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Sometimes it’s subtle, sometimes it’s not.
<br />In the dry, DHF or DHR I’m not too fussed either way. When it gets softer and wetter, I notice a big difference and it’s DHR all the way. <br />Assegai vs Magic Mary and I’d be hard pressed to choose a favourite. <br /><br />
Maxxis Aggressor in 2.3 is crap, while in 2.5 I found it a great 3 season tyre. <br /><br />
Exo and Exo+ I can’t tell any difference but I don’t like DD casings as I think they are very dead feeling. I’d rather run a lighter casing at a bit higher pressure. <br /><br />
well, time to buy a gravel bike.
burn! /wink
I kind of get what you're saying, but I don't believe you can't feel the difference.
It depends on how much you're expecting a change - a move from a super soft component to a soft component is minimal, likewise going from a Hans Damf to a HR2, it's likely that you won't notice it either. The same with changing the pressure by a couple psi - 23 vs 25 doesn't make a world of difference.
BUT, and it's a big BUT, you'd 100% be able to tell the difference between riding on an Aspen vs a DHF. Or running 18psi vs 30psi.
The place I notice the biggest difference is in cornering and braking. That's where they are 'grippier' or go over easier or let me throw on the anchors later, and I'd say all of those are pretty big and obvious ride traits.
Conti vert pros, everything ever since has just been marketing hype.
BUT, and it’s a big BUT, you’d 100% be able to tell the difference between riding on an Aspen vs a DHF. Or running 18psi vs 30psi.
Well yes... i expect/would hope so 🙂
But we're talking more 'basis on a theme' with say 2 Enduro based tyres and 2 sets of pressures very close to one another.
@weeksy so what you’re saying is that similar tyres from different brands ride more or less the same?
In which case I agree.
I’m sure in couldn’t tell 2 tyres with the same intended use from each other
But the OP started with I can’t tell the difference between tyres as a general statement
Going from the original Forkaster to a High Roller in the winter slop round here is night and day. It’s not a humble brag. Pedal and the bike moves forward, turn the bars and the bike turns a corner. With the summer tyres it was straight lines only really
so what you’re saying is that similar tyres from different brands ride more or less the same?
Kinda, so I've got the Bontrager SE5 fitted, which if you ignore the logo, is a DHR, I've tried a MM, Assegai, probably a few others and I can't notice one being better over another.
Or say an Exo over a maxxterra, probably even a maxxgrip
Current Trek came with some Bontrager xr5, 2.5. Not awful, but not great either. Tried for a few weeks now. The normal Mary front (u/soft) and Betty rear (soft) will be going on sharpish. Almost cheat like grip levels in comparison.
This:
“But we’re talking more ‘basis on a theme’ with say 2 Enduro based tyres and 2 sets of pressures very close to one another.”
Does not mean the same as this:
“Anyone else not able to notice any difference in tyres ?”
Not at all.
Is your day job writing clickbait headlines for the Daily Mail?!!
**** me, I do wonder why I bother discussing bikes on here.
Or say an Exo over a maxxterra, probably even a maxxgrip
Swapped a DHF maxxterra for a maxxgrip ready for winter… difference was night and day on wet trails around here.
Both EXO+ (which is just Maxxis getting EXO right on the second attempt really).
Or say an Exo over a maxxterra, probably even a maxxgrip
You're confusing your casings with your compounds.
“**** me, I do wonder why I bother discussing bikes on here.”
I like your discussions - but seriously, this was stupid! If you’d said “does anyone have trouble telling the difference between very similar tyres?” you’d have had an interesting and relevant discussion.
But what you originally said was nothing like that - an enduro cut spike (eg Shorty) behaves so differently to a harder conditions enduro tyre (eg DHF) to a more summer tyre (Dissector or Minion Semi-Slick). Same with a DH casing vs an XC casing. Or a super soft sticky compound vs a harder faster compound. If you ever ride reasonably fast on reasonably loose or slippery terrain, or pedal up any big hills, you can’t fail to notice the difference!
Get two tyres with similar design goals, tread, casing, etc, yes they feel very similar.
“Both EXO+ (which is just Maxxis getting EXO right on the second attempt really).”
Exo was fine! Original Exo+ was rubbish. New Exo+ is good. Not confusing at all…
Have recently swapped to Continental tyres, after a long time user of Maxxis.
I always preferred to run a DHR up front, find that the assegai side knobs are quite far over, so you have to give it a decent lean to engage. Don't find it that precise and would of loved a 2.5 DHR2, taller knobs would be perfect. The DHF is close, but not as good under braking and find its a bit too rounded.
The Conti's are really good, can see why a lot of top riders like to run them and black them out (Bruni on Argotals at one of the wet DH's). Find that the side knobs engage that bit faster than the assegai and the tread is slightly taller so deals with mixed conditions.
Patiently waiting for the super soft enduro casings to appear, as the DH casing can be a bit on the stiff side at times.
Easy enough between different types of tyres. Swapping between DHR2 and Dissector on the rear, I notice rolling speed, drive traction, and braking traction. Swapping DHR2 and Der Baron Projekt on the front, I notice the steering grip.
Trouble is though I'll always have read reviews before buying a tyre. Conti Kryptotal Re reviews say it rolls faster than a DHR2, Bike Magazin lab test says it even rolls faster than a Dissector. So I'm going out riding expecting it to be faster, and yep it feels faster.
Conti vert pros, everything ever since has just been marketing hype.
They should do a 29er super sticky version 😁
‘basis on a theme’ with say 2 Enduro based tyres and 2 sets of pressures very close to one another.
In which case, yes, I agree. For most riders I'd say the difference between a HR2 and a Hans Dampf in Maxterra/Supersoft is utterly minimal and if they're run at the same pressure then unless you do back to back runs the chances of actually noticing a difference is probably slim.
I probably have to own up and say I'm pretty insensitive to the nuances of MTB tyre performance too.
I'll notice if the pressure is significantly too high/low mostly because they bounce or squirm as a result, but I couldn't tell you if 'this' or 'that' tread pattern, rubber compound or carcass construction has a significant effect on things for me.
Tell me you’re a bimbler workout telling me you’re a bimbler.
I probably am a bimbler these days TBF, but also as a bimbler (which if we're being honest lots of riders are) I've not really got the time, money or inclination to go out 'testing' lots of different tyres in various conditions or indeed deliberately crashing to "find limits" I really just want to fit a pair of tyre and ride them until they're knackered, knowing they provide the sort of grip/traction/rolling/weight/wear characteristics a bimbler like me might want, I just want adequate tyres.
I am currently needing some new tyres for my Stumpy for "general" trail riding (mostly used in the dry) and honestly I've not got clue what to get but seeing as a fresh pair of MTB tyres is £70~£100ish quid these days I don't really want to get that choice "wrong" or try to do it by (expensive) trial and error. What I do notice from various comments here and elsewhere is that people seem to adopt a brand or maybe two and that then becomes the tyres they seem to 'know' and like as a result. Are people spouting about MTB tyres really knowledgeable or is it just that they've 'picked a team' and are defending that choice?
I've been using some (old) Butchers F+R which are draggy (IMO), way past their best in terms of any actual grip.
I assume there's something better out there from all the negative comments people generally seem to have about specialized tyres, so I might as well move on from them.
Lots of people seem to love them but I'm currently finding the Schwalbe product range a bit baffling, with so many treads and so many Carcass/rubber versions and seemingly so little obvious difference (on paper) between a DH/Enduro/Trail tyre from them, they might make some great tyres, but I would probably manage to buy some duffers given all the confusing variations...
I've not bough a Maxxis MTB tyre in a few years either, not sure how they stack up today, Minions are a bit too full DH probably, HR II are apparently deadly (if you believe the internet), not sure I can be arsed understanding all the other tyres they sell TBH.
I'm sort of drawn towards Vittoria at the minute because they seem to be describing intended use in more of their blurb rather than just lobbing about superlatives, but I shouldn't just choose based on the clarity of their marketing waffle I guess, do they make decent trail tyres? The Mazza, Martello, Agarro, Syerra and Barzo are all appealing in different ways for front and/or rear use.
Michelin? 'Galic shrug'... Not a clue, again they seem to have a few cheerleaders having dropped off the radar and come back again.
WTB? they're still about making lots of different tyres but are they really just something for OEMs to slap on the wheels or are they actually any good?
I'm getting decision fatigue.
Or logos that match your frame colour best.
Some you notice a difference with, mainly down to tread pattern, but nobody can really tell the difference on a tyre thats 2.5mm larger.
I've a 2.4" Nobby Nic on the front and a 2.3" Nobby Nic on the back, the 2.4 has more aggressive side knobs (fnar). I'd have bought two 2.4"s if I'd known that there was such a difference.
In Schwalbe I’d go Magic Mary front going into the winter. Soft compound / super trail casing. If you want fast ish rolling then Nobby Nic rear probably.
Michelin - I was fairly pleased with my Wild Enduro until it’s started disintegrating - only been on the bike 5 months in total and not used every week. Has a huge crack across the tyre at one point and a number of knobs look very sorry for themselves prematurely.
Wtb make some good tyres - Vigilante front is probably similar to DHF / Butcher etc. Verdict is burlier for wetter conditions like a Magic Mary. On the rear the Trailboss is alright for nice weather. Not sure what the rear tyre is for burlier stuff.
I’ve not used Vitoria but the Mazza is similar to the DHF - but it’s meant to be heavier / draggier. Designed by the same guy that did the DHF. Would probably put the Martello on the rear to pair the Mazza front. The others you mentioned I wouldn’t personally run - bit low on the grip levels.
I can definitely tell the difference swapping between various things in the shed and I'm distinctly average (may be overplaying the ability).
I was interested to see the Butcher described in such unkind terms on the first page. Still the best general front tyre I've had so I shall clearly be going much faster when I wear that out and replace it with something else.
When I've put the Forekastr up front it feels utterly vague and lacking in bite by comparison to the Butcher. Now I really wonder what I'm missing 🤔
The rear tyre on main bike has generally varied between Cross King (black chilli), storm control, spesh ground control and a couple of others. Each has got its own strengths and weaknesses. The Forekaster (TR EXO) seems draggy as hell on the rear.
I was interested to see the Butcher described in such unkind terms on the first page.
The newer versions are supposed to be ok
The old ones were lethal and documented as such by many, many people.
Pretty certain if I'd have been using a MM rather than a Butcher a few years ago, I wouldn't be sat here with a plate in my jaw
The old ones were lethal and documented as such by many, many people.
Yes they were. They were alright for the first few months, but once through the thin top layer, were as dangerous as other hard compound tyres, when used as a front. A typical DHF would last twice to three times as long before it was unusable.
The worst tyres I've had have been the ones with hard compounds. Old Michelin Rock R and as already mentioned a worn Butcher. When on the front I could make them slide in dry berms with alarming ease, where even the most mediocre/worn ragged tyres would grip. I just moved them to the rear, where it was ok until proper winter slop had set in!
Hmm I'm on an old Butcher (I don't do enough miles clearly!). Now I'm really intrigued what I'm missing out on.
What 2.3/2.4 front trail tyre for...
Someone who has failed to notice how bad their front tyre was but still thinks it's better than a Forekaster 🤔
Well I've got a pair of Nobby nics and a Hans Dampf in the basket, I'm tempted to just get the nics and then see if I really want a more chunky tread on the front or not later...
If strangers on the internet really reckon they're a good trade off for grip/rolling (for a self confessed bimbler) then why not give them a whirl... 🙂
What 2.3/2.4 front trail tyre for…<br />Someone who has failed to notice how bad their front tyre was but still thinks it’s better than a Forekaster
Butcher? i won a pair of 2.3. light, but suffered lots of punctures in the back. i was disappointed, but not surprised given thd weight. fine on the front.
To make things more complicated some tyre companies recycle the model names for completely different tyres. Specialized might be worst example (Ground Control and Purgatory), Schwalbe to some extent with Nobby Nic which is perhaps on its 4th iteration now and looking like mini-MM. Maxxis has been fairly consistent but even with DHR2 some widths seem to have different knob spacing and new Forekaster looks to be quite different from previous one.
On the Butxher for a front tyre I’d suggest you get the T9 compound. I tried the 2.3” one and found va the 2.5 maxx terra DHF that the Butcher would break away suddenly on the limit where the DHF was more gradual. So after a few months I sold the Butcher on and replaced with another DHF. But then I’m a serial tyre swapper and have since run an Assegai, a Wild Enduro and now a Kryototal on the front. <br /><br />
if I were going to try a front butcher again I’d try the 2.6” version I think. T9 / Grid Trail.
I like my 2.6” Hillbilly on the front when the weather is gopping - I think it’s like a Magic Mary but with a bit more mud capability but perhaps a bit less good on hardpack. That’s the T7 / Grid Trail one that was just before the current T9 one.
I still think that compound and carcass are more important than tread (in a like-for-like tread size comparison).
I can *feel* stiff sidewalls, I can feel weak ones collapse at the silly low pressures some folk run, I can feel the extra comfort that a supple tyre brings. Best for suppleness in my experience have been Vittoria and Bonrager, worst were old Continental or Specialized.
I also think compound(s) on tyres do a lot of the lifting - and I can feel in the way they 'let go' at the limit. As I said, I can feel the difference between a sudden release and a slide - and think it a combination of compound and blocks squirming.
Michelin – I was fairly pleased with my Wild Enduro until it’s started disintegrating – only been on the bike 5 months in total and not used every week. Has a huge crack across the tyre at one point and a number of knobs look very sorry for themselves prematurely.
Wild Enduro's have been my go-to tyres for my full-sus's for a fair few years now, never had a crack nor premature wear but then I struggle to get them past 3 months of use as they're pretty worn out at 400 miles (Scotland, so lots of rocks). But grip like a bu99er in all conditions and I've only ever punctured one (rear that took 4 worms to seal).
Well I fitted the front Nic to my Stumpy last night and yeah just handling the new and old tyres the difference is noticeable, a suppler carcass, deeper, softer, closer spaced tread lugs and a wee bit less weight, I can see how these will suit me better.
I'm still putting those knackered old butchers on the HT for winter though 🙂 gotta get my money's worth out of them...