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Was looking for some new disc rotor bolts and saw some ti ones on Temu for not a lot of cash. Seems pretty low risk so might try them but then saw some cheap rotors. Imagine that’s just stupid risk unless anyone had some good experience with them?
How much do rotors and bolts cost? Do you really feel you need to subsidise the CCP to save pennies? Get a grip, mate.
I bought a rear mech off AliExpress just to see what it was like. Looked nice in the pics... It's a piece of junk 🤣
Rotors and bolts from temu.....do they do dental plans too?
Rotor bolts low risk? Blimey.
Rich from GMBN did a full Chinese bike build then attempted a 100km ride on it. The cranks failed in about 10 IIRC.
Not Temu but I've used ali express for plenty of bits. I've got IIIpro floating rotors on both my road bike and commuter and they've been no bother.
I don't care what quality they are (I assume they’re cheap rubbish anyway), but I refuse to buy bike stuff from companies like Temu, Amazon and Aliexpress as I want the money I spend to go back into the bike industry rather than the pockets of Bezos or Chinese tat manufacturers that put nothing back into t the sport I love.
Also it all looks crap half the time.
I haven't bought anything from Amazon for 5 years now. I've never bought anything from the Chinese knock off shops, and I don't intend to start. If I can't afford the genuine stuff, then I can't afford stuff full stop. But it's up to you, just as it's up to you whether you want to risk your teeth or not.
Amflow/DJI bikes.
I didn't realise they were owned by Temu?
Sounds like a resounding no then!
But lots of the "genuine" stuff is made in the same Chinese factories as the AliExpress or Temu stuff, if you do your homework on the factory you'll be fine. For example some Vitus carbon frames can be purchased direct from Carbonda in China with great customer service or via a shop on AliExpress.
Unless your dripping in Chris King or Ride works or Hope - where do you think most of the stuff you buy comes from?
Came to post what @qwerty just said
Often you can't distinguish what's on AliExpress from what a reputable brand is selling. Because it is *exactly* the same thing (apart from the label)
That isn't true of everything, but it is true for a lot of stuff.
Same with outdoor gear too (e.g camping stoves etc)
But lots of the "genuine" stuff is made in the same Chinese factories as the AliExpress or Temu stuff, if you do your homework on the factory you'll be fine. For example some Vitus carbon frames can be purchased direct from Carbonda in China with great customer service or via a shop on AliExpress.
With varying degrees of quality depending on how much the brand pays. How do you know you’re getting the A grade, good enough for the brands, stuff or the Friday afternoon stuff a trainee knocked together?
And let’s not get started on any IP theft that’s happening.
Amflow/DJI bikes.
Shed loads in my shed from Aliexpress. Worth noting that quite a few companies that now are mainstream were Aliexpress originally. Ekoi now dress a pro team for example. Just where do Gorillas pads, as another example, get their stuff from? Hand crafted in the Midlands maybe?
Do people really think that the workers carry on after knocking off time running out their own copies of stuff also sold for and by the big names? Yeah right.
Some of the really cheap stuff is crap. Alloy bolts are that rare cheese alloy. The paint on my Chinese bike is way better than that on my Sonder and all the threads didn't need chasing.
Do people really think that the workers carry on after knocking off time running out their own copies of stuff also sold for and by the big names? Yeah right.
No, but not everything passes QC. Ever heard of factory seconds?
I wouldn't waste my time with TI rotor bolts on the first place but I've had loads of bits from Aliexpress and not had any issues. I don't know where half the comments above think a set of rotor bolts from treds or merlin etc etc are actually made 😂. Just use a bit of common sense with Aliexpress and you're fine, fi it looks too good to be true, it likely will be.
Quite a few bike tools, tpu tubes, UNO Stem and seat posts, Sensah road shifters etc etc have all been good form Aliexpress for me.
Do people really think that the workers carry on after knocking off time running out their own copies of stuff also sold for and by the big names? Yeah right.
No, but not everything passes QC. Ever heard of factory seconds?
Can you show me a single example of the Chinese OEM's flogging factory seconds of their western brands products? The fake Dogmas, SL8's, Ostro's, etc are exactly that and have no connection to the real factories. There's just no incentive for them to risk their reputations and future contracts.
There's plenty of the OEM's now trying to build up their in house brands with consistent quality and marketing budgets.
I've had quite a bit of ztto gear and it's all been reasonable. The dropper levers are fantastic, cheap tubeless rim tape works just as well as Tessa tape. I even bought some cassettes back in COVID lockdown times when there was a big parts shortage. Yeah they don't shift quite so well as SRAM or Shimano but they are perfectly acceptable. One is still going strong on my hardtail.
Can you show me a single example
Of course he can't! Probably never even seen the website! 😆
Just where do Gorillas pads, as another example, get their stuff from? Hand crafted in the Midlands maybe?
But if I buy components from a reputable UK company that is importing Chinese components, I'm going to assume they've done due diligence that the components they are importing meet UKCA standards. If I'm purchasing directly from Temu or Ali Express there's no way of me knowing the quality I'm getting, e.g. is it an OEM factory item with different branding, or some 3D scanned knock off dangerous crap like those Specialized frame that had the head tube snap off.
Now if it's something like a ZTTO dropout alignment tool, I'll take my chance, but anything safety critical on my bike, nope, I'll pay full price cheers.
Clearly I am a risk taking idiot as I have been using AliExpress TPU tubes, tubeless tape, discs and pads as well cheap accessories like bells and lights and some random tools. I've got about 10,000 miles using my favourite brand of pads and discs and they are just as good as any western brand. Just do your research and buy from the brand's official store.
On what planet are snidey rotor bolts low risk?
Infact. On what planet are ti rotor bolts worth it? You save something like 5g on a wheel to reduce weight... And tensile strength.
Never used Temu for anything tbh, Wife uses it lots and it's all cheap shit. She won't learn though.
Bought some generic off-brand bits from amazon though, including brake pads and they've all been fine tbh
Anyone interested in how Chinese bike brands are changing should read this
Here's a gift article for you from Escape Collective: https://escapecollective.com/the-rise-of-chinese-bike-brands-and-what-it-means-for-the-industry/?gift-token=rfgTjnkA
(it’s a gift link)
Some of what she says chimes with me - I know that loads of Chinese stuff is excellent but I struggle to figure out what is legit and what isn’t. I suspect it’ll take some time for the Chinese brands to build trust but Donny doubt it will happen.
I haven’t used Temu as I’ve been put off by the adverts for obvious landfill garbage. On Aliexpress I still find it hard to know quite what I’m getting when I order. I’ll often buy tools for relatively niche jobs on there and they tend to be plenty good enough for my spannering. Components I’m less keen on because I don’t want the doubt in the back of my mind when I’m riding.
But lots of the "genuine" stuff is made in the same Chinese factories as the AliExpress or Temu stuff, if you do your homework on the factory you'll be fine.
You're not wrong, some may be. But taking carbon stuff as the example, there's 100s if not 1000s of places making carbon stuff, after all you or I could learn to do the basics pretty quickly. How many really good frame or fork factories are there, the ones with a great rep, no recalls, good QA and testing? Nowhere near 100s. If you're able to find the actual factory a part is made in you're doing well. Then homework is anecdotal evidence of people who use the stuff, doesn't really do much apart from purchase justification. You'd want to assure yourself they use the good materials and processes - there's a lot of corners that can be cut in making carbon parts, a lot of mistakes that can be made when stuff is pushed through at speed. Good process adds time and money. Why is a part cheap? Because they stripped out as much cost as possible. All I'm saying is, buyer beware and be very cautious with safety-critical parts.
I've been to a few carbon facilities in Taiwan and China and seen a wide range of process levels. Personally, if I don't know where it was from it isn't going on my bike.
For example some Vitus carbon frames can be purchased direct from Carbonda in China with great customer service or via a shop on AliExpress.
It's a Carbonda frame that Vitus buy like they buy Sram mechs, rather than a Vitus frame. Carbonda do seem to have a good rep, there's a small number of suppliers that many brands use for open mold carbon frames and forks.
Do people really think that the workers carry on after knocking off time running out their own copies of stuff also sold for and by the big names? Yeah right.
It happens in many contract manufacturing industries using the same kit as the brands specify, called over-run. Molds are relatively mobile and can be taken from one factory to another and be used elsewhere. Molds don't last forever, where do the old ones end up? All ways that some look-alike product ends up getting made, to various levels of quality.
It's a grey area, is all I'm saying. Buyer beware.
UNO Stem and seat posts
Kalloy UNO? One of the oldest and largest bar stem and seatpost brands out there. I doubt many of us haven't ridden their kit at some point.
I reckon you're happy with Ali express purchases around 70% of the time. The way I see it, it's just a way to cut out some middlemen and buy from the same source of production more cheaply.
Don't buy rotor bolts from Ali lol. I'm buying from Ali if it's simple and not safety/mechanically critical.
Some great things I've bought- dropper lever (ztto), gloves (rockbros), lights (happy to expand on this, my lights are ace and cost like 50ish all in, rode all winter), chain whip, bearing press kit (with extra drifts from bearing pro tools), tpu tubes, grips (the ones that look like ergons feel exactly the same, I have both).
The way I see it, it's just a way to cut out some middlemen ..
It's also a way to cut out the requirements of the General Product Safety Regulations, that's a good way to cut out costs. Those regs require testing, traceability and market surveillance. e.g. do those brake pads have asbestos in them? Do the grips pass REACH tests for chemicals? Can that manufacturer contact users in case of recalls? Can Trading Standards act if the product is unsafe?
I'm not saying all Chinese suppliers skip all this stuff. I'm just saying, they can. The question is do we know? If they do meet the regs and you know they do, all good. I expect the better brands there will make this more obvious in time, after all they'll already be dong it and have everything to gain. And in general it's in no-ones interest to knowingly make utter junk, even the factory wastes time there.
and buy from the same source of production more cheaply
It can be, because some product from brands is just a re-label job. That's a fairly thin business model these days. But on the flip side, out of the same factory door does not reliably mean the same product or quality levels.
My gf uses Temu a lot but I've yet to try it for bike stuff.
I've ordered loads from AliEx over the past year though:
-Various Ti bolts from a Wanyifa, a gold rated store that specialises in ti bolts for cycling and motor bikes.
-Riderace Bottle cages
-Riderace Bottles
-XT RT86 rotors (genuine as far as I can tell)
-High powered lights + various mounts
-ULAC saddle bag
-Rhinowalk bar bag
-HEPPE Trailer Thru Axle
-Various tools
No complaints with any of it, you just have to make sure you're buying known Chinese brands, from a shop with a good rating and the items have good reviews, preferably with pictures. Refunds and returns are relatively straightforward too.
Not sure I'd buy things like mechs, bars, tyres etc, but for small parts it's great. That being said, I do have a nice steel gravel frameset and Elitewheels carbon wheelset in my wish list (both highly rated on the Chinertown forum).
You can also buy the exact same stuff on eBay and Amazon with a hefty mark up.
No complaints with any of it, you just have to make sure you're buying known Chinese brands, from a shop with a good rating and the items have good reviews, preferably with pictures. Refunds and returns are relatively straightforward too.
Not sure I'd buy things like mechs, bars, tyres etc, but for small parts it's great. That being said, I do have a nice steel gravel frameset and Elitewheels carbon wheelset in my wish list (both highly rated on the Chinertown forum).
I've had a complete R1720 groupset from Anrancee that cost £305 and appears to be genuine. I'm also using a Ryet saddle and Balugoe bars which all appear to be of high quality. It's reasonably easy to avoid fake stuff by buying from their official stores and not random one that pop up with odd cycling products, or prices that are out of line with the rest of the marketplace.
@qwerty - I have no problem buying things made in China, but I prefer to buy things from companies that put money back into the sport/industry rather than the pockets of generic Chinese companies that do nothing to help the sport I love. When was the last time Temu sponsored a rider, engram or event? You might be able to buy stuff made in the same factory, but when did Carbondo put anything back?
I’m not even going to start on IP theft or the lack of QC on similar things coming out of the same factories although they are also things I care about.
I've got loads of small parts from Ali-Express. And some not so small as well. Some of it because taking a hit on quality is of negligible consequence (6-bolt SS kits, seat clamps, DUB self extracting (literally, why do sram not thread lock them?) bolts.
Some are just better value, like chainrings (just make sure they're 7075) , Garmin mounts, bells, and other widgets. I've also bought £100's of camping stuff via there. Is it quite as good as MSR, Sierra Designs and Thermarest, no, am I actually using it 3 days hike from civilization on the Appalachian Trail, also no (although TBH I'm sure it would be fine).
Some stuff just isn't available at a sensible price in western shops because it's niche, like handlebar shims.
TBH the bike industry has largely made this a problem for itself. However bad Wake (their new brakes look awesome, although if they're as poorly made as their stems ....) , iiiPro or Z-Race make a CNC'd brake, or ZRACE cranks snap, or ZTTO BB's only last 6 months. You can't actually argue it's worse than Shimano or SRAM who's brakes seize up or leak, cranks fell apart, and BB's fail. If the mainstream brands weren't **** people might not be tempted to look elsewhere.
When was the last time Temu sponsored a rider, engram or event?
I think they call them influencers now. And Ali-Express seem to sponsor a lot (although maybe not cycling).
And the flip side of that is, for those of us who just want to go ride bikes in the woods, why do I really care that a portion of my money would be spent on a race team I have zero interest in?
Having said that I did just realize quite how many components on my bikes are from brands that sponsor SSUK, although that may be happy accident as niche SS kit, is, well, niche.
My golden rule...if it breaks and it means a walk home then I'm all good with it
If it breaks and I end up under the wheels of a lorry, not so much
Plus..when you are hurtling down the road at 40mph clutching your 25 quid Chinese carbon bars, are you thinking 'wow, cycling is amazing', or are you thinking 'these bars have been great so far, I really hope I don't die at any minute'
I can justify using AliExpress using a single link -
30 bloody quid! for something that looks shit and collects shit.
about 5 quid on Aliexpress.
"But I like spending lots on mudguards! It keeps the bike industry alive!" 🤣
^
I’m not even going to start on IP theft or the lack of QC on similar things coming out of the same factories although they are also things I care about.
See Win Wing rip off above
And you know that the Win Wing came first?
hmmm..don't see many posts like that when people mention Amflow/DJI bikes.
the amflow bike used a catalog frame, so the chances are youll find one in alibaba
And you know that the Win Wing came first?
Happens all the time, that. Small western brands copying a huge Chinese factory’s ideas/designs.
Wait, hang on.
And you know that the Win Wing came first?
Of that and a £5 version on Ali Express? I'll have a fiver on it? It wasn't the first partial guard on a support like that (it's a motorbike design). Evolving an idea is one thing, rip and duplicate is another. But that's my culturally biased view. Over here most of us would see innovation as something to be protected and rewarded to encourage it. In China the ability to copy and reproduce is admired as a skill in itself, since Ming vases etc.
A big chunk of the bike industry is still rebranding land, you can absolutely buy the exact same parts from temu or aliexpress with a vowel salad name as you can buy in the UK from a Reputable UK Supplier with their name on. The trouble is, how sure are you?
(I fondly remember that time What Mountain Bike gave a Superstar stem 5 stars and an Answer stem 3 stars and said the Answer was "too flexy"-it was literally the same stem with different logos on)
I use Thinkrider pedals- which were an aliexpress only £12 brand but now sell on some UK platforms, for 3 times the price. And they're ace. I'd buy Nukeproof Horizon Comps if you could still buy them but these are the nearest thing. And Bikeinn brake pads, which are stupendously cheap but actually work really well. (I can hear people going "safety critical!" but I've been using em since we went to the mega in 2021, including for the Mega itself, and they've been flawless- I suspect a brake pad is the sort of thing that's hard enough to make that you might as well make it well. The worst brake pad fail I've ever had was a very expensive Carbon Lorraine on the motorbike where the entire pad fell off the backing, cost is no guarantee of quality.
Pedals are a funny one, I've seen people who absolutely will not buy a HT pedal because that's "some chinese brand" and then recommend a pedal that HT make for someone else, or literally the same pedal rebranded. I used to get a <lot> of shit for recommending a HT Nano straight from the company, rather than a Superstar Nano, which at the time was literally the same thing but more expensive.
Ti bolts are interesting because making a good ti bolt is actually nonsimple- cheap ones will often suffer from bad tool fitment and also you'll sometimes find pretty sharp threads rather than nicely rolled, which you don't really want in your alu threaded part. The actual bolt itself can be absolutely fine, outright failures are rare, but that doesn't make you feel any better when you strip the torx head. But again, it's very easy to spend more on a uk seller and still get the same cheap crap standard of bolts.
Oh also my XTR cranks have a Snail chainring fitted, held on with Cansucc bolts, obviously because the names made me laugh.
I have a mate who buys chains from Temu for like £8 - can't remember if they are KMC or Shimano.
I've pointed out that they are probably fake and his reply is - 'of course they aren't, they are all made in China'
He hasn't died yet
Not used Temu, have used AliExpress for cheap lights etc.
I see it as Amazon for the patient.
The same knock offs, for less money but with a couple of weeks wait rather than next day.
I have a mate who buys chains from Temu for like £8 - can't remember if they are KMC or Shimano.
I've pointed out that they are probably fake and his reply is - 'of course they aren't, they are all made in China'
He hasn't died yet
I got some fake SPD cleats from eBay. They lasted 3 rides before they'd not engage. I reckon they were made in China as are real Shimano ones probably.
Have been very tempted by the AliExpress Avid Shorty Ultimates for my old singlespeed, half the price that they're going for in the UK, and since still charging the full £200 RRP for a set of cantis which haven't changed design in about 15 years feels a bit like taking the piss* I don't feel so bad.
Almost tempted by the rip-off Cane Creek ee-brakes as well just for the weight saving, it's not like I brake very hard on the road bike anyway 😎
* although they are the only brakes bar the TRP CX 8.4 that don't squeak on this bike for some reason 🙄
I very occasionally have a browse through Temu and Ali Express tat. I've bought a Celestron branded mobile phone eye-piece clamp for my telescope that arrived in Celestron branded packaging, looks and works exactly like it should and cost about 40% less than if I'd bought it locally. I've bought Garmin mounts which have so far been brilliant. One of those wee kits for threading internal cables and a pile of medic alert bracelets for a few pounds that have all been great. Those last two items from Temu did catch me out though. As I put them in my basket, a window popped up showing me an item that I'd previously looked at. It was a wheel building jig. I clicked on it to have another look, not realising that what I was doing was automatically adding it to my current purchase. I didn't click on buy or anything. Only discovered I'd bought it when it turned up on my doorstep.
For £29, it's actually a really sturdy, well made bit of kit. Just needs a wee bit of lateral thinking to get it to fit a Boost 29'er. Still niggles that I got caught that way though.
From the other thread about Giant bikes and forced labour - if "reputable" brands have to resort to shady practices, how do you think Temu etc. manage to slash prices even further?? It cannot be due to cheap, forced labour alone.
Thievery, obvs.
...have to resort to shady practices...
"Have to" ? Do they have to?
There's a bit of crowing on this topic and on the other thread, but I can't help thinking everyone with a superior "take" is just playing catch with bricks in a greenhouse.
The point being that pretty much everyone in the West, who buys products of just about any sort is engaging with the output of questionable labour practices. we're having this discussion on the interwebs, the products that enable that are equally as questionable in their origins...
The point being you can't really kid yourself into believing one purchasing choice is substantially more ethical than another, Just because a "reputable" brand's logo is on the side and you paid twice as much, doesn't mean you weren't (unwittingly or otherwise) contributing to some flavour of modern slavery...
Nobody is making "better" choices than anyone else, we're basically all unthinking bastards...
I can't help feeling like there's a a bit of a Dichotomy here, in order to have the sort of money it would take to consistently make uncompromising ethical purchasing decisions, you probably have to have some ethical gaps in the way you earned that money to begin with.
Camels, eyes of needles, etc, etc...
The point being you can't really kid yourself into believing one purchasing choice is substantially more ethical than another,
Well.. you can? Buy a Starling or Cotic partially or mainly-UK made frame or buy a carbon FS frame equivalent for 25% less from a brand who sub-contracts to somewhere far away. The ethics come into lower likelihood of shadiness and the reward in using your capitalist vote to support brands who are less supportive of the whole consumer product churn thing. Temu and Shein are the pinnacle of the churn. A local frame builder is the sort of option we have at the other end.
Vote with your money or don't care, whatever, but let's not pretend we don't have any choice.
I can't help feeling like there's a a bit of a Dichotomy here, in order to have the sort of money it would take to consistently make uncompromising ethical purchasing decisions, you probably have to have some ethical gaps in the way you earned that money to begin with.
Some truth in that for sure. The other way to think about it is, why the churn? Why am I looking to save money to enable me to keep spending, why do I want/need a new bike every couple of years? I don't.. I feel that way because I'm bored or need something that consumerism isn't the answer to anyway. I might think I need all this tech that in turn can make a bike less long-term viable or durable but that's just an aspect of the consumerism BS we're sold. It's not us that gain from that.
Buy less often, buy well, buy things that last longer. Ownership cost is lower when it lasts longer. Accept some compromises in what we own perhaps because there's gains elsewhere.
The point being you can't really kid yourself into believing one purchasing choice is substantially more ethical than another
Some purchases (or simply not purchasing at all) are most definitely more ethical, and can also be cheaper (or even free). And then there are the quality and safety issues. To pretend that all purchases are “equal” in terms of ethics is just a cop out (an understandable one).
In terms of the OP, forget about Ti rotor bolts from a dubious source. Stick with steel if you’re money conscious.
Much clutching of pearls, not bought any bike gear but have bought a fair bit of wood working related stuff (guides, rails, router bits, plates) and it has by and large been more than OK.
if "reputable" brands have to resort to shady practices, how do you think Temu etc. manage to slash prices even further?? It cannot be due to cheap, forced labour alone.
By cutting out the middleman? I hate to think how much extra I had to pay the UK middleman for my Basso frameset despite them being a literal impediment in my being able to buy the frame in the first place, they were telling me it didn't exist until I emailed the manufacturer myself 🙄
I can't help feeling like there's a a bit of a Dichotomy here, in order to have the sort of money it would take to consistently make uncompromising ethical purchasing decisions, you probably have to have some ethical gaps in the way you earned that money to begin with.
Or, live in a DINK household.
I’ve met the makers of the last 3 frames I’ve bought, and their families. Feels nicer than giving money to faceless companies.
Mr Pinnacle
Seems he quit. Mr Trek is doing very well.
i bought some no name hydro discs for my commuter from some Chinese site. cant remember which, but they are pretty good. instructions were rubbish and brake levers were wrong way round, but still pretty good for £19 a pair, and after 3 moths of nearly daily use feel confident in using them. Teeth and morals still intact.
Or, live in a DINK household.
Hmmm, even those come at a variety of income points…
Personally I think the trick is just learning to live with the cognitive dissonance of knowing you are not living the most ethical existence, even if you aspire to better. That is the reality of most people’s lives, yes partly driven by purely selfish personal choices, partly by the various influences acting upon us and partly because somethings just aren’t within people’s locus of control and never will be.
I’ve met the makers of the last 3 frames I’ve bought, and their families. Feels nicer than giving money to faceless companies.
Would that we could all shake the hand of everyone that produces our bike frames, look them in the eye, shake their hand, glance over the mill certs and CoCs for the tubing, welding consumables and paint used in the expensive artisanal dandyhorse frame they’re selling us, try their missus’ Shepard’s pie and ruffle their eldest’s hair before magnanimously handing over the cash. And then do the same for every part we bolt to it… But I think we all know the two big S’s are just as fond of far-eastern labour, as are just about everyone producing most other parts.
Sadly throwing money at Stanton and Hope still won’t fully insulate the well heeled you from the evils of the global supply chain, but I guess it’s a reasonable start. I still don’t think it entitles you to sneer at those without the spare disposable income to avoid engaging with those evil “faceless companies”.
Some truth in that for sure. The other way to think about it is, why the churn? Why am I looking to save money to enable me to keep spending, why do I want/need a new bike every couple of years? I don't.. I feel that way because I'm bored or need something that consumerism isn't the answer to anyway. I might think I need all this tech that in turn can make a bike less long-term viable or durable but that's just an aspect of the consumerism BS we're sold. It's not us that gain from that.
Buy less often, buy well, buy things that last longer. Ownership cost is lower when it lasts longer. Accept some compromises in what we own perhaps because there's gains elsewhere.
My ticket is booked for way more exciting reasons than the odd purchase from AliEx.
I am amazed at how fast aliexpress is. I ordered a computer mount (Cycplus Z1). £11 on Amazon. Under £3 on Aliexpress delivered in 6 days.
Not yet, but i might use Aliexpress or Temu soon if I need something like a Nukeproof top guide. It's only a metal plate with holes, a couple of bolts and a pre-formed plastic blob. For £3 it is worth a punt versus what? Thirty odd quid elsewhere?
Came to say the same thing. Everyone is a locally sourcing angel until they are not.hmmm..don't see many posts like that when people mention Amflow/DJI bikes.
Plus, Amazon and AliExpress are where lots of small businesses run their online shops from. Not just China based. But anyway, no-one cares. 😛