incredibly messy and time-consuming wax baths that you melt in an oven and soak the (spotlessly clean and degreased) chain in.

*sings the putoline song*

There is an element of a longer lasting chain will make the new horribly expensive 12 speed cassettes also last longer.

Yes, this. The graph above (cost per 10,000km) has highlighted the fact that the actual chain cost difference between a cheap chain (PC1130 or whatever) and a decent one (X01) is not much. And if a better chain wears slower, it gives you a bigger 'window' to identify a worn chain that needs replacing before it takes out the rest of the cassette.

I imagine this is even more important for those people who just run a single chain + cassette into the ground.

Anecdotally, I had noticed that cheap chains wear out quicker, so thanks for posting the actual data! Not to mention that you can save a bit of weight here too (which the graphs also don't take into account). I think you lot have convinced me to go for more expensive chains in future.

Must be the time of year... some deep discussion on chains over on the other channel

Currently got an XX1 Eagle chain on, maybe 6 months old. It now has 2 powerlinks.

I like to remove the chain when giving the bike a proper clean, so disregard SRAM's insistence that powerlinks (£2.99 a pop) are single use only, removing it carefully before cleaning then reinstalling once I'm done.

I'm guessing the fact they're 12 speed means slightly thinner plates, more susceptible to bending when being removed. That's what must have happened recently, as the powerlink snapped during a ride. Didn't have a spare but did have a chain tool, so did a conventional repair. It did not like that at all and quickly snapped again. The hollow pins aren't meant to be moved, which I guess leaves a new powerlink as the only remedy for a snapped chain, hence me now having two.

Overall I've been impressed with Eagle (XO1 cassette and mech) but not being able to do a conventional chain repair isn't good IMO.

When they say "single use" on the quick links, I always assumed it was single use on that chain (so you're not supposed to re-use on a new chain).

Isn't the whole idea of them to be able to break your chain and re-join easily?

£200 cassettes? SLX are £66

£200 cassettes? SLX are £66

Fine, but XO1 cassettes aren't. In fact all cassette suitable for XD drivers are >£100, even sketchy-looking ones from China. But you knew that and were just trolling, right?

When they say “single use” on the quick links, I always assumed it was single use on that chain (so you’re not supposed to re-use on a new chain).

Isn’t the whole idea of them to be able to break your chain and re-join easily?

Not officially, no. Here's a statement from SRAM:

“Our 10- and 11-speed PowerLocks are one-time use only, because as they are removed, there’s enough deformation at the interface where the pin clicks into the plate that a second install will not be as secure. The potential failure mode is the PowerLock opening on its own when the chain goes slack. You can hear and feel that on initial install, the PowerLock installs with a loud click, and requires a tool to re-open. But on subsequent installations, it installs silently and with no effort, and can be re-opened by hand.”

Of course I'm happy to ignore that and re-use (although I did once have a chain fall apart in the manner above when using a 9spd PowerLink BITD).

£200 cassettes? SLX are £66

SRAM Red are £275 and Force £150 ish....

imo yes but to a limit.

i ride off road. the amount o mud the chain grinds through is immense. for this reason you want as corrosion resistant chain as possible. anything thats unplaited is a non starter imo. i also dont believe there is a reasonable benefit for a lighter chain.

I guess the continuation of this then, is….

Which chain lube…

Unless its REALLY wet 3-in-1... washes off after.

Yes, this. The graph above (cost per 10,000km) has highlighted the fact that the actual chain cost difference between a cheap chain (PC1130 or whatever) and a decent one (X01) is not much. And if a better chain wears slower, it gives you a bigger ‘window’ to identify a worn chain that needs replacing before it takes out the rest of the cassette.

£10 or less vs £40? So 4x the cost.

I imagine this is even more important for those people who just run a single chain + cassette into the ground.

I imagine that when a chain only costs a tenner there is no need to run it into the ground.
I just take a new one out of the toolbox remove some links and stick it on.

Powerlocks are totally reusable, I have some that've been fitted and removed dozens of times, and they still take an effort to fit and remove. I guess SRAM have their reasons, but I ignore 'em.

Wee bit skeptical of the tests. Like, with chain lube it's all very well to see what works best when first applied, but the real test is what still works 4 hours into a winter enduro race, and a lot of "good performing" lubes stopped doing anything 3 hours ago while others, especially the really heavy duty waxes, are still doing the job. And obviously, that's when the most accelerated wear happens too.

Likewise chain wear tests, it's less of a thing now with 1x being the norm for most harder use but I used to be a sucker for a posh chain, and pretty much every time, the lifespan wasn't down to wear, it was down to bending links as they have less metal in them.

So, I buy the second cheapest KMC these days. The bottom end one is a bit corrodey.

Northwind

I guess SRAM have their reasons, but I ignore ’em.

So, I buy the second cheapest KMC these days.

Agree with the above but aren't you using the KMC links?

Pretty boring aren’t they, bike chains! I usually spend around £20, shop around for the best deals. Recently bought one of the black coated KMC ones in CRC’s sale. That’s gotta last well hasn’t it?

“ finished with a unique stretch-proof treatment, the durability of this versatile model is enhanced by reducing the attrition between inner plates and pin.“
I believe em anyway.

Cheap singlespeed chains can be comical as to how much they stretch (I know it's not true stretch but you know what I mean) before settling down.

Agree on the nickel coated ones being good.

It's the hollow pinned chains that (imo) should only be reserved for racing, as they just collect mud in the pins and end up just as heavy as a cheaper solid pin chain.

I've always run XTR / Dura Ace on my bikes to match the groupset, other than my SS commuter which runs any old 8sp rubbish as I just let it wear till the sprockets go bald....

https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/cn-eagl-x01-a1#:~:text=The%20SRAM%20HARD%20CHROME%20chain,and%20is%20just%20as%20strong.

I use the X01 chains, according to Sram the Hard Chrome has 4 times the elongation resistance.
I certainly notice the difference from the GX ones but whether its 4 times i'm not so sure

Use SRAM PCX1 for 11 speed on the Ebikes and after a conversation with the SRAM guys at one of the EWS races now stick with 12 speed X01s. I keep any eye out for them when they come up in the sales and try and get a discount code at the same time to keep the price reasonable