thepodge yes thats exactly what we are saying. Both ends if it's a post 2016 83mm BB GeoMetron. Front end for pre-2016 versions.
Northwind,perhaps a slight exaggeration.
The upside is if you pay your £200 refundable demo cost you can try any or all the combo's before you buy.
Different travel - shock change
Different/combined wheel size - fork change.
Chainstay length is now adjustable by 5mm with a chip.
TBH it's all a huge advantage ime- sure, it's confusing for punters but this isn't the sort of bike you expect to just read a bikeradar review then google for the best online price, so having to work through choice shouldn't really be a downside. But being able to evolve such an expensive bike, that's really something. It's like what we do with bushings, anglesets etc (and yeah shock length and wheels and going up and down sizes), but done properly, with resources. All very cool.
Chainline
Have you played around with running the 155mm travel with a 350mm BB height running 29 back and front.
thanks
BlakeC. Hehe. That was actually my next job having done it with the 170mm and been so happy with it.
Although on different terrain and after a bit more time on 29 version.
i was going to test the 155mm setup like that this weekend and to check setup and config.
I'd like to try it 170/170 too but as CP pointed out I'd need to use the non ebike fork, I can run the 40 as a 170mm 29 in the summer as no mudguard isn't so bad, it's fine with a MM. More clearance still with a Minion. Wonder if a Shorty has plenty of clearance...hmmm.
I miss the 40 and I've got adjustable clamps so can do the 29 with different offset tests...mwahahahaja
One thing at a time. I'll test 155mm with 350mm BB height.
Shakedown ride pics.
[img][url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4312/35455849934_39d5f19d5f_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4312/35455849934_39d5f19d5f_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/W27uVu ]IMG_1100[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pilot/ ]Phil[/url], on Flickr[/img]
[img][url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4295/36289565075_21cee5076e_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4295/36289565075_21cee5076e_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/XhMvot ]IMG_1112[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pilot/ ]Phil[/url], on Flickr[/img]
Watch out for the pebbles 😛
yeah and the super loose surface over hard on the corners on lower cliff...an interesting first ride shakedown on a bike you want to be driving the front on for a young girl....
Right-click the image and "Copy Image Address"
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New set of stans flows on the way.
Cheers
Did you swap out the chainstay/swingarm for some reason?
Going back to the 29/650 in the same frame thing if we don't mind.
One of the reasons I like (or thought I liked) 29ers is the larger bb drop and the stability / confidence this brings. Wouldn't you lose this with a Geometron otherwise the bb would be too low with 650 wheels?
The chainstay was changed to a 450mm to give a bit more clearance and slightly longer wheel base.
The BB is at 347mm and I like it, it handles amazingly well for what I like. You do need to be slightly more forceful with it, but Im 6'2 and 94kg so I feels more in proportion for me, if that's true or not I don't know.
thepodge
There is no need for additional stability with a GeoMetron! It's back to that sum of the parts thing.
When swopping between 29 full or 29/27.5 or the hybrid I am adjusting the BB to suit using the shock chip or offset bushes or a combo of both to get what I'm after. this creates some adjustments to the HA and SA but entirely within desired limits on a GeoMetron due to the already very steep SA.
I had previously found when lowing the BB/big BB drop on the 29's it created too much side to side stability in my early designs unless superlight Carbon wheels were used and even then I found you could go too low.
I didn't need that much stability with a GeoMetron for other reasons (HA, WB) and it just hindered (for my style) rapid cornering in back to back bermed corners for example the like you find at BPW and such. I found I needed to use more hips to get it turned. LEss of an issue for a bigger or more forceful bloke e.g. A Steve Jones.
Chris initially tried it with the higher BB and crashed so decided it wasn't for him, but he has since tried it on a few other tracks and liked it.
I was running 340mm with the 29 wheels and 335-338mm with the 27.5 and 27.5/29
The hybrid is different again with a different axis for turning on and a different turn radius front vs rear.
I put the 29 up to 350mm (I suggested to CP this would be preferable with the 29) which creates a -20mm drop rather than the -30mm (or the -17mm of the 27.5 don't know what you'd say about the hybrid but it feels really nice!)and I find it transforms the feel/steering of the bike. This is achieved through either using the 216mm shcok in the 222 position OR the 222 shock in 222 but with two offset bushes.
I think I've posted the angles here before, all using a 160mm 29er E-bike fork and a Stans Bravo with a MM or Shorty and a Bravo/Morso rear combo.
When I run hybrid (Still my preferred set up, just steers and carves so great and lighter un spung on the rear) I run it in the correct shock position for whichever shock and with one offset bush to give the 340mm BB height.
I'm not using the 27.5 front at the moment as rather liking the 29 steering at these HA's and offsets. It seems a sweet combination of between HA/trail/flop.
I can't say its a definite 'advantage' it's just really nice.
Have I overcomplicated it?
I like that Paul J. Looks clean. I like the raw CS with black frame.
That chainline was what paul shep had kicking about at mojo, but I do agree I'd be keen for a full raw swing arm and black front triangle.
It's a bit of a test platform for a future custom from mojo for myself.
Chainline, it wouldn't be possible to lower the BB but not slacken the SA any more? I had wondered lowering the forks to 170 or 160 then an angle set along with high flip chip?
Chainline - with the coil G13 conversion what happens to the handling? I assume the BB is higher which will clearly have an effect but is it noticeable?
Chainline, thanks for that. When I moved to 29 I also went significantly slacker and longer so I'm maybe over was giving too much bias towards the bb drop.
I've not tried it Gotama. I think the BB should be maintained. When we have discussed the mod the proposal was to use the space created by the chip in low (which would normally drop the bb and slacken the SA/HA) to add the additional stroke given the same length shock.
Mojo are at Ard Rock over the weekend with it and I may pop up for a day with the NSL as I've the only built up one..
For me, this mod with a -2 angleset would bring the G13 in that spec to a slightly lighter (only very slightly shorter travel) version of the G16 in short travel mode with a fork bush maintenance friendly but still super slack HA. Sounds good to me.
I need to get a shock in...
Interesting. I've only ever run mine in low, might pop it into high at some point and see how it rides.
It just feels a touch taller and a teeny touch longer. as mentioned, with the angleset it will be 'corrected'.
New set of stans flows on the way.
I was thinking that Crest might be on borrowed time...
I would be very tempted by the 170mm 29er, the G13 is quicker for me on a lot of stuff but nowhere near as forgiving as the original 27.5 Geometron.
Chris rode with a Crest front for ages without problems. A boost one should be stronger.
Shandy, I found similar for my old body on rougher stuff. obviosuly 155mm std GeoMetron also more. Maybe trying the 148mm rear G13 and 150mm up front would get you to the right place.
Anyone get to ArdRock and demo a GeoMetron or the G13 LT?
With Eurobike at the end of the month I wonder if Nicolai are due to bring out any more models or is it all about the new eboxx and xc frame?
I'd still love a 27.5 G13 (or even 120mm rear) prob with 140mm forks up front and 2.6 tyres. Nice short travel flickable bike with the stability the long wheel base provides.
It would be ace but don't fancy the custom upcharge cost to get one
A few people have said they'd like short travel Geometrons but Chainline has said they can make the big bikes feel like short ones. Chris Porter also tells a story of giving an early Geometron to an xc racer and lying about the travel, he thought it had 40mm less front and rear and was raving about how good it was.
I still think I'd go for the Saturn with Geometron inspired geometry tweaks.
You have to be careful of disaggregating suspension curves and travel.
Thing to do is try a GeoMetron with 155/160mm setup but after a request to CP for a bike that rides like a 130m/140mm bike.
Short stroking a rear shock and a front fork is well within Chris's capabilities and the Geometry remains correct.
You could then back to back against a ful travel bike configured to feel in a way you like, which I think is much more what you'd prefer rather than being as crude as X or Y travel.
My G13 is now rocking a -2 degree angleset.
Next addition to the bike will be the LT conversion. I do regret not ordering a G16 given how I am using the bike though.
I think there might be a misconception that people want a 180/170/160mm travel bike irrespective of if it can be set up to feel like a 120-130mm travel bike.
Being over 6 foot I'd quite like a nice long reach but I actually would quite like a 120mm rear travel bike (140mm front ideally). I'd like the edges to be taken of rough ground so you still have to pick lines, that's fun, rather than 170mm which obliterates objects in its path.
Rik, have you looked at the Bird Aeris 120? The XL has a 500mm seat tube and 517mm reach.
Another option would be to see if you can put a longer eye to eye shock on the G13 to raise the BB so it can be used with 27.5 wheels, or get a 200x50 custom shock for a G16 and use it with a shorter travel but 29 fork to maintain the A2C.
Anyone get to ArdRock and demo a GeoMetron or the G13 LT?
What rear travel is the G13 LT ?
148mm. Which is very close to a G16 155mm 😉
Was out on the G16 and the hacked G13 at the weekend in Hebden. Angles on a -2 G13 are the same as 29er G15 within 0.5deg HA, except BB is lower in low.
Rick, sounds to me like a G13 set up progressive and with 140mm front (pretty much as mine is, max spacers in rear and 140mm 36) and with -2 would be right up your street.
Help required, I would like a 29 geometron but not a standard g13, what are my other options here. A g16 with 29 wheels (bb height,angles)? I am 6ft 6' and 17 stone. What would be recommended
Cheers
Bigmagoo. I am similar height to you and ordered a mojo g16 XXL to run 29 wheels. Bb height and angles will need to weight until it arrives and is built. But I am expecting something similar to what chainline has already posted
Blakec , happy days! I would love to hear how it works out for you . I
realise that there is talk else where on this forum about the mojo g16
and 29 wheels ,but not on a xl/xxl as far as I know (will read through again). What sort of time for a xl/xxl frame from mojo.
Bigmagoo Mojo usually have stock, but I'll check. angles will be exactly the same as I have posted per each config if you use my recommended BB height but that's within your gift you might prefer it higher or lower.
You can read across from my Longest to the XL and XXL
If you do want one then a test with Mojo at BPW or similar is a no brainer as the cost just gets taken off the frame and you get exactly the setup you want off the bat.
At your height I'd say you should try both XL and XXL to see which you prefer as before really I think your riding style makes a difference. The natural suggestion would be the XXL.
I think I'd probably recommend the e-bike 36 fork for someone of your size too for the added stiffness.
Bacially you're looking at a 62 deg HA,~ 76.5 SA and ~350mm bb height (depending on tyres) for the 155mm version and similar for the 170mm with 2 offset bushes but slightly slacker HA and SA.
Right....
I've sold my DH bike and my every day hardtail is in bits. I need a bike and I'm looking at the Geometron again. I want something for slogging around the Peak all day and occasional uplift days. Plus I want something I can take to Whistler next year without kicking myself for selling the DH bike.
I'm an ex downhiller who loves it fast and rough but I'm trying to embrace pedalling. I've recently moved to Sheffield and just started exploring the Peak District. This is why I think I might be better off on something lighter and more sprightly. But then I'd feel like I needed another bike for when I want to get 'gnarly' etc.
I don't want to mess around with angle headsets and offset bushings and stuff. I want all those decisions made for me! Is anyone riding a 'normal' off the shelf G16 without any extra mods?
Can anyone tell me why I shouldn't buy one? I haven't read a bad word about them and I'm getting suspicious. I want to know what the downsides are. Why should I not just buy the new Enduro 29?
Anyone know who the Sheffield Geometron rider is? I've seen it on the move at high speed and couldn't grab him for a closer look!
Ok, not sure who the Sheffield rider is. Lots of people riding a std GeoMetron!
I am mostly. I just like the 29 front, which in 155mm setup requires no anglesets or bushes to use a 29 or 27.5 rear wheel if you felt like the 29 version was better for longer more pedally rides or indeed just preferred it.
Haven't used an angleset on a G16 since we introduced the 16/17 with 62 HA with the 180mm fork.
The most popular setup is still std geoMetron with 27.5 front and rear.
What are the downsides, erm, its 2lb heaver than a carbon bike. not the cheapest frame out there.
Thats about it.
You can build it to about 30lbs all up with light wheels and tyres or 31.5lbs with stronger wheels/tyres, incl pedals.
Its likely to outlast a nuclear attack.
For £200 you can tray any permutation you like and get the attention of a suspension and setup specialist then get it deducted off the cost, best investment in deciding if it's for you.
The weight is not an issue in my book and I'm old and not that fit!
Ok, ok. I want one. I think.
I really, really need to ride one. No way I can get to south Wales for a proper demo any time in the near future.
In the meantime, if I see that local one flying past again I'll give chase. Let's see if I can catch him on my 26" Bfe.
A guy I know has one but he's no longer in Sheffield, hasn't been for a year or so.
Thank you Chainline for your response. I am going to look into a trip over for a demo , still concerned about the 350 mm bb height on the g16 and/or the slacker seat angle on the g13. I will give the mojo a shout today.
What's the MTB company that used to recommend asymmetric wheel sizes based on a riders height?....i always liked that idea, made sense to me.
My own experiments of putting 26 inch wheels in the back of 650b bikes has worked well, it drops the BB, and further slackens out the front, in fact it's how I'll be running my bike in the Trail Bike category of next year's BDS.
Liteville us4d do thar.. was based on rider height although poor tyre clearance was a part of it too
I've got the angleset on my G13 as per Chainlines advice. It makes a fun bike even faster.
Well worth the upgrade. Just mulling over that coil shock now.
So, all you folks with anglesets, what head angles have your bikes got now? Mine is running 64 degrees, and I'm intuiged to know how slack you've all gone, and how it changed the ride?
Generally recommending getting to 62deg as a balance of slack and not requiring extra attention to lowers servicing to keep the fork running sweet.
-2 on a G13 brings it to 62.5 and a 77 seat angle with a 335mm BB. Spot on. 62 for the LT version with 150mm front, 148mm rear.
Pre 2016, 73mm BB G16s with a std 63 HA with the 180mm fork benefit from a -1 headset in my opinion.
How does it change the ride. 63 and below gives a noticeably quicker steering response and corner initiation at speed due to the increased flop, it pushes the front further out and allows significant weighting to drive grip on the front and carve with a reduced risk of tucking the front.
Not everyone likes the slow speed flop/rapid drop or turn. You kind of let it turn and stop it rather than turning against resistance (its how I think of it)
The 29 front with 44mm offset at 62deg balances that out Vs the 27.5 interestingly and i think creates a really nicely weighted, progressive and responsive front even at these very slack angles and mid offsets.
At the point of hitting the button on a bike here , just stressing about the bb height on the g16 with 29 wheels ,is 350 mm the lowest it will go, I am coming of a bike that was 340 mm and loved it . My question is, will there be a change for the 2018 models on the geo ?
Like most other brands there is a compromise on the bb height to accommodate both wheel sizes , any advise would be much appreciated.
What was the other bike?
I wouldn't get too worked up about the static BB height, the G16 has a bit more travel to get through anyway. The 29 wheels, front centre and chainstay will all make the bike more stable. The right head angle and BB drop will both make it easier to turn.
You were talking about going "over" to Mojo, if you mean over from Ireland I've a G13 with a -2 angleset and an original G16 you could maybe try.
Hello Shandy , the other bike was a mega290 and a stumpy 29 , I'd love to get a look/ spin on those bikes , I'm based in Bangor . I think we have a mutual friend ,Belfast bike repair .....
bigmagoo,
to save trawling through the whole thread.. I've tested it, as has Chris with several BB heights.
Based on my past experience with LT and slack 29ers and designing the Ion15 I expected taller BB height than the 27.5 with 29 wheels to facilitate side to side manoeuvrability and aid braking weight transfer.
Chris convinced me not to do that initially as he reckoned the BS BB (335mm0340mm) the same as the 27.5 would be the daddy.
So I was riding with the lower BB (It is easy to configure with 1 or 2 bushes, depending on preference) and switching between the 29 and the hybrid. I found I was having to steer the 29 at the rear with my hips in tighter corners and initiating turns and wasn't keen on that. We tried messing with the suspension/rebound trying to find something to take the feeling away. I even wondered if it was to do with the oval ring.
I then decided to revert back to the higher BB at 350mm. It was a transformation, much nicer, more neutral feel all round, I didn't feel it was hard to get stopped and never gave the side to side agility a thought.
As mentioned by Shandy, Chris and I think this is a lot to do with the dynamic ride height and the steering axis. No definitive answers but the result of the higher BB for me was a 29er I enjoyed riding rather than one that frustrated me.
The GeoMetron does sit into its travel and then hit quite firm support at the sag point.
Interestingly 350mm delivers the same BB drop as the 27.5 version.
Summary is if you want to drop the BB you can get it to 340mm in 155 travel setting. That low isn't possible with 170mm rear travel. you can deliver 350mm with the 170mm.
In terms of will the geo change. If I was being picky I'd increase the SA to 78deg static, but it would make no difference in the real world.
At the point of hitting the button on a bike here
I'm there myself. Just struggling to part with the cash until I've at least sat on one. Not sure what size I should be on.
Thank you Chainline, great information ,I just need to get it bought.......
Cheers
Get her bought Dave, i really want a go on one 😀
where abouts are you sharkattack?
Im Stamford Lincs with a medium G16 if you want sit on one
Im Stamford Lincs with a medium G16 if you want sit on one
I'm in Sheffield mate, thanks for the offer.
If you want to come and sample any of the many, many local delights I'd be glad to show you around. As long as I could take your bike through a few jumps and boulder fields 😉
I think I'd want a medium (Longer). Even if I'm not going all out size wise, it would still be vastly longer than my last DH bike and I didn't consider that thing slow at the time.
I'm also confused about colour. I wanted to build the blackest bike of all time. Completley de-stickered, logo free, goth chariot. But some of the shiny alloy ones look amazing. I might put a little colour in my life.
Isn't sharkattack in Sheffield too?
You should club together and time share.
Isn't sharkattack in Sheffield too?
Oops...Sorry that was me.
Accidentally reactivated an ancient account on a work computer! Not surprising, I am in a bike shop.
Confusion over. Yes it was me that wanted to build a Goth bike.
When I tried one (albeit just round the car park) the large felt perfectly normal despite me being a few inches shorter than its intended rider.
If I was dropping that much cash I'd have to go try the sizes out or I'd be always wondering "what if"
cheers for the offer sharkattack/tomm, quite busy over the next few weeks though.
i went for blacker than black and wish I had gone for a colour now as the anodising is a pig to keep clean, so I dont bother:-)
sofaking, use something akin to WD40/GT85 on the ano, works a treat. Or the 'quick detailing' fluids they use on cars/tyres.
Hi chainline. yes. i have cleaned it a few times with a light oil, but seems like a bit a pointless excercise 🙂 so i just keep seals etc nice and clean
Out of interest chainline, what size of bike does Chris ride, is it a xl or Xxl?
Must admit I am toying with the idea of building a G19 perhaps with some 180mm 36s.
Use it as a DH bike I can cruise back up the fire road.
Must admit I am toying with the idea of building a G19 perhaps with some 180mm 36s.Use it as a DH bike I can cruise back up the fire road.
I'd rather have a full bore G19 with 40's and a dropper post! Considering some people are running G16's with 40's anyway.
The G19 looks amazing. But I've just sold a DH bike and I need to resist going down that route again. This is a very smart looking bike...
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G19's are lush, but are a lot shorter than the G13/16 bikes. They're long for a DH bike but not for a trail bike.
Must admit I am toying with the idea of building a G19 perhaps with some 180mm 36s.
Use it as a DH bike I can cruise back up the fire road
Not a bad idea......one at the weekend would'nt fit on the uplift trailer 😐
one at the weekend would'nt fit on the uplift trailer
I just heard this the other day. Someone said the uplift at Revolution turned him away with his extra longest G16 because it wouldn't fit.
That would be a bummer. It's a long way to Wales to realise you wasted your time and money.
I've got an uplift day booked at BPW in November and I'd be on at least a Longer G16.
The G19 and a longest G16 fitted.....just about and with a extra strap.If it won't fit on the trailer then there's not a lot they can do really.The uplift road is steep and pretty rough.The bikes have to be secure.
Don't know what trailers BPW use.
I've a long/small with 2.3 tyres on 31.8 internal rims and always fitted on uplift trailers but it is always a squeeze. I think uplifts are going to have to look at tweaking their trailers as bikes get longer and tyres wider
Problem being you've got to accommodate small sized 26" wheel bikes all the way to (shortly) 29" xl downhill bikes.Ideally with it not taking ages to load them each time.
And it not costing ££££'s to adapt already bought trailers.
I understand the problem, I've the same problem getting my bikes and my other (4'11") half's bikes on the car 🙂 but I'm only 5'8" and there are some lanky people out there wanting 2.5, 2.6 or even 2.8 tyres on their bikes.
I've had my Longest on at least a dozen different trailers since I got it. Most of the proper set-ups have bolts or straps to adjust to the different wheel sizes. After that if everyone loads their bike in the same place every time it all runs smoothly. BPW you could be using a different trailer every time but they have them set up so the longest bikes always go closest to the front of the trailer.
Chris uses his at BPW.
Chris is riding an XXL by the way but wants to do some XXL XL back to backs.
The G19 has a slacker ST too. They didn't take up our recommendations unfortunately.
You can do just as ku h on a G16 with 40s at 170mm as a G19 bar WC courses and Jacob Reading did those initially.
KU H?
So the G16 can get to the same geometry as the G19? The chainstays are longer in the G19 and the reach longer on the G16. What's the impact only either on handling?
I've preferred my G13 slacker with a shortened reach of the angleset. This is why the G19 intrigues me.
Chainline, what is he's generally feeling about the xxl, and why the feeling to test back to back with the xl. When will the 2018 models be available?, sorry for all the questions.
chain line? hi been following this thread regarding the 29er g16 I'm definitely interested. so am i right in saying if i have my fork lowers swapped to 29er lowers and travel adjusted from 180 to 160, and put 2 offset bushes on my 170 travel shock i can run it as a lt 29er with the same bb drop as currently is as a g16 mojo special addition? if so how does it compare in trail to trail feel, faster, easier,slower harder? i have no idea as i have no experience with 29er bikes. must say i love the bike as is and don't want to embark on a path if it is going to upset what i have. oh one last thing, whats the deal with the angled headset and why? many thanks al.
Sharkattack, my g16 longest hybrid fitted on BPW trailers, but only on front half. If you are back if queue then chat to the peps in front or call out to the driver as he normally helps load bikes.
BIGMAN, KU H? - dodgy typing on phone. should have said as much..
bigmagoo - Chris is only just 6'1" the XXL is upsizing considerably relative to Chris's size. As ever he is seeing the effect, pushing the boundary to see what too much or too big looks like, is it faster, is it slower etc.
alheginbottom - yes thats what I'm saying except for
The BB height isn't quite as low as the original Mojo special 29er, but in my opinion it works better at 350mm.
How does it feel. It's personal. It's a great 29er. If you make the changes on the front you can then experiment with a 27.5 rear and just use one bush in the shock. That set up feels very close to a std 27.5 180mm GeoMetron but with a slightly different steering feel and initiation (I like it)
The 29er is slightly harder work to manoeuvre than the 27.5 version in my opinion, no surprise there, it's an individual view as to whether it is better or not. I'd borrow a 29er rear wheel to suit if you can or choose a cheap one initially to see. swop between that and 27.5 rear back to back. changing the wheel and the one bush takes less than 5mins total if you have a cassette on the wheel. slightly long er if not but not a long job.
Best done on a single trail you know so the differences are obvious. Basically the hybrid turns tighter, more naturally with less effort than the full 29.
BIGMAN, it's hard to say its less reach as the angleset also changes the relationship with the front wheel and how you drive it.
you can set up the bikes one size apart to a very similar cockpit with either a reach adjust headset/stem and bar roll, hence my Longest has the same cockpit as my previous longer, just the bike itself is longer.
You could size down, set the cockpit up to be very close and buy the longer chainstay chip if you wished..