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If so, worth the cash? Notice the weight loss? Had any punctures?
Inner tubes? New?
Retro more like.
I presume you mean the Eclipse ultralight tubes. Nothing new here, been around for a few years now. No I havent tried them, there's something about a £45 price tag that makes me run away.
HOW MUCH?
Next they'll be selling tyres for £60 EACH. Madness I tells you.
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they were £3.99 for two until some marketing genius decided to add 'swiss made' on the box
If they are Swiss made wont they be full of holes ?
I thought the box said 'Better Fist Protection'
Must get my eyes tested! 😯
If they are Swiss made wont they be full of holes ?
And support euthanasia...
Still doesn't seem to be anyone in the UK selling the repair kit. Tempted to try them on the dh bike though, 60g for the big one and supposedly more punctureproof than a 300g dh tube, that's worth £45 if it works.
Northwind, I'm thinking the same thing.
fwiw Deal Extereme do a cheaper version, no idea how they compare to these though.
aphex_2k check your email...
The repair kits are available no troubles Northwind.
Hmm, that's helpful, cheers!
No worries Northwind - As the UK distributor of Eclipse I'm obviously biased but I have to say I'm blown away by the weight of these things.
Our resident DH monkey saved almost a lb off of his Turner DHR!
Our resident DH monkey saved almost a lb off of his Turner DHR!
Makes a lot of sense. A puncture means your race is done, regardless, so being lighter for the rest of the time makes great sense!
Can someone please tell me how they lower rolling resistance? Surely that's down to the tyre, isn't it? Unless they're talking about the rolling resistance caused by weight?
& although they may be lighter than tubeless, surely you can't run them at similarly low pressures as tubeless without the risk of pinch punctures?
Tempted to look at these for the road bike. Only 29 grams per tube.
PrinceJohn - MemberCan someone please tell me how they lower rolling resistance? Surely that's down to the tyre, isn't it? Unless they're talking about the rolling resistance caused by weight?
Same way people claim tubeless does it- takes less force to deform the tyre, since normally you're deforming sidewall + thicker inner tube.
I have no idea if it works- I can't tell any difference with tubeless.
PJ, bear in mind that with super light tubes, you can run tyres which are lighter than tubeless ones.
Double lighter.
How heavy is double lighter? Is it blue sky light or cloudy sky sky?
[url= http://dx.com/p/foss-presta-explosion-proof-inner-tube-for-bicycle-26x1-95-2-25-69277 ]Some over at DX for $19 - but not in pugsley size ;-)[/url]
Those Foss ones with blue ano presta look much cooler. My LBS had them in last year for $20, but I was doubtful so I looked them up online and there seemed to be issues with them splitting along the seam. No idea if they or the Eclipse have improved.
I've converted to tubeless since and doubt I could be persuaded to go back.
Take a look at the spec on those Foss ones - 182g it says, so not the same thing.
Fair enough, I didn't bother rechecking, but there's no way I would ever have considered tubes weighing that much so that number seems odd.
The point made re the Eclipse for road might tempt me though. That saddlebag thread would look a little different with Co2 and a lighter. Is Co2 flammable? Bonus if your tube repair doubles as a flamethrower!
Is Co2 flammable?
*blows out birthday candles carefully*
was thinking the same thing stoner - not to mention flamible fire extinguisher - mmmmmm fun !
Impossible to lower rolling resistance on something that isn't causing friction when moving.
I.e. tyre to road. Inner tube to er nothing.
I do fancy these for the road bike but have memories of my first ride with a set of green panaracer fancy tubes fitted to my mtb about 20 years ago. Both tubes split after a few miles, oh the disappointment.
Is Co2 flammable?*blows out birthday candles carefully*
🙂 LOL
CO2 is inert (or at least it was when I was 12 in a chemistry class!). However, a whole sink of water and a bottle of potassium was pretty crazy.
Doh! My flight of fancy is dashed. Funny though.
Is Co2 flammable?
Frantically removes all the CO2 fire extinguishers from work..... 😉
Impossible to lower rolling resistance on something that isn't causing friction when moving.
Or... better to understand rolling resistance is 'made up of' contact resistance (i.e super tacky tyres are high in this) and 'effort needed to deform tyre' - if you can 'roll through' a bump in the ground, rather than roll [b]over[/b] it, that takes less effort...
DrP
Having considered it a bit I now think they're actually pretty good value, you can probbaly get 4 or maybe even 5 mud flaps out of a £40 tube, so compares well with that piss take priced Mojo fender...
Same way people claim tubeless does it- takes less force to deform the tyre, since normally you're deforming sidewall + thicker inner tube.I have no idea if it works- I can't tell any difference with tubeless.
It's called Hysteresis, I reckon it works but it's not the only selling point of tubeless...
My first thought when seeing these was they look like heat shrink tubing I have in my electronics workshop. Then I read this on their site:
[i]The Eclipse bicycle tube R1825 is NOT suitable in combination with carbon rims ! The heat during braking can burst the inner tube![/i]
Hmmm.... 😉
Has anyone any real world hard use experience of these tubes yet?
Hi One of the guys I ride with got a bunch of the Foss tubes. There is a great picture of one of my mates got OTB when one of these blew out. He wasn't impressed
I put some on the missus's comuter bike and found that they leaked slowly. They are also a PITA to blow up since they have no lock ring on the valve stem. Finally when on went down over a couple of days the tube rotated in the rim and ripped out the valve stem.
If they puncture you can't repair them.
Not impressed. No way would I change my tubeless set ups for these.
Nice story, but the foss tubes are not the same as the eclipse ones....
derrrr
has a more obvious statement ever been made?the foss tubes are not the same as the eclipse ones
Yes they say FOSS in big letters on them and are clearly different
Ahh thanks for pointing that out. I defer to your leviathan intellect, as I was confused and under the impression that this thread was concerned with the eclipse tubes. What a thick twit I am.
Three previous posts about the FOSS tubes in the thread 🙂
indeed it took three posts for a someone much brighter than me to point out
Take a look at the spec on those Foss ones - 182g it says, [b]so not the same thing.[/b]
Well I think just for once I'll put my money where my mouth is and pick one up to try. Tubeless on downhill bikes being a pain in the arris.
trail_rat - Memberwas thinking the same thing stoner - not to mention flamible fire extinguisher - mmmmmm fun !
OT- I worked in a fringe venue that had a sort of circus archaos troupe performing. You know how sometimes, you see lots of warning signs and think "health and safety gone maaaaad"? Well, I made an exception for their Fire Inquishers, which were standard 50 litre red Chubb fire extinguishers, loaded with petrol instead of water.
NW, I'm thinking along the same lines. Is there a UK source?
Rutland have some of the range, otherwise Google is your friend 😉
Yeah rutland dont have the dh size.
Well according to my scales at home the FOSS tubes are 80gr for the MTB size tubes.................so probably very similar to the Eclipse tube in weight and product claims
Freeflow have the bigger sizes, as do the folks linked up the page who had the patch deal. Rutland has the small ones for less, and free postage.
If anyone can find a cheaper source for the big sizes, that'd be welcome! Otherwise Freeflow I think.
No 29er version at the moment! Would love to give them a go..
No 29er version at the moment! Would love to give them a go..
Yes there is:
http://www.silverfish-uk.com/ProductDetail/13352/13363/Inner-Tube
*700 x 28-45mm fits 27.5" x 1.5"-2.25" and 29" x 1.5"-2.25"
Well according to my scales at home the FOSS tubes are 80gr for the MTB size tubes
I stand corrected, I guess Deal extreme quote weight in packing which is not what we want to see. Anyway......
From eclipse' own website:
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So by their own claims about on par with this [url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=58699 ]rather average ~£3 butyl tube[/url] for pinch flat resistance... Meh.
But about on par with a [url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=5418 ]£10 Maxxis DH[/url] if you plan on riding over a bed of nails....
How's that work then?
Pinch flat resistance should be a pretty important measure of these tube's durability IMO, and in that respect it's apparently not substantially better than a "normal" butyl tube.
I suppose [I]"Save 130g a wheel and still get as many pinch flats!"[/I] isn't much of a strap line though...
I have a better strap line "Money to burn but too inept to run tubeless?"
Well according to my scales at home the FOSS tubes are 80gr for the MTB size tubes.................so probably very similar to the Eclipse tube in weight and product claims
I call BS. Somebody weighed the small mtb size and got 120g. So 180 ish for the bigger size seems reasonable.
[url= http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/foss-inner-tubes-673150.html ]see here weighed at 120g.[/url]
Does it matter?
They're still crap whatever the weight...
I'm not sure if anyone knows if the eclipse ones are crap or not. I'm not convinced that they are the same as the foss ones in any way.
Tubeless on downhill bikes being a pain in the arris.
Why is that then NW? I would have though tubeless for DH was a pretty good idea
you tend to get very high side loadings on DH bikes and tubeless tyres can "burp" air out.
also the serious DH boys tend to swap tyres a lot depending on track conditions.
you tend to get very high side loadings on DH bikes and tubeless tyres can "burp" air out.
also the serious DH boys tend to swap tyres a lot depending on track conditions.
I think the Burping thing primarily comes from people who rather early on believed they could run silly low, low pressures in a tubeless tyre, the truth is you can perhaps knock a small amount off of what you would use in a tubed tyre but run any setup at ~10 psi and your chances of finishing a run are marginal...
Tubeless undeniably comes with a bit of faff, but it's mostly faff in the garage with a compressor that can be done long before the event, assuming you either:
A- Trust the weather forecast.
or
B- Run a "Nominal" tyre setup in all conditions... (This applies to me).
If you are a serial tyre changer or just a Faff-phobe then don't use it for DH, better to stick with what you know then I reckon accept the weight, use DH tyres and tubes and MTFu...
If these new tubes prove to be any good, then you have just outlined the logic for DHers using them. Happy days.
Rolling resistance
Rolling resistance, sometimes called rolling friction or rolling drag, is the force resisting the motion when a body (such as a ball, tire, or wheel) rolls on a surface. It is mainly caused by non-elastic effects, that is, not all the energy that is needed for deformation (or movement) of the wheel, roadbed, etc. is recovered when the pressure is removed. Two forms of this are hysteresis losses, see below, and permanent (plastic) deformation of the object or the surface (e.g. soil). Another cause of rolling resistance lies in the slippage between the wheel and the surface, which dissipates energy. Note that only the last one of these effects involves friction, therefore the name "rolling friction" is to some extent a misnomer.
In analogy with sliding friction, rolling resistance is often expressed as a coefficient times the normal force. This coefficient of rolling resistance is generally much smaller than the coefficient of sliding friction.[1]
Any coasting wheeled vehicle will gradually slow down due to rolling resistance including that of the bearings, but a train car with steel wheels running on steel rails will roll farther than a bus of the same mass with rubber tires running on tarmac. Factors that contribute to rolling resistance are the (amount of) deformation of the wheels, the deformation of the roadbed surface, and movement below the surface. Additional contributing factors include wheel diameter, speed[2] load on wheel, surface adhesion, sliding, and relative micro-sliding between the surfaces of contact. It depends very much on the material of the wheel or tire and the sort of surface it runs on. For example, a rubber tire will have higher rolling resistance on a paved road than a steel railroad wheel on a steel rail. But if one were to drive a steel wheeled vehicle on a paved road it would likely have more resistance than a rubber tire would (why? reference needed). Also, sand on the ground will give more rolling resistance than concrete (why? reference needed).
On the back of the thread last week I've got some of the Eclipse ones (on the MTB). Bit early to reserve judgement, but I've not died yet!
Hmm. Actually I will not put my money where my mouth is, til the big ones can be found in stock for cheaper- everyone that I can find that has them wants £45 + £5 p&p 🙁
richmtb - MemberWhy is that then NW? I would have though tubeless for DH was a pretty good idea
Tyre swapping for conditions mostly. The very fast guys tend to struggle keeping the air in (I remember a pinkbike article with someone, whose name escapes me, was using tubeless but putting an extra 10psi in to compensate for the air he lost on the way down!).
(of course, everyone just accepts tube failures like it's no thing)
For me it's just the tyre swapping, burping never been an issue. But even then, these tubes in dh size will be a little lighter than my tubeless setup is when I use it.
I put in a ride with them at about 28psi on Saturday and they're still inflated to about that now, so they don't seem to leak like many lightweight tubes do. Both were 59g on my scales, 3g over claimed.
So are they like Latex tubes, but 4 x the price?
They're lighter than latex tubes, don't leak half their air during a ride and are more puncture proof.
£36 from Merlin, in all sizes, btw... Just ordered me 2 for the big bike, should be interesting.
Good find NW.
Oh and it might be punishable by death, but Merlin now do topcashback so if anyone wanted to follow my referral I get £10 😉 Which I will donate to a mate who is doing a French coast-to-coast for Macmillan.
http://www.topcashback.co.uk/ref/northwind?source=tellafriend
Anyone who disapproves of this is pro-cancer 😉
You are Lance Armstrong and I claim my 10 vials of [s]EPO[/s] herbal remedy.
You went and bought them all, didn't you? Out of stock now.
Merlin also pro-cancer 🙁
So - did they explode and shower you in flames?
'Anyone using [s]those new[/s] inner tubes?'
(Fixed that for you) 😀
I see what you did there. Mirthsome.
Right, I haven't ridden them yet as they're going in the most endlessly delayed bike build I've ever done. But, they're both up and holding air fine at least. One of them turned out to be defective! It's been joined wrongly at the "end" (when they turn it from a hose to a tube) and is twisted. But it inflated fine and the twist wasn't noticable once it's got some air in, so Merlin suggested "See what happens, if it fails we'll replace it anyway".
Not totally impressed at Eclipse over that tbh! But it's not hurting to try it.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36397392@N06/6321152924/
for a long term review - still out of my budget (for the toad bike that is, Tubeless for eons with the MTB)
OK, a follow-on... One of them's burst, while sat in the garage in a tyre, at 30psi. It has ridden zero miles. Leaking at one of the seams. Slightly to my surprise, it's not the defective one.
So. Not inspired, really. Should get a replacement or refund from Merlin, tempted to insist they do both. Not entirely given up.