Anyone Using Paul Klampers for 'Proper' Trail Riding?

Andy at stooge runs them, and rates them, but a good  mate had them on his mk ti, and had just replaced them with hydraulics again as he found the klampers just were not consistant enough for really hooning about.

Ive ridden a few different bikes with then on, dont really like the lever feel or performance.

I am thinking about doing more or less exactly the same thing (...although haven't built my stooge yet). Have bought some fancy incompressible outers. I know hydraulic brakes are hardly a faff these days, but I just find in life I am so short on time to do anything admin related that I want my rigid bike to be utterly analogue.

Are you going to go with the Paul levers as well? I fancy set of the 2.5's but they seem hard to find in the UK or in Europe.

They are ludicrously expensive though.... are they really much better than BB7'S?

Yes, and I really like them, nice modulation and very powerful. But there are a couple of caveats...

1) They work much better with sprung levers like the Avid SD7s. Didn't like them with the Paul Love Levers I originally used.

2) cables/outers make a massive difference. Best have been Jagwire Ripcords. They are very sensitive to cable set-up.

3) caliper position on the Stooge MK4 doesn't suit the Klampers very well. The cable run (comes in on the left) and the side of the Klamper arm (on the right) means you end up with a very tight cable bend.

4) again caliper position on the back means that water and dirt get into the outer very easily.

Great (amazing even) brakes when first set up, but the performance on the back was often patchy due to the above issues.

I swapped them with the brakes on my Surly Krampus, and they've been brilliant on that as the cable run and caliper position is much better.

There was a review on Bike Rumour when they first came out (a year or so ago?)  and I seem to remember the guy was ecstatic about them. I'll see if I can dig it out.

Edit: Review 

always fancied a pair but the price is one thing, and i cant really see them being better that a properly set up set of BB7 brakes.   which i find far better than any hydro brakes i have used.

There's these too, in depth review not of the klampera, but talks and compares lever feel of both https://theradavist.com/growtac-equal-brakes-long-term-review/

Cheers all. @TazzyMTB I swear you must have some kind of special notification anytime the word 'Stooge' is mentioned!

3) caliper position on the Stooge MK4 doesn’t suit the Klampers very well. The cable run (comes in on the left) and the side of the Klamper arm (on the right) means you end up with a very tight cable bend.

Thanks @ajantom, mine's a MK4 so this is pretty invaluable info. I assume you wouldn't do it again then (i.e. runing Klampers on your MK4)?

@Joe, at the moment that's the plan, but most of the 'rave' reviews are of the short pull variant it seems, so I was minded to go short pull with Canti-Levers. I've found a full set already but they're flat mount so holding out on the used market for a bit first.

BB7 brakes. which i find far better than any hydro brakes i have used.

BB7s are great, never understood how people struggle with them tbh! They're so easy to set up and even back when I was 20+ stone I could lock up with one finger on 160mm rotors. Modulation is no different to Shimano brakes which are also quite on/off in feel ime. Been half thinking about going back to them as my hoses need replacing and extending anyway. Only thing I didn't like is lever choice wasn't great and I don't think the Avid levers I had had good reach adjustment to get them as close as I like.

What advantage (if any) are you hoping to get by going from hydraulic brakes to mechanical ones? Most modern hydros are pretty powerful and largely maintenance free. Since fitting Codes a few years ago all I’ve had to do is clean and change pads pretty much. I think the rear is just coming up to needing a bleed now - but again - with bleeding edge that’s a pretty clean and painless process. <br /><br />

Appreciate Paul’s are meant to be at the top end of mechanical brakes but surely you still have to adjust them regularly if they only move one pad?

Also - looks like they’re £250 ish per end without levers? You could buy brand new Hope Tech 4 V4’s for less than that. Which would be ideal for steep tech and hard enduro style riding.

I feel similarly to @joebristol. I can't imagine how they are going to be better than hydros, and I'm not sure they'll require less maintenance/be less faff, especially when Stooge's are externally routed. Do your Hope's need a lot of attention?

All that said, obviously I don't have an actual answer to your question. So I would be keen to hear if you do get Klampers and find them better than your hydros.

If you shell out £250 each end for any brake, its automatically going to be the best brake that ever there was though, right?

nickc
If you shell out £250 each end for any brake, its automatically going to be the best brake that ever there was though, right?

Especially if they're 'made' by Lewis apparently.

Swapping the minor faff of occasional bleeding for the larger faff of cable and sometimes outer replacement would only make sense to me for a use case like bikepacking and touring where you may be away from a workshop for long periods of time and it’s easier to carry a spare cable.

For enduro riding I just don’t know why you would?

This thread is like stepping back in time 20 years when there were endless threads about how disk brakes were unnecessary anyway, but hydros were too difficult to maintain and would be impossible to fix if you had problems trekking across the Serengeti. Then people got used to them and realized they need almost no maintenance between pad changes, unlike cable brakes. If those Klampers were £50 each end, I'd consider them but £250 each end is just taking the piss.

Just thinking about it further, if it’s the bling factor and Hope isn’t bling enough then you’re a big chunk of the way towards the Trickstuff Piccola or Diretissima brakes…..

Good tip @Ajantom I will order some Avid SD7 then !

From SJS Cycles "Paul refined some details; using bigger balls..."

So bigger balls if you need them.

OK I can only comment on dirt cheap cable discs but a lot of the lack of feel, modulation and power I put down to only one moving pad. Mechanically, I don't like the idea of pushing the rotor over to the inner pad. But then again, I suppose there's no fluid to boil on those super gnarr descents.

Hydro brakes are analogue Shirley?

Much less faff than looking after cables and caliper adjustments for 'proper' MTB, and better performance.

I'd consider stuff like the Paul's brakes firmly in the bling camp, which is perfectly fine if bling is what you want.

I have been considering them. But that’s for a drop bar bike where I’d need say £400 worth of bits to run hydraulic brakes. What puts me off is  cable maintenance. The rear cable faces up at the end and water gets in. A swap involves undoing the bar tape. The front brake is fine as the cable it’s shorter and  faces down

The basic SRAM brakes on my MTB just work. They’ve only ever needed a pad swap

I was thinking of doing the same. I emailed Paul and he recomended the short pull (Canti) not long pull (v brake) for mountain biking.

OK I can only comment on dirt cheap cable discs but a lot of the lack of feel, modulation and power I put down to only one moving pad

TBF, I think the Klampers have two moving pads. A friend had some fairly cheap Tektros about 20 years ago that used the same system. They worked fine but needed frequent adjustment and decent cables, same as all cable brakes. When they were well set up, they worked about as well as Deore hydros.

Edit. No. I took another look. They seem to only have one moving pad like Avids. The old Tektro system was much better, both pads moved so you only had to adjust cable tension at the lever, not pad clearance at the caliper.

I think that one moving pad cable brakes are better.  I have Spyres and they aren’t as good in my experience as BB7s or Growtac Equals. You still need to adjust at the pad or you will run out of cable travel.  <br /><br />

This article gives info on the Growtac approach to designing a mechanical brake.  I think it is translated from Japanese so it takes a bit of reading. I think the analysis of one or two sides moving pads is on page 6.

push the button

I'm not having it. It's pull the trigger!

On middleclassbuyingdecsionworld we rock up and pull triggers. If some oik has the temerity to disagree with one's carefully considered procurement strategy, it is customary to be offended, defensive, indulge in some backhanded insults and finish with a flounce.

@abingham - yes and no 😁

I'd happily run them as a summer brake, but as soon as you run them in the wet, the angle that the cable outer meets the brake on the MK4 (and I guess other Stooges) means that water and dirt are guaranteed to get in.

With newly installed, clean cables they are lovely, but there are too many niggles to run them on the Stooge.

OTOH the cable run and brake position on the Krampus is perfect, no water getting in, so they work a lot better.

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These things always turn into a "why use cables, hydros are so much better!" argument 😆

Pros and cons to both IMO.

I've used lots of cable discs - Clarkes somethings, BB5s, BB7s, TRP Spyres, Revers RV1s (like Spyres, but nicer finish), and the Klampers.

The Klampers are without a doubt the best I've used for both power and modulation.

Yes, you have to adjust the pads occasionally, buts it's tool-free 👍

So, lots of legitimate questions here.

It's hard to explain my reasoning in truly rational terms. I am probably a bit of a retrogrouch at heart (hence the rigid singlespeed!), and I like the the Paul kit is ethically made in terms of people, processes, and durability. That appeals very much to me. With that all being said, I'm not splurging that kind of money on a down-grade from the Hope kit I already have, which have been faultless for many years and very low maintenance. 

@ajantom, really appreciate the perspective. As much as I'd like to justify it, it certainly sounds like I'd be taking steps backwards in terms of the fitting issue with the MK4 given it gets ridden all year around and put away wet!

 like the the Paul kit is ethically made in terms of people, processes, and durability.

This alone is a very good reason to buy something in my opinion, and I missed this before (and you did allude to it in your first post, to be fair)

Although in this case I guess I would respond that, looking at this from an ethical angle, a more effective solution may be to pick up a second-hand pair of hydraulics and donate some proportion of the hundreds the Klampers would have cost to some sort of cause that you feel passionate about (probably no shortage of them, especially at the moment...)

Supporting companies doing things well environmentally and ethically is great, but in the case of Paul it's always going to be small and niche and barely make a scratch into Shimano and Sram's

So, there's my second 2 cents on this that, for the second time, doesn't actually answer your question 🙂

 I like the the Paul kit is ethically made in terms of people, processes, and durability

Email them with a tech question, and Paul himself replies...which is nice 😎

They are a lovely bit of kit, and I'd probably make 80-90% back on what I spent if I sold them. Can't say that about most brakes!

really appreciate the perspective. As much as I’d like to justify it, it certainly sounds like I’d be taking steps backwards in terms of the fitting issue with the MK4 given it gets ridden all year around and put away wet

@abingham - as nice as they are, I wouldn't recommend them for a MK4 (unsure on the cable routing on other Stooges)

I'm going to run them on the Surly for a bit, but if I have similar issues I'll probably sell them on. I have a spare(!) Set of Hope Tech 3 X2s I could put on it 😁

What’s more environmentally sound, the brake you already own, and have many years good service from or a new brake you buy which will also undoubtedly need more consumables as time goes by (inner and outer cables etc.) 

I'd suggest Hope are also just as ethical in terms of people, processes and durability.

I was in USA a few weeks ago for work and had a look at some Klampers in a bike shop. Nicely made and I would certainly consider some, but the next frame build will have a weird caliper position that really needs a hose and banjo to work.

Previously we've run a lot of bb7s. The only drawbacks have been commuter road salt seizing the adjusters, and the occasional super muddy CX race where pad wear meant no brakes or having to stop and adjust.