[Closed] Anyone know anyone who plays at being a Mountain Bike Guide?

Similar history andnand position. I nearly did some guiding for a local charity a few years back. Actually did one session, for recovering addicts. It was great seeing their reaction to just being outside (a patch of woods in the city) but wasn't for me. Just guiding folk on your local trails would be a start.

Would you be happy doing "their" riding rather than "your" riding? That can get old quickly.

I’m not expecting to get paid anything even remotely decent money wise, perhaps not even anything at all so long as there is something good to be gained (eg a summer in the alps, or the Lakes or somewhere else awesome)

I'm sure those who do eek a living will appreciate another volunteer taking work off them and contributing to low wages across the industry.

I mean, outdoors is only fun, yeah? No need for professionalism.

What's your IT line of work? I fancy a break from all this outdoors, I thought I might do you out of your next job by volunteering for it, despite being low on experience and half-arsed in qualifications.

The non-facetious answer is to go and volunteer with your local bike club, particularly if they have a youth section.

Without the qualifications you should not be doing any guiding. Have you thought about insurance cover? - you need that.

Matt’s two answers have said everything I was going to say.
It’s a bill-paging job for some people; please don’t come and play at it for free.
(From a professional outdoor instructor who feels very undervalued at times)

<deleted whilst I consider my response in a more reasoned manner>

Your initial post seemed naive enough that you might not realise this stuff.

That's very true TJ.

It's noticeable that the last few months have seen a huge rise in folk looking for more interesting jobs, add they either fear redundancy or realise that there is more to life.
I'm measuring it in the daily phone calls and emails at work. So much so I've created a template reply.

@ The generalist- I have previously been where Matt and Lister are now. I would never again want to guide/ instruct adults in the 'Great Outdoors'. It is a whole world away from showing your mates around some new trails. The level of responsibility held is huge and insurance is a must, as TJ says. Qualifications and experience essential too. I know a number of instructors who's mantra is 'What would the Coroner say?'

I'm coming at this as a teacher with 30 plus years experience, 5 years of outdoor pursuits instructor, 20 years of DoE leader in school. I well remember the Lyme Bay tragedy and the shit show at Land's End. These occurred despite the lessons (not) learned after the Cairngorms Tragedy.

Somebody up there said go volunteer with your local club. That’s a great idea. I am one of 30 plus volunteers with my local club, also a BC Level 2 MTB coach and level 2 Mountain Bike Leader.

Club had paid for all my training. In return I give my time. It’s a great way to both give something back and keep involved and fulfilled.

A mate took redundancy a few years ago and set up a Peak based guiding/touring/training business with a friend. They also do tours around the UK and Europe.

He already had the qualifications in place. He still works a "proper job" 2-3 days a week most of the year though.

I’m pretty sure with all these ‘lifestyle’ jobs that those that do it professionally (i.e rely on it for a living) most of them will have started in this way. That’s certainly what happens in my profession - photography - and things like music etc.

I think it’s great that people on the inside tell it like it is but tone down the sarcasm and accept an element of naivety. We all started somewhere yeah??

If you've got the time & ability, talk to your local mountain rescue, I'm sure they would appreciate your help.

I've just finished the level 2 training, it's really interesting and I've learnt loads even if I don't follow it up with the assessment. The British Cycling membership with the training gives you insurance to work with a qualified level 2 coach at no cost to them.

Do the training, volunteer and work alongside a real guide. See whether you like it or not.

Arguments aside, it can be done. Guide in finale a couple of years ago was a German trauma surgeon. Worked for a local outfit a few weeks a year. He was a first rate guide. Didn't make an assessment of his surgical skills.

I read and didn’t reply yesterday. I was about where Matt is. I think doing cheap guiding for a company is one thing, as in the example above. I don’t see many issues there, the company should cover you and fill in the blanks. I wouldn’t employ you and if you want to mail me I’ll tell you how many applications I get offering to work a month or two for free. That is my policy though and lots of other companies would.

Doing it yourself. I’ll quickly run through some of the issues. I’m seeing lots of dreamers with play businesses so have a few fairly well formed opinions.
Insurance. I pay several thousand a year, they don’t. It might not matter to you, until it does.
Risk assessment and staff training. I do they don’t. We do a lot of this, run through scenarios. This year we even hired the local helicopter rescue guy to run us through various scenarios.
Pre riding trails, checking state of play, keeping updated on new trails, new options. Basically people who turn up in the area and guide a week or two a year don’t do this.

That is before you start on experience. Your first accident, it’s horrible. You are guiding in the alps, do you speak the language? Do you know the area and possible escapes? Maybe you know the local rescue guy by name because he is a rider too? We all start green but when you dedicate yourself to guiding you get experience quickly.

The other big issue is earning a living. People guiding for not much money devalues what we do. It’s why I get people like last week wanting a day guided for 30€. Other people will do that but they are doing it just to get enough money to bing a mate some cash so the guide can enjoy some uplifts! Taxes etc? Hahah! No they don’t! I’ve had people tell me they don’t do guides after bad experiences with people like these.

Sorry it’s a bit negative. No reason you shouldn’t do what you’re thinking but try and think about these things. Cheap can equal risky or just crap. There are ways around all those things though.

There's are a load of shitty attitudes and gatekeeping here. A bloke considers trying to make a better life for himself in the bike industry.

What should be said: get experience, get qualifications (they aren't expensive), realise that solo work is difficult and the insurance burden is behemothic, try charity work as a volunteer to start but you may need qualifications first.

What has arisen: don't join the bike industry, I want my money.

Would you be happy doing “their” riding rather than “your” riding? That can get old quickly.

This is also a factor - 3 years ago I started leading rides on and (gentle) off road as a brand ambassador for a clothing company keen to encourage new cyclists. That then grew to leading beginners/intermediate club rides for the new local cycling club keen to get more beginners out, and through them, leading "cycle for health" rides for the local authority.

It wasn't until I had to take a break last summer after getting injured in a crash that I realised that I'd spent two years riding for other people. I'd maybe got one decent ride in for me a month, I was actually less fit, more demotivated and more stressed constantly watching out for others. It was great to see newbies get interested, go new places and improve as riders, but left no time and energy to allow myself to do that.

And the first bad incident does shake you up a bit. Relatively mild one for us. A guy had an unclipping failure as he stopped at a junction. Toppled slowly sideways in front of me. Smashed his hip and pelvis. We were lucky the weather was good, we had some training and carried things like foil blankets, and the ambulance was only 15 minutes.

I know a number of instructors who’s mantra is ‘What would the Coroner say?’

I’d laugh at that right up to the point where I remember how I felt when I nearly lost a windsurfing pupil at my school.

There's a lot of great responses above, I'd add that whilst guiding is not the same as riding for yourself, it's still a great feeling getting to take folk out into a new environment, show them amazing trails, and watch them progress in real time. I often prefer guiding relatively inexperienced clients as it's all so new to them and they aren't as jaded (wrong word, jaded is too harsh, but I canny think of the right word right now) as faster, more experienced riders. It can be a very, very rewarding job. Also yeah, you're not generally riding as fast or carefree as with just friends, but I get to ride throughout the French, Swiss and Italian alps, on some of the best trails in the world, week in week out. Even if you've got a heavier rucsac than ideal, that's still pretty fun. And as Doug say in his detailed reply, all those trails need ridden before the season starts, or need found in the first place. There's a whole chunk of riding associated with the work that is unpaid at the time. Which is great when it works, not so great when you've been carrying the bike for 6 hours up and down hill because that line on the map that was going to be the missing link on a great tour turns out to be a figment of the cartographers imagination.

Most of my work is done for other companies, I am happy to earn less money in exchange for letting someone else deal with marketing, arranging hotels, taking the financial risk of a vehicle for the summer. I still need to pay insurances and various other fees, but none of the ABTA fees a guiding holiday company pays. Having come to the job from without a great deal of money behind me, this works for me. I still do some private work, which I often enjoy more than work for other people, and as there's no middleman it does pay better, but it tends to be clients who I've guided in the past and are looking for something very specific in their riding.

The flip side, to guide in France where I do and you can make actual money (the MCF union rates are €250-300 a day) is quite a lot of work to get the qualification, and you need to be ready to deal with things when it goes wrong. I've been involved in a helicopter rescue every year for the last 4 years. Injuries have included broken hips, collar bones, wrists, ribs, feet, vertebrae and a fractured skull. Those incidents are stressful, both at the time and afterwards worry about what you could have done better, and it's rarely the risk taking rider that gets injured, so frequently it's the steady, safe member of the group that just has an unfortunate tumble on a relatively easy bit of trail.

I wouldn't say there's any good guides who "play" at the job, it's a job, with good and bad like all jobs, but I really enjoy it and if you think you can too, go for it!

Final thought, back in March I had 90 days booked for this summer. So far I've done 1 day and currently have 26 days still booked, although after the weekend's news I full expect to loose some of those. I don't get any money for those days I've lost, so don't expect much security from the job!

The surprise for me was the mountain bike leader level 2 training teaches you how to be a good guide, not just how to keep a group safe. Very little chat about paper risk assessments and lots of talk about dynamic assessment, giving the guide freedom to do what he is comfortable doing with the group. I work in a heavily regulated industry so I am used to paper risk assessments, the dynamic stuff relying solely on the competence of the guide was a breath of fresh air.

If you're thinking about becoming a guide, do the training and understand what you're letting yourself in for.

I know a few people that guide.

One plays at it. they think they are amazing but in reality they do very little guiding, its basically an adult daycare. they ended up sticking it on the back burner and did volunteer work instead in the end for kids with disabilities.

The others have a fair few qualifications behind them and it took a lot of hard work for them to get there. It depends what your after really. One thing i have seen is that when in guiding mode they become very professional people. Its not just mucking about.

IMO i can only imaging it working if your associated with a shop / holiday place so you have a consistent stream of people.

don’t join the bike industry, I want my money.

No. Don’t rock up and offer to do someone’s job for free cos you’ve already got a job that pays the bills and you want to ‘play’. That attitude sucks and doesn’t endear you to the people actually doing the undervalued job. That’s all.

That’s not gatekeeping, just hoping to get the point across that we in the industry are professionals and have chosen this job, despite the poor pay, because we care deeply for it.
Please come and commit to the job and the life though, there’s always space for committed and dedicated people...even if they only want to do it part time.

No. Don’t rock up and offer to do someone’s job for free cos you’ve already got a job that pays the bills and you want to ‘play’. That attitude sucks and doesn’t endear you to the people actually doing the undervalued job. That’s all.

If I wanted to potentially change career into some sort of building trade, or farming, or being a chef say, as a first step I'd consider finding a friendly builder/farmer/restaurant owner and ask if I could please do a week or two's unpaid work experience. Seems sensible rather than forking out for qualifications etc. immediately. Why is this different?

Maybe I, and the others who have commented, have got the wrong end of the stick with regards to the OP but he didn’t come across very well.
Offering to play for free is very different to trying to gain experience through shadowing and volunteering.
It’s a very stressful time to be in the outdoor activity industry and maybe we jumped in too hard but we have livelihoods and standards to defend.
Sorry if my original message came across as over the top.

This would have read better:

“I’d love to be a mountain bike guide in my spare time. I don’t have any quals or experience but I’m very enthusiastic and love riding and the outdoors. What’s the best way for me to gain some experience in the industry to see if it’s for me? Happy to shadow groups as a volunteer to see what it’s like if that’s what is needed.”

So, are there any fulfilling opportunities for people with a certain skill level, who want to work part time but aren’t bothered about the pay cheque each month?

Genuine answer - I bet there's a Scout group near you crying out for leaders. You can bring the experience/knowledge/love of the outdoors that you already have, and there's tonnes of training in other stuff that you can take part in.

Continuity. I don’t think he said that at all. Hopefully you don’t either. Just in case though, to the OP, I would be very happy to give you some pointers from my experience. If you think it would help drop me a mail and I’ll try to explain. Or one day arrange a time and I’ll pour a beer and we can have a chat.

right, where to start... Loads of interesting response and useful info; if nothing else a valuable insight into how miserable some people working in the outdoors are. 🙂

But seriously though. People seem to have read things into my OP which weren't intended. I have no idea where on earth people got the impression that I plan on working without qualifications or insurance, that would be ridiculous. My intention was to not come in spraying the BigIAm, out of deference/respect to the multitude of people who are vastly more experienced than me and do it for a living. But that seems to have backfired completely, so in true STW style I'll try to redress the balance by bigging myself up:

I don't lack Mountain Biking experience. I've been riding mountain bikes for around 33 years now. I did my first MTB Munro around 27 years ago and since then have ridden extensively in America, Nu Zuland, UK, Germany, France, Italy, Austria, Spain.

Have you thought about insurance cover? – you need that.

I'm just amazed that someone would take the time to write that. Beggars belief. Of course I have.

That is before you start on experience. Your first accident, it’s horrible.

And the first bad incident does shake you up a bit. .... Smashed his hip and pelvis.

Agreed. Strangely enough that was my first major accident experience. A chap with a broken pelvis and ribs, but his was from rockfall in the alps. Poor chap ended up getting winched into the helicopter via his climbing harness </pukes>. Since then I've done a fair bit of stretcher work and indeed had a couple more helicopter encounters (thank the lord, not people in my group). Having to put a hat on someone before I could do CPR on him since the sight of his brains leaking out of his head put me off too much. The nice chap who gave me and my wife his room in the Bridge of Orchy Hotel after we'd loaded him on a stretcher and got him winched into a Helicopter on Beinn Ulaidh after he'd fallen the length of Quartzvein Scoop.
Going down a rope at Portland in rough seas to rescue a guy who had lobbed off a DWS and couldn't get back in without getting battered against the rock by the waves. (Whose mate was completely oblivious to his plight)
Then more recently my son breaking his arm snowboarding, or last summer when he took a nasty nasty knock in Meribel. (There's a thread on it here somewhere)
Or the kid at Llandegla a few years back with a broken leg, that most people just rode past. I tried to keep him as well as I could whilst the 'degla staff did sod all as we waited for the ambulance. (aren't insurance stipulations a bitch)
I'm fully aware of the horror of watching people die, and the stress of being in a situation that could deteriorate very rapidly. Being in that situation due to an error on ones own part must be nightmarish. I hope I am never there, or that if I am a respond well.

If you’ve got the time & ability, talk to your local mountain rescue, I’m sure they would appreciate your help.

Yep, I trained with the Lomond team for a while before I moved back to England. Currently too far from any terrain to be of any value at present.

Maybe you know the local rescue guy by name because he is a rider too?

Well, I knew various of the GlenCoe team by name, but that was more because I worked for them, or with their partners, or because Willie Elliot was always in the Kingy nursing his White n Mackay whisky every night !

You are guiding in the alps, do you speak the language?

Depends which bit, my German is pretty much fluent as far as spoken goes. I always think of my French as being execrable, but get a lot of complements on it in France so it can't be that bad. My Italian is limited to the basic niceties/greetings and ordering. My Romansch is non existent. When I was in Norway about 18 years ago, I was the one tasked with finding out from the Germans exactly where the mandatory portage on the River Finna was and what the line was on the unscoutable drop. Given that the very old guidebook we had said the gorge was completely unrunnable there was a certain importance that my German was exact and correct. When kayaking (and indeed climbing) in the Alps, I'd often end up translating written French into German for groups that we met.

Outside of the Alps I'm pretty rubbish. My Spanish is non existent. My Turkish is limited, though I did learn enough to order a taxi for the next day, order food in remote villages and find out where the dangerous rapids were on the Coruh river. Likewise when I went to Czech I picked up the limited basics.

Don't know any Russian, which made my first experience of MTB guiding a group of Russian schoolkids in the Trossachs 27 years ago particularly challenging. And no, at that point I didn't have a formal qualification, my bad. Did they even have an MTB qualification back then?

I’m sure those who do eek a living will appreciate another volunteer taking work off them and contributing to low wages across the industry.

Yep I can understand that would be a thorny issue. Fair point well made.

I mean, outdoors is only fun, yeah? No need for professionalism.

Your words, not mine.

What’s your IT line of work? I fancy a break from all this outdoors, I thought I might do you out of your next job by volunteering for it, despite being low on experience and half-arsed in qualifications.

Feel free. I'm not precious about my job. In fact IT is the industry that most of my outdoor mates got into once they'd given up on guiding.

I know a number of instructors who’s mantra is ‘What would the Coroner say?’

Yep, as the man on the MTBL2 course said "Try putting 'your honour' onto the end of each sentence and then play it back to see how it sounds."

The British Cycling membership with the training gives you insurance to work with a qualified level 2 coach at no cost to them.

yep agreed.

Do the training, volunteer and work alongside a real guide. See whether you like it or not.

That's the plan. (Done the training and first aid (for the fourth time), just awaiting assessment)

Sorry if my original message came across as over the top.
This would have read better:
“I’d love to be a mountain bike guide in my spare time. I don’t have any quals or experience but I’m very enthusiastic and love riding and the outdoors. What’s the best way for me to gain some experience in the industry to see if it’s for me? Happy to shadow groups as a volunteer to see what it’s like if that’s what is needed.”

“I’d love to be a mountain bike guide in my spare time. I don’t have any am currently working through gaining the relevant quals to augment my reasonable amount of experience but I’m very enthusiastic and love riding and the outdoors. What’s the best way for me to gain some experience in the industry to see if it’s for me? I'd love to hear from people who do some part time guiding despite not having been a guide from when they left nappies Happy to shadow groups as a volunteer to see what it’s like if that’s what is needed. I've currently got a plan to get my L2 qualification this year and then move onto the L3 Training [and assessment in a reasonable timescale]. I currently volunteer as a helper on the local D0fE chapter doing navigation classes and orienteering. I plan to continue this and would also like to see about supporting some of the kids to do a cycle expedition if they wish [though I may have to get the CTC qualification to do this]. I plan to build up my formal/group experience further once I have got my qualification, and hopefully get to the stage in around 5 years time where I have a solid level of demonstrable experience and would start looking for a formal role. Has anyone got any positive info they can share, or inspirational stories about people they know who do guiding part time”

I'm going to apologise for the tone of my first response. It was rude and not thought through.

That said, I stand by the points I made.

Why is this different?

I'm all for a couple of weeks of try things out, find a new career path and then work through what you need and want the opportunities are.

However the OP is suggesting that he do full seasons, multiple weeks, 'holidays' because of the nice places he could get to visit, all cross-funded by a well-paid other career and (probably the bit that riled me most)that guiding/coaching is somehow play and easy.

Those suggesting this is protectionism of some kind I will disagree. It's about safety, about standards and about not cutting off livelihoods through personal wealth enabling opportunity.

Doug's post highlights the lengths, usually unseen, that many go to to ensure a safe and smooth experience for the customer. That's a corporate investment in the system and process - and for many in the outdoor industry it is matched by thier own personal investment in training, kit, insurance, up-dates, skills and attitude.

We do all have to start somewhere, and a couple of weeks work experience, a UKCC L2 Coaching course (with attendant experience) and MTB bolt on is a good start. But it gets you to a basic standard to work on limited sites under supervision to Coach and lead straightforward trails. The OP was suggesting that he wanted to guide in Lakes or Alps having got a single bit of paper - a bit like giving a newly qualified bridge engineer with no experience a replacement Humber Bridge as a first project.

My advice more positivity:
- go and volunteer at your local bike club and get some significant informal experience of ride leading in
Then:
- book on UKCC L2
- book outdoor first aid
- book a Cytech course, a mid level one
Then:
- volunteer again for your experience, this could be with a wider/bigger trip than your club
Then:
- pass your assessment
- again, find increasing experience through some paid work, but expect to start at Local Trails and family day puts, building up to some bigger trips.
Then:
- start working out who the good guys are you want to work for - many outdoor 'adventure' companies are on the McDonalds end of the spectrum, many will work you beyond what you're capable of.
- realise that any organisation with good guides and coaches will use them on the big, interesting or unusual days. This is for both risk management and staff retention. Therefore you will pick up more of your fair share of rides that are less than glamorous to build relationship and trust in the industry and with future employer.
- finally be offered the gig in interesting place leading more interesting riding.

It's doable, probably 2-3 years of focused weekends and own holidays.

When you do find that job and employer that 'works' it is worth it and you will get satisfaction from it - but you will work 12hr days fixing wheels and mechs with a few hours riding. You will deeply connect with nature and the people you work with. You will turn your hand to cooking, need changing and driving to airport. You'll be paid 1/3 what you expect (before some cheeky volunteer takes your job...)

But it is a good job.

The reasson for my response and I guess those of others is how we read your post.

who plays at being a Mountain Bike Guide

Because I don’t have the background or time served, I know I’m not going to be able to set up properly

Now this impression I and others got may well be not what you meant but it sure looked like what you wanted was to be an amateur not properly qualified and thus not insured or insurable but still claiming to be an MTB guide.

Maybe the old lost nuance in text conversations?

If thegeneralist had included even SOME of the details he’s just given in his original question and not given the impression he just wanted ‘to play at being a guide’ then we perhaps wouldn’t have been so stroppy.
A bit of context really does help.

For example:

a valuable insight into how miserable some people working in the outdoors are

I’ll find out this Wednesday whether the centre I’ve worked at for 18 years is being closed or not due to covid-19 finances. Some more context there about the current stresses in the industry...😕

Inded, we are forecast 40-60% of Scottish centres to close if they cannot open this Autumn.

Let us know how you get on Lister.

a valuable insight into how miserable some people working in the outdoors are

You will find I am lovely and relaxed, promise.
Up until I read post which got my back up through the nuances which were missing, you have now explained well and I get.
See you out guiding sometime - I will be the miserable one with 30 teachers out in Cumbernauld Glen in the p*ss*ng rain 😉

Such an absurd thread with so much gate keeping, nastiness and general silliness.

I'll add to it by saying that Mountain Bike Guiding is nothing like being a mountaineering/climbing guide. The sport is far less risky, the learning curve far less steep and the trails always in far more accessible locations. I've no idea why the OP has been shown so much hostility.

I’ll add to it by saying that Mountain Bike Guiding is nothing like being a mountaineering/climbing guide. The sport is far less risky, the learning curve far less steep and the trails always in far more accessible locations.

There's less technical ropework, fine, but the capacity to find yourself in an inaccessible location with a seriously-injured client is still there. There is a spectrum of risk in both sports - an ML could just as easily find themselves top-roping with novices in a safe, roadside environment, whereas MTB guiding can take place over all sorts of fairly extreme terrain at some distance from tarmac - just look at some of Doug's trail options, or Ben Jones' stuff in the Alps.

The need for comprehensive first aid training, risk assessment, assessment of your clients' abilities, planning, navigation, anticipation of weather and ground conditions are all still there.

Oh Eck. I'd say mountain biking is far riskier than climbing but sure someone will disagree.

Joe. Sorry, you are wrong on lots of counts there! I go far more remote than a lot of the climbing guides I know. And I know it’s easier to be rescued from the summit of Aneto than the depths of a forest. Again, not sure if you are referring to me but I’m certainly not gatekeeping (first time in my life I’ve heard that word and I see it twice in a day)! I guess the tone of the responses is directly related to the tone of the title, no?

Thegeneralist, sounds like you had a lot more experience than you alluded to no? Maybe you don’t actually need any advice at all? If you do then the offer stands. There is lots of room for good guides, even if they aren’t full time. People playing at it... maybe not so much! And like everything, you do the job then ask for the money I reckon. No point in doing something properly for free.

Adios!

sure someone will disagree.

I won’t. I reckon I’ve filled in one accident form in 18 years of climbing sessions...for a twisted ankle on the walk in. Groups are kept together and heavily supervised because of the nature of the environment around you.
Bikes give each group member the chance to control themselves. Beginners and kids will fall off on the slightest of bumps for very little reason. They will land on their chins, elbows and knees everytime and will bleed and scream 😃
True; a fall from a cliff could be fatal but a good instructor will prevent that occurring. The best instructor in the world can’t stop a kid whacking their front brake on and taking their teeth out.

The sport is far less risky, the learning curve far less steep and the trails always in far more accessible locations

That's interesting. 5 years of accident book records of my last employer shows the opposite - far, far and away the most accidents happened on cycling sessions. None on climbing, including staff training at a high level.

To put things in context, the riskiest 'activity' in the centre was free-time, never they actual sessions.

And my biggest fears were driving (easy way to kill a minibus load of kids, brought home after having to help a head on crash in a bus driven by a teacher en-route to our centre) and mission creep as to how activities are delivered (brought home having worked for an employer who had death of a teenager on thier hands through poor risk assessing, poor record keeping and a change in use).

And my biggest fears were driving

I was going to leave the thread but that’s so true. Like I say to my guides, it’s the only way you’re going to kill the whole group at once!

Driving for big accidents.
Bunk beds and doors for little accidents.

**** bunk beds!

Good point Lister. I've never guided was referring more to my own fun times but yep a kid on a rope is way safer than one on a bike, at least climbing you could control the falls!

Like I say to my guides, it’s the only way you’re going to kill the whole group at once!

I'm sure it's an IMBA approved technique for a troublesome group. Aim for hairpin, driver door open, tuck and roll. 🙂

Surely the risks etc. depend on where and who you're guiding?
Compare guiding a group in the Alps and a group around the blue/fire roads at Cannock.

Jesus I'd rather be an IT manager than ride Cannock for a living.

Compare guiding a group in the Alps and a group around the blue/fire roads at Cannock.

I'd worry more about the Cannock lot, having had a friend coach and guide there for a decade...
That's a serious answer.

Marin

Jesus I’d rather be an IT manager than ride Cannock for a living

Haha!
Depends where you ride.
Taking a group of kids & parents around areas they've never seen is quite a nice feeling - showing them that there is more to Cannock than the visitors centres.

my favourite stw threads are the ones where inexperienced people argue about the actual experience of the people that actually have the experience being discussed

My decision when I wanted to work out doors was that I needed the top qualification in the activity otherwise it was going to be mainly wall to wall rehab for young offenders (30 years ago) and having to deal with youth that did not want to be there wasn't my idea of fun.

I missed the chance in 2005 as my loyalty bonus for working normally went 2 months into the full-time 6 month course I was considering and after that I considered my self too old to want to do it and I didn't want to taint my enjoyment of my hobby by making it my job. That said I enjoy a day out with a good guide especially if the day is structured around my not very outdoorsy wife. (Hat tip to Lavatrax for some excellent work catering to her 8 or so years ago).

Genuine answer – I bet there’s a Scout group near you crying out for leaders.

Our county bike team are always keen to have new people, and would probably cover some of the training.

Though training, risk assessments, oversight etc are being cranked up to 11 this year, and not just due to Covid

I'm seeing the same with Boys Brigade - particularly for DofE...

I’m seeing the same with Scouts – particularly for anything involving being within thirty feet of another human being…

I write this only as a customer, not as a current or former employee or employer. Feel free to correct me if you have any experience in the matter.

Have you considered the activity holiday company type places - mark warner, nielsen etc.

Their group rides vary from flat 5 miles to 50+ mile high speed routes with serious riders who bring their own bikes out (all well advertised as to which is which).

The routes are already existing and they always send two guides out with the group, so you can start off as the sweeper.

You can start from no experience (and if you're a good home mechanic that is definitely a bonus), and could get you the experience you need if you want to take it further, or come home after a season and go back to IT if you hate it.

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