[Closed] Are 650b and 29er that much better than 26er or not really ??

Go ride some and make up your own mind what suits your riding.

/eot

You been living under a rock?

Trails become alive.....

Stock answer - demo them. I rode 6 bikes (26 and 29) over the same trails for a day and that helped me make up my mind clearly. The 650b was irritating noise admittedly but that just delayed my purchase for 12 months to see how things settled down and stopped me buying a giant!

I am sold from riding them. The rest is just noise.

Make your own mind up...

Good bikes are good regardless of wheel size.

[img] [/img]

It's all marketing bollox, even our victorian ancestors knew that 60" wheels roll best, but a 16" rear wheel allows for shorter chainstays.

What was the outcome team hurt more ?

Not been living under a rock just not able to get out and ride a big wheeled bike as I don't know anyone who has one.

Apart from my mate down South who has just bought a Capra.

I would be looking at the budget end of bikes around £1600 so the likes of a codeine or something from canyon.

renton - Member
What was the outcome team hurt more ?

Change to your next bike because you need* a new bike. When deciding on your new bike, it might very well have a different size wheels to the one you are currently riding. Only a pleb** would go out and buy a new bike when they have one that they are are broadly happy with specifically and only to change wheel size.

* - need is clearly a word with many interpretations for a non essential toy

** - for pleb read sucker, gullible fool, financially irresponsible idiot or more money than sense plonker with no imagination.

Not better just different. Maybe better for some people most of the time though.

You really need to try some and understand it for yourself. You won't get it from forum chatter.

General consensus from friends is 650b is no real difference, maybe a little more grip.

My and friend opinion is the 29er is still a "game changer", well that's if you're on a good 29er.

It's utter BS from 29er naysayers that 29ers don't jump, don't manual, don't do turns.

29ers let you get away with less travel and have more grip. You end up with a bike which is more reactive and well as being more composed, that less travel helps out with jumping too.

Gone from 26 trail bike to 29er trail bike recently and it's better in every way.

I'm thinking of selling my 5 spot to move onto either a 650b or a 29er bike.

From what I recall, you've had an itch to change from the 5spot for a long time! But, given you seem to have struggled to flog the 5Spot for what you want, you haven't managed to scratch that itch and now you're over analysing the 'gains' you'll get from a new bike and therefore the justification for getting one.

Just sell the 5spot, get what you can for it (and it won't be as much as you hope for), try a few demos (29er & 650b) whilst you're in the process of flogging it and get a new bike: nothing wrong with the 5spot and you may or may not find the replacement any better but new bikes are fun and lifes too short to dwell on 'should I/shouldn't I'.

Cheap end of the scale at £1600 or a more modern but s/h 26" with top end stuff?

I'm on a 2011 5-spot and am happy to stay on it for quite some time. Any spare cash will be spent on upgrades that aren't 26" specific (apart from the Pikes that I can swap onto a HT if I do decide to change / win the lottery)

And to add to the 29er thing from Dean

Mate has had a 29er 5 at 140mm travel and he reckons that it's a game changer. I'd like to give that a go before going 650b

Renton, am I right in thinking that you've barely ridden your five-spot since you had it powder coated? I seem to remember a thread where you had been out on the bike for the first time in ages and didn't enjoy it...

If so I'd be asking myself why that was rather than throwing money at new bikes with new wheel sizes hoping to find a solution.

Obviously it's your money and your choice but is a different wheel size really going to make you ride your bike more?

I'm bought into 29er, for do-it-all HTs at least (which is what I ride).

For a reality check I rode my old 26" Blur Classic, which I spent many happy years on. The bloody thing doesn't roll unless pointed properly down. No momentum, the moment you're off the pedals, it stops. It was really frustrating.

It's a night & day difference to me.

But I'm not you - as everyone says, try as many different bikes and formats as you can.

Bregante you are right.

I just can't seem to click with it for some reason. It looks absolutely mint although the colour isn't to everyone's taste.

I don't know what it is ? I've upgraded the drive train etc and done about 100 miles on it since it was rebuilt.

You been living under a rock?

Don't you read the near-daily posts from renton? He's been living a soap opera life and hasn't got time to read about bikes!

I'm in line for a new bike this year and I have the same problem,deciding what wheel size to buy,I would like to stay 26" but I won't get anything 2015 I would have to go 650b,don't think I would notice the 1.5" extra TBH,but after a while of using a 650b and then going onto a 26" then I would probably notice the difference,IMO I think it all depends on what riding you do,and what people are racing,lots of 29 era in the xc world but not many in the downhill world,correct me if I'm wrong STW ers

I think [url= http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/upgradeitis ]this[/url] may be the root cause.

For coffee, see bikes/cars etc.... 🙂

There aren't any 29ers in the downhill, because putting a 29er wheel in a 200 travel frame that will fit and be ridable by most people is an engineering problem not yet solved. Not because 29" sized wheels are inherently unsuitable for downhill alone.

Two months until we get "which new car because my new 29er doesn't fit in my Mondeo without taking the wheels off"

But seriously, just ride the bike you've got and if you're still not feeling it give up MTBing for road cycling or dogging.

I've got two 26 and when I tried a 29 I was amazed at how far and fast it rolls and what speed I could manage not only on my local trails but on the roads getting to it. I ended up buying a salsa spearfish and with the small travel and big wheels I've never been as fast. Although I've now found fat love and it does seem to be the other end of the spectrum, lots lots slower but equally as much fun . So I would agree that 29ers are a huge difference but I haven't tried a 650b and doubt that a middle ground , as such, could be much more than a compromise. But as I say I haven't tried one yet.

Even if I wasn't entirely happy with the bike I had, if it were my only mountain bike I'd still be riding it until I sold it.

If I weren't riding it, I'd need to think long and hard before throwing more cash at another bike.

Just saying.

I've just been offered so many 26" tyres for free that there's no way I'll ever change. I'm sure the other sizes are fine but I can't see the point of having a mixed array of wheel sizes in the garage.

Well I've sold my hybrid so will have to ride the Turner to work until I can find a road or cross bike to replace it with.

Hopefully might start to like it again.

I switched to a 650b this year. Can't tell any difference out on the tasks.

Well I've sold my hybrid so will have to ride the Turner to work until I can find a road or cross bike to replace it with.
Hopefully might start to like it again.

I doubt it. Road commuting on a mountain bike is horrible...

[URL= http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y477/BigBlackShed/2E24B84C-EBF8-4C94-899C-786F6E43DB09_zps1zrsvnwg.jp g" target="_blank">http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y477/BigBlackShed/2E24B84C-EBF8-4C94-899C-786F6E43DB09_zps1zrsvnwg.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

Deanfbm +1

renton - Member
What was the outcome team hurt more ?

29 by a mile (although still own and ride a 26 HT). Why? There is a short trail (graveyard) on pitch hill near me. It's a rooty little drop down jnto the final car par. On a 29 it felt like a pavement, on the 26 a tricky slippy rooty section. So horses for courses, I felt much more comfortable on the 29er. And basic trail speed felt better.

My conundrum is type of bike not wheel size. The bike that always brings a mega smile to my face is the carbon epic but I also want a bike to help on the steeper stuff!! Hence probably compromise on camber evo. If the anthem sx was bigger wheels, I would have snapped that up too.

Where do you live Renton, I haha a 29er HT and FS you can try if you want?

Switched to 650b when I got my Whyte T-130 but as I was riding a XC 26" HT I think the positive changes I've experienced are as much geometry as wheel size.

http://www.hargrovescycles.co.uk/swindon-demo-day

https://www.orangebikes.co.uk/demo-day

Most of the big retailers will be posting up their demo day dates over the next few weeks.

Yes most of the bikes are out of your price range but find the bikes you like and go the second hand route, take your time and shop carefully and you will end up with a great bike for that money.

AsLee above says, where are you?

I have the full range... bmx, 24'' retro dh, 26'' ht and fs with 650b (27.5'' is incorrect) wheels to go in them and 29er ht and fs.

All top quality and most for sale at some point during the spring.

I have the full range... bmx, 24'' retro dh, 26'' ht and fs with 650b (27.5'' is incorrect) wheels to go in them and 29er ht and fs.

650b is incorrect. Should your 29ers be called 700c?

As has been said, you can't really say one size is better but they are all different so bring pro's and cons.

I was dead against 29" at first but then had a go on one that fit me properly and started to get it. I then got one and have come to the conclusion that, for me, 29" is best 95% of the time and the size I'll be sticking with.

Having tried a few 650b bikes I'd ignore the 'no different to 26"' brigade as I thought they rode more like 29" lite then 26"+ if that makes sense.

As has also been said, demo a few and make your own mind up!

Cheers for the replies.

I am in Elgin oop north in Scotland. Apart from halfords I don't even know where the lbs are.

Unless you are talking about unicycles, you don't buy a wheel, you buy a bike: a subtle combination of wheels, suspension and geometry that all act together to give the feel you want. There is no characteric that can be achieved with one wheel that can't also be achieved using either of the other common sizes. So, as the saying goes, just pick a size and be a dick about it 🙂

There is no characteric that can be achieved with one wheel that can't also be achieved using either of the other common sizes.

Not true. They're all different but many characteristics will overlap. There's no way a 29 can be made to feel like a 26, just like a 65 deg HA can't be made to feel like a 70 deg HA.

If a bike rides well for your needs and you enjoy it then I'd continue enjoying it rather than buying a new bike because you think something about it is wrong. If you're not enjoying it then I'd ask if it's the bike that's the real reason before buying a new one!

I used to stay in Elgin all the time when I visited Lossie, shame I don't go there as often. Soz

If a bike rides well for your needs and you enjoy it then I'd continue enjoying it rather than buying a new bike because you think something about it is wrong. If you're not enjoying it then I'd ask if it's the bike that's the real reason before buying a new one!

Yeh, that's it pretty much.

I've never ridden one, but it's pretty clear to see that 650b is just the same as 26". If you don't enjoy riding your current 26" bike, then you won't enjoy the 650b version either.

29" are totally different though. But if you're just bombing round trail centres allday, then I doesn't make any difference.

I've never ridden one, but it's pretty clear to see that 650b is just the same as 26". If you don't enjoy riding your current 26" bike, then you won't enjoy the 650b version either.

If you want to know how a bike feels ride it, riding my Blur LTc 26 and 650 is different. It's obvious that people making sweeping generalisations about wheel size are making it all up...

I've never had a curry in India but I reckon it's the same as the ones you get in sainsbury....
If you want to know how a bike feels ride it, riding my Blur LTc 26 and 650 is different. It's obvious that people making sweeping generalisations about wheel size are making it all up...

😀

Seriosuly though, put on a set of high rise wide bars and your bike will feel different. Only slightly mind you.

Renton you've owned more bikes than me. Like women there will always be a better looker out there. But you need to settle down dude and have trail babies.

When your Mondeo goes wrong when will you be getting rid of that? Stop dude. Savour life.

renton: How tall are you?

If u r not in a hurry to buy u r welcome to try mine out, it will b ready to roll early February.

I'm in Monifieth, Angus - so not that far....

I've ridden the same bike with 650b and 26" wheels, as well as several other "newer" 650b versions of 26" that I've liked.

All have been faster than the 26" version for the kind of riding I do.

For me, speed is the thing that interests me, rather than playfulness, "fun feel" or whatever, so as has been said, its about picking what best suits your needs/wants. But don't get sucked into the usual "no different", "lizard rulers of the bike industry" hype. Fact is, 650 IS different in the way it rides.

hora - Member
Renton you've owned more bikes than me.

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For hard tails 29" makes a lot of sense, although for shorter riders it can cause fitting issues, trek seem to offer some of their bikes (same model)in 650/29 depending on frame size.

For full suspension 650 makes a lot of sense

I am happy with my carbon fibre 29'er for trail riding, its very fast, surprisingly capable on rough ground and also very fun to ride. When you get used to the larger wheel, you learn to really exploit the momentum

I've borrowed a 650 carbon fibre hard tail with similar spec for a week, rode on my usual trails and the only thing I found was it slower than my 29'er whilst not being any more 'fun' to ride

My full sus 29r makes a lot of sense, why pigeon hole stuff?

On a 29 it felt like a pavement, on the 26 a tricky slippy rooty section.

so now a trail that was challenging is not - what was the point of that ?

so now a trail that was challenging is not - what was the point of that ?

If it helps, I've also ridden that trail on a 29er (ht) and in the wet I still find it quite tricky.

Hmm perhaps that says more about my riding than the bike.

I've got a Salsa Horsethief fs 29er.
I've ridden other bikes, 26 ht and fs, 69er, fat bikes etc, all similar spec levels.

The Salsa is the best. I ride around the 7 stanes, Laggan, local stuff like the Pentland Hills etc. It's fast, comfy, gets over obstacles the best and I do my best riding on it. It can manual, jump and turn just fine.

I've ridden my 29er FS over 3,500KMs on all sorts of trails. It's 130mm/110mm. I also have a 26inch NukeProof Mega. They're both fun, the Mega is probably better suited to about 10% of the stuff we ride (mainly outside the UK), the 29er has been brilliant everywhere else. The high water mark of how hard they can be ridden is me. The best upgrade I had was a second visit to Tony Doyle.

Going from 26 to 29 is pretty easy. Going the other way takes a while. They do ride differently, and it's well worth demo-ing a few to see if they work for you. For a trail bike, I think my Pyga is brilliant. Is it because it has big wheels? No Idea.

Still I've just ordered a Bird Aeris so I can have two bikes quite similar. So you probably shouldn't heed any of my advice!

I had a 26 before my current bike and was aware of the potential marketing hype. I read a lot of reviews before I chose a 2014 Specialized Enduro 29 ( these are currently reduced from £2600 and can be had for £1800. I ride a lot with my son who's 19 & fit as a fiddle I'm 49 and overweight. He tells me slow down as he struggles to keep up whereas before we were evenly matched. I can't persuade you what to buy but don't discount 29ers.

As mentioned before Rose bikes, YT Industries and Canyon all offer Value for money but there are a lot of 2014 bikes on sale at the moment.

There's no way a 29 can be made to feel like a 26, just like a 65 deg HA can't be made to feel like a 70 deg HA.

What 29" have you ridden that were made to feel (handle?) like 26"? Give a 29" a 380mm BB height and it'll start to handle a lot like a 26" as long as wheelbase and angles are comparable. Say 2 degrees slacker HA on the 26".

Of course the 29" will still have lower rolling resistance but that's another story.

For hard tails 29" makes a lot of sense

Agreed. I was so impressed by mine that I had a hunch a full-sus 29er would be even more awesome on my local trails (quite bumpy).

Turns out I was right, happily.

FWIW I might prefer 650b if I lived somewhere that the riding was mostly tight and twisty or mega techy.

I sold my 5 Spot last year. Bought a 650b. Thaaaaaaaat's right. I made the change. I like the change and I'm sticking with the change. Pow! Back of the net.

What did you go for coogan and how does it compare to the five spot ?

Have you considered a red bike?
I heard they're really fast.
Or maybe a blue bike.
I heard they can entice you to ride more.

I've just swapped from a 26 inch Ibis mojo HD (the frame + shock is for sale if anyone wants it) to a 650b Orbea Rallon.

Theres no doubt about it the Rallon absolutely flies on rough downhills that would have had the Mojo Hd feeling a bit rough. I very much doubt that is solely down to the larger wheel size,but its probably a contributory factor, I expect its a combination of everything. What I cant detect though is any downside to the larger wheels, apart from the cost of buying new wheels ,forks etc.

My 29ner is easier to ride faster on faster tracks (and the road), it's black. My 26 HT is more fun in the naggery bits, it's white but it might all be down to geometry.
Ps my yellow bike is the most fun to look at and silver the smartest...

I would have to go 650b,don't think I would notice the 1.5" extra..........correct me if I'm wrong STW ers

Ta, the difference between 26 and 27.5 is 25 mm, not 1.5 inches.

mattjg - Member
If it helps, I've also ridden that trail on a 29er (ht) and in the wet I still find it quite tricky.

Hmm perhaps that says more about my riding than the bike.

I crashed on that trail the other day on a 26 HT. Clearly the bike is wrong. Not the fact it was sloppy, I picked the wrong line and overbalanced crashing down off the side 😉

But seriously, ridden it for years on a 26, FS and HT and it's a right laugh. If it was smooth and simple I just wouldn't ride it. Not sure 29ers smooth that one out though. The main advantage is probably just in rolling through the ditch into the car park 😉

Anyway, I ride weekend warrior stuff, mostly with people on 26s and a couple of 650b. Then I ride evening rides, more xc or less "gnar" trails, and half the people there ride 29ers and I'm on my 26. The only disadvantage I feel I have is when we hit a bit of flat steep fireroad climb and the 29ers cruise up the hill past me. Once we hit the twisty trails the field is levelled again.

Just become a 650 convert. Swapped my 10yr old(gave to son)Kona Dawg for a RM Altitude(cheap one!)and there is definitely a difference. Whether it is the wheel size or just the package as a whole it definitely is faster, smoother and going to get me into trouble(injured)soon 🙄
I suspect my Blue Pig may become redundant.....

Just went out on a 29, a 650b and a 26 today. Recently bought a 650b frame as well, prefer the 26. I found cornering much easier than even the 650b bike and any difference in roll over could be negated by just attacking the trail more confidently.

Still, maybe it just takes a while to adjust to the wheel size?

Recently changed to 650b and I,m a lot more confident on tecky slow stuff on the downs!
First ride of 2015 today and I got loads of KOMs 🙂

chiefgrooveguru - Member
I have the full range... bmx, 24'' retro dh, 26'' ht and fs with 650b (27.5'' is incorrect) wheels to go in them and 29er ht and fs.
650b is incorrect. Should your 29ers be called 700c?

I think the point being made here is that 29er wheels actually are 29inch whereas 27.5 wheels actually come up at just over 27.1 .

Swapped my 10yr old(gave to son)Kona Dawg for a RM Altitude(cheap one!)and there is definitely a difference

Wheel size definately doesn't make up for travel though does it - check out 1.12 to 1.18.

First bike is a 650b with 160mm of travel, 2nd is 650b with 140 front 125 rear, second is 29er with 110mm on the rear.

Is it me or does the 29er looks no where near as composed?

I think the point being made here is that 29er wheels actually are 29inch whereas 27.5 wheels actually come up at just over 27.1 .

If you assume that a 26 wheel is actually 26" in diameter (it isn't, unless you use tiny tyres), then a 29 wheel is actually 28.5".

@renton I bough a Pivot Mach 6 and I bloody love it. How does it compare, well I do think it's better than my 5 Spot (and I loved that bike, in fact both I had) but difficult to say it's better because of yada yada as there is almost 5 years of difference in terms of age, design etc, not a fair comparison. One was alu and the Pivot is carbon fibre, so it's lighter, stiffer etc.

But over all I'm faster on the Pivot, it does carry its speed better and its an absolute hoot to ride. The reason I looked at the Mach 6 is its a DW link like he 5 spot and I'm a big fan of DW links.

But, as always, you gotta test test test! I I tested it, fell for it, bought it.

chiefgrooveguru - Member
I think the point being made here is that 29er wheels actually are 29inch whereas 27.5 wheels actually come up at just over 27.1 .
If you assume that a 26 wheel is actually 26" in diameter (it isn't, unless you use tiny tyres), then a 29 wheel is actually 28.5".

A 29er wheel with a 2.25 tyre on it will actually measure 29 inches .

To be fair renton, it sounds like you need a road bike. Less faff, no driving to trails, just ride straight from, your door. Much cheaper and they last alot longer aswell. A road bike is the bike half of mountain bikers actually need.

A 29er wheel with a 2.25 tyre on it will actually measure 29 inches

The 27.5 wheels with Trail King 2.2 tyres on my full-sus measure 28". The 26 wheels on my hardtail with Rubber Queen 2.2 (same tyre, different name) measure 27".

My take on the whole wheel size argument is that 29ers for taller riders & long distance mile munching, 650b for more smiles than miles.

My take on the whole wheel size argument is that 29ers for taller riders & long distance mile munching, 650b for more smiles than miles.

I'd call you wrong then! On anything other then tame arsing about my 29" FS is more fun (IMO).

I've never ridden one, but it's pretty clear to see that 650b is just the same as 26". If you don't enjoy riding your current 26" bike, then you won't enjoy the 650b version either.

It's actually not at all though.

29" are totally different though. But if you're just bombing round trail centres allday, then I doesn't make any difference.

Yes it does.

It's actually not at all though.

What sort of differences do the 650b wheels make do you think?