[Closed] Anyone going back to 1x10speed from 1x12speed

I am still on 2x10 on my hardtail 😂. I am very slow to take up the latest technology.

1x11 on both bikes. I've been advised by more than one person not to go 1x12.

cant imagine anyone doing this. 12 speed works great on all my bikes, as does 11 speed, it just requires a more careful setup but is better in every way. you have already said it isnt working as you have a few defective items, poor chain line, bent mech.....can you expect it to work properly?
its a bit like choosing an old Beetle instead of a formula 1 car simply because it has greater mechanical tolerances.

I went from 11 to 10, lost the largest cog, a 42, and now have a 34 iirc.
I havent really noticed any difference. I rarely used the 42, even going up the 3 mile climb at Llandegla.

Still on 3x9 and 3x10 here. 1x still doesn't give me the gear range I want and the gaps between gears are too big.

A lot of my riding is long fire road climbs and similar decents where I pedal though, so not really typical usage.

Yup.. Tried 1x11 and then 1x12 but prefer the smoother shifting and longevity that 10spd provides.
Also I can replace the chain, cassette and ring for nigh on the same money as decent 11spd cassette

You can run 11-46 on 10 speed as long as you have the right/modified mech!

Been running it since the Sunrace cassettes were first released and I won't be swapping that bike to 11 or 12 speed as it's plenty good enough. I can hardly tell the difference gearing wise when switching between my 11 and 10 speed bikes.

When I ran a 10 speed mech with Radcage it was the most bulletproof setup I have ever ran, not so with the soft tin cages on 11 speed mechs!

Reluctantly went from an Xt 2x9 ,pg990 cassette which was perfect to Xt 12. I was convinced there was no way it could have been as good. It's better,if your 1x12 is problematic it's either Sram or set up wrong..

Glad it’s not just me then .. I spent out on a 12 speed xt groupset just after lockdown as it was the only one I could find at the time - I just don’t like it, much prefer my 1 x 11 set up - the chain line look gopping no matter what I do. And as for micro spline ....don’t get me started

How does one successfully realign a bent mech cage?

Haven't gone back, but I run 1x10 on the hardtail, have run 1x11 XT and now 1x12 GX on the full suss. Based on the shifting performance, I have no plans to downgrade the hardtail.
Disclaimer, Haven't tried 1x12 XT myself but fitted it to a mates bike and it felt nice!

Ok, I'll put my head up above the parapet.😐

GX 12 speed running faultless for me.
Crisp, and forgiving when I do stupid shifts out of the saddle under load. No complaints.

Mech has the mk11 jockey wheels and I use an X01 shifter admittedly.

How does one successfully realign a bent mech cage?

It's a bit hit and miss TBH.

1) You can do it by eye just bending/twisting the bottom jockey wheel part of the cage whichever way looks best, but it's difficult to judge because of the floating wheels.

2) Unscrew the cage stop screw and roll the cage a full 360 degrees backward to release the spring pressure. Then you can fully dismantle it (the cage is 2 plates), get it on a bench/flat surface and bang it flat. This is hampered slightly by the fact some cages have relief profiles, hence are not a completely flat plate of metal (XTR are carbon so no dice).

3) Buy one or both cage plates separately from SJS, JE James or similar

Edit: I am talking Shimano here!

I’d happily go back to 10sp even 9sp no problem, but being middle aged and fat I need my 50t winch gear, but I rarely shift 1 gear at a time anyway.

I've got one bike on 1x10 but nearly all my bikes are either 3x9 or 2x9. Not really seen a reason to change yet and certainly on my Epic I'm not convinced I'd want to have anything with a reduced gear range.

@tdog one adds one to one's shopping cart and buys a new one

I too went from 1x11 to 1x10 not from any particular agenda but to maximise use of bits I already had. I have been very impressed with the shifting using a new Sunrace 11-46 cassette and an old Deore mech with a hanger extender. I originally intended to buy a 2x chain set as I wasn't wholly convinced by 1x but the 10 speed version has definitely made me a fan.

Some of us never left.
Was planning to upgrade when my Sunrace cogs wear out, but that's taking a lot longer than expected. With the new Advent stuff & Deore, I don't think I'll ever need to.
Just upgraded my old school HT from 3x9 XT to 1x10 XTR as well & certainly don't miss front derailleurs.

3x9 is magic. Middle ring for most situations, inner for steep climbs and outer for bumpy descents. Nothing since has been better.

I have 1x 9, 10, 11 and 12 and tbh I could live with any of them. But each has its advantages and works well on its particular bike.

(the 12 speed on the big bike is appreciated because it gives it a higher gear for fast riding, and low gear for hauling its heavy, slow-tyred carcass back up the hill one more time... The wide range is useful at both ends. The 11 speed on the hardtail doesn't really suffer from lacking that range much as it's lighter, and usually has faster tyres, so I geared the front a little higher, it only loses low range. And the fatbike gets away with 1x10 because it doesn't need the high gears. Basically the 1x12 would work on any of 'em but wouldn't deliver as much benefit, the others would introduce compromises that I'd rather not have on the big bike, so it all works)

Oh and the 1x9? It's on my commuter, and its advantage is that I had a pile of old 9 speed in a box.

11 speed has been better than 10 speed for me, so why jump from 12 back to 10 speed?

I’m comparing Gx 11 speed with gx 10 speed and a mixture of SLX / Deore / Zee 2x10.

I’m thinking about going 12 speed to get both a higher and lower gear of my full suss bike but may go XT 12 speed rather than GX Eagle as most anecdotal evidence seems to suggest Shimano 12 speed is better than Sram. Although if GX Eagle drops to around £260 again vs nearly £400 for Shimano plus a £75 microspline freehub I’d need I’d be tempted with the GX tbh.

Edit - just to be clear are you running Sunrace 12 speed mech and shifter? If so I’ve not read a lot good about that setup. I’d just switch it to one of the big 2.

I didn't pander to them in the first place. Where does it end ? 1x15 around an entirely redesigned frame ?.

Frames are already redesigned though thats the problem. I would have happily fitted 2x9 onto my new frame but like many now its not designed for a front mech. Sure, maybe i could have hacked it but now worth the bother to me of adding cable stops/guides then finding out the chainline wouldnt work...

Sunrace kit

To be a brutal, that's your problem, right there 1x12 from either of the SRAMs or Shimano lines all work faultlessly

I've got shimano 1x11 setups on a couple of bikes and it's very good. One of them is getting a bit worn now, so I have just taken the plunge and ordered new shifter, mech, cassette, chain and microspline freehub body so I can go 1x12. Expecting it to be very good too but with smaller gaps between the gears.

Those still riding on 3x9 and kidding themselves it's brilliant - it probably is for you. I remember it well and for me 1x11 is many times better but maybe that's just a difference between the kinds of riding we do.

Those still riding on 3×9 and kidding themselves it’s brilliant

Are there significant benefits for me going 1x11 or 1x12 compared to the 3x9 set-up on my Epic? General XC riding on a fast/light 26" wheel XC type bike?

I've got a 1x10 set-up on my BFe (32 front and 11-42 on the back I think) and it's fine in use but I can't say I see any advantages really over the 2x9 set-up it had before.

I'm thinking I'll probably move my Soul to a 1x11 or 1x12 set-up as the 3x9 on it is pretty much knackered now, however I'm not convinced there will be much in the way of practical benefits really.

To be a brutal, that’s your problem, right there 1×12 from either of the SRAMs or Shimano lines all work faultlessly

all... work... faultlessly...

You sure about that?

Just thinking about what you would have to pay me to put 3x9 on my main mountain bike instead of 1x1 (if it were even possible). It would be a lot of money.
3x9 setup has loads of chain flopping about as well as having to plan shifts between rings in advance and then the unsatisfying grind against the front mech as the chain slowly moves accross.
1x11 you can just ride. If you need to shift up you press one button, if you need to shift down you press the other button. No thinking "am I in the middle ring or the small one? If it's the middle one I need to shift to the small one but if I'm already in the small one I can shift the rear derailieur to a bigger sprocket". Until I went 1x11 I didn't realise how much this kind of thing ruined the flow of my riding. The amount of time you have to be off the power to shift chainrings without inducing chainsuck is quite large, so you lose a lot of momentum on a climb while that is happening.

Are there significant benefits for me going 1×11 or 1×12 compared to the 3×9 set-up on my Epic? General XC riding on a fast/light 26″ wheel XC type bike?

Yes for me the benefits are huge (see my post above).

For some people it will make very little difference, as the type of riding they do doesn't demand fast shifting between widely different gears. My local trails go from steep up to flat to gentle down to steep up again in the space of a couple of hundred metres and the advantages of a 1x system are massive.

‘Those still running 2x9’
I’m running a 3x10 slx 660 chainset, with the big ring removed, on a boost frame, but I’m using one of the more modern front swing mechs where the cable goes in from the front.
I spaced the BB across to the right with an extra spacer. Shifted by 10spd Dura Ace bar end shifters mounted on top of the bars like thumbshifters.
So, technically it’s a hacked setup, with mismatched components, but when shifting (front or rear) it’s silent and works perfectly.
Now, tbf, I’ve been setting gears up for decades, I’ve worked in 5 bike shops over the years, so I’ve got a good idea of what I’m doing, but even taking that into account, this was an easy setup to fit and adjust.
I accept that others experience may differ significantly from mine.
1x does not have to be the only way.
Disclaimer: i have 1x10 xt on my ebike and it is ****ing brilliant, I’m not anti 1X, i just don’t think it is automatically the best answer for every type of user.

Yes for me the benefits are huge (see my post above).

I read it, but was in fact seeing - "there are no significant benefits" as none of the minor things you mention have ever been an issue for me with 3x9!

I suspect my Epic will probably end up with 2x11 if the XTR 3x9 on it dies.

Recently swapped from 2x11 to 1x12 (XT), although I've done a fair number of Eagle installs for others. My experience of the install process is positive, and certainly the XT setup was no more difficult that for an 11-speed install, whereas the Eagle setups are much more finicky. Not used 10 speed for years, but never thought 11 speed was compromised in any way, and so far at least, don't consider 12 speed any worse either.

From my own side, I am enjoying riding the 1x12 *but* if I had to swap back to 2x11 tomorrow, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. I still occasionally find myself changing gear using the seatpost control, but the reality is that it was sometimes convenient to be able to jump ratios using the front mech and I do miss this occasionally.

If I was installing a new bike tomorrow? XT 1x12 due to the pure simplicity of it and lack of compromise in ratios as well as superb value for money. Also, the rear mech will probably not fall apart after 6 months like the SRAM ones do 🙂

I never got to 12 speed. But went back from 11-speed to Deore 11-42 10 speed a year ago. The appeal of a £25 cassette was too alluring! I've not found anything I could climb before I can't climb now. Still plenty of things I can't climb. Find it has made me faster too. Running 32t front to 11-42t on 650b. I find it very hard to justify upwards of £100 for a cassette!

The appeal of a £25 cassette was too alluring!

To be fair, the new Deore 10-51 12 speed cassette is £75. Clearly, still at the pricey end, but way cheaper than these things used to be...

11 speed seems to be the best balance of value for money and performance I think. 12 spd prohibitively expensive I think.

Yeah £75 is approaching reasonable in my opinion.

I guess another reason to run 10 speed might be a cheap way to save some grams if you can manage without the huge bail out gears.

A £25 Deore 11-42 10 speed is 435g
> £100 XT 10-51 12 speed is 470g

I know it could be a big compromise but I can imagine some price conscious XC riders who might want to save the mass.

epicsteve
Are there significant benefits for me going 1×11 or 1×12 compared to the 3×9 set-up on my Epic? General XC riding on a fast/light 26″ wheel XC type bike?

Yes, you get rid of the front derailleur.

I rode this for 10 years & just ditched it for a 1x10. There's no way I'm going back

11 speed seems to be the best balance of value for money and performance I think. 12 spd prohibitively expensive I think.

11 speed SRAM GX is now as much as 12 speed GX for some parts I've found

11 speed seems to be the best balance of value for money and performance I think. 12 spd prohibitively expensive I think.

I guess everyone has their own definition of expensive, but when I replaced my worn out 2x11 setup, M8100 12 speed cost £350 for crankset, chainring, 10-51 cassette, chain, mech and shifter, plus another £50 for the Hope Microspline freehub. Personally, I didn't think this outrageously expensive and now you can get the SLX and Deore options, you can do this a fair bit cheaper still (£240 for Deore from CRC at the moment)

A £25 Deore 11-42 10 speed is 435g
> £100 XT 10-51 12 speed is 470g

There's also a 10-45 cassette, which is a bit lighter although still more than the 11-42. Of course, these aren't like for like comparisons, but I would agree that if you don't want or need the 500%+ range of the big cassettes, 11-speed is probably where it's at from a weight and cost point of view. My son runs 1x11 M8000 with an 11-42 and it's been completely flawless, but it's set up with very low gearing, so he needs to do 180rpm to keep up with me. Good training for the road 🙂

You sure about that?

Yep, in all the years of fettling gears and chains and whatever, my SRAM XO1 1x12 has been the groupset that has consistently needed the least adjustment or looking after; It. Just. Works. I was also not massively keen on SRAM either beforehand being content with kit from Shimano, but it's honestly one of the best things I've used on a MTB in a long time.

I'm very happy with 2x10 XTR setup on my main bike and have no intention of changing that.

12 speed is all about range for me.

The fully-integrated non-bodged nature (looking at range extender cogs) on 12 speed is what drew me to it.

I leap frogged 11 speed entirely, but 8, 9, 10 and 12 speed all operate acceptably for me. I'd agree that 12 spd is a bit less tolerant of inexact setup, but that just shows what we've been getting away with for years!

@epicsteve

I read it, but was in fact seeing – “there are no significant benefits” as none of the minor things you mention have ever been an issue for me with 3×9!

If you ride in places where it's all about big climbs followed by a big descent or in places where it's all flat then those may be minor things you can live with.

For the stuff I ride where the gradient is constantly changing 3x9 would be hideous and would completely ruin my mental flow and momentum.

It think to some extent 1x drivetrains have killed singlespeeding. I used to ride singlespeed bikes a lot and loved it because you can just ride without having to think. While you're riding a 1x drivetrain you need to think a little bit but not so much that it ruins your flow and you have the added benefit of being able to ride up really steep stuff and pedal down hills too.

my 'new' bike came with gx 12 speed on and after a while it's become bloody awful, won't index properly. I recently serviced the 9 speed drive train on my older HT, XT. It was like a dream in comparison, piece of piss to index and didn't jump about, faultless changes. I do enjoy the 50t on the gx but would likely sacrifice it to get better changing back.

NewRetroTom

For the stuff I ride where the gradient is constantly changing 3×9 would be hideous and would completely ruin my mental flow and momentum.

I suppose a lot of this comes down to personal preference. I still have 3x9 on both mountain bikes and have been looking recently at modernising my full-sus with a 1x11 system.

One of my concerns - genuine or not - is that with a 3x9 set-up, you can dump a heap of ratios with one click. If you come round a blind corner and are greeted with a sudden climb you can just click the front mech onto the inner ring & move instantly to a massively easier gear.
With a 1x set-up, I guess this takes a few clicks and anecdotally on rides with some mates who run 1x set-ups when we encounter these kind of features on unfamiliar trails there seems to be a fair amount of muttering & crunching from the drivetrain as they try to get the chain across the cassette quickly.

Someone earlier summed it up for me - with 3x you have middle ring for most stuff, inner ring for steep climbs & then big ring for fast descents and fire roads etc.

I am curious so will likely swap. If it turns out that I prefer 3x9, I'll stick the 1x11 on my Wife's bike as I think she would appreciate the simplicity of only having one shifter and put the 3x9 back on mine.

One of my concerns – genuine or not – is that with a 3×9 set-up, you can dump a heap of ratios with one click.

There are downsides to 1x12 systems, I don't think anyone sensible doesn't recognise that. and the issue you point out is certainly one of them. Another is that lack of top end speed...There's no getting away from the fact that a big 44 plate and 11 cog is going to make you go faster on a road/smooth track (whatever) than a 32 chain-ring will.

The upsides are that for 99% of your riding, they're mostly just fine, and you're not going to give it a moments notice (like you didn't with any other gear set up you've ever run before) It''ll cope, you'll be fine.  Gears are after all, just a way of moving a bike, there's no right or wrong way of doing it. If 1x systems don't work, then choose something else that does.

Nope, my AXS performs faultlessly

There’s no getting away from the fact that a big 44 plate and 11 cog is going to make you go faster on a road/smooth track (whatever) than a 32 chain-ring will.

I use the big ring a lot on my Epic, although not so much on the other bikes. 2x12 looks like it'd be ok as (with 28/38 and 10-45) it's only a little lower at the top end and a bit higher at the bottom end. It doesn't look like there is any point changing until I'm no longer able to run 3x9 though.

On the BFe (the only bike I have a 1x set-up on, and has a 32 up front and I think an 11-42 cassette) I do find it runs out of gears pretty quickly at the higher end, but given the type of riding it's used for it's not an issue. It'd be pretty annoying on the Epic though.

How does one successfully realign a bent mech cage?

I've found sticking each plate in a vice and copying a "good" mech works on 10sp. Part pulling the cage and part squeezing...

Don't know if it will work on 12sp though... (be close enough)

 It’d be pretty annoying on the Epic though.

yep, for folk who're used to that "cruising" gear, it's pretty annoying, but the truth is that's just not the case for most* mountain bikers, and like all mass produced stuff, 1x systems are made to accommodate the masses not the few.

* queue the thread being deluged with "I'm Spartacus" posts agreeing that they will all miss a 44/11 gear....

Never having to set up a front mech is quite a nice advantage of single ring setups for me. The 1x11 setup on my hardtail feels like it could do with a bit more range when I'm bimbling around the Pentlands, as there's some unpleasant climbs as well as long road drags, I may upgrade it to a 12 speed drivetrain soon. I've not had any issues with the 1x12 setup on my full suspension bike.

The thing about the top ratios, is that other than on the road you really don't use 'em much. I thought I did, but I was mostly in the big ring but not in the highest gears. And 36/10 is as high as all but the top 2 IIRC. Offroad, I mostly just spin a little faster- I used to like pushing a big gear but I'm pretty sure I got faster when I stopped doing that. (and I always think it's worth remembering that downhill bikes don't use big high gears)

Also,

I've built loads of bikes with 12 speed. Rear derailleur alignment is critical and a lot of bikes straight out the box aren't straight, not helped by derailleur hangers that are made from plasticine. It's easy to see why the indexing goes out when you can flex it by hand.

What some seem to forget with 2x and 3x transmissions before clutch mechanisms was chain suck hell - single speed was sometimes necessary because you just wanted to ride for more than 2 hours.

Yup, I had 2x9 with a chain device and even then chain management was an issue. Now I literally can't remember the last time I had a chain come off, clog or suck except in a crash. (and even that was last August) narrow/wide chainrings are sorcery

The thing at present is that there are lots of wide range 8/9/10 speed cassettes about at the cheap end of the market (Amazon/aliexpress/ebay are full of them) and I'm sure there are lots of people with still functional 8/9/10 speed mechs/shifters either still in use or sat at the bottom of a spares box...

Giving an "off brand" 11-46, 10 speed cassette a go isn't actually much of a risk if it gets you the thing that pukka shimano/SRAM 12 speed promise which is more range, without the cost. Who really cares about the bigger jumps between gears when your a couple of hundred quid up on the deal?

Why not?