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Crickey!
The poor chap's had a tough time!
I'm building up a bike with my first ever all carbon forks (and handlebars) and I must admit to being a tad nervous.
Hopefully the insurers will do a thorough job looking into the failure, but I'm inclined to think that the fault is most likely to lay with the Chinese manufacturers of the fork.
The article also says that Planet X had gone into administration, I hadn't realised that.
sure, but it also reads like they weren't doing their own independent testing & instead just relying on the word of the manufacturer 🤷♂️ You get what you pay for I guess! Really rough result for the chap though. I know 99.999999% of the time you'd be fine, but Chinese forks is just not something I could ever bring myself to put on one of my bikes.but I’m inclined to think that the fault is most likely to lay with the Chinese manufacturers of the fork.
but Chinese forks is just not something I could ever bring myself to put on one of my bikes.
Most carbon forks on the market are of Chinese manufacture.
Ugh, what happened to the warning when clicking through to Daily Wail links (I didn't read the URL).
That's very sad but I couldn't see past the poorly/well placed banana in that article
Unrelated to this but if anyone has a PX Tempest from that 2020-ish era and wants to pull the fork out and post up the codes on the steerer it might be of interest
An ex colleague of mine had the same happen* with a pair of Ridley forks, so not limited to budget brands (or what is perceived as budget)
*his injuries not so bad, but still broken back and neck, lots of metal work later can walk but is a good few inches shorter
with a pair of Ridley forks
could be from the same supplier, not sure who makes that PX fork though
I bet Canyon are made up one of their bikes features in that article's pictures.
🙄 obviously I am referring to the cheap-n-cheerful ones with dubious quality control rather than something from a reputable manufacturer
I know who makes PX frames (and I am guessing forks too) and they do indeed make forks for quite alot of bigger, or at least much more expensive brands.
I think they have more than one supplier. Some of their frames are/were known open mold supplier's but not all.
Poor guy, that's grim. I know where it happened and that grass is pretty smooth.
To echo posts above, I also know a guy who had forks snap on a pricey bike, a Wilier roadie. Happened going uphill on tarmac, and he's not really a big powerful guy.
He gained some new teeth, and a very wonky nose out of it.
That's really bad luck especially as he says he was going about 15 mph. Did it snap at the crown or the stem? I don't think it says.
When people post links to forks I always say Id rather have a cheap Chinese carbon fork from planet x or other company than an unknown from Ebay becuase they have proper insurance. Yes, they might fight it but at least you've something to try and claim against.
As others have said, it's probably the same as all the other companies.
My new trek 1120 fork is a ali steerer bonded in. Not sure it's any better or worse but made me wonder why they have changed the design.
@Hambini mentioned something on one of his videos recently about an insurance claim he was asked to write a report on. Wonder if it's this one or if there's loads of them (on failures, not against px)
@brucewee good call, text here -
NHS doctor, 30, who broke his spine and was paralysed after his £2,300 all-terrain bike 'sheared in two' while going downhill sues firm for £10million<br />Dr Daniel Gordon suffered life-changing injuries when his bike fell apart in 2020<br />He is now suing the insurers behind the Sheffield-based bike company for £10m<br />By DAN WOODLAND
PUBLISHED: 10:44, 27 November 2023 | UPDATED: 11:00, 27 November 2023<br />A doctor who broke his spine and became paralysed after his brand-new bike fell apart while going down a hill is suing for £10 million compensation.
Dr Daniel Gordon, 30, suffered life-changing injuries when the forks of his £2,300 all-terrain gravel bike 'sheared in two' as he rode through the grounds of the hospital where his girlfriend worked in Inverness, Scotland, in July 2020.
The keen cyclist, who was working as a junior doctor at Raigmore Hospital, was only travelling at around 15mph before the bike collapsed beneath him, throwing him to the ground.
He underwent spinal surgery and then months of rehabilitation, but devastating spinal injuries have left him paralysed, with no use of his lower body, making him dependant on a wheelchair.
He is now fighting for £10 million in compensation from the insurers behind the Sheffield-based bike designers, builders and sellers Planet X who sold him the bike. They deny that it was defective or that any defect caused the accident.
Dr Daniel Gordon (pictured), 30, broke his spine and became paralysed after his brand-new bike fell apart while going down a hill is suing for £10 million compensation
He suffered life-changing injuries when the forks of his £2,300 all-terrain gravel bike 'sheared in two' as he rode through the grounds of the hospital where his girlfriend worked in Inverness, Scotland, in July 2020
Dr Gordon is now fighting for £10 million in compensation from the insurers behind the Sheffield-based bike designers, builders and sellers Planet X who sold him the bike<br />+6<br />View gallery<br />Dr Gordon is now fighting for £10 million in compensation from the insurers behind the Sheffield-based bike designers, builders and sellers Planet X who sold him the bike
According to claim documents, Dr Gordon grew up in England but moved to Scotland to pursue his medical training in 2018, working as a junior doctor at Raigmore Hospital, in Inverness.
He is a keen and experienced on and off-road cyclist and in July 2020 purchased from the company a £2,300 Planet X Tempest SRAM Force 1 titanium gravel bike.
Dr Gordon's barrister, Nathan Tavares KC, said in his claim: 'On the evening of 20th August 2020, the claimant took the bike out on its first proper test ride since purchasing it.
'The bike appeared to the claimant to be properly set up and without any obvious defect or safety issue.
'The claimant commenced his journey on the A82 Glenurquhurt Road in Inverness and travelled north along the edge of the Caledonian canal before branching off to New Craigs Hospital.
'The bike was not fitted with any bags or luggage. The claimant wore a helmet.
'Upon leaving the hospital location at around 9pm, he rode the bike down a grassy slope situated off a track running through the hospital grounds known as New Craigs Forresters.
'In the course of descending the grass slope at a speed of about 25 km per hour (15.5 mph), which is terrain and a speed the claimant will say ought to have been well within the capabilities of the bike, the carbon fibre front forks suddenly and without warning sheared in two at the base of the steerer tube, causing the front wheel of the bike to collapse rearwards.
'This resulted in the claimant falling forwards heavily, impacting the ground whereupon he sustained severe life changing injuries.'
According to claim documents, Dr Gordon grew up in England but moved to Scotland to pursue his medical training in 2018, working as a junior doctor at Raigmore Hospital, in Inverness
<br />He is a keen and experienced on and off-road cyclist and in July 2020 purchased from the company a £2,300 Planet X Tempest SRAM Force 1 titanium gravel bike (pictured)
He was initially treated at Raigmore Hospital in Inverness before he was transferred to the Scottish Spinal Injuries Centre at Queen Elizabeth University Hospital, Glasgow.
After vowing that his life was 'not over,' Dr Gordon has gone on to forge a new future as a disabled athlete, competing in para-triathlons, while resuming his studies.
Mr Tavares said: 'At the time of the accident, the claimant was a Foundation Year 2 doctor at Raigmore Hospital, Inverness,' his barrister says.
'He lived with his Italian partner, now his fiancée, who is also a trainee doctor.
'In February 2021 they moved to more suitable wheel-chair accessible ground floor accommodation. He subsequently returned to his medical training and now works 80% of full time.
'His career options in medicine are now severely curtailed and he is significantly handicapped on the labour market.
'The claimant and his partner have not yet decided in which country they will live and pursue their medical careers once they completed their training..'
His lawyers blame Planet X Limited for supplying a 'defective' bike to Dr Gordon, which his barristers claims had 'dangerously weak front forks.'
Planet X's marketing for the bike stated: 'Tempest is our flowingly fast and comfortably confident titanium gravel bike that gives you the freedom to ride wherever you want.
'Light yet tirelessly tough frame, powerful disc brakes, large volume tyres, tubeless-ready wheels and a full bike packing fixture list. The only thing Tempest doesn't have is limits.'
Dr Gordon underwent spinal surgery and then months of rehabilitation, but devastating spinal injuries have left him paralysed, with no use of his lower body, making him dependant on a wheelchair<br /><br />
The barrister continued: 'Gravel bikes are intended to be go-anywhere bikes equally at home on rough terrain as on the road.
'The claimant will say that particularly given the purpose for which the bike was marketed, the front forks should not have failed in the circumstances in which the bike was being used by him.
'Alternatively, there should have been clear and effective instructions or warnings about its unsuitability for such use.'
'Planet X failed to institute or to operate, any or any adequate system of checking or testing the safety of the bikes it produced and in particular the safety of the front forks, including in the head-set and frame they were incorporated with.
'The claimant notes in particular that the forks were not wholly made of carbon fibre and weaker glass fibres were used in structural areas of the of the forks.'
Planet X went into administration earlier this year, but Dr Gordon has pursued his claim against the company by suing its two insurers, Arch Insurance (UK) Limited and Chubb European Group SE.
In a joint defence submitted by law firms representing the two companies, they deny that Planet X was responsible for the failure of Dr Gordon's bike.
The forks had been designed to the relevant standards, had been 'appropriately tested' and were inspected by Planet X before being dispatched to Dr Gordon.
'The defendants understand that there had been no complaints to Planet X or incidents referred to Planet X similar to that made by the claimant in respect of the said forks,' they say.
The insurers say they are still investigating the damage caused to the bike, but in the meantime deny that it was defective or that any defect caused the accident.
'Planet X purchased the forks from a reputable supplier and there was evidence of the testing of the relevant products to appropriate standards, on which matters Planet X reasonably relied,' they say.
The forks were manufactured by a Chinese company which supplies 'the said forks' to 'many brands of bicycle in the UK and elsewhere' Planet X lawyers say.
According to Dr Gordon's particulars of claim, his claim is 'likely to be in the order of £10 million.'
The case has not yet reached court.
Did it snap at the crown or the stem? I don’t think it says.
At the crown.
In the course of descending the grass slope at a speed of about 25 km per hour (15.5 mph), which is terrain and a speed the claimant will say ought to have been well within the capabilities of the bike, the carbon fibre front forks suddenly and without warning sheared in two at the base of the steerer tube, causing the front wheel of the bike to collapse rearwards.
Assuming this is true, it's yet another thing that makes me wary of carbon stuff for structural stuff. What seems likely to me is that shoddy knock offs were substituted and PX didn't spot it (because it would be impossible to spot just from an external inspection.) Big companies like Giant or Trek can control the entire supply chain, but smaller companies that have to contract out will always be vulnerable to scammy suppliers.
'Planet X failed to institute or to operate, any or any adequate system of checking or testing the safety of the bikes it produced and in particular the safety of the front forks, including in the head-set and frame they were incorporated with.
'The claimant notes in particular that the forks were not wholly made of carbon fibre and weaker glass fibres were used in structural areas of the of the forks.'
Planet X went into administration earlier this year, but Dr Gordon has pursued his claim against the company by suing its two insurers, Arch Insurance (UK) Limited and Chubb European Group SE.
Well I wish I hadn’t read this now given I have a tempest
must be literally thousands and thousands on Planet X forks out there however, which aren’t snapping. Plus I believe I read of a case that occurred with giant very recently where it also snapped at the steerer join
‘In the course of descending the grass slope at a speed of about 25 km per hour (15.5 mph), which is terrain and a speed the claimant will say ought to have been well within the capabilities of the bike, the carbon fibre front forks suddenly and without warning sheared in two at the base of the steerer tube, causing the front wheel of the bike to collapse rearwards.
The bit in bold is interesting. Would have thought it would go forwards.
Not 100% sure I want to be commenting too much on this given it's not gone to court yet. But...
- Pretty sure I know where that happened - and it's 100% within the expected use of a gravel bike. Mine has had a hell of lot more clart than that.
- The guy is not a big unit. Many forks will experience way more biffer loading.
- Things fail - even well made ones. Unless you plan to test to destruction everything thing you make (therefore having nothing left to sell) stuff will get through no matter how good your QA/QC is.
- Companies have liability insurance for a reason. PX will have been coughing up for insurance for decades and this is a case of the insurance company reluctant to pay out for the service they 'provided'. I'd be rather surprised if PX were not on the side of the poor guy and want the insurance company to pay out, even if they can't state that in public. This wasn't some old bike that had led a tough life carrying previously user induced damage - it was fresh out of the box. I would hope it was immaterial how good PX's checks were - as a retailer (rather than a manufacturer) something they supplied seriously harmed someone whilst they were using it as intended. That 'should' be enough - though I'd imagine it's not in the usual nonsensical lawyerly way
Regardless of how this all ends up fair play to Daniel for getting out there, resuming his career and his love of sport. I hope he gets the pay out and in no way is that an anti PX reaction to the story.
edit
The claimant notes in particular that the forks were not wholly made of carbon fibre and weaker glass fibres were used in structural areas of the of the forks.
Yeah - that doesn't sound good does it. Assuming this was what was discovered looking at the broken bits post accident.
Poor guy. Been deaths from similar incidents.
https://bikebiz.com/carbon-fork-bonding-failure-caused-death-of-cyclist-finds-coroner/
edit ‘The claimant notes in particular that the forks were not wholly made of carbon fibre and weaker glass fibres were used in structural areas of the of the forks.’
there was a bit of a hoo ha on social media recently about loads of carbon forks having fiber glass in the steerer tube, not just carbon fiber. I don’t think it was just cheep no name Chinese forks that were guilty of this
the issue you have is this is just if not more likely to happen if the steerer is alloy. Unless you use steel forks your options are a bit limited
Went to click on the OP's link and completely forgot I had the Tea and Kittens plug in installed!
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53360123525_123d65b197.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53360123525_123d65b197.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2pifzFK ]Tea and Kittens[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr
Christ, I'm 105kgs and ragged my PX London road off and on road for a good few years, that had a carbon fork but alu steerer I think. Eventually the frame cracked at the seat tube joint with the top tube. Not unexpected if anyone remebers the big thread about the £150 F&F.
I've now got a Cotic Cascade with a Salsa Carbon fork, which has a carbon steerer. Which up to now has been great. Hopefully that continues. Although I have been thinking of susspension forks...
I did ride my PX LR down these steps a good few times. So I don't think we should all start worrying just because we have Carbon forks....
My mate is a big unit and crashed his Kaffenback into a tree stump. Forks were fine, but he bent the frame.
It's going to be a tough job to prove manufacturing fault, especially if this is a random failure. Any material can fail.
Poor guy and fair play to him for getting on with his career/life.
I’ve now got a Cotic Cascade with a Salsa Carbon fork, which has a carbon steerer.
Similar, I've also got a Cascade but with eXotic carbon fork with carbon steerer. Somewhat reassured that when I used the same fork on a titanium Planet X / Titus Mutsu frame, it was the frame that cracked and not the fork...
The bit in bold is interesting. Would have thought it would go forwards.
Possible (but unlikely from decriptions of the terrain) that it hit a bump that pushed the wheel backwards or, more likely, it sheared when he pulled the brake. Or something else I haven't thought it.
That fibre-glass revelation though - offt
montgomery
Free Member
I bet Canyon are made up one of their bikes features in that article’s pictures.
They'll just be happy that the bars are still in one piece.
So is this the kind of 'Russ Pinder fork/disk' moment that changes aspects of how we source components and bolt bikes together?
It’s going to be a tough job to prove manufacturing fault, especially if this is a random failure.
I'd spin that - it manifestly failed. The tough bit is proving beyond reasonable doubt that the bloke had not done something stupid to it prior to riding it down a grassing bank. I mean, the poor guy was in no condition to drag himself and the bike from a set of stairs like ads's and stage something more placid. The scenario it catastrophically failed will have loads of after the fact witnesses (like the ambulance crew).
Poor guy. He's a brave one and hasn't let this beat him. <br /><br />
I do worry about carbon parts in general that require torquing, 6nm ain't that high and crush damage to carbon can create an instant failure.
urgh, what a nightmare for the fella. 99 times you'll walk away, then there's that1 time. I hope he gets what he needs.
So is this the kind of ‘Russ Pinder fork/disk’ moment that changes aspects of how we source components and bolt bikes together?
Don't know really, bike deaths and serious accidents are steadily coming down, and number of miles travelled is going up so I guess bikes are becoming safer and safer.
6nm ain’t that high and crush damage to carbon can create an instant failure. <br />
what part of your carbon front end required torquing to 6nm? I use no more than 4 on the steerer, bars and shifters of my bikes and have never had any slippage
whats the proper torque for a set of roadie shifters on carbon bars for example? You see 6-7 banded around but I’d not be keen using that
RE this bit,
The claimant notes in particular that the forks were not wholly made of carbon fibre and weaker glass fibres were used in structural areas of the of the forks.
Glass fibre is (or was?) fairly common in entry to mid range carbon frames and forks. May mean a tougher part in some ways as it has better elongation (so saying it's 'weaker' could be a bit of a simplification) but it will be heavier. Cheaper too.
I wonder if we will still be using carbon in 10 or 20 years?
When carbon goes it goes quickly like in this case. Metals tend to let you know and bend first.
With all the recalls it's clear it's not as good as we thought. Plus you can't easily recycle it. It's not actually that much lighter now we have better manufacturing techniques.
If products were taxed to pay for their recycling at the end of life then none of us could afford carbon. It's probably another ticking time bomb our children will have to sort out.
what part of your carbon front end required torquing to 6nm? I use no more than 4 on the steerer, bars and shifters of my bikes and have never had any slippage
in my experience 6NM is often specified for both carbon steerer bungs and carbon stems. It's also the typical toque setting for seat posts. Yes, you can possibly reduce that by using assembly paste, but I would hazard an informed guess that actually using a torque wrench in the first place isn't the norm.
Glass fibre is (or was?) fairly common in entry to mid range carbon frames and forks. May mean a tougher part in some ways as it has better elongation (so saying it’s ‘weaker’ could be a bit of a simplification) but it will be heavier. Cheaper too.
Depends on the glass fiber, S-glass has a comparable tensile strength to carbon fibers (~4000 MPa), but about 20% of the modulus (90MPa Vs 500MPa), useful if you want something strong with a bit of give in it.
Remember stiff things crack, as bit of give in a structure means the load gets transferred to other parts before the highest loaded part breaks.
But yes, also cheaper.
The bit in bold is interesting. Would have thought it would go forwards.
There's a bit in one of the Cy/Cotic mech engineering lectures where he talks about the CEN test that includes a 'pull apart' component and he asks the students why that is, someone says the obvious answer "landing a jump flat", so he explains the G-force required to minic the CEN test, it's MASSIVE, basically impossible in the real world, and annoyingly the driver behind larger top tubes.
Glass fibre composite is a common engineering material and of itself not a reason to be worried about strength. Unless it was designed to be carbon and replaced?
A normal well made bike would be able to withstand the forces required. So there would be no need for warnings and disclaimers? I wonder why they have decided not to pursue the defective manufacture route - one off fork fault rather than systematic failire. Can you claim that you have carried out due diligence and this is a freak accident as a defense? I suppose at that point the insurance has to pay and that is who the case is really against.
Out of the information available you can't really say very much. They are obviously pursuing many approaches. The real information will come out during the trial.
Real shame for the guy. Could have happened to anyone and is so sad.
As a heavy rider and a fearty, aside from my old 90s Kona, all my bikes are steel forks.
Probably no logic in it as many thousands of people use carbon forks with no problems.
Depends on the glass fiber
Sure, like the grade of carbon it's used with - just saying it's not necessarily a problem in itself, it's more about how the particular fork was meant to be made.
And here's another one, it may be a planet x, or that might just be the stem....
Fork column...? That raises lots of questions.
From the article in the OP:
The claimant wore a helmet.
What's that? Is that the sound of every Daily Mail reader clicking to the next article?
I've snapped steel rigid forks back in the 90s
Google almost any brand of frame or form snapped and you will find one
These will have been tested, I guess there will be a regime of batch testing required by planet X insurers.
There’s a guy who has done a few videos with carbon bike repair where they cut open old frames and forks. I remember they cut open a Chinese trifox frame and the expert thought that there wasn’t enough carbon in the fork crown
doesn’t fill you with confidence, but then again there must be hundreds of thousands of carbon forks out there, and these incidents are incredibly rare
as I recall, canyon shove their carbon parts through an X-ray machine as part of the actual process. I’m not sure a chap in a factory looking for external signs of defects in the carbon would be quite as effective
Metal bike parts, frames or forks don't really snap, they crack slowly then give way fast at the end, or they fold. (edit, I suppose a really bad weld could give a 'snap' effect as it simply pulls away)
I've raked out or cracked 3 steel forks over the years and all were rideable to some extent after the damage, none cause a serious crash. The cracked forks were ridden for a while before spotting them, had me thinking I had a slow flat for 100 miles or so before I started looking at the bar and fork and found a blade cracking away from the crown. Totally different type of failure and reasons for it to what can happen with carbon I know, the point is about how things fail and the likelihood of visible warning signs. It's common to think carbon doesn't fatigue like metals do but there can be deterioration internally that has the same basic effect.
There's a reason bike owner manuals mention inspecting parts from time to time, it's not a bad thing to have a reminder (like my bars were - must retape another bike soon to check the bars on that)
as I recall, canyon shove their carbon parts through an X-ray machine as part of the actual process. I’m not sure a chap in a factory looking for external signs of defects in the carbon would be quite as effective
There was a good challenge to the efficacy of xray and ultrasound use like that a while back, about ability to interpret the signal or read outs and how it was pointless unless real time was spent on the parts, time that simply wasn't in the usual production QC process. Was interesting but I can't remember whose it was.
There’s a bit in one of the Cy/Cotic mech engineering lectures where he talks about the CEN test that includes a ‘pull apart’ component and he asks the students why that is, someone says the obvious answer “landing a jump flat”, so he explains the G-force required to minic the CEN test, it’s MASSIVE, basically impossible in the real world, and annoyingly the driver behind larger top tubes.
Yeah, I saw that lecture.
My point was that it didn't really tally with this bit, in my mind:
The keen cyclist, who was working as a junior doctor at Raigmore Hospital, was only travelling at around 15mph before the bike collapsed beneath him, throwing him to the ground.
It sounded like he was just riding along and then it suddenly collapsed. If that were the case I would expect the wheel to travel forward unless something was hit with enough force to stop the wheel. Or for him to have hit the brakes causing the fork to snap.
Reading it again though, I saw this part:
‘In the course of descending the grass slope at a speed of about 25 km per hour (15.5 mph), which is terrain and a speed the claimant will say ought to have been well within the capabilities of the bike, the carbon fibre front forks suddenly and without warning sheared in two at the base of the steerer tube, causing the front wheel of the bike to collapse rearwards.
Makes a bit more sense. A grass slopes could have plenty small divots to grab the wheel.
Either way, should have been well within the capabilities of any bike, assuming it wasn't a grassy slope with 2 ft deep craters.
Should carbon fibre have a different type of material interwoven that doesn't just snap if the carbon breaks? Maybe something like kevlar?
I'm no materials engineer but I'd have thought that it wouldn't add a lot of weight but I'm not sure if it would work, just a thought.
Edit: apparently so
Shouldn’t all bikes with this fork (or close variants) be recalled? That’s what would happen in the automotive industry. I remember previous failures with I think, some Kinesis? forks where details were widely published in the press - after a death whilst just riding along. And… didn’t Specialized delay one of their road models and recall any that had already gone out? Life is dangerous enough without commercial interests taking front seat.
"It’s common to think carbon doesn’t fatigue like metals do but there can be deterioration internally that has the same basic effect"
I think that was one of the reasons cited for the failiure of that Oceangate titan submersible and why experienced sub engineers had always said it wasn't a good material to make hulls from. Certainly in the sail racing. world there are many many examples of carbon spars and even hulls failing under repeated load.
However as this tragic incident happened on a brand new bike in benign conditions then clearly there must have been a construction fault or corner cut in manufacturing. Maybe its easier for this to happen when making large volumes of carbon parts versus large volumes of alloy or steel parts?
We've three full carbon forks, one a Ritchey, one a Trek and one a Ridley 😬
No issues to date 🤞
No carbon fibre alone is sufficient. Glass is added to reduce cost. Kevlar can help with flexibility and impact resistance if I remember. Polypropylene can be used to hold the structure together during layup but that might be particular niche.
They are composites so you need to consider the resin also. The biggest challenge i'm aware of is bubbles in the liquid during manufacture. That's why vacuum layup is generally better. You can compensate for some bubbles by adding more material but only to a point.
In the fatigue testing I do we can see metal fail before composite, it's normally a defect causing localised stress build up. Most common is a burr or lump on something that is clamped. This particular case sounds like an impact failure rather than a fatigue though.
Shouldn’t all bikes with this fork (or close variants) be recalled?
I think this would make a fascinating (if brave!) topic for a STW article. Especially seeing the number of reader/subscriber/forum member riding around with this exact fork must be pretty high given the popularity of PX/OO in these parts.
What triggers a product safety recall? Does there need to be a design error or a provable manufacture QC problem? Why was there not one in this case? Who triggers one? Would the insurer be involved?
Unless it was designed to be carbon and replaced?
I've worked closely with this. A part made by a third party contractor, initial test and production samples passed testing, later ones started failing in the field, and when reviewing sample testing, were passing inspection with *far* lower margins.
Turns out that they'd maxxed out all the infill allowance and minimised the quantities of the expensive bits. The parts were even measurably heavier, couldn't hold dimensional stability (would warp when they got the sun on them).
Shouldn’t all bikes with this fork (or close variants) be recalled?
I was impacted by the Kinesis recall, had to get two forks replaced, a bit of digging on manufacturing codes, OE catalogues and so on showed that the same fork, with different paint and drop outs was on at least half a dozen other bikes that a mate and i could find, it appeared that some came from the same factory, some were from another one. So i *really* hope it was just a straightforward faulty batch, as only Kinesis forks were recalled...
There was a good challenge to the efficacy of xray and ultrasound use like that a while back, about ability to interpret the signal or read outs and how it was pointless unless real time was spent on the parts, time that simply wasn’t in the usual production QC process. Was interesting but I can’t remember whose it was.
A colleague of mine quite literally wrote one of the manuals on NDT/DT testing of composites.
Was then hounded off weightweenies (i think) for pointing out the pointlessness of the 100% x-ray process that Canyon do when it was suggested that all manufacturers should do this "as standard" on all composite parts.
Was then hounded off weightweenies (i think) for pointing out the pointlessness of the 100% x-ray process that Canyon do when it was suggested that all manufacturers should do this “as standard” on all composite parts.
Would be really interested to hear more from him on that point if he put anything in writing or you had a link. tbh I can't remember if the point I read about was RE ultrasound or xray, though the interpretation and time needed might count for either.
What triggers a product safety recall? Does there need to be a design error or a provable manufacture QC problem? Why was there not one in this case? Who triggers one? Would the insurer be involved?
PAS 7100 if interested in the details, it's free to download
Would be really interested to hear more from him on that point if he put anything in writing or you had a link.
I'll ask him if i remember next time i speak to him. Got no link as i'm only on here and Retrobike as far as cycling forums go!
Hmm what does happen in these scenarios, your riding along then your whole world is effectively gone in one second.
You can't work therefore can't pay your mortgage, I suppose you may have some insurance but then there's a lifetime of extra costs for you new requirements.
TBH I think its a 'there for the grace of god', I've broke pedals and chains and bounced off stuff and slide down roads ,bounced over handlebars on more than one occasion., like most of use , but it does make me wonder.
Hmm what does happen in these scenarios, your riding along then your whole world is effectively gone in one second.
You can’t work therefore can’t pay your mortgage, I suppose you may have some insurance but then there’s a lifetime of extra costs for you new requirements.<br /><br />
I think thats why we’re recommended to take out critical illness as part of life insurance.
Are there honestly people out there who can't bring themselves to click a daily mail link?
grimep
Free Member
Are there honestly people out there who can’t bring themselves to click a daily mail link?
Yep
Are there honestly people out there who can’t bring themselves to click a daily mail link?
Absolutely. Stop Funding Hate.
It's carried on GCN too.