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Bit of a vision for the distant future, the wife and I fancy running a cafe in North Wales. I'll have a payout in 8 years, but plan on spending that time learning the little things about running a business etc.
Anyone run a cafe of any kind? Get many hours off for riding? Earn a bucket load (or just enough) of money?
I don't run a cafe, but IME running your own business isn't going to give you more time off, more likely less. As for earnings, it will depend on many factors e.g. location, quality, business acumen, competition, etc, etc. I would expect to have pretty modest financial expectations for a small cafe in North Wales. My wife is an accountant with lots of small businesses (including cafes) on her books and in general they don't make much money.
There are lots of books about running a cafe, I did look into it once but the reading put me off the idea!
Sounds idyllic, but I'd bet it's actually quite hard in reality. You won't be doing any weekend riding as that's exactly when you need to be open (to serve people who [i]are[/i] out riding !). Be ready for those slow winter days when you literally only get one or two customers all day.
If you can afford to do it as a hobby and the income is basically pocket money then crack on, it sounds like a lovely lifestyle. If you need to make a living from it then be absolutely sure of the implications before you jump.
There was someone on here who took over/started up a coffee shop near a train station, fair bit of info on the thread. Try searching singletrack only via google advanced search to find it, couple of years ago I reckon.
He'll be waaaay too busy to post on here obviously.
Are you working now? If not maybe you (or your other half) could get a part time job in a cafe to learn the ropes?
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/long-shot-how-much-to-open-a-coffee-shop-opened-today
Irrespective of the ~17K it cost them to set up, it looks from their FB page that they sold up this year.
I live in N. Wales and have had stray thoughts about this. Lots of scope I think as cafes are mostly pretty woeful, particularly given the tourist and potential local trade. Best in the area is [url= http://www.cafesnowdon.co.uk/ ]Cafe Gwynant[/url], but lots of scope for another if the site is right (think roads to trails/roadie routes).
You certainly won't earn a bucketload. My friend runs a local cafe/restaurant and he reckons he is one of the few ones in town which isn't being subsidised by a wealthy parent/spouse.
Location, experience,quality of food and staff, and price.
I visit north wales quite often and there doesnt seem to be a shortage of cafes, also a lot of places are so quiet from november to march, not much passing trade for a lot of them.
are we talking a cycle or granny friendly cafe?
Really depends on how it is done. If a bog-standard Kaf, then there's quite a few. Once you begin to add outdoorsyness, bike-friendliness, poss' teaming with a local mechanic for weekends, offer of well-researched excellent food (small range/high quality), hosting of local club events, engagement with community and so on – there's a lot of scope.
Summer will undoubtedly be busier, particularly mid-week, but locals are always looking for good stuff and are will to drive/cycle for tasty food.
by the time you offer all that people want the profit will make you wish you could be busking I'm guessing.
To make a small business work the "free" labour has to do the majority of the work, your pay is your profit, if you pay somebody to do it it comes out of your profit.
Buy a pub instead. Then spend your days pissed, and being really cantankerous, and arguing with customers.
Much more fun than serving them lattes
by the time you offer all that people want the profit will make you wish you could be busking I'm guessing.
True - time/profit relationship will not be great. When I've thought about doing it, it's a lifestyle thing with house paid and some cash in the bank. Definitely sustainable though and all suggestions can lead to revenue.
Take your money and retire.Time is the most valuable thing you have. Don't waste it. As above your certainly not going to have lots of income and time off from it so why invest in it? Take the rose tinted speck''s off
Thanks for the advice, like I said we've a fair while to look into it properely.
I've the potential to "retire" in July 2023, but i'll only be 40 so will have to do something for the rest of my life.
No plans to earn loads, enough to be happy is basically what i'm on now -£10k, which should be doable with a Cafe type place.
We've experience and drive to make it happen and make it run smoothly, and almost certainly ran better than some other places. I've visions of a very bike-friendly place, but it depends where we end up exactly. Llanrwst sounds good for me, but I think it's a tiny bit too rural for 'er-indoors.
Good luck in Llanrwst.
Make sure you have bloody good wellies and you probably won't get any insurance due to the high flood risk.
You can stand in the water waving goodbye to your money.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/3528409.stm
You haven't really thought this through have you OP.
Take your money and go on a world trip.
When your skint come home and collect trolleys at Tesco or wherever.
No, we haven't thought it through, it might surprise you to hear that I came here first for viewpoints.
We're at the very start of considering this, the very start or researching, the start of looking into things that we'll need to, areas that are more suitable than others etc. whether we take on a current established business or start a new one.
LOTS of things to look into. One of which is whether I'll get more riding in hills than I do now, living in Lincolnshire.
Newest and close to being best in town(if you can get a seat)
USP is home baking. She held a competition open to local bakers to supply the cafe with cakes. I believe all were successful winners 😀
@Conan - if it goes beyond an enjoyable daydream and you want to chat, let me know (email in profile) 🙂
Llanwrst not a bad place, but I think there's better (it also actually has a few decent cafes!).
My sister in law owns a cafe in Manchester. The only thing that keeps her afloat is the corporate buffet style food she delivers for lunchtimes. Oh, and she's manically busy for very little return. I think unless you have a niche there is really no money in it whatsoever. I don't think you can solely rely on passing trade/tourists. On the other hand, my mate who owns a burger bar in the student area of Brizzle is doing very well! But he did get in on the gormet burger thing years ago.
Set up a weekend bike cafe but had some funding as it is a community project and have looked at the possibility of a full time cafe as I was made redundant.
Minimum around £20k to set up and probably around 2/3 years to just break even. That's the nutshell according to my research and chats with friends who own cafes. We break even but don't pay ourselves so work that one out!
Oh yeah and my riding time has decreased dramatically!
@saxabar - I will take you up on that at some point.
I think the next few years will involve some weekend trips to Wales to get a better idea of what's about!
My 2p with some years catering experience.
If you want to make money (even 10K) you'll want a fairly big place that is somewhere that has trade all week long and all year round.
A village would not be somewhere I'd be looking.
Whilst on holiday this year I met a guy who had been the landlord in a pub. He said he'd sacked it off as it was long hours, not a lot of money, and very little time off.
His current job is as a delivery driver for Tescos. Steady money, hours to suit and no hassles.
Hi, that original post was me! We set of one up from scratch.
In nutshell it's quite hard but not terribly so if you set it up right and if you work for yourself you can make a decent wage.
but
you need a good location,
a really well worked out pricing and cost structure,
Be absolutely on top of supply chain costs else you will lose your margin
Be nice to everyone even if they are difficult
You also need to think about the VAT threshold. Once you go above you really need turnover to be 20percent higher else there is no benefit of going that high. Staffing can be hard to get decent people - we had some who stole.
As a regular income stream later in life I think it's a nice job. Meet lots of interesting people. But you have to approach with a business hat on as the margins are quite small.
Happy to give more details over the phone if that helps. But do I regret it? Not at all
We sold it a few months ago as we moved to the south west to be closer to family but it's still running and makes about the same as we did.
LLanwrst, was there a few weks ago on a sunday, more life in the church yard, well worth a visit, than the town, 2 chip shops, closed, 1 spar shop, open and and another food shop, no cafes we could find open.Bike shop closed in fact nearly every shop and buisness was closed.
But a lovely part of wales with Gwydr forest and betws nearby.
I never fail to be amazed by the number of cafes in Wales that are closed at the exact time evreyone wants to eat.
I fancy getting one of these though
http://shop.lego.com/en-GB/Bike-Shop-Caf%C3%A9-31026
this
His current job is as a delivery driver for Tescos. Steady money, hours to suit and no hassles.
pub game limited returns now for hours and life style
coffee shops ditto
known people who have made money in the 1970/80 and 90 but so hard now
One way to drastically reduce the risk would be to sub let an existing restaurant that doesn't open in the the mornings. Run a cafe for mornings only, with no property worries. The danger is they kick you out and run it themselves.
Went to Petes Eats in the summer
Several times in fact
Immense - how a cafe should be. Kids loved it, decent enough food, not crazy prices, laid back, interesting clientele...will deffo head back there when I can
[i]I've the potential to "retire" in July 2023, but i'll only be 40 so will have to do something for the rest of my life.
No plans to earn loads, enough to be happy is basically what i'm on now -£10k, which should be doable with a Cafe type place.
[/i]
If you are having to work after retirement (for whatever reason), you've not retired.
I too thought I'd retire at 50, when I was in my 30's - the 2008 Financial 'mess' stopped that...
Went to Petes Eats in the summerSeveral times in fact
Immense - how a cafe should be. Kids loved it, decent enough food, not crazy prices, laid back, interesting clientele...will deffo head back there when I can
I used to go back every so often but realised it was just low end food mostly, crap sliced white bread for toasties etc. cheap breakfast stuff more a truck stop in an outdoors town. But it seems to rake in the cash/be busy so muct be something in it.
In nutshell it's quite hard but not terribly so if you set it up right and if you work for yourself you can make a decent wage.
The acid test, would you make more running it or working in it?
If you only need an annual income of around £10K, you'd be better off just working for someone else. The cost of setting up a business will mean you effectively earn nothing for the first couple of years anyway. In fact it's worse than earning nothing, you actually pay to earn nothing.
It sounds like your motive is to be near the hills for more riding, so why not just move to North Wales, get a modest £10K job with flexible hours and ride your bike? It will be easier for sure.
But if you really want to be self-employed, there are loads of small man-in-a-van type franchises kicking around that would probably meet your income aspirations and give you plenty of free time. Obviously if you actually do want to run a cafe (and not just as a means to more biking) then go for it!
b r - Member
If you are having to work after retirement (for whatever reason), you've not retired.I too thought I'd retire at 50, when I was in my 30's - the 2008 Financial 'mess' stopped that...
"Retire" as in, leave my current job and draw a pension.
Sounds like in a lot of cases it's more effort than it's worth, however there's potential in the right place in the right area serving the right stuff with a smile.
Will be keeping an eye out on places that are selling up!