[Closed] Are 29ers really dead

rOcKeTdOg - Member

Why are 26" wheel riders so defensive? & seem to get really upset because someone else tries something different

Because, if this goes the way some people are predicting and a lot of people want it to go, 26 inch becomes a development dead end, parts become less available, values of parts already owned drop. It's not that hard to understand surely?

Trying something different and selling it on its merits is one thing, pushing something different for reasons other than performance is another...

yes that is why we are annoyed we have expensive bikes that perform the task we need and the industry - realising they cannot get us to upgrade my orange 5 to this years new colour for £1.5 k [ or from 9 to 10 speed] create new standards and drop the 26 er to basically force my hand into getting new bikes

FWIW i can see the point of a 29 er though i dont want one but 650 b is neither one thing nor another and no one i know wants one or really cares tbh

Because, if this goes the way some people are predicting and a lot of people want it to go, 26 inch becomes a development dead end, parts become less available, values of parts already owned drop. It's not that hard to understand surely?

Who are the 'lot of people' who want to get rid of 26" bikes? Are they a secret lizard/David Icke cult who worship 29 as a number? You are beginning to sound a bit alarmist. Things change and I do believe that choice is good. I don't want a Model T in black.

I do believe that choice is good

All 26 er and the colour of my choice?

they are the they of which he talks [ do you want some more ?]...but you knew that as, despite your name, you dont live with your head in the clouds.

Most of the parts between all 3 wheel sizes are the same anyway, groupsets, bars, stems, dropper posts, pedals, shocks (in certain cases) etc. Plus it's not like 26" rims are going to vanish anytime soon.

There are just as many if not more flipping bottom bracket, headset and seat post diameter and bolt through standards to mess things up.

My 29er with QR wheels, 27.2mm seatpost and 1 1/8" headset, is already looking old school and its only 2 years old.

Things move on, companies need to make money etc. If you don't like it take up walking.

TooTall - Member

Who are the 'lot of people' who want to get rid of 26" bikes? Are they a secret lizard/David Icke cult who worship 29 as a number?

Perhaps. Or perhaps they're Specialized bikes, Giant who've made a huge push to 29er to the extent that many of their 26 inch models are no longer offered, Orange who'll no longer be selling their flagship model in 26 inch. Or Santa Cruz who openly admit they're shelving 26 inch models in favour of 650b, purely for marketing reasons, to sell them people who've never even ridden a 650b bike but who've decided they want one after reading the marketing material...

Nah, must just be me being paranoid. If you believe choice is good, why are you so happy with choices being removed?

I reckon 29ers are now undoubtedly dead. Why? Because I just built myself one and I tend to be well behind the curve on this kind of thing. So I probably just gave 29ers the kiss of death...

Do I care? Nope. I just like riding my bikes 🙂

Who are the 'lot of people' who want to get rid of 26" bikes?

companies need to make money etc. If you don't like it take up walking

Why the antagonism? [ yes I returned it for effect]

It is perfectly fine to love cycling and object to a new standard that exists primarily to make you upgrade to something simply so they can make money. [ obviously 10 speed was not enough for them, nor tapered nor press fit]

If you think this is fine then say so and defend the industry attacking folk who think the industry is taking the piss adds little to the debate

my bike sucks 8)

[IMG] [/IMG]

Im very open minded when it comes to wheel size, whatever suits you and makes you happy. But i was just reading about the 2014 Spicy on Bikeradar. Comes in 27.5 next year, which is no surprise, but what stands out for me is that over a 2min 50sec track the 27.5 wheels were only approx 1 second quicker than a 26" version, and that's with Voulouz riding it. Is it really worth it? Not saying i wouldn't consider 27.5 if i was in the market for a complete new bike and the one i liked just happen to be that wheel size, but its hardly the huge difference the marketing men are making out.

I just don't get the complaints. If you don't want 29/27" wheels keep riding your perfectly good 26" wheeled bike; no-one is forcing you to buy a new bike. So stop whining that it's industry's fault that you want one!

MUG you are the exact customer that they love so quick upgrade that "outdated" steed

But I'm not. I ride a mtb for about 10 years before replacing, so it's not me that's grumbling about re-sale value and the like. It is the people who constantly change stuff that seem most upset, 'cos the 2nd value of their frame has fallen, boo hoo. If they liked their 26er so much why do they want to sell it anyway?

buzz-lightyear - Member

I just don't get the complaints. If you don't want 29/27" wheels keep riding your perfectly good 26" wheeled bike; no-one is forcing you to buy a new bike.

And when you need new parts, and can't find the ones you want?

Or, if you decide to sell your bike, and discover it's been devalued? If I'd bought an Orange Five 3 months ago I'd be peeved right now, new models always devalue old ones but retiring a model entirely hammers resale value.

I don't quite understand how you can miss the point by so far. Nobody objects that there are new bikes and new wheel sizes available.

I just don't get the complaints. If you don't want 29/27" wheels keep riding your perfectly good 26" wheeled bike; no-one is forcing you to buy a new bike. So stop whining that it's industry's fault that you want one!

Exactly. If you like your 26" Five, for example, keep riding it. You'll be able to get spares for it for as long as you want. When you come to buy a new bike then you'll have to choose from what's on offer, but that was always the case. The 2012 Five was different to the 2006 one (angles etc) and the 2014 one will be different to the 2012 one (wheel size). But you'd moan if a company never updated their product as well.

EDIT: I can see the devalued point to some extent, but only if you regularly upgrade and worry about resale value. If you buy a bike and ride it until it breaks then that isn't an issue. Also, given the anti-650b backlash, maybe that 3 month old Five will be worth more in a few months 🙂

dragon well done for keeping the antagonism/trolling though you have somewhat misrepresented everyones point to garner a reaction ...good luck

If I'd bought an Orange Five 3 months ago I'd be peeved right now,

You buy your bike with it's resale value in mind? I buy mine cause I like the way it rides, if you've chosen the right one why would you think about selling it, I think your priorities are wrong, don't most of you think ride & fun first & wring your hands about resale second?

If all you think of is value and changing your bike you are the marketeers dream!

I bought an expensive 26er earlier this year. If in 2 years time my choice of 26" tyres - consumables, not upgrades - is limited to Schwalbe's excess stock that no one wanted in the first place am I allowed to be annoyed?

And when you need new parts, and can't find the ones you want?

Of course you can/will. E.g. Stans will not stop making 26" rims for those who want them; Maxxis will not stop making 26" High Rollers; Sapim will still make the required spoke lengths etc. Bogus argument.

Devaluation of 26" bikes? Bikes are not financial investments any more than cars. I had not realised re-sale value was much of a consideration when buying bikes. It's a passion thing for me - pure and simple. OK that's valid.

That front page poll must have the manufacturers wetting themselves. From no-where and not looking for a wheel change, to 20% of the market and endless discussions on the UK's biggest MTB forum.

Game changer as they say...probably...in cool offices...with y'know...hipsters in them...and stuff.

And when you need new parts, and can't find the ones you want?

Which will be what parts exactly?

Fork choice will probably reduce a little, but that's happened before with changing standards for headsets and hubs. Plus it won't happen overnight.

Of course you can/will. E.g. Stans will not stop making 26" rims for those who want them; Maxxis will not stop making 26" High Rollers; Sapim will still make the required spoke lengths etc. Bogus argument.

For availability to remain constant your local shop now has to keep stock of three times the range of rims, tyres, tubes they did a few years ago - sales of each of which will be reduced. Excellent - I was worried that bike components weren't expensive enough.

Maxxis will not stop making 26" High Rollers

That's quite a bold statement 😀 If they can't see any money to be made or simply can't afford to keep investing in and running 3 different sized moulds for the same tyre something will have to give. These guys have to follow the whims of the industry as much as us consumers.

You buy your bike with it's resale value in mind?

I buy mine cause I like the way it rides,if you've chosen the right one why would you think about selling it,

buzz-lightyear - Member
Bikes ridden by riding group in last 2 years:

Quarterhorse (29er)
Tall Boy (29er)
TranceX (26)
Sovereign (26)
Tracer 275 (650b)
Sultan (29er)
XTC (29er)
Solaris (29er)
Slim Jim (29er)
Superlight (29er)
Inbred (29er)
El Mariachi (29er)

Soon to be bought:

Mojo (650b)

29ers dominate here and riders are saying they'll never ride 26 again.

Another industry boy! 🙄

rOcKeTdOg - Member
If I'd bought an Orange Five 3 months ago I'd be peeved right now,
rOcKeTdOg - Member
If I'd bought an Orange Five 3 months ago I'd be peeved right now,
[b]You buy your bike with it's resale value in mind? I buy mine cause I like the way it rides[/b], if you've chosen the right one why would you think about selling it, I think your priorities are wrong, don't most of you think ride & fun first & wring your hands about resale second?

If all you think of is value and changing your bike you are the marketeers dream!You buy your bike with it's resale value in mind? I buy mine cause I like the way it rides, if you've chosen the right one why would you think about selling it, I think your priorities are wrong, don't most of you think ride & fun first & wring your hands about resale second?

If all you think of is value and changing your bike you are the marketeers dream!

You must be loaded! 🙄 of course it helps if you know your going to get a good value for it!

Are 29ers really dead?

The question should be where 29ers ever alive?

I got couple of 29ers ive been riding mountainbikes since 83' the 29er's just seem [i]so[/i] easy to ride, with the extra grip going up you can just relax and not have to worry about finding the best line and having your *buttocks violated by the nose of the saddle to stop the bike flipping over backwards. I think they are some of the best riding bikes i've had.

I'm be very happy if no one else was riding them because it make me look like a more skillfull rider than i actually am, anything that makes me look cool is a good thing (what with the deformities and all).

*i miss this sometimes.

buzz-lightyear - Member

Of course you can/will. E.g. Stans will not stop making 26" rims for those who want them; Maxxis will not stop making 26" High Rollers; Sapim will still make the required spoke lengths etc. Bogus argument.

Can't find the ones you want, I said. If 26 inch becomes an unloved standard, shops will carry the parts less even where they're available. Reduced choice, and increased prices.

If you don't quite believe it, look at forks as a wee microcosm. 20mm's fallen massively in the last couple of years, tapered steerers hugely reduced choice in straight steerer forks.

But yes, the amount of choice of new products and even existing products will fall, if this goes according to the "plan". Watch tyres first. Manufacturers won't want to continue with 3 parallel product lines- the decision to push into 650b only makes sense if they expect either a permanent 50% increase in sales (implausible tbh) or to reduce the number of lines over time.

rOcKeTdOg - Member

You buy your bike with it's resale value in mind?

Nope. But I know sometimes I change bikes, and resale value is relevant when I do.

pussywillow - Member

rOcKeTdOg - Member
If I'd bought an Orange Five 3 months ago I'd be peeved right now,
rOcKeTdOg - Member
If I'd bought an Orange Five 3 months ago I'd be peeved right now,
You buy your bike with it's resale value in mind? I buy mine cause I like the way it rides, if you've chosen the right one why would you think about selling it, I think your priorities are wrong, don't most of you think ride & fun first & wring your hands about resale second?

If all you think of is value and changing your bike you are the marketeers dream!You buy your bike with it's resale value in mind? I buy mine cause I like the way it rides, if you've chosen the right one why would you think about selling it, I think your priorities are wrong, don't most of you think ride & fun first & wring your hands about resale second?

If all you think of is value and changing your bike you are the marketeers dream!

You must be loaded! of course it helps if you know your going to get a good value for it!

not loaded at all, but i ride my bikes, test ride them first and keep them ages, buying and selling and worrying about profit/value seems to be why others buy bikes though, which seems a bit odd

rOcKeTdOg - Member

buying and selling and worrying about profit/value seems to be why others buy bikes though

Really? Who?

Choice of wheel size is good. Personally I think the 29r almost certainly offers something different/better/extra over 26r in some circumstances (rider types/terrain etc etc). Conversely 26r should work better for some uses and users. What I really struggle to see the point of is 650b.

Production volumes may dictate availability of 26 tyres and rims long term at the better quality end of the market. That i think is the genuine concern of those who.have invested £1000+ inframes, wheels and forks for long term use. Noone wants £20 80a wire bead tyres on their 3k fs bike do they?

This thread has gone a bit off topic and descended into the tired old wheel size debate again. Inevitable really.

I can see why some people think choice is good. I can see the argument that some wheel sizes are better than others in certain circumstances. What I really don't see - what I don't understand - is the belief of some that we can and will see support for all sizes across all corners of the industry. The breadth of choice will get narrower and narrower until one day I'll get a sidewall split in my tyre and pop into the nearest and only bike shop for miles around whilst on my hard-earned bike holiday.

"Sorry mate, we don't stock that size. Not much demand for it"

Those who genuinely believe this won't happen at some stage are only fooling themselves. I have a 26er and a 29er so I hope it's the cynical and pointless 650b 🙂

Lapierre look like they'll be ditching 26ers for 2014. The Spicy is moving to 27.5 and they're selling the Zesty in either 120mm 29er or 150mm 27.5.

Those who genuinely believe this won't happen at some stage are only fooling themselves. I have a 26er and a 29er so I hope it's the cynical and pointless 650b

not a chance of 650 going and 26 staying, too much marketing effort from too many companies now.

I'll just stick with my 26er for the next few years( at least) and see what happens.

I'm not convinced that 650b actually offers any improvement over 26", but I'm kind of pleased to see everybody jumping on the same bandwagon. As these threads show, one of the big problems for the consumer is not knowing which "standard" will survive in the long term. With virtually every big brand dropping 26" bikes (at least at the mid to high end) it does at least provide some clarity.

roverpig - Member

one of the big problems for the consumer is not knowing which "standard" will survive in the long term. With virtually every big brand dropping 26" bikes (at least at the mid to high end) it does at least provide some clarity.

Mmm. Unconvinced. I'd say it proves that even a dominant standard can be unhorsed with enough industry effort. Certainly proves again that the merit of the standard isn't very important.

In general, we seem to unerringly seek out the pointless, splitter's option... 650b is the QR15 of wheels so why resist the inevitable 😉

I agree with mrmo, and am doing the exact same thing.
Same with 29, huge global multi nationals have invested far too much money for it to fail. Spesh have a massive share of the market and have simply dropped 26 (pretty much), forcing their customers onto 29ers.
Ultimately we'll just get whatever the US market decides we'll get, and everyone will just follow (see new Orange 5).

Mmm. Unconvinced. I'd say it proves that even a dominant standard can be unhorsed with enough industry effort. Certainly proves again that the merit of the standard isn't very important.

In general, we seem to unerringly seek out the pointless, splitter's option... 650b is the QR15 of wheels so why resist the inevitable

I'm not disagreeing with you. In fact I think that you are spot on with your 650b-QR15 analogy. But, as a consumer what I really want to know is whether the industry will continue to support whatever I buy for as long as I'm likely to keep it. At least if they all jump the same way I can be a bit more confident about that, even if I can't really see the point of the standard.

roverpig - Member

as a consumer what I really want to know is whether the industry will continue to support whatever I buy for as long as I'm likely to keep it

Yep. And now we know for sure that they might just bin it, out of the blue.

The QR15 point made above has a point. Are all the people upset about 650b or 29ers being forced on us still riding bikes with 9mm QR front and back? If not, did you have to buy new wheels to accomodate your 15mm/20mm/maxel etc fork or frame?

If not, did you have to buy new wheels to accomodate your 15mm/20mm/maxel etc fork or frame?

Been riding/racing on 29ers now for the past year, would never go back to a 26er. I find they're much more fun to ride plus they roll over stuff much easier.

Most of the races I enter have a higher percentage of 29ers now than they did a year or so ago.

Most of the races I enter have a higher percentage of 29ers now than they did a year or so ago.

Most of the races i enter have no 29ers but the last race i did had some 29ers and 650b mostley 26er though.

mrmo - Member

I'll just stick with my 26er for the next few years( at least) and see what happens.

I agree with this. I was thinking about a new bike but then 27.5 happened. I wont be parting with cash for a while now so not ideal marketing in some respects!

Most of the races I enter have a higher percentage of 29ers now than they did a year or so ago.

29ers are ideal for XC racers. But for the rest of us......

29ers are no more or less ideal for the rest of us, unless you need or insist on having more than 150mm suspension. There are no downsides for normal AM or trail duties with 29ers. If you're doing something more specialised then you get the kit to suit. Like I said before, to think you can or should have a one size fits all wheel size for every element of mountain biking, you're kidding yourself.

I'm not kidding anyone, nor saying that certain people should be on certain wheel sizes. It's the 29er evangelists which do that.
I've found downsides to 29ers for general trail duties for me. To say there aren't is bollocks, just as it is to say there are no downsides to 26ers. Everything is a compromise.

2014 Zesty 27.5 and 29er

[URL= http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/m444uk/4457-Zesty-927-Carbone-Ei-Masthead-2048x904.jp g" target="_blank">http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/m444uk/4457-Zesty-927-Carbone-Ei-Masthead-2048x904.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

[URL= http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/m444uk/Lapierre-2014-12.jp g" target="_blank">http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/m444uk/Lapierre-2014-12.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

Spicy 27.5. looks like 26 is history at the expensive end of the market for some manufacturers

[URL= http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/m444uk/Lapierre-2014-7.jp g" target="_blank">http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/m444uk/Lapierre-2014-7.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

Northwind - Member

rOcKeTdOg - Member

buying and selling and worrying about profit/value seems to be why others buy bikes though

Really? Who?

you really don't read the thread do you?

It's the 29er evangelists which do that.

who needs 29er evangelists, 26" owners seem to be working themselves up into a sweat on their own

it's all just riding, try it instead of worrying about "the next big thing"

and that Lapiere is hideous, in any wheel size

Phewwww just back from the shed and mine's still alive!

Would anybody actually give up riding if they couldn't get their chosen wheel size?

I wouldn't.

Just to go back to the op for a sec. The 4 lads I know that have bought new bikes this year have all bought 29ers. These were all new to mtb. There reasoning was from there if they don't really get into it they've got a good towpath cruiser. If they do get into it they've bought so they can upgrade ( the bike not the wheel size). My very humble view is if it gives me more people to have a laugh with. There not dead just maturing. Also I like the look of the 27.5 and will seriously consider for next bike( might not have a choice) oh I just bought the wife a 26 as I could upgrade with all my spares!

rOcKeTdOg - Member

you really don't read the thread do you?

Oh, be a dear and answer the question would you? Yes I've read the thread, and I see nothing like what you suggest.

Would anybody actually give up riding if they couldn't get their chosen wheel size?

Nope. 650b and 26 are so similar, either would do me.

Oh, be a dear and answer the question would you? Yes I've read the thread, and I see nothing like what you suggest.

I suggest you read it again, properly this time.

be a dear

I would ride any of the three sizes but I will not be buying again until the current situation regularises and we know where the manufacturers are going to settle down. If I had to buy now due to breakage a rigid ss 29r would be my choice. I think 29 is probably the one size that will survive the present fiasco and someone whose riding is dominated by rolling hills it wouldnt sem to offer significant shortcomings.

I think 29r is most likely to survive due to the quantum of recent industry investment and marketing spin. If 29r dies then there is a risk of a pr backfire around the whole larger wheels are awesum message.

The most likely casualty would appear to be 26r at the minute. If i dont buy any more kit i can probably live with dumping the remnants in 3-5 years when i expect we might start to see a reduction in good tyres and riims if 650b fills the small wheel role very quickly.

So not going to answer the question then? Righto.

Probably worth pointing out that many 26' fred flintsone type relics can accommodate 650b wheels.

Elpanzer's tasty 650b Lapierre

[URL= http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/m444uk/Zesty-514-650b-Pacenti-TL28-rime-Pacenti-Noe-Moto-2-1.jp g" target="_blank">http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/m444uk/Zesty-514-650b-Pacenti-TL28-rime-Pacenti-Noe-Moto-2-1.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

garage-dweller - Member
[s]I would ride any of the three sizes but[/s] [b]I will not be buying again until the current situation regularises and we know where the manufacturers are going to settle down.[/b] [s]If I had to buy now due to breakage a rigid ss 29r would be my choice. I think 29 is probably the one size that will survive the present fiasco and someone whose riding is dominated by rolling hills it wouldnt sem to offer significant shortcomings.

I think 29r is most likely to survive due to the quantum of recent industry investment and marketing spin. If 29r dies then there is a risk of a pr backfire around the whole larger wheels are awesum message.

The most likely casualty would appear to be 26r at the minute. If i dont buy any more kit i can probably live with dumping the remnants in 3-5 years when i expect we might start to see a reduction in good tyres and riims if 650b fills the small wheel role very quickly.[/s]

POSTED 3 HOURS AGO #

I think this is what a lot of people will do, Its even hard to sell a second hand bike lately, it will all have a knock on effect and might even back fire on the industry!

I think this is what a lot of people will do, Its even hard to sell a second hand bike lately, it will all have a knock on effect and might even back fire on the industry!

I think you've posted this by accident with your trolling account. 😳

It makes sense.

The pussy always makes sense!

We have certainly kept an eye on this thread in our shop and there is some valid points here I must say

Still no sale of 29ers this week in one of our shops have sold a few 26 though so there is still life there I admit and the subsidence of non 29er sales shows this year .

I will go which ever way makes the industry tick over nicely in all honesty

If I'd bought an Orange Five 3 months ago I'd be peeved right now,

You buy your bike with it's resale value in mind?

I actually did something like this and I'm a bit miffed to be honest. They finally offer something to taller riders, a 22" frame, which I jumped on and bought. The next year release a whole host of far more interesting things appear.

I've genuinely never seen another 22" Five or anyone expressing the slightest interest in one. Now there's a 29er and 650b model I can't see why they would either. Curiously I'd seen it as a brand that would hold it's resale, as it's not changed in years, then it changes.

Oops.

Not that it hugely matters, its top fun anyway. It's about the one time I've splashed out though, usually get things on the cheap.

Toasty, ten years ago to the month I took possession of a brand new Sub 5. A couple of months later, the Sub 5 was dead and the 5 was born. I was gutted for a little while, however I have had ten years enjoyment out of the bike now. It's just about to be replaced by a 29er, so expect the industry to drop them in two months time 🙂 honestly enjoy your bike, everyone stop worrying about what the next big thing is. The bike you own is the one that'll give you the most pleasure.

Most of the mtb we sell are 29 but as a specialized dealer choice is a little limited
As that about all they offer above £500
Tbh the world is going road bike crazy
A mtb sales of any sort seem a novelty this year

Surely buying a Five last month is no different to buying one just before they put a kink in the top tube, or slackened the angles, or made the seatpost compatible with droppers, or went to a tapered headtube, or, or, or. The design evolves every few years, usually by a tiny amount. It never makes the older bike any worse, but hopefully makes the newer one a tiny bit better each time.

Changing the wheel size by 3% is probably one of the smaller changes really. In fact I'd wager that it's less significant than any other changes that they might have made as well (e.g. lighter shock mounts). If they've increased the chainstay length to fit in the larger wheel then that will probably have a bigger effect on the handling than the change in wheel size itself anyway.

bikeind - Member

We have certainly kept an eye on this thread in our shop and there is some valid points here I must say

Still no sale of 29ers this week in one of our shops have sold a few 26 though so there is still life there I admit and the subsidence of non 29er sales shows this year .

I will go which ever way makes the industry tick over nicely in all honesty

It must be difficult for a dealer to second guess what's going to be in demand next season. Can you return bikes to distributors if you can't shift them ?

[URL= http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/m444uk/tttjpg.jp g" target="_blank">http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/m444uk/tttjpg.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

Nope , sale or return is NOT how it works
if you buy a shed load of stuff at the start of the model year and it flops things get very depressing

At best you might get 30 day terms unless the wholesaler is desparate

edit

I only ever rode a cross bike and road bikes so for me a 29er felt natural and I can swop wheels between bikes. Apart from that I don't care. Wouldn't mind trying a 26er though just to be a bit niche.

I rode a 29er today. It was ace. Might do it again tomorrow.

We have 659b in stock right now which are showing great intrest
And the new spicy in 650b mode will be our flagship bike
We are plugging the 650b more at this present time

Won't there big a huge surplus of 26" bikes and parts that the industry will want to clear before going the whole hog with 29ers.

Reminds me of the television thing, LED plasma etc was slow to go untill the industry got rid of all it's 'normal' old style tellys.

oldgit - Member

Won't there big a huge surplus of 26" bikes and parts that the industry will want to clear

Manufacturers like to create an orderly market. Control excess discounting devaluing the brand. Old or excess stock sometimes gets crushed rather than let the plebs get their hands on it.

Manufacturers & distributors are getting better (i.e out of the dark ages) about forecasting so there 'shouldnt' be a massive stock dump at key season points.

Occasionally it still goes t*ts up though.

bikeind - MemberWe have 659b in stock right now which are showing great intrestAnd the new spicy in 650b mode will be our flagship bikeWe are plugging the 650b more at this present time

Where is your shop?

My LBS is full of 29ers, but then he's a Kona dealer.

Also, I see more and more 29ers about locally...

Whilst out riding I saw a horrific sight, deep in the woods; hundreds of 29ers all with skinny steel tubes and rust, thrown into shallow graves... I think it was the 650bzi's that had done this...

First they came for the singlespeeders,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a singlespeeder.

Then they came for the fatbikers,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a fatbiker.

Then they came for the 29ers,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a 29er.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.

Etc.