[Closed] Anyone who rides a bike on the road should read this from WM Police.

It's also doing the rounds over FB a bit at the moment too, once piece of advice if you want to stay sane is to not read the comments, you'll either get depressed or enter into an online war which makes the arguments on here pale into insignificance 🙁

But I am glad it's doing the rounds, and that more robust people than me are taking the time to challenge it in the FB comments.

Yeah my FB notifications have gone mental after correcting a few on there earlier, I've not looked since

Was on the news earlier, when asked what the minimum safe overtaking distance between a bike and a car is some old dear replied 2 feet 😯 , many cyclist didn't know either!

My mate got knocked off at a junction earlier this week and is still recovering. He shared this article and even his bloody mates started going on about road tax and "...pricks who cycle two abreast", etc. I waded in with a swift, one paragraph rebuttal and had to turn off notifications on that post. Depressing is not the word.

I do always feel a sort of responsibility to educate but it really, really is a massive waste of time.

We got hit whilst riding our tandem back from a ten mile tt yesterday Had my foot hit by an old git driving a
Peugeot reg RY53PPX in the Newbury area .All the police will do is send him a producer ,they wont even visit him.He needs he needs his license revoking and his car crushing

Read the blog interesting indeed. Have to say I hate riding on the road.

[img] [/img]

Quite fitting that they are using a beemer in the picture 😀

Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents (RoSPA) road safety manager Nick Lloyd said: "Ideally cyclists would not need to mingle with traffic on the roads, and a lot is being invested in road infrastructure to make this a reality."

Indeed, we have cycle paths like the one between Leatherhead and Dorking (A24) which allows cyclists avoid mingling with traffic....oh wait! 😕

We climbed a bit of road from the A6 towards chesterfield to link a couple of bits of trail on Saturday. A middle aged couple in their garden were overheard saying "i don't know why so many of them (cyclists) come up here, it's so dangerous for them.

To my mind, that's the root of the problem. People think the "danger" should be avoided rather than resolved. After all, if you had a nice little house in the country, wouldn't you rather clean quiet cyclists going up and down the road rather than noisy dirty cars.

If the bike in the pic had fashionable 800mm handlebars, that picture would look quite different.

Or if the car was a Chelsea tractor.

That image would indicate that the bare minimum width for a cycle lane would be 2.25m. During my commute I cycle along a number of roads where the 'cycle lane' is significantly less than that - in fact it's probably less than 1m wide in a lot of places especially when you take into account wheel swallowing potholes.

To my mind this sends a dangerous message to motorists, even if they stay out of the cycle lane (and that's a big if) they go sailing past inches away from clipping someones handlebars.

There should be a minimum cycle lane of 1m then a hatched area of 1m then a SOLID white line. Anything less than that and it's more dangerous than mixing it with the cars.

[url= https://www.google.co.uk/maps/ @51.7844399,-1.2687416,3a,75y,353.36h,82.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRq55rXQafKW08Sl_RgLncQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en]This[/url] is a favourite part, cycle lane squeezed to <0.5m, traffic island squeezing cars in, it's lucky there's a droped kerb to hop onto the pavement!

Spot on - WMP are clearly far more progressive and with it than the vast majority of planners creating bike lanes.

If the bike in the pic had fashionable 800mm handlebars, that picture would look quite different.

To my mind, that's the root of the problem. People think the "danger" should be avoided rather than resolved.

This is exactly what winds me up whenever I end up discussing it with people who don't ride bikes 🙁

- It's too dangerous to cycle on the roads, I don't know how you do it
= [i]Why is it dangerous?[/i]
- All the cars of course
= [i]But you drive, you're a safe driver aren't you?[/i]
- Yes of course I am!
= [i]And you're pretty normal aren't you, so most people must be relatively safe drivers?[/i]
- Well yes, but there are a lot of bad ones!
= [i]So are you suggesting that *most* drivers are unsafe? Shouldn't we do something about that?[/i]
- Well no, not most... but the dangerous ones make it unsafe!
= [i]Ok, so you say most drivers are safe, like you, but there's a few bad ones and they shouldn't be driving dangerously anyway?[/i]
- Yes
= [i]So it's just a few bad and dangerous drivers that make it unsafe?[/i]
- Yes exactly!
= [i]And aren't bad and dangerous drivers a danger to pedestrians and other drivers too?[/i]
- Yes....
= [i]So if there are only a few, and they are dangerous to everyone wouldn't it be better to fix *that* rather than tell the very large numbers of other users to not be in their way?[/i]
- Erm...

And you can imagine how it proceeds from there...

Not to mention the fallacy a lot of people commit of thinking they are safer drivers than they are and that it's everyone else who presents the danger.

That image would indicate that the bare minimum width for a cycle lane would be 2.25m. During my commute I cycle along a number of roads where the 'cycle lane' is significantly less than that - in fact it's probably less than 1m wide in a lot of places especially when you take into account wheel swallowing potholes.

Its self fulfilling isn't it. If drivers drove with sufficient respect for cyclists you wouldn't need the cycle lane. If the cycle lane is badly design - and many are catastrophically bad - then rather than protect the cyclist it affirms the poor driving.

We've now had a good decade or so of piss poor cycling practice painted directly onto the roads in green paint -doing nothing to help or protect cyclists and pretty much preaching exactly the opposite message WMP are trying to make.

Its absolutely lordable that WMP are doing what they are doing but even if all the forces in the UK joined them in voice and action it seems an impossible task for them to reverse even a fraction of the ill-effects of years and years, and millions of pounds worth of idiotic shit that us cyclists have (seemingly) lobbied for.

If the police in this instance are aware of the issue - its great that they're getting prosecute-y with the driving public. How about they turn some of their attention on the designers and managers of road infracutrure too - identify dangerously designed infrastructure and enforce change.

How about they turn some of their attention on the designers and managers of road infrastructure too - identify dangerously designed infrastructure and enforce change

I get the point you are making, but the Police don't have that power. And that's the wider problem - national and local government/authorities set the standards for driving and infrastructure design and expect the Police/courts to then deal with the outcome, all on diminishing budgets and with no apparent feedback loop built in to learn from mistakes or best practice.

Slightly more footage here:
http://www.itv.com/news/central/update/2016-09-16/police-catch-drivers-going-too-close-to-cyclists-in-covert-sting/

1.5m is the law?

No, there's no legal minimum passing distance but it is the minimum recommended by the DoT.

So the itv report is totally misleading.

So the itv report is totally misleading.

Not quite. There's no defined 1.5m limit in the road traffic act. But WMP are using the "driving without due care" charge and saying that anyone driving less than 1.5m away from a cyclist is driving without due care, so breaking the law.

They may have taken it from the Irish campaign for minimum distance passing 'stayin alive at 1.5'

Difficult one for me, i applaud any action that the Police takes to make it safer for cyclists, but i seem to remember similar campaigns, can anyone remember one called "SMIDSY" Sorry, i didn't see you mate? Which was to highlight vulnerable road users at junctions?

It is a difficult one to enforce and i think what there needs to be is a wholesale re-think of cycling in this country and it needs to be across the board with hard hitting campaigns from the Police, town planners including cycling (and pedestrians) in new road and town design, consulting cycle groups when adapting existing road structure etc. My local council seem to feel painting a white line down the centre of pavements turns it into a decent cycle path.

I personally feel on the biggest issues at the moment is this "them and us" attitude made worse by social media, cycling magazines and C*ck-wombles like Jeremy Clarkson. Every road website like road.cc seems to have video after video of bad drivers, social media the same and you see the comments after them are often pure vitriol from both sides.

There needs to be:
- Real sentences and prosecutions for drivers who injure cyclists, fed up of seeing cyclists killed and that driver got 3 years and a fine.
- Education, driving lessons and the test need to include how to act around cyclists, runners, horses etc (as well as driving at night and in the rain)
- Like cigarette packets, they need to see the consequences of the accident, the injuries suffered, the mangled bike and that cyclists have a family.
- On the flip side, cycle clubs and children at school should be educated about to ride on different types of road in different types of traffic.

Things won't change in this country i don't think unless there is real change to town/ road planning, educating both sides and stopping this conflict perpetuated in the media that is has to one group against the other.

fed up of seeing cyclists killed and that driver got [s]3 years and[/s] a fine and six points.

@scud The problem with media reporting these days is that it has to be dramatic, eye-catching, clickbait. A newspaper or TV website is happy for all the vitriolic comments as it means there's more chance of someone clicking on one of the ads. A reasoned narrative just isn't on the agenda.

There are kids cycle clubs at schools where they are taught about riding on the roads so it does happen but perhaps not enough. I was out walking during my lunch break a few weeks ago and overheard a couple of women talking about their kids doing such training. "But they teach them to ride two abreast" said one in horror!

One "punishment" that could be handed out is making the offender bike to and from work then they'd begin to realise just how bad most driving is and perhaps do something about it. Someone mentioned that the West Midlands traffic police tend to bike to work, it needs more people with clout like councillors, judges, magistrates, MPs to do this and *then* something will start to get done.

The problem with this

On the flip side, cycle clubs and children at school should be educated about to ride on different types of road in different types of traffic.

Unfortunately, about 50% of drivers will swear blind that the Highway Code says cyclists have to ride in the gutter.

So kids are taught to ride out and get in the way, while their parents dish out punishment passes to cyclists who do that. When drivers call for education and testing for cyclists it's because they think that that means cyclists will "learn" to hug the kerb and jump out of the way when a driver approaches them. Just like "Share the road" to a cyclist means "give me space, overtake safely" while to a driver it means "Oi cyclist, get out of my way".

Have to say that when my lad did Bikeability in Year 5 I was really impressed at the advice about primary and positioning in general. Much more positive and assertive than I expected.

Bikeability for mini aracer next week - will be interesting to see how it goes. Just hoping he's not going to be too cocky and spend his time doing wheelies and riding one handed.

Well for all of us cynical about this initiative actually resulting in action, it seems they are doing something:
https://twitter.com/Trafficwmp/status/780483588630405123

...though if you read on, it seems these are from incidents reported by people with camera footage, not from their new initiative, so if you live in the WMP area, have a camera and get a close pass, get sending your footage in!

though if you read on, it seems these are from incidents reported by people with camera footage, not from their new initiative

Their link to info about recording on a camera is pretty innovative.
I'm impressed:
https://t.co/5iLSbLt8p4

(although I can see a lot of people thinking it's one step too far)

Bumping this thread due to relevance - this is why we have cams on the bike:

Close pass 2 days out of the 3 I rode last week by this same van... should I send to the police?

I would, chances are they are doing it to every cyclist.

Report it. If you don't try, nothing will change.

Nice to see WMP being so open about what they are trying to achieve, but also some of the problems they face in doing so.

Report +1

The police will definitely take no action if you don't.

The aggressive beeping at you is an offence in itself. Report.

Morning! Yeah, the shitty letter wwaswas posted at bottom of page 1 sort of puts me off (it's gone now, but was Hants Police basically saying they couldn't be arsed). Probably should, as you say though.
Is the duff near-side mirror also an offense?

On the subject of bike ability and cycling proficiency at schools, they should make it a requirement that the parents have to attend as well.

Or going by the argumentative tossers on the school run. Attend a different course. So the kids don't have to see what unpleasant arseholes most adults are and so the kids actually get to learn something rather than listening to some driving god banging on about something they only have a vague grasp of.

I've checked on the Hampshire cops website and they will only do something if it's a repeated offence, so I'm not going to report the van. I deleted the other video, so only have evidence of one incident.

Dez. He will have done this before to others. Maybe he's already been reported, in which case your evidence could be what's needed to get this guy dealt with.

Even if it hasn't, you submit this now and next time he does it and someone reports he'll be dealt with then.

So either way pls report it and help keep all us Hampshire riders safe from this muppet.

Right, emotional blackmail bit over [but please report it :-)]

dez report it yours may be the one that tips the scales and makes it a repeated offence.

And if Hants Police do nothing refer them to the WMP articles....

I've checked on the Hampshire cops website and they will only do something if it's a repeated offence, so I'm not going to report the van.

Close pass 2 days out of the 3 I rode last week by this same van...

Sounds like a repeated offence to me.

Report it now and then again next time he does it Dezza.

Definitely report that DezB. I recently reported a close pass (wing mirror scuffed my jacket). GoPro footage passed to police. Few weeks later got letter saying they were passing to Proc Fiscal (I'm in Scotland) looking for prosecution - can't recall the offence mentioned. I was surprised but encouraged.

Saying that, I'm unsure what the outcome was for this driver who took me out (aptly given the main topic of WMP's blog) at a junction 12 months ago, I enquired but got fed up asking for the outcome:

I'll give em a ring when I get home. If they're not interested I'll email the copper I used to play footy with. He'll go and give em a dig or 2 😉

I've checked on the Hampshire cops website and they will only do something if it's a repeated offence,

They can consider this the first record of the driver's repeated offences . You could maybe ask them how and when they intend to review their policy in the light of WMP's now much publicised initiatives at the same time. I'm not sure why road safety should be a postcode lottery.

Reported - untaxed, unmoted van, registered 150miles away. Guessing they won't be able to track him down...

[quote=DezB ]Reported - untaxed, unmoted van, registered 150miles away. Guessing they won't be able to track him down...

in which case, since he's passed you that close twice this week, perhaps having someone in that area around the time you normally pass through might bag them an easy collar

untaxed, unmoted van, registered 150miles away. Guessing they won't be able to track him down...

Dammit - I went to all the trouble of training for and obtaining a career in international diplomacy just so I could declare immunity whenever I behaved like a prick - turns out all I needed to do was forget to renew my MOT. Its the perfect crime. 🙂

You certain of that plate?
Looks like HVP or HVF ?
Either way that bloke needs his licence revoking. That is a deliberate aim at the cyclist , and its not as if it was a timing error and there was an oncoming vehicle that he either could ne be arsed to slow down for, or the oncoming vehice was going very fast so appeared very quickly. The other side of the road is empty.
Where's Chuck Norris / Jack Reacher when you need them most?

Definitely the right plate. The pass was even closer on Weds morning, which is why I remembered the busted mirror.
If they do find him, he loses the van, so at least there's that.

Funnily enough, as I turned right shortly after that, i waved thanks to an RAC van that waited for me, and he waved back. I reckon he'd seen the pass and was kind of saying, 'we're not all like that!'

Well, I emailed my Police and Crime Commissioner (does he commission crimes?) about this with a link - and heard nothing. After a moth I sent a reminder and 2 days later got a phone call from an Inspector at the traffic division who was polite and sounded interested but said "we don't have the resources". However, I did persuade him that making the public think you are doing it is nearly as helpful as actually doing it so he agreed to talk to the press office about a possible publicity thing.
Not very encouraging really.

Apparently the [s]polis[/s] [s]Strathclyde's finest[/s] Police Scotland are planning a similar approach to WMP.

[url= http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/cops-set-crackdown-dangerous-drivers-9105575 ]Link[/url]
*Warning link contains Tory rent a quote bullshit*

Wonder if I'll spot them on my commute

Did the Police say where the van came from? I'm almost certain i've been skiffed by this van, and i'm almost cure its the same one that threw a can of beer out of the passenger window at my mate?

[quote=richmtb ]*Warning link contains Tory rent a quote bullshit*

I read it just to see what the idiot said.

Its a few years ago now, but I had had enough of the fast close passes on one ride, so I found a device by the side of the road and attached it to my bike and found it did the trick 🙂

[img] [/img]

The road I was on was quite narrow, so vehicles couldn't really get past me if something was coming the other way, but it didn't stop some of them trying!

Bare in mind, it only stuck out 6-8" more than my handlebars, but that didn't stop one A***hole still trying to get me with his wing mirror!

Did we do this one?

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/toronto-cyclist-straps-swimming-noodle-to-bike-to-keep-drivers-away-from-him-a3372861.html

Do they do an aero version?

He added drivers had wound down their windows to congratulate him on the tool

It seems that the idea is spreading:

http://road.cc/content/news/215826-close-pass-policing-could-be-rolled-out-16-forces-yours-one

I note that Hampshire Police as mentioned earlier in this thread are taking it up, whilst I'm hoping that "the information gathering stage" quote from my police force isn't just weasel words for ignoring it.

Hants police would be busy if they did this on my commute! Bet they don't bother...

DezB agreed and they were in the news yesterday crying out for more funding so can't really see it being a priority.

Shame really as some of the roads in Portsmouth and Southampton particularly are crying out for some robust roads policing generally as they are not a nice place for any road user with an ounce of sensibility (and I say that from the perspective of someone who drives on them far more hours than I ride).