[Closed] Anyone else not get on with hardtails?

Personal preference and riding style I guess.

I have an Orange Crush 26er which was alright, good fun. I've recently sold my 160mm Cube Stereo for a Stanton Switchback with a 160mm fork on the front and I have no regrets about it at all.

A friend commented how sketchy it looks riding behind me watching the back wheel bouncing around all over the place but I'll be honest I don't feel it and the imbalance of 160mm up front to 0mm on the rear never really crosses my mind.

Just depends how you ride them!

You're doing it wrong.
Love my HT. So responsive and gets me up and down everything I want.
The only time I miss my FS is big long days for comfort and feeling fresher and occasional uber rocky lines that I have to slow on.

Nope. Just two carbon HTs here and they're both perfect.

nope, i love my 456 and will always have a hardtail... i'm actually debating whether or not i should sell my full sus as the HT will do 95% of what my full sus can do...

I can see where you are coming from, my suspension forks died recently so went to rigid carbon. It needed a little change to my riding style but it's brilliant (especially with B+ tyres) and I manage most (if not more) things that I could before. Whenever I think about getting a FS I realise that there's just two trails around here where it would be preferable to my HT and while I can do them on the HT, it's just hard work and I just need to apply rule #5.

@Paul_B The sketchiness of the backend of a HT is something my wife took a bit of getting used to having ridden a FS for some years, A FS bike "sticks" to the terrain whereas a HT or rigid pings around (for want of better terms). So long as you still get traction when you need it then letting the backend do what it wants is no big deal.

Interesting to see Josh Kato's bike for this year's Tour Divide: A full-suss with Lauf forks. The rear suspension takes the sting out of the many miles of trail while you don't need the weight and complexity of standard suspension forks for dirt roads, so something like the Laufs are ideal.

Nope, love my Whippet.

Yes I can't be doing with clattering over things getting shaken to death. Fine for a tow path pootle I'm sure but they are not for me.

Whilst i have no problem with hardtails in general, I always have similar thoughts about agro hardtails. If you are ploughing into stuff hard enough to need a 140+mm fork then the back end is going to be kicking like a mule. Maybe someone can explain them for me, cos I sure as hell don't get it.

Fork set up (especially if longer travel) is key to avoid the front end diving too much.As is a different riding style.
I never own a fs for more than about 9 months before I get fed up of it and go back to a ht.

I'm not keen on long travel HT's for this reason, owt over 100mm on a HT feels wrong..

Stop 'ploughing into stuff' and pick some actual lines? 😉
See....'different riding style'

Stop 'ploughing into stuff' and pick some actual lines?
See....'different riding style'

Exactly, you cannot ride a HT like a FS, you have to look for the HT line rather than letting the shock take the hit at the back. Roots are a pain in the arse though.

Saying that, Ive never owned a FS bike.

@Khani I had the fork on my HT (Cotic Solaris) set at 120mm, felt fine but I think on a 26" or 650b then 100mm would be right.

If the majority of your riding is trail centres or rough stuff such as those trails around Ladybower then a FS is ideal otherwise a HT is more than enough.

Yes. I recently sold my Solaris despite having quite an emotional attachment to it as I was forced to conclude that hardtails just aren't for me. I don't like the way you can get pitched forwards if the front end compresses or the fact that the front lets you plough through stuff only for the rear to beat the crap out of you. All personal preference of course, but I replaced it with a 5" rigid fatbike, which suits me much better. More comfortable and more confidence inspiring (as the geometry isn't always changing).

This is all in addition to a good full-suss of course 🙂

a hardtail makes you pick your line better, its good to ride one from time to time to up your game, but my mate must have balls of steel the speed he goes down some singletrack our way.

Yup, me. Certainly where I ride I get fed up of hardtails within a pretty short time and go back to full suspension. I don't personally find that getting bounced around makes a ride fun, I find that the feeling of flowing along really fast and being able to smoothly hold lines through corners peppered with rocks and roots is fun, so for me, a hardtail is just less fun. I don't personally understand this notion that a bike that smooths the trail out too much is less fun, perhaps it's just not smooth enough where I am for this to ever be an issue.
For what it's worth, I get the impression that Steve Jones of Dirt magazine is pretty much anti hardtail too, or at least doesn't see the point of them.

You just get used to it, don't you? Years (if you're of an age, anyway) of riding them will make them feel 'normal'. I love my 150mm HT but just can't get away with FS bikes. I've tried, I've had various with different amounts of travel but they just bore me (because I'm not fast enough probably!)

[troll] It'd be interesting to know how many FS riders have come into MTBing fresh from nappies, so to speak, and how many HT/rigid riders have grown up through BMX and therefore know how to ride a bike... 😉 [/troll]

a hardtail makes you pick your line better

... Exactly!! ... sure, for pure DH, an FS is the right tool, but an FS masks a skills deficit for most riding

Lights blue touch paper and retreats 😀

Nope, I think they're ace

I'd got caught up in the have your cake and eat it of all mountain / enduro bikes but ended up sacking my 160mm bike and off for a hardtail because I found myself constantly riding the little hardtail that I'd built up for mucking about on. It was just so much fun. A bit slower through the rough stuff but quicker on the smoother stuff and it made me smile more. I also don't need worry about pivot bearings etc and just chucking it in the garage after a wet shitty ride.

I like longer travel hardtails and and currently running my Ti Switchback with 140mm forks. There are some places that I rode and my Rune was immense for but I just don't get to ride them often.

I seem to have switched between FS & HT several times. Currently on HT, have never ridden a BMX.

I'm with the OP. I like the idea of a HT but when I ride one I wish I was on my FS. Every HT rider may think they're a riding god but I'd prefer to ride further and faster, in more comfort.

I've done my time on HT so won't be going back any time soon.

Different ideas of 'fun', isn't it? If you like having to think about where you point the bike and like a little bit of sketch, ride a hardtail. If you like being able to blat about, flat out downhill, and not worry [i]too[/i] much about what the back end's doing, ride a FS.

Bikes, innit. Fun.

Always had one when I lived down south, got a lot of use out of it.

Don't make as much sense for my normal riding now I live up north, so I've been without one for the best part of a year.

Guess what I just bought though...

Aren't most of the comments on this thread simply justifications for whatever the poster is riding at the moment? (myself included)

Guess what I just bought though...

A quarter of cola cubes and a 10p carton of pop? Do I win £5?

edit- made no sense at all 😆

I'm quite the opposite, whilst I see the benefits of a nice full sus, I just can't get the hardtails off my fleet, indeed I just built one up.

Every HT rider may think they're a riding god but I'd prefer to ride further and faster, in more comfort.

... and every FS rider also thinks they're riding like a god!

When I did a stint as a ski instructor I always used to say it's better to ski a blue or red in control and with style rather than hurtle down a black out of control just to earn the bragging rights. Maybe the analogy stretches to MTB??

Lights touch paper of big rocket this time 😀 😀

 

I ride rigid in the winter and stick suspension up front for the summer. I have tried fs a few times but it just feels strange. When I swap from rigid to ht in the spring it takes a couple of rides to get used to the feeling.

It'd be interesting to know how many FS riders have come into MTBing fresh from nappies, so to speak, and how many HT/rigid riders have grown up through BMX and therefore know how to ride a bike...

Hardtails are fine through the technical "gnar" and on proper "trails": The problem I have with them is the constant chatter over hardpack ground, particularly on rough bridleways.

However, [u]man-made[/u] trails have changed and got steeper and rougher and what you can do on a bike, or at least what you can ride at speed, has come on hugely since those days as suspension, tyres and geometry have improved and [b]it would feel enormously limiting to go back[/b].

Which is part of what [b]you[/b] get out of riding [b]your[/b] bike. It's subjective, isn't it, and there's no 'right' or 'wrong'? I love my HT but then I don't ride at trail centres much, but I do like riding down stairs and doing skids and wheelies 😆

Had a 456 with old zocchi 150mm travel forks on for years. Bought a orange partrio x cell 66 frame and moved everything over. Sold that and now have a ns bikes clash fram with 150mm revelation world cups.

Hardtail are fine just gotta build up your thighs to take the bumps

Erm, a no from me to the OP i'm afraid. Have ridden everything from rigid to long travel full sus, currently have short travel FS, long travel FS, long travel HT. The HT gets by far the most use locally in the peaks and recently over 2 weeks in the alps (backcountry not bike park mind), and i'd say is the most predictably handling setup i've ever had.

The unbalanced issue - I think you do need to put a lot of effort into getting your bike setup right to get the best out of long travel hardtails, and also your body position; you have to do a lot more work using your legs as suspension and getting your weight in the right place. However, surely it's even worse with rigid... haven't ridden rigid for a number of years now but friends advise it's pretty brutal on the body (i.e much more so) on our local trails.

That said, ride whatever you enjoy. Fun is more important than fast anyway.

Which is part of what you get out of riding your bike. It's subjective, isn't it, and there's no 'right' or 'wrong'? I love my HT but then I don't ride at trail centres much, but I do like riding down stairs and doing skids and wheelie

As been said, it's a different style of riding. Need to get the fork setup right. Then make the front work when you're hitting the gnarr, letting the back end float over stuff.

It's long flat pedally rooty rocky sections when you're tired that can get a bit tedious.

it would feel enormously limiting to go back.

Partly why I like a HT. Tackling steep rough stuff quickly is more of a challenge and harder work, makes it more fun IMO. If I was racing that stuff I'd definitely be on a FS as it would be quicker, but for fun and playing about I like a HT.

Fun is more important than fast anyway

Well, yes, but the illusion of faster is funner, whether it's [i]actually[/i] faster or not

Fixed, no charge 😀

the best rider i know, and he did come from a bmx background, and was very very good, can ride any line he chooses, but ive never seen him ride his hard tail, its full suss every time.

i dont get on with hard tails either, even on a 456 i feel like im pitched way too forwards, and the back end does my back in.

The fs may be a skills compensator, but i enjoy it more

Interesting thread and I do agree, it does feel more balanced to me. I have often wondered if the front suspension hardtail thing, was that manufacturers of bikes sort of added the front suspension forks as a marketing tool to sell bikes over fully rigid going back into the archives of MTB. It was a chicken before the egg thing, then they decided to make full suspension bikes a bit after.

It would have made more sense to have a fully suspended bike straight off. No doubt some smart arse will say such and such made a a full suss bike before even front suspension hardtails were available. This is the mainstream I'm meaning though not niche one offs and the like.

It's very tame round where I live, mostly bridleway and fireroad style bashing with some bits every now and then

So I supplemented my hardtail with a rigid last summer. Was set up SS but now has gears and is set up as a bit of a gravel grinder

Always had a hardtail, always will.
Love riding it on trails that challenge, even my 160mm bike, and love trying to keep up with mates on gnarpoon enduro sled rig weapons.

As mentioned above though, it's the stutter bumps and wallowy holes where you get bucked more than a fs where they annoy slightly. It's probably just laziness of style though after being used to riding full suss.

Me poor rims though.... 😯

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Well, yes, but the illusion of faster is funner, whether it's actually faster or not

Very true that.

the best rider i know, and he did come from a bmx background, and was very very good, can ride any line he chooses, but ive never seen him ride his hard tail, its full suss every time.

Not really sure what that's meant to be proving? Really is a personal choice thing I think. He might like it because it means he can go faster, or have a greater number of lines to choose from, may suit his rad skillz, might just be his preference based on the way he likes to ride. Or maybe he just likes to sit and spin on the rooty flats 🙂

Although hardtails are great fun, I still feel like there is a time and a place for travel out back (even if all you ride are trail centres) to get the most out of the ride. At the end of the day, I can't go riding every day and when I do I want to have as much fun as possible and push myself, and sometimes having a hardtail allows you to do this. Other times a full sus will be ideal.

Indeed, it's nice to have both types of steed in your quiver 🙂

the best rider i know, and he did come from a bmx background, and was very very good, can ride any line he chooses, but ive never seen him ride his hard tail, its full suss every time.

I came from a BMX background but I have always favoured rigid single speed which I always put down to wanting something more in the mold of a BMX. Have even used a 24" race BMX in place of MTB a few years back.
So doesn't really prove anything other than they sold out to gears and suspension 🙂

Interesting replies, but did you all miss the bit where I said I had a fully rigid? It's not that I [i]can't[/i] ride anything but a FS, more that I don't like both ends of the bike not feeling the same. I'm perfectly capable of riding without suspension, thank-you very much!

If you read my first reply you'll see that I'm on a fully rigid bike. I only have one MTB

No problem going downhill on mine but pancaking my vertebrae on lumpy bumpy tech climbs really does get tiresome quite quicky

but did you all miss the bit where I said I had a fully rigid?

Nah, we saw that bit but when there's the tiniest chance to start an argument, STW's all over it 😆

I sometimes yank my 24" BMX out for laughs and misery. It's bloody hard work!

thestabiliser - Member

No problem going downhill on mine but pancaking my vertebrae on lumpy bumpy tech climbs really does get tiresome quite quicky

stand up more/lots.

easy.

Am already quite a "standy" climber, maybe I should get off and push.

Or buy a new 29er hardtail for all that rolloverabilitiness.....hmmmmm

^ that (the standing up thing).

My knees don't like hardtails any more 🙁

I got no interest in riding hard tails. Built one up, used it twice off road and hated it. Couldn't ride it as fast which to me is a major part of my enjoyment. Just too much of a compromise in south wales.

The whole picking lines I think is rubbish, you can because you ride slower on a hard tail.

I get the impression that Steve Jones of Dirt magazine is pretty much anti hardtail too, or at least doesn't see the point of them.

Equally there are guys at Dirt who love them. Check out their review of the Ti Switchback mark two.

I have basically always ridden hardtails (always steel) with only brief dalliances into FSdom, and I haven't owned a proper modern full suspension bike. Last FSer I owned was a Marin Wolf Ridge

I'm probably not best to tell you the differences but I can tell you this.

Forks with linear spring rates are a bit of a pain especially when you get over 120mm travel, you end up compensating for shit spring rate with damping which isn't ideal. Current bike has Pikes and the Token system really helps with this.

Rear wheels on "trail hardtails" get a hammering, 29ers seem to be less susceptible to this as the rear wheel skips over stuff more than a 26/27.5er.

Spent 18 months riding rigid 29 and 29+ bikes and I found that whilst they are ace for mile munching and slower technical riding they (unsurprisingly) struggle when things get faster and rougher.
When the time came to for a new bike (old ones were nicked) I decided a 140mm forked 29er hardtail would be the right tool for the job. And to be fair it is...

Got 2 x hardtails. A cotic BFe and a racey 29er from Canyon. Both great bikes, and love riding them. Tried the Full Suss (Rose Granite Chief and a Santa Cruz Nickel, but tbh I will always prefer my Hardtails.)

agree with the OP, I only ride rigid bikes, inc. a BMX, or the full sus.
Hardtail is the worst of both worlds IMO

I was in Morzine last week. Since I was on my own and not smashing out laps with the 'Bros' I left the DH bike in the shed for a few days and did everything I'd normally do on my YT Tues on a Cotic Bfe.

It was actually really fun. Much slower but with a much higher sensation of speed. I'd compare it to barrelling down the lanes in a classic car compared to sitting at 140mph in a plush German mile muncher. Much more stuff to concentrate on.

It stopped being fun between trails. On the flat-out fire road sections where I would normally sit down and rest my brakes I had to reign it in as I felt that's where I was more likely to have a massive crash.

So anyway, yeah, bikes are fun.

At the age of 42, i LOVE that feeling of hustling a hardtail at speed through some roughstuff.

At the age of 42, however, my back is starting to really not like that same feeling 😯

I've not long rebuilt my only HT ... with rigid forks.
None of my bicycles now have suspension - I don't seem to get on with it.
I'm an old man now tho', so I don't spose I'm missing out on much.

As an aside, but in the interests of completeness, whilst I don't mind gears, I don't really like indexed shifting either, so tend to build stuff with friction shifting where ever possible.

I know someone who never got on with hardtails who then recommended to everyone he knew who had just started to ride to go fs immediately. He rides very well, but as a result there are a bunch of riders who ride fs sat down all the time.

I think it's preference. I have a nice HT and a nice FS, mostly I ride them in the same places depending on my mood. I do tend toward summer HT and winter FS which I know is 'wrong' but works for me. If I'm nervous about somewhere for any reason I'll probably always go for the FS and also if I'm carrying an injury.

I don't quite subscribe to the 'HT makes you a better rider' thing, but it certainly teaches you to pay more attention to line, and gets you riding loose "in" the bike properly (unless you want to be kicked silly). TBH the biggest problem o have jumping between HT and FS on the same trails is remembering that the frame compresses on the FS and there's places I can't full-crank without smacking a pedal into a rock that would have been fine on the HT...

Suspension both ends; fine, feels balanced, don't care how much travel.
Rigid both ends; fine, feels balanced.
Hardtail; nope, feels wrong.

Yes I have definitely had this feeling for exactly the same reasons.

I made an almost identical post about 5 years ago.

However when I was younger I ran a hardtail no problems and now I do tend to run my 29er hardtail with 80mm of suspension in the winter/for races.

So tastes can change.

But I do prefer the 29er with rigid forks if I can get away with them. Although on the downs the Suspension is good it just makes the bike feel "bobby" when climbng/on the flat.

Never got on with hardtails either. Spent ten years riding rigid then went straight to short-travel FS. Now can't stand on pedals for more than about 90secs due to neurological bollocks and age. Either ride rigid or 150mm trail bike. Hardtails just don't suit me.

My 3 favourite descents are Parkamoor to Nibthwaite, The Beast, and Cavedale. My bike is a Mk1 Soul. I sometimes borrow a friend's Trek Remedy for 3 day trips. I find that while I end up less beat up on the Trek those lovely sections aren't half as much of a challenge and are over too soon. Where's the fun in that? And don't say go faster because at my age the resulting tumble gets a bit serious.

I hit 'peak HT' about 2008 with my lovely Cove Hummer. Brilliant for the Chilterns and the occasional trip away. Then moved here (FoD/Malverns) and went back to FS (had a few nasty ones before. Ellsworth ISIS anyone?) and eventually sold all the HT's. Then bought a non chubby Trek Stache to ride in the winter. Which soon morphed into a chubby trek stache via a Calibre Dune fat bike.

Chubby works for me, still get the HT hit especially on loamy/fast singletrack but also a bit of cush for the aging back. Having the trek and and Aeris works for me as local means HT, weekends / trips away means FS.

Although I am demo-ing a Cotic Flare Max in a couple of weeks, That might end financially badly...

Ragged t'on one down parkamoor today. Just one ohshitohshitohshit losing the back in a rock garden moment. Good times

My brother-in-law always went on about me still riding a HT (C456) and how I'd be a much stronger rider when I went full suss (which id planned for my 40th - bike arrived last week) to which I always responded, "you've only ridden FS so you should try it; you might improve your skills - to which he laughs. One day we swapped before a fairly easy trail. His Trance was cramped for me but was ok. Finished the trail and 5mins later he turned up moaning "how the hell do I ride these things". He'd tanked it, bent the bars, covered it and him in shite, generally came a cropper due to poor line choice and bad positioning - I revelled for the rest of that ride.

I can't wait to ride my new bike in anger but I'm keeping the HT and it will continue to amaze me.

Exactly, you cannot ride a HT like a FS, you have to look for the HT line rather than letting the shock take the hit at the back. Roots are a pain in the arse though.

I rode a hardtail for quite a while before switching. It was those hits at the back which made me fear for the wheel switched me to a FS. The other thing was my ass, which also agrees the FS is better (for me).

I got a short travel (100mm) FS bike ('10 Santa Cruz Superlight) and absolutely love it. When time comes to upgrade I think I could sometimes do with something a bit slacker on the geometry side of things, but other than that its awesome 🙂

I definitely felt that it was too much bike for me when I first got it, it just wanted to go fast. I'm much more used to it now. I still try to pick the best line, but knowing you can get-out-of-shit without getting overly bounced and pinged around makes snap route decisions in the moment less panicky. There are things i'll go over on my FS that I would have avoided on my HT.

Also there are lots of misinformation there about FS, like losing power climbing etc. Lock out the suspension if need be!

So.. I think that FS can be more forgiving, and agree that learning the ropes on a HT is a good idea as it will give you that 'insight' for line choice. (or you'll end up like the chap in paulneenan76's anecdote)

I've never ridden a full suss, of any kind, ever. I don't feel like i'm missing out on anything, so long as i'm out riding the trails/.

As others have said, it's all about your personal idea of fun. I've ridden mainly hardtails (peaks, local Macc routes and occasional trail centres and visits further afield). I tried full suss, but found it boring. It took away the fear and always thinking and choosing line elements of the ride. That for me is where the fun lies. It also feels like you're going a hell of a lot quicker than you actually are on a HT in my experience. Had lots of bikes, but really loving my current slack(ish) 29er HT.

If the majority of your riding is trail centres or rough stuff such as those trails around Ladybower then a FS is ideal otherwise a HT is more than enough.

I've never really ridden a good full susser, but I have found when riding a hard tail fast, the back wheel can kick up and cause a scare, mind you my saddle is quite high for pedaling, maybe I need a dropper post..

I've just built up a plus sized HT and am half wondering if I need my Full Suss at all!! Certainly in the Surrey Hills and South Downs, I am almost as quick on the bumpier stuff and way quicker on the twisty stuff and climbs.

That said...went to BP Wales and was glad I was on the Full Bouncer! I love the both in their own way! Why choose when you can do n+1

I don't think it's about "not getting on" with Hardtails, it's just the ride is different, and if all you are used to is a FS then it's going to take a while to adapt your style to them.
I think everyone should start out with a hardtail, then you can buy a FS.
And then there you go...instant perfect bike shed, then you can pick and choose between the 2 depending on what you want out of your next ride.
Personally I love the ride you can get out of a hardtail, and I just chose to race the full 'Ard Rock on one, so they can be more than capable for most riding terrain.

Rode rigid and hardtail for 5 years, swapped to FS in 2000. Built up another hard tail a few years ago, but try as I might I can't gel with it like my FS bikes. Demoted to mud plugging duties, FS all the way for me.