[Closed] Are 29ers now the unwanted child of the bike world?

Yes, it's rather perverse that just as the bike designers got the hang of how to design great 29ers the punters seemed to loose interest. Still, as you say, it does mean there are some great bargains out there.

Some 29ers on the classifieds are absolute steals! Finding it hard to resist...

No, I'd suggest that 'good' 29ers are alive and well and in demand, poor 29er's like most poor bikes will always need 'deals' to sell them

^^ This.
Some 29ers are fantastic, some are crap. The same thing with 650b. All big players (apart from Giant..) have got 29ers in the range. Big discounts on less popular bikes. Around my way its 95% 29ers.

Are a lot of Gnarrmac/gravel/adventure bikes not dressed up 29ers ?

I was chatting to the guy from Orange at a recent demo day and he admitted that thier 29ers didn't sell that well, despite the fact that they were favourites at the factory and almost everybody who tested them seemed to like them (but still bought a Five or an Alpine). Maybe Orange just can't make a good 29er, but I suspect there is something else going on.

Is this a "good" 29er? http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/pivot-les-carbon-29er
Cos I want it so badly!

roverpig

Maybe Orange just can't make a good 29er, but I suspect there is something else going on.

Look at the massive way the industry has thrown it's weight behind 27.5+ (another unproven standard). It seems highly unlikely that there's been any hard science behind this, rather they've seen that fat bikes sell well, and 650b/27.5 sell well, so okay, lets smash them together and cash in.

It does cover a lot of the 29er target market though. Someone who's looking for a bike that's comfortable, grippy and stable and who isn't going to be shredding too much gnar will achieve something similar with both standards.

From an industry point of view, I imagine there's probably some cost saving or potential for streamlining. If they could eliminate 26" and 29" and only leave 650b and 650b+ then they'd potentially have to make less variations of frame, fork, rim, spoke etc etc.

29ers still have a reputation for being XC race bikes and suffer from their old internet criticisms that they are too long and cant turn corners.

Some brands are producing bikes that challenge the reputation and criticism but lots of people aren't listening.

I suspect that was one of Orange's problems

Could it be that the industry has thrown so many variants at the wall in the hpoe that some will stick, causing buyers who intend to keep bikes for more that a couple of years hunker down and wait for the dust to settle.

29 is the next 26

29ers still have a reputation for being XC race bikes and suffer from their old internet criticisms that they are too long and cant turn corners.

Most if not all modern bikes feel a little ponderous to me. That's not always a bad thing, it makes them more capable in more situations, but as someone raised on early 90s Konas which steer like lightning and accelerate like rocketships (ie are fun but flighty) maybe I'm rather biased.
I've decided to stay 26in. I don't care what's 'best' but I know what I like. I did the same as everyone else and went for longer and slacker for a few years but I'm now going shorter and steeper because I prefer the quick handling

I think 29ers are only just finding their feet with the more recent slack, long reach, short rear breed like the smuggler, following etc. Certainly I wouldn't have gone for a full sus 29er until I looked at the Smuggler.

But this is a very fashion led sport and 29ers just aren't as cool as a 650b mince tank, I'm sure many people don't buy 29ers because they don't want to be that guy being weird on a 29er in their group of mates on 650b carbon santa cruz's.

Or it could just be that 2016 bikes are out now and there are bargains to be had on last years remaining stock .

Are a lot of Gnarrmac/gravel/adventure bikes not dressed up 29ers ?

Naaaa.

'Gravel' Bikes originated in the USA as CX bikes with smaller clearances and angles closer to those of racing bikes, a kind of hybrid between CX and road bikes. The idea was bikes for racing and touring on gravel roads which are comparable to fire roads in UK forests, except forests in the USA cover tens of thousands of square miles.

Depending on which brand/marketing department you follow it's been applied to everything from lightweight tourers to what was jokingly called 'monster cross' (XC bike angles and wheels and a CX bike's bar/stem/brakes and short relative to MTB top tube).

29ers are just mountainbikes of any variety with bigger wheels.

I've never really found the criticism that 29ers are slow XC bikes to hold true. The big wheels make rocky trails much easier roll over, and the good ones were no slower steering than any other bike unless you compared apples and oranges with something like a 24/26" jump bike and a Codine (which in itself is no slower steering than something like a 26" Enduro).

I was genuinely surprised by the number of 29ers at the PMBA race on Sunday.

Some riders are still just realising how fast they can be, I reckon.

Ssuk champs was predominantly 29er, but then ss niche wierdos were riding big wheels years before the mainstream even really clocked onto the idea and some tollah shaped niche wierdos where on 650b pacenti shod indy fabs when everyone else thought it was a daft idea bloomin years ago...you mainstream boys are just fashion sheep. 29er will still keep trundling along happily for years yet*

*it may smell of rare beer and odd cheese with a hint of beard oil...but it will still keep trundling*

bigjim

But this is a very fashion led sport and 29ers just aren't as cool as a 650b mince tank, I'm sure many people don't buy 29ers because they don't want to be that guy being weird on a 29er in their group of mates on 650b carbon santa cruz's.

Can't say I agree with that part. When 650b was coming out there will have been many more 29ers on the trail than 650b. So not wanting to be the weird guy, in that context can't make sense.

29ers make sense for some people, but they can't re-write physics. I think it's been proven beyond all doubt that for an average sized rider, even in the context of XC there is no measurable benefit from them that isn't offset by the benefits of a better fitting, better handling bike.

Who cares? if people are too stupid/proud to try the latest generation of "properly" designed 29ers that's their loss. I for one wouldn't have anything else, and I certainly wouldn't want big balloon tyres that inevitably would get torn to shreds in the Lakes. I doubt 29ers will just disappear

I think it's been proven beyond all doubt that for an average sized rider, even in the context of XC there is no measurable benefit from them that isn't offset by the benefits of a better fitting, better handling bike.

That's quite a statement. Link to said proof? Are most XC racers not on 29ers?

bigjim

That's quite a statement. Link to said proof? Are most XC racers not on 29ers?

World Cup overall, mens World Champ and Womens World Champ, all on 650b.

as someone raised on early 90s Konas which steer like lightning and accelerate like rocketships (ie are fun but flighty) maybe I'm rather biased.

My Salsa, with its 71 degree HA, is exactly as responsive as those bikes used to be. Perhaps even more.

I'll be down in Fboro with it next week and the week after if you want a go 🙂

No

cynic-al - Member
29 is the next 26

You mean I've got 2 out of date bikes now?

Oh the shame 😳

You mean I've got 2 out of date bikes now?

Oh the shame

This 😳

I buy a bike about once every 5 years - so I'll be on my 29er for a while yet...

World Cup overall, mens World Champ and Womens World Champ, all on 650b.

but how much pressure are they getting from their sponsors to rid that size - what size would they ride if the choice was down to them ?

A lot of pro golfers play clubs with a cavity back - which is a game improvement feature that the manufacturers want to promote. Out of choice they would very probably play forged blades, and if they are a big enough star to dictate then they do.

I'm still loving my 29er's...and looking at replacing one with another 😳 :oops:will I be hung? lol

You buy a 650b when you want to be somebody.

You buy a 29er when you know who you are.

As with most things in life it's an image thing. Pretty sure 29ers are seen as abit square and 650b are sexy.

jimjam - Member

World Cup overall, mens World Champ and Womens World Champ, all on 650b.

Though, to be fair if schurter was on a 29er he'd probably still be winning. He genuinely does seem to prefer 650b, though.

I think 29ers'll always suffer from the fact that when they first started to get major attention, too many of them sucked balls, and all the early focus was on XC. I rode an old KHS full suss, it was pish, luckily I judged it as a bike not as a wheelsize so it didn't put me off... If you ride a great one- the Five or Remedy frinstance- they're ridiculously good. Best Orange I've ever ridden. But getting people on them in the first place is harder, and it took a long time to get there. And even now I reckon many companies would struggle to actually deliver a good one.

Bottom line... They created the interest in bigger wheels, but it was too big and scary a change for most. 650b offered the perfect combination- a bit of novelty to encourage people to buy new things, but with a change so trivial that nobody was scared of it. Lots of people disliked the change, because of the forced obsolesence of existing bikes but nobody dislikes the wheelsize, because it rides so similiarly to 26. Basically it's the conflict between difference and familiarity.

Links to these 29er deals please?

I like PP's comment about 90's Konas because that's still my favourite 'feel' on an mtb. Recently I bought a new mtb and wanted to go back to basics with riding and just get something with short travel that's nippy and very much an xc bike rather like my first proper mtb a 90's explosif. Something you can just go out and ride up everything on and then push far too hard and scare yourself on the way back down.

ended up with a 29er hardtail, steep HA, short forks and a flat bar. Feels very similar, just a little faster at times.

LOL at mince tank

http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/

29er deals aplenty.......but it would appear that there is more 27.5 deals 😕

Yep, certainly better 27.5 deals on Paul's cycles than 29ers.
Any other links?

Evans had some great deals for the BMC 29ers. I got mine used but it was nice that the drop in used prices pushed the used price down 😀

I’ve converted to a 29” FS this year and whilst it is more competent in every way than the 26” that it replaced it can take the thrill out of sections that would previously had by backside squeaking. It doesn’t handle so well at very low speeds and is a bitch to get in the shed.

Would I swap it for an equivalent 26” version? No.

Ssuk champs was predominantly 29er,

Next year there will be a retro category for steel 26 er

I should easily win this race of one rider

Hardly saw any and I brought two 😉

I think that 29ers look and feel a little weird if you're used to 26ers. It certainly took me a while to get used to the idea of a 130mm 29er replacing a 160mm all mountain beast.

The bike I chose is just an excellent bike, period. It fits me just fine, climbs well, descends well and is beautifully balanced. It is genuinely the best bike I've ever ridden, the fact that it has 29" wheels is incidental.

I don't think we'll ever see 29ers die out, we've seen some truly groundbreaking designs from the likes of Specialized, Pivot et al that defy classification and don't alienate those coming over from smaller wheeled machinery.

As for 27.5...well, I've expressed my feelings toward the industry often enough on here for them to be no surprise to anyone. It's clear that manufacturers are looking for the next niche thing to reinvigorate the market and sell as many mountain bikes as were sold in the 90s heydays, but I believe the constant reinvention of standards will bring about the opposite effect.

[i]Next year there will be a retro category for steel 26 er[/i]

I've got 2 of those! (Only 1 is SS though)

orld Cup overall, mens World Champ and Womens World Champ, all on 650b.

Not sure three sponsored riders winning counts as proof beyond doubt 😆

Well one of my two 'out of date' bikes is certainly retro* and is indeed ss.

*1990 steel framed Fisher.

From an industry point of view, I imagine there's probably some cost saving or potential for streamlining. If they could eliminate 26" and 29" and only leave 650b and 650b+ then they'd potentially have to make less variations of frame, fork, rim, spoke etc etc.

That makes little sense… if they wanted to minimise variations in kit and frames then they for for 29er and 650b+ only.

bigjim

Not sure three sponsored riders winning counts as proof beyond doubt

The word you're looking for though is dominating, not winning. But my point is this, the percieved benefits of 29 particularly in relation to XC can be negated by rider fitness and skill, so is there a benefit? Does it even exist at all if Schurter and Prevot are crushing everyone on 650b?

Accepted logic is that 29ers are best for XC and yet Prevot and Schurter crushed the field on 650b.

I believe I am right in saying Nino said he felt 29ers were fastest in test the swiss Olympic team did but it was impossible for him to get his desired position on one.

orld Cup overall, mens World Champ and Womens World Champ, all on 650b.
Not sure three sponsored riders winning counts as proof beyond doubt

I agree, however playing that game then Womens EWS champ is on 29er and Im sure she could be on the 650b version if she wanted to

[img] [/img]

Next year there will be a retro category for steel 26 er

I've got 2 of those! (Only 1 is SS though)

Starts training

Were you there this year ?

I agree, however playing that game then Womens EWS champ is on 29er and Im sure she could be on the 650b version if she wanted to

Yep, and I'm sure the Moseleys and Schurters of this world could also still win on 26" and even 31", exceptional top level athletes winning isn't proof beyond all doubt that one wheel size is 'superior' to another. Curtis keene seemed to be doing better when he was on the 29er, I think Justin Leov won tweedlove EWS on a 29er. I'm sure someone somewhere is still very fast on a 26er, Graves was still winning on 26" when most of the others were on 650b. Citing individual elite riders as proof x wheel size or bike is the best/fastest is meaningless.

I'm a distinctly average rider so I'll take all the help I can get and for xc riding like many others I really like the feel of the roll over of 29ers, I have not felt a change in this feel since Schurter won on 650b.

Accepted logic is that 29ers are best for XC and yet Prevot and Schurter crushed the field on 650b.

Well Neff won almost everything XC on a 29er I think. Wonder how much choice PFP got from Liv/Giant given their push for 650b? I don't think there's actually a 29er in the Liv range.

Accepted logic is that 29ers are best for XC and yet Prevot and Schurter crushed the field on 650b.

Would seem to me to depend rather a lot on the course...?

I've tried a couple of 650bs and they just felt like 26ers to me. I guess thats the appeal?

29er for me I think, although my interest is 650b+ is piqued since I'm a fan of big, low pressure rubber.

There is so much focus on 650b at the moment I do worry that the more agro side of 29er riding will be neglected, and my next choice of bike, whenever that comes, will be restricted.

Manufacturers will only make what they can sell after all.

Back in March I was wondering if I was faster on my soul 26" or Solaris 29" so I did two days back to back at sherwod two laps of the red measured with a garmin 800 , average speed on the Solaris 15kph , on the soul 15.1kph so close as to be insignificant , but i have now sold the soul , I find a 29er less wearing over longer rides . As for the pros , I think it is as much about feel and confidence that a given set up offers , that then allows them to perform ? .

Would seem to me to depend rather a lot on the course...?

Does it? I've not seen any analysis of finishing order across the range of World Cup courses and how it's influenced by wheel size being ridden, but I'd be surprised if wheel size was a significant factor.

[i]Were you there this year ?[/i]

Ooh, no, not me. Competition ain't my thing.

My 29er is unloved. I took the road bike today. I can hear it sobbing quietly in the garage.

As a hardtail/rigid rider 29ers really do make the most sense to me. I went back to a 26er (with 2.5in tyres) for a few rides last year and you can really feel the difference when things get rough.

However, if i was to buy a full suss (150mm+) I think I would probably end up with 650B.

Ooh, no, not me. Competition ain't my thing.

Its starts with them hiding your bike and one gets to have two beers per lap

I moved from 26 to 29 and love it but I'm not sure how much is the 40mm increase in travel, more aggressive geometry, wider bars, longer top tube, flat pedals and generally better quality parts and how much is the wheels.

but I'd be surprised if wheel size was a significant factor

On twisty courses, I find myself powering out of corners a lot to get up to speed. This is easier with wheels that are both lighter and smaller, I reckon.

So if your course is twisty, it might help to have smaller wheels.

Bike biz marketing is aimed squarely at the masses and they just happen to be all over 650b/+ right now.

Those that know, know that evo 29ers are weapons for downhill and aren't bad at going back up either (the slack, long, low, but short-at-the-back ones anyway).

This breed of 29er will stay underground for now, which is not such a bad thing, but it won't disappear.

On twisty courses, I find myself powering out of corners a lot to get up to speed. This is easier with wheels that are both lighter and smaller, I reckon.

So if your course is twisty, it might help to have smaller wheels.

I think you're right but I think it's also just something you get used too and it evens out after a while, more or less whn the 'new bike wooooo!' excitement dies down.

That said it's taking a long time to die down with my new 29er hardtail - just feels absolutely right for me. Dare say there is a 650b out there that'd feel more or less the same, but I can't test ride everything.

I've got one 26" and one 29", a soul and a scandal.

The scandal is more fun and playful, and you can wrangle it more whereas the scandal has a more perched on top feel, which is fine for smooth xc and easy off road, but I'm not so keen on the rough stuff.

Regarding racing, I'm totally down with the possibility that the benefit of big wheels is less for better riders... Elite enduro dudes can just hover down the trails. But for me, it makes a big difference in steamrollering into things. I'm a wee bit faster overall but mostly I can ride the same sections in better shape, much less fatiguing over long stages/sections.

What works for pros isn't the acme of what makes a good regular person bike, that's basically just advertising. IIRC 29er remains the most winningey wheelsize for EWS though 😉

core - Member

The scandal is more fun and playful, and you can wrangle it more whereas the scandal has a more perched on top feel, which is fine for smooth xc and easy off road, but I'm not so keen on the rough stuff.

I think you might feel teh same with a 26er Scandal, mind- I went from a 26er Scandal to a Soul and that's exactly how it felt.

My 21lb carbon 29er xc race bike feels much slower than my old 26er anthem which was also heavier...

so much so that I regularly stop to check if the brakes are rubbing...unfortunately they aren't.

the wheels, despite not being overly heavy or cheap just feel far more sluggish than a 26er.

the wheels, despite not being overly heavy or cheap just feel far more sluggish than a 26er.

I think my new bike feels slower. But Strava and my regular riding buddy tell me otherwise, he's of the opinion it's cheating 🙂 (till he buys one of course)

29ers have a bit of a roadie image with the shared wheel size and the fact that plenty of skinny wheelers bought into them at the start whilst the rest of us wanted to wait and see how things panned out.

Hence lots of roadie based jokes towards anyone on big wheels which has created a bit of an image problem. I've.never gelled as quickly with a bike as my Codeine and never had one fit so well, but I'll still take the piss out of anyone riding one (myself included).

I'll be gutted if they disappear.

I don't think any of the main 3 sizes will disappear ( in terms of parts at least ) , we used to just buy a "mountain bike" , and ride every thing on it , now we have the chance to buy so many fantastic bikes that have really been thought about in terms of their area of use , Even if I still like riding my 26" fully rigid (only to work though)

29er HT to start with made my 26fs feel like a slug, so much so I'd loathe going out on it. Now got a 29er FS and bifocal is it fast. Only really notice the big wheels on tight nadgery stuff but speed and roll-ability more than make up for that. 29 all the way for me.

650b is for people that can't ride 29ers properly..........(that's a joke everybody, each to their own as far as I'm concerned)

....... 650b/27.5 sell well, so okay, lets smash them together and cash in.

...........

From an industry point of view, I imagine there's probably some cost saving or potential for streamlining. If they could eliminate 26" and 29" and only leave 650b and 650b+ then they'd potentially have to make less variations of frame, fork, rim, spoke etc etc.

Except for the fact that the reasoning behind 27+ is exactly that it will fit in a lot of existing 29" frames...

I had a chat a few months ago with the shop manager of one of London's main chains and he said 29 had never taken off as much as had been hoped - hence 27.5 being introduced with so much hype - closer to the 26 that we all knew and loved but with the easy rolling advantages of 29...

I wouldn't underestimate the growth of road combined with people feeling less wealthy than they used to either - this will have swallowed up demand for N+1 that 29 represented when it came out.

You can get a very good road bike for £2k and cost of upkeep is far far lower than an MTB - parts last longer and you don't have to drive for miles to go for a ride which saves ££ on petrol.

I'm just about to buy a brand new 26 inch bike.
Straight, narrow steerer too.

I think touring rims will be available for a while, as will decent steel road forks.

Sam - Member

Except for the fact that the reasoning behind 27+ is exactly that it will fit in a lot of existing 29" frames...

Don't worry, they've invented a new axle size to stamp out this sort of madness

Managed to pick up a new Specialized Camber Evo 29 for Abigale down from £2200 to £1350. Some great deals out there.

I love my Transition Covert 29er and simply don't recognise or notice the much lauded downsides of the larger wheels. Maybe that is more of a reflection on my riding skill than anything, but I love it anyway and the only bike on the horizon I can see tempting me away from it is the Rocket 29er (C'mon Cy!! just do it). I actually think that it is a horses for courses sort of thing and we'll probably end up with two or three wheel sizes for different sectors of the sport. It is unlikely that 29ers will take over DH unless the nature of DH courses change to favour the larger wheels, but it seems pure XC has now settled on the 29er wheel size. And for those two extremes of the sport it makes perfect sense.

But there is another point of view depending upon how cynical you are on the bike manufacturing industry. 29ers were being pushed by manufacturers trying to exploit the benefits of the larger wheels (trying new things, pushing the envelope etc, that's what they do), but the public were sceptical, thought they knew best, and didn't accept them dismissing them as a marketing exercise aimed at parting 'gulliable' cyclists from their hard earned cash (shock horror, manufacturers trying to sell their wares!!). This was, in fact, a gift to the manufacturers as they are now able to push the interim 650b's and once the public accept the notion of larger than 26" wheels and appreciate the benefits, and maybe adjust their riding style to suit the larger wheels, they can press ahead again with 29ers in a few years, so instead of selling you 1 bike to get to 29" they'll sell you 2 bikes. Who's the winner there?

Out on the trails i've certainly noticed an attitude change. I've been riding 29ers for 3.5 years now and initially people I got chatting to out on the trails were sceptical and dismissive, these days they seem far more interested and curious and the negative comments around the different look of the bike (clown wheels etc.) have turned into compliments of the look of my bike. Maybe it's just people being polite, but I sense a change in attitude towards the larger wheeled bikes. So I say if there are great 29er deals around then take advantage while you can, if for no other reason to give them a try. Give it a few years and you might very well be back in vogue.

Don't worry, they've invented a new axle size to stamp out this sort of madness

Well, you just need to find a good bike manufacturer which doesn't go in for that sort of pointless frippery... 😉

Still love my 29er hardtail, I'm getting a new full sus next year which will also be a 29er. I tried them out long after the fad phase, so by that point they had sorted out the geometry and ride. I'm totally sold on the clown wheels now.

I think the only thing holding back sales (if they have dropped off) is that it isn't a new thing any more. That and the preaching naysayers who still haven't tried a good 29er still obsessing about 12.65% drop in "flickability" 🙄

New Pivot 429,Yeti SB45, Pyga Stage / Stage Max all look alright to me - suggests 29 ain't dead to me......

my 26er is still going so I'm hoping they don't get totally killed off by the time I go for my next bike in a few years time, I want a HT with big wheels and 1x11 as that makes sense for my riding needs

I would imagine that if no manufacturer plonks the right thing on the market I'll build myself (I think I may do this anyway)

I must admit I was slow to adopt the wagon wheels as I pretty much believed the 'they are only for xc' or 'they only suit those really tall riders' (I'm 5'11 and a half).

When I did actually try one I ended up buying a similar model. It was intended to be mainly for mile munching xc duties but it ended up being my go to bike.

I'm now on my second 29er ht and although similar to the first, they are still very different. I seem to get on with all the big wheeled bikes I've tried(not just the 2 I've owned).

They feel very natural to me. So I will stick with them as long as they can be found.

I tried a 29er (Orbea Occam 2016) for the first time at the weekend, been on 26er's for the past twenty odd years. Handled just as well in the twisty stuff and downhill is so much more stable. It has the 'new' geometry and I loved it so much I have ordered one. Pick up from slower speeds is noticeable but the wheels on the demo were heavy. Be great with some carbon rims......so I'll get top money for my turner nitrous frame with 1 1/8 headtube and 135mm rear end?.