[Closed] Anyone using Tubs on the road?

Basically every pro tour rider ever 😉

I did for a while, I used Conti Competitions and wouldn't again, they squared off on top very quickly, and there was quite a bump where the base tape overlapped.

Respectfully, I'd suggest that if you really don't know anything about them that you just stick with clinchers. Some reckon that tubs aren't any more hassle, but I'd disagree.

Basically every pro tour rider ever

Woukd rather have clinchers and run them tubeless but this set has come up cheap and local, but don't want more hassle or expense in the long run

Well tubs are both hastle and expensive.

You can change then at the roadside, and you can put stans in the tube to keep punctures at bay. But that's all expense and hastle compared to clinchers.

If you don’t want tubs then don't get them. Most of the advantages of tubs are down to their being 'pro' and therefore had the best casing, latex innertubes etc. Their only advantage really compared to expensive clinchers (tubeless or with latex tubes) is lightweight because the rim doesnt need to resist tyre pressure.

They're cheap 2nd hand because no one wants them outside of racing, and racers spend money on the newest/lightest/aero kit.

Recently I was gifted a good set of mavic wheels so have just got some tubs to fit them and yesterday afternoon spent a messy half hour removing the old glue from the rims.

Yes, tubs are a bit of a fanny but hopefully technology has moved on a little since when I used to ride them in the early eighties. Probably punctured about once a week back then so got very handy at sewing.

Got some Tufo S33 Pro Road Tubs from that big mail order site. These are currently stretching on the rims. Looking at reviews, they come across as being pretty puncture resistant so in combination with some sealant should provide a pretty reliable ride. Make your own mind up re cost compared with quality clinchers but I thought 18 squidley was reasonable.

In a side by side comparison the 24mm Tufo comes up a gnat's genitalia wider than 25mm Conti clinchers fitted on classic 700C Rigida rims.

Some folk say you get a better ride on tubs. Who knows? Hope this helps.

A lot of current clinchers actually roll better too, so it really is just the weight. They are definitely more hassle and expense though. If nothing else a puncture either costs £60 to replace the tyre or a lot of faff either unpicking the tube to replace or sending it off to get repaired, and you still need a spare while it's away.

Badly glued or taped tubs have higher rolling resistance than the best clinchers. Their advantage is weight, but again there is little in it.

I have tubs. Seldom us them on the fixed road bike. Open tubular with latex tubes or tubeless, every time.

New road? They’ll be wanting the precious things of the shop.

Rachel

If your heavy and prone to pinch punctures esp in road races where you can't change line, then tubs are an advantage. I switched to tubs for road racing because of this. I'm not road racing now and just riding around still on the wheel s to get the use of them. Two years on the same tufo tubs and Nae punctures. However, when they wear out I'll ditch the tubs, change the rims and go road tubeless. There is just too much fannying about with them.

Any weight advantage is offset by the spare tub you need to carry
One puncture and you're heading home, hoping that you don't get another!
Plus you can't borrow a tube to get out of trouble!
The main advantage is you can continue riding on a flat tub, but unless you're a pro with a team car following you, it's not much of an advantage

I've ridden them for years, and to be honest I don't really find them any more hassle than clinchers. Prefer the feel, puncture less often, etc. Glued, not taped as conversely I find tufo tape a PITA, and I run them with sealant although that can ball up around a puncture which you can feel every revolution with a nice, supple tub for the rest of its life. Very, very rarely I have to bin an almost-new, 80eur Velo (tbh I'd probably repair it).

But that's just me.. anyone know any pros who train on tubs? I don't.

a guy on our club ride using them last weekend. Had to call the wife out when he punctured!

My SO doesn't drive, so I carry a spare 😉

I have the option on a pair of FFWD tubs, 50mm carbon rims, perfect nick, but a ten speed hub.
I dont think I'll buy them for this reason, but otherwise I quite fancied them, they look ace, and weigh 1400g.

Some youtube channel did a test and said for feel/performance tubs are first followed by tubed clinchers then tubeless. Was suprised by the tubeless being last- was down to feel.

(I've only ridden with tubes)

Use them for racing, but only because I got the wheels cheap 2nd hand. They're a bit nicer than clinchers but I personally wouldn't bother with the hassle for everyday riding.

Open tubulars FTW. http://www.challengetech.it/info/technology/en

I have the option on a pair of FFWD tubs, 50mm carbon rims, perfect nick, but a ten speed hub.
I dont think I'll buy them for this reason,

should be (don't know the exact wheels, but a lot are) a DT free hub, easily changed

i used tubs for a couple of years for everyday riding never got a puncture

a nice clincher tyre and a latex tube is a lot less hassle though (probably)

I use tubs on my nice bike and race on them on the mountain bike.

They can be a faff, but I'm happy to glue them and repair them myself. The ride feel is lovely and I haven't punctured them badly enough Vittoria Pitstop couldn't sort it. I use open tubulars on my commuting bike though.

should be (don't know the exact wheels, but a lot are) a DT free hub, easily changed

FFWD do three options - their own hubs, DT240s and DT180s. Id be amazed if you can't get an 11 speed body for their own hub though, just need to know what it actually is.

Ok thanks, I'll contact ffwd.
I did buy one from wiggle but it didn't fit, then lost interest as I broke my collar bone.

Tubs over clinchers for me and it's not even close. I use tufos on the urban commute because punctures will happen, and they seal. Out on the open road you'll get very few punctures, so use what you want. Zero faff either way, only incontrovertible drawback is on the rare occasion that you do puncture it costs money. Repairing a punctured tub is something from a previous age.

Tubs over tubeless is a different story, not an argument I could make as I've never run tubeless on the tarmac. I suspect tubeless must be the future, even for cyclocross. I got on tubeless very early on the MTB and it seemed to take ten years before it reached widespread acceptance, and that's for a no-brainer. It will prob take triple that for the road, given how hidebound and traditional roadies are and punctures aren't that huge an issue on the road anyhow.

I tried tubs, felt lovely, punctured early and I lost the love. Currently ride tubeless.

TiRed - Member
Badly glued or taped tubs have higher rolling resistance than the best clinchers

Interesting, how?

Because there is energy loss in the tyre moving on the glue (given the glue stays flexible) - though that applies no matter how well the tyre is glued.

Exactly that.

The fastest tyre in the world is currently a tubeless Corsa Speed G+. And when you've ridden them on 25mm rims, you won't want anything else (for racing TTS anyway). Their regular G+ are also lovely.

Just replaced my first pair. Rear had multiple glass cuts, front died of a sidewall slit in a race. But 10 watts faster free speed as a minimum. About 20p/km!!!!

Tubs for racing here also, occasionally use them if I'm out for a local loop between races and can't be bothered to change over pads for less than an hour.

Rest of the time it's tubeless clinchers which have been excellent

a guy on our club ride using them last weekend. Had to call the wife out when he punctured!

Same thing happened on our club ride a few weeks back, but not before he'd showered everything within a few feet with pitstop foam 🙂

Some youtube channel did a test and said for feel/performance tubs are first followed by tubed clinchers then tubeless. Was suprised by the tubeless being last- was down to feel.

I've not ridden tubs but tubeless Pro Ones have a terrific ride quality, much nicer than clinchers IMO.

The carbon wheels video above is worth watching.

barrykellett - Member
The carbon wheels video above is worth watching.

That guy is brilliant - seen a few of his vids, I could (and have) watch him rabbit on for hours 😆

unless you are going to be riding with a support car then I would give them a miss.

unless you are going to be riding with a support car then I would give them a miss.

However did we manage before the invention of clinchers?

However did we manage before the invention of clinchers?

However did we manage before progress 🙂

Tubs are nice to ride but carrying a spare is bulky and can be hard to mount unless it's well stretched. Repairs are a faff. Fitting is quite a nice job but still a faff compared to clinchers and needs planning over a couple of days. The pitstop stuff usually leaves you looking like you've had a run in with the marshmallow man. They're also not that much nicer to ride than a decent open tub with latex tube.

But 10 watts faster free speed as a minimum

2.8W saving over a pair of their tubular versions but the rims will likely weigh 100g more each.

I race tubs most of the time on the road and have also been using Pro One tubeless for some crits which really are lovely but noticeably heavier.

Crazy to use tubs just for riding though IMO

I only use tubs .

when living in the Uk , I used them to commute everyday for nearly 3 years . maybe 3 or 4 punctures .
I use Tufo tubs glued with jantex tape . and put some sealant in them .

the Tufo s33 are cheap for a reason , much better value are the carbon ones .

I've got nothing to contribute as far as opinion on this goes, but did watch that video with the Aussie guys, and really enjoyed it, no bullshit, just decent technical expertise - quite enlightening.

[quote=leggyblonde ]2.8W saving over a pair of their tubular versions but the rims will likely weigh 100g more each.

So that's about 0.25% increase in weight - on all those occasions where you're putting out less than 1000W the tubular ones are unequivocally slower.

So that's about 0.25% increase in weight - on all those occasions where you're putting out less than 1000W the tubular ones are unequivocally slower.

You're assuming it's a linear comparison when it's not.

Assuming a linear comparison is the best case scenario for the tubs. Any non linearity will make the weight difference even less significant.

Whereas the force required to accelerate weight at the rim isn't so you can't compare linearly.

So don't compare linearly then. I was trying to simplify things - I can do proper maths if you want, but it won't come out any more in favour of the tubs.

Is the point you're making that weight at the rim counts double for acceleration? So for all those times when you have more than 500W spare going into acceleration advantage to the tubs?

I think my issue (sorry if I came across blunt, actually genuinely interested in this stuff) is that rolling resistance is key on mega flat TTs/velodromes with only one acceleration off the start but most riding isn't like that. It feels like I'd rather gain (haven't done the maths either) <3W rolling resistance but be able to accelerate or climb more easily. 2.8W is nothing, 200g rotating weight feels like a lot.

Can Rocco confirm the type of rider he is and whether he will benefit from all that applied mathematics up there or is he the typical biffer on a bike that could lose 20kg and not even notice but it's the wheels that are slowing him down?

[quote=leggyblonde ]I think my issue (sorry if I came across blunt, actually genuinely interested in this stuff) is that rolling resistance is key on mega flat TTs/velodromes with only one acceleration off the start but most riding isn't like that. It feels like I'd rather gain (haven't done the maths either) <3W rolling resistance but be able to accelerate or climb more easily. 2.8W is nothing, 200g rotating weight feels like a lot.

Which is where the numbers come in. It might "feel" like 200g rotating weight is a lot, but in reality in a proper double blind test the only way any rider would be able to tell the difference is because of the way the bike handles and/or responds to sideways movements. There is zero chance of you being able to detect the difference it makes in acceleration.

Also in reality for riding you have that 2.8W loss all the time (actually a varying amount, IIRC rolling resistance is directly proportional to speed and that 2.8W will probably be at ~20mph, but I CBA checking as it's not going to make any difference to the conclusion). The maths tells you that the extra weight will only cost you that much for a tiny, tiny fraction of your ride even if you have a very high power output.

So that 2.8W might seem like nothing, but the cost of the extra weight is even more nothing.

The maths tells you that the extra weight will only cost you that much for a tiny, tiny fraction of your ride even if you have a very high power output.

But not in a crit where you are accelerating or braking the whole time or when riding up a hill. Like you say, the numbers are the way to see.

Whilst I wouldn't countenance riding my Corsa Speeds for general road use (think tyres of 30 years ago robustness), there is no doubt that they are significantly faster than other tyres I've tried. (it's 2.8 W per wheel remember) so six free watts over the tubular variety is not to be sniffed at, if you only have 250 to play with.

the speed difference will be 1.02^1/3 = 1.0066 or 24 seconds for a one hour 25. If you are national level, assume 400 watts and the effect is 1.004 or 12 seconds for a 47 minute 25. Championships have been closer than this.

Rolling resistance is everything on a flat TT course. Aero trumps weight at 30 mph by some margin. Otherwise we'd all be riding mavic reflex not disc wheels 😉

2.8W per pair at 120psi according to the tests.

And I don't disagree with the logic on a flat TT but like I said most riding or even racing isn't a flat solo TT. There's a reason why Team Sky riders have superlight tubular climbing wheels for the key mountain stages yet Tony Martin and a few others have used Turbo Cotton clinchers with latex tubes on their flat TT wheels.

[quote=leggyblonde ]But not in a crit where you are accelerating or braking the whole time

Except the proportion of your power going into acceleration is still far less than you think - I doubt there's any point in such a race where the extra power required to accelerate the wheels is greater than the power lost due to RR.

or when riding up a hill. Like you say, the numbers are the way to see.

In which case we're back to only 0.25% difference, hence 1000W power output required before the advantage swings to the tubs.

[quote=leggyblonde ]There's a reason why Team Sky riders have superlight tubular climbing wheels for the key mountain stages

It's quite possible they're using hard track glue, hence getting rid of those extra power losses - remember they get a spare wheel if they puncture and the mechanics get to change the tub later. Though unlike mere mortals their power outputs are also high enough that the weight difference becomes more significant.

first day on clinchers in 2 months today - punctured - twice
🙄

How long did they take to fix?

11mins 37 and 11 mins 45

I am off my game big time

sweet, can you change a tub in the same time?

My friend works in a bike shop and is putting a new tub on my wheel for me. He just send me a photo of his finger with a hole in it from that job. I am very pleased not to be doing this job.

stevious - Member

My friend works in a bike shop and is putting a new tub on my wheel for me. He just send me a photo of his finger with a hole in it from that job. I am very pleased not to be doing this job.

He's doing it for me as a favour and I think it's from removing the old glue. I bought the wheels second hand with tyres already on and the previous owner was a bit keen with the adhesive I think.

That is a ballache of a job right enough. If you can bodge some way of immersing the whole rim surface in white spirit then an hour's soak would have them brand spanking. Never found a particularly good way of managing this myself, and always end up doing it bit by bit.

2.8W per pair at 120psi according to the tests.

[b]MTB-Idle - Member [/b]
sweet, can you change a tub in the same time?

but only once per ride 😕

No one's mentioned you can run flat on a tubular whereas you'd probably trash a carbon clincher rim doing the same - the main reason why pros stick with them. Carbon tubular rims are lighter and stronger. I'd only used tubs on carbon wheels for road racing, particularly due to potholes causing impact punctures on clinchers and still managed to break a few rims - I could generally get away with a pair of Vittoria CX for a season of racing. Tubulars still rule the roost in CX as you can't run clinchers at lower pressures where grip is king. The issue now is the number of 'leisure' cyclists who ride lightweight carbon wheels and expect them to have the durability of a regular wheel.

It's per wheel.

From the link you sent, 9.1-7.7 = 1.4w per wheel. so 2.8/pair.

Fair enough. Except I'm running mine at 90 PSI not 120. Interpolation makes that 1.75/wheel or 3.5 Watts. In one TT I ended up running the front one at 30 PSI for 15 miles after a puncture and still managed a PB. A tub would have seen me a lot slower 😉 . I also vastly prefer alloy rims to carbon, although my wheels are also available in tubular with alloy. The weight difference for alloy is more than made up for by the confidence in braking for those sharp 90 degree corners.

And in my last road race my team mate punctured her Corsa tub after about 20 km. She had to borrow a bike as there was no neutral service. She had to borrow a wheel the following day too because the Pit Stop would seat enough to ride but not hold any decent pressure she didn't have any tub tape.

Latex inner tubes and open tubulars every time for me on the road. Tubeless for TTs. Until Vittoria update their Corsa G+ to tubeless. THen tubeless for everything.