[Closed] Anyone gone back to square taper BBs? What options are available these days?

hmm not to wee on your bonfire but I'm at 3-4 years on External hope BB's with no new bearings (can't comment on longer use as thats as old as they are) and lots of choice of cranks from Shimano. Race Face, SRAM and the rest. Can't see the downside

I've never really left square taper (I do have Hollowtech on one bike but have not warmed to it)

I run Shimano UN55 bottom brackets and a Middleburn (RS7?) crankset.

(Shimano cranks are lighter but don't look as nice!)

same here RE hopes ceramics - 5 years in one bike inc 2 strathpuffers and 4 in another - inc 1 strathpuffer

youll be spending alot more than the cost of a hope ceramic BB to get a good squaretaper set up

You get what you pay for. Mid range Shimano/Race Face external BBs are hopeless (no pun intended).

Shell out some decent wonga and bye-bye bearing blues. No complaints with Hope.

Both chainsets are FSA junk which I want to replace. One crank has a lockring for the spider, which simply cannot be tightened sufficiently to stop it loosening (I know, threadlock could be used, but I don't like them anyway). They require FSA bearings as they use a very slightly different sized axel, annoyingly.

Like the Middleburns a lot. Was wondering if there are any other options?

In contrast i had a hope BB, and it trashed a frame, stupid plastic spacers that allowed the cup to move a fraction that over time and unbeknown to me wore the threads. BB was never loose when you checked it, until it had damaged the threads!

un72/73 IMHO are worth the slight increase in money over a un54 etc as you get a hollow axle and a metal rather than plastic NDS cup.

eBay/SJS/Retrobike are all good sources for new BB's.

I want a BB that will last as long as the 80 year old cottered one in my Sunbeam...

UN55 has a metal NDS cup as well now.

I've got Shimano/Race Face on one bike, GXP on another and Taper on the other. Only ones I've ever had a problem with were an old Shimano HTII set that seized, a higher-spec external BB did it, never splashed out on Hope and never needed to.

The latest UN55 has the metal NDS cup. UN72/3 are very hard to find!

I found that the tapers on the Middleburns distort too easily. And I broke two spiders. I'm now running White Industries cranks which aren't pretty seem bulletproof. I've got some beautiful Shimano XT M737s in the drawer too which also did the job very well.

So I'm very happy with my "no fuss" Square Taper setups 🙂

but then what mrmo neglects to tell you is that hope have changed the material their spacers are made from.

i never fitted those fibre spacers anyway - doesnt take a genius to work out what was going to happen there - they were like cheese....

Gusset ext24.

VERY well sealed, and then sealed cartridge bearings.

mines done 3000km, it's still perfect.

£30ish.

judging external BB's by the longevity offered by a shimano jobby is just daft.

(uberbike sell one that looks similarly constructed/reliable)

mines done 3000km, it's still perfect.

My tatty commuter bike does more than that every year, and the BB is probably about 15 years old. It's out in all weathers, gets locked up in the pouring rain, is still perfect. I want that kind of reliability and longevity. External BBs can't give me that.

Ae the new UN55s hollow axled? Because the solid axled versions are a tad heavy.

My tatty commuter bike does more than that every year, and the BB is probably about 15 years old. It's out in all weathers, gets locked up in the pouring rain, is still perfect. I want that kind of reliability and longevity. External BBs can't give me that.

based on a sample of FSA BBs - which even when they didnt do external BB's were poor . be they FSA square tapers or FSA isis - the only good thing about the latter was the zero question warrenty.

try some good ones - youll be surprised.

Best bottom bracket I ever owned was a Royce Titanium.

I see they still make them, and with crank arms to match. Bit pricey though!

http://www.royceuk.co.uk/Royce-Uk.html

TA chainrings are pretty good, and a bit cheaper than Middleburn.

External BBs can't give me tha

as the good ones haven't been out that long how do you know?

 

I've never stop using square-taper BBs. Shame Shimano stopped doing the UN72!

trail_rat - Member

try some good ones - youll be surprised.

no ta, i'm glad i never have to deal with another square taper BB, and those bloody awful, tiny, fragile, extractor threads still give me nightmares.

Spa cycles still do a good selection of square taper bottom brackets and chaninsets.

but then what mrmo neglects to tell you is that hope have changed the material their spacers are made from.

Which i wasn't aware of, does ask the question if it was such a stupid material why they were included in the first place?

Ae the new UN55s hollow axled? Because the solid axled versions are a tad heavy

as the good ones haven't been out that long how do you know?

Fair point; I don't. I'd rather stick with something I know to be reliable, than chance it with an unknown quantity though.

D0NK; thanks, that would be good to know. Says 'hollow axle' in their description, but as we've seen recently, descriptions can be misleading. 😉

Shell out some decent wonga and bye-bye bearing blues. No complaints with Hope.

hope have changed the material their spacers are made from

<edit> tell you what tho, I'd pay hope sort of money for something with (external) grease ports on it. Quick splurge of grease after a wet ride, 30second job. Bearings should last for aaaaages then.

BB wear is a tricky one, quite subjective, on most of my bikes ext bearings aren't working out too bad but the ones I ride whatever the weather (commuter, SS) do tend to get through them very quickly.

Fair point; I don't. I'd rather stick with something I know to be reliable, than chance it with an unknown quantity though.

Still use them and still find them to be the longest lasting. As with all internet advice, it would be good to know what mileages and conditions folk ride in to give an idea of how well things tend to last. A barely ridden bike is always going to last longer than one that is hammered in all conditions. 😀

My Fargo has easily done a good few thousand miles on a previously used Shimano UN72 - still going strong despite being ridden in all weathers both on road and off road.

Hope this helps?

Sanny

yep 3 years in the lakes/general UK ridden twice a week whatever the weather now moved to Oz and find it's not that dry...

Decent distance in slop and shit. The choice of cranks would stop me going to Sq taper

never ride mine , thats why they last....

Decent distance in slop and shit. The choice of cranks would stop me going to Sq taper

I'm with you on that Mike. I do however have a couple of UN72's and square taper cranks ready to fit to a future project...

no ta, i'm glad i never have to deal with another square taper BB, and those bloody awful, tiny, fragile, extractor threads still give me nightmares.

He was talking about external bearings? 😕

I'd never go back to square taper, the halcyon days weren't all that IMO, heavy, more faff, more expensive to replace and actually I didn't find UN5xs lasted that well, the UN7x was better. The number of times we'd have the breaker bar out to get ST BBs out, folk who'd mangled splines being ham fisted and so on.

If you want lightweight then square taper is the wrong avenue to go down. That said if you start wanting infinite longevity too you're probably on a hiding to nothing.

njee20 - Member

He was talking about external bearings?

good point, i'm an idiot.

Well I didn't like to say... 😉

Can't see why anybody would choose to go back to square taper BBs. A good quality BB will last whether it's internal or external. And bearing life is only one thing to consider. Trying to remove a tight square crank hoping that the extractor threads don't strip out is something I don't miss.

I'd never go back to square taper, the halcyon days weren't all that IMO

Great, you stick with 'cutting edge technology', and I'll stick with what I know works well for me. 😉

But your initial statement was about the lack of high end/lightweight cranks.

Taking Middleburn cranks as an example you'll spend more than XT for something that weighs more than Deore with questionable reliability. You could get XT and a few BBs.

You could go for the setup on your commuter, which clearly ticks the reliability box, but clearly isn't in the lightweight/high end category.

But your initial statement was about the lack of high end/lightweight square taper cranks.

FTFY.

I could do all sorts of things. But what I want is a decent reliable square taper set up, to replace the unreliable crap external BB set ups I currently have. Thanks for your advice though, appreciated.

Taking Middleburn cranks as an example you'll spend more than XT for something that weighs more than Deore with questionable reliability.

I know a few folk who've used/still use Middleburn stuff, and it appears to be pretty reliable. I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of weight for increased longevity and reliability.

Went square taper about 3 years ago, Middleburn cranks, un 55 bottom bracket, bombproof and, if you are sad enough to compare weight differences, there's a couple of grams in my set up and a hollowtech crank set up but I have far less spannering

Mine is heavier by the way but the weight saving us that small, the faff ain't worth it.

Try a Phil Wood, not too bad a price at Aspire Velotech. Fairly comprehensively reported to being very reliable albeit at a price, can be lightened with a Ti axle and alloy cups if you wish.

Middleburn/Royce Perfection for me.

Ooooohhhhhh....

[img] [/img]

[url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Titanium-Square-Taper-Bottom-Bracket-68-117-5-mm-/271305363600?pt=US_Bottom_Brackets&hash=item3f2b0f5090 ]Linky[/url]

Taking Middleburn cranks as an example you'll spend more than XT for something that weighs more than Deore with questionable reliability. You could get XT and a few BBs.

questionable reliability for middleburn cranks ? Evidence ?

I still have my middleburn loyalty from when they were clearly better than any of the shimano offerings. If only people had been sensible then instead of flocking like sheep to buy shimano rubbish then maybe middleburn would be in a better position now.

middleburn being clearly better was down to their lifetime warrenty.they were far from infailible.

i killed a few - and i dont mean knackered tapers i mean sheared them horizonatally - later noticed on a friends pair his were going too - eminating from the engraved lettering "middleburn" also split them up the middle vertically on another pair eminating straight from the pedal

my mate did the same to some raceface turbine though so its not all middleburn gloom - as well as Paul angus shearing his taperlock BB on the triple at kinoull - that looked painful.

ok, never heard of the middleburn crank failures but their rings used to be significantly better than the shimano ones.

I had the same issue, in fact our MTB group who ride in all weathers, all through the winter have all reverted back to internal bearings.
I ride a lot of miles and got fed up of replacing...It's common sense that the external bearings with plastic top hats etc are going to have a lower life than the internally sealed ones...

I went for the simple option of a shimano un55 with a middleburn. I did toy with the idea of a Royce BB but the fact you need a special tool to install put me off.

I don't think you need worry about weight, the total difference would be insiginifcant propoirtion of the whole.

I never looked back, its "fit and forget" now as opposed to fit and listen for the creak in 2 months time.....

External BB's were a real step backwards in my opinion. Glad I changed when I did.

ok, never heard of the middleburn crank failures but their rings used to be significantly better than the shimano ones.

Saw quite a number aside from Trail_rat's experiences above, also never got on with their rings, lasted well, didn't shift that well. Always just used Shimano (or TA).

I'm still using square taper in my commuter, the lifespan on cheap shimano sts is better than on expensive externals IME. But the difference isn't massive and the other benefits of external mean I'm ht'd on all the proper bikes.

(incidentally I remain pretty convinced that the main reason some people get terrible lifespan from shimano BBs but much better from Hope is just that Shimano have no tolerance of gorilla-tightening while Hope do. XT is a very good product these days.)

TurnerGuy - Member

ok, never heard of the middleburn crank failures but their rings used to be significantly better than the shimano ones.

Maybe so but they never moved on, compared with the modern competition middleburn rings are pretty rotten now- expensive and pretty shortlived, and only adequate shifting.

I never saw what was wrong with square taper quite frankly.

I gave up on Shimano external BBs for the MTB and got a King. Pricey, but so is a good square taper BB and chainset combo and a Hope/King BB and HT2 crank set up feels more solid. I'd use square taper on a long-distance tourer though.

Another here who's never strayed from the square taper path. Usually last 10 years in all sorts of awful conditions, and I'm over 100kg and yet to break one.

just walk backwards in to the sea, things are nicer that way.

Glad to be away from square tapers on mine. I had never ending problems with middleburn cranks. The tapers are machined and not smooth and would always work loose. Used Hope BB's, Race face and Royce. The wife has some very short xt cranks on one of her bikes with a Royce fitted and runs very smooth. But she doesn't make the bike work as hard. I used to find the bearings would break up and collapse. Syncros forged were the only cranks I never really had an issue, but by then, I had a load of broken BB's, which I just gave up on. Shimano BB's when they did the UN92 were great, but now they don't exist. I have got through a few external BB's but only shimano ones. The hope ones seem to last adequately, king fares a bit better, with being greased once a year and the Uberbike one just seems to roll round. The wife has a BB30 on her road bike, so that's another questionable life expectancy !! I still believe square tapers faded for reliability , weight and ease or servicing/ replacement. I remember seized BB's, cranks with iffy threads. All now in my past

Facing you bb shell is more important with an external bb. Maybe that's why some of you have had bad experiences.

My hope external bb has outlasting anything I've had before!

Square taper defiantly had more drawbacks.

External bb's are a step forward!!

We have Shimano UN somethings on our heavy tourers and on my wife's commuter (in fact that bb is on its second frame now) with zero issues. In contrast I seem to be forever changing the external BB on the other bikes. Might be lighter, might be stiffer (though I can't feel a difference) but for longevity the internal ones are infinitely better IME.

External bb's are a step forward!!