[Closed] Anyone else eyeing up a 2015 Orange Clockwork 120 S (650b / 27.5")

Just me then 😕

Is it a generic HT frame from the far east with budget components bolted to it for a steep price?

Finding it hard to muster a huge amount of excitement...

You're not Guy Martin are you?

I've got a 650 crush,with 140's &
Love it !.

I like it! Looks bulletproof.

Been looking around for a while, the geometry of a 15" seems spot on for me.

Is it a generic HT frame from the far east

with budget components bolted to it

for a steep price?

I'd like to put some Hope/FlowEX on it from new with Black Chilli rubber and sell on the stock wheelset & tyres to claw some outlay back.

Maybe dabble with a Reverb dropper, but Orange want £290 as an upgrade when you buy it and CRC have them for under £200!

aren't most £1000 hardtails generic far east frames with budget equipment on . I think it looks nice

I'd probably go with a 2.2" Rubber Queen / Trail King in the front, but does anyone know if you can squeeze a 2.4" into a Reba?

Another pic:
[img] [/img]

aren't most £1000 hardtails generic far east frames with budget equipment on . I think it looks nice

Many are I suspect but FWIW but the Bird Zero is designed entirely by us right down to the butting on the tubeset. We do all the 3d modelling, FEA etc. here in the UK and then send out the specifications to Taiwan for manufacture. We then import bare painted frames and do all the assembly here in the UK. As we hold huge parts stock you get the benefit of direct pricing while still being able to spec loads of options (alot at no charge) and your bike still gets to you in under 7 days. Every part on that bike is picked to give the best blend of value, weight and long life, hence why even a £995 Zero has an XTR BB, XT Cassette, Spoon saddle, Hope seat clamp... the list goes on. <Blatant Ad Over />

Always good to see companies posting direct to the forum and adding their input.

FWIW but the Bird Zero is designed entirely by us right down to the butting on the tubeset. We do all the 3d modelling, FEA etc. here in the UK and then send out the specifications to Taiwan for manufacture.

Surely this is what all "UK designed" companies do, no? No one would just request a "LTHT" frame from a Taiwanese factory without having first specced every last detail.

I looked at your Birds, VERY well specced for the price, but on the burly side of what I'm after, I think.

Many are I suspect but FWIW but the Bird Zero is designed entirely by us right down to the butting on the tubeset. We do all the 3d modelling, FEA etc. here in the UK and then send out the specifications to Taiwan for manufacture. We then import bare painted frames and do all the assembly here in the UK. As we hold huge parts stock you get the benefit of direct pricing while still being able to spec loads of options (alot at no charge) and your bike still gets to you in under 7 days. Every part on that bike is picked to give the best blend of value, weight and long life, hence why even a £995 Zero has an XTR BB, XT Cassette, Spoon saddle, Hope seat clamp... the list goes on. <Blatant Ad Over />

I wasn't aware an STWer is behind them...

Bloody lovely work fella... you should be proud.

May I suggest learning to utilise paragraphs and the enter key in future blatant ad posts? 🙂

Many are I suspect but FWIW but the Bird Zero is designed entirely by us right down to the butting on the tubeset. We do all the 3d modelling, FEA etc. here in the UK and then send out the specifications to Taiwan for manufacture.

We then import bare painted frames and do all the assembly here in the UK.

As we hold huge parts stock you get the benefit of direct pricing while still being able to spec loads of options (alot at no charge) and your bike still gets to you in under 7 days.

Every part on that bike is picked to give the best blend of value, weight and long life, hence why even a £995 Zero has an XTR BB, XT Cassette, Spoon saddle, Hope seat clamp... the list goes on. <Blatant Ad Over />

Phew.

Pretty sure Orange do the same design work over here as suggested above, at least they used to.

All Orange frames bar the team issue ones are built in taiwan now. Inc all the full sus ones. Not thats this is a bad thing quality wise but considering they market their frames as built in Halifax.....

That bike is very nice looking though. Im waiting on an Orange coloured 650b frame just now. If it looks as good as that, i'll be well chuffed.

haggis1978 - Member

All Orange frames bar the team issue ones are built in taiwan now. Inc all the full sus ones. Not thats this is a bad thing quality wise but considering they market their frames as built in Halifax.....

For example, from the Press Release for the Segment:

Frame highlights:

Handbuilt in Halifax

Boingy bikes are definitely built in Halifax. Rigids, with the exception of the folded stuff (old missiles) were always Taiwanese.

Not that my opinion matters but the clockwork does seem very middle of the road. I can see the appeal of the crush, if that is too 'hardcore' then I think there are better options out there. Boardman for a start, they have a more xc hardtail with a Reba for £1,000

All the Orange FS bikes are Halifax made. They even have the stickers.

Friend of a friend runs a bike shop. Was invited on a tour of factory. Asked several times to see where the bikes were welded and the question was ignored/dodged. Eventually was told that all production aside from team bikes is now done in taiwan.

Built in halifax can easily mean assembled in halifax.

The Orange website still clearly says 'Handbuilt in Halifax' for the FS frames. Why would Orange lie about this? Particularly as to do so would surely breach the trade descriptions act?

Utter rubbish 😆 ! Does your friend of a friend of a friend also breed unicorns? Apparently they make the trails come alive.

Anyway, I've heard that even Taiwanese welders have beards.

Im just going on what i was told. The guy is an Orange dealer so i wont mention who he is but he owns a well respected bike shop here in Glasgow and i do know him myself as well and no he doesnt breed unicorns.

Why do you guys find it so hard to believe that someone has shifted production of their bikes to Taiwan where it is clearly more cost effective? It is a business after all. Does it say that all frames are welded in Halifax on their website? I "build" bikes in my garage all the time. I have a frame and all the componentry and from that i build a full bicycle.

Is it also hard to believe that Orange get a load of swingarms, front triangles, mech hangers, bearings and a shock "build" them up and describe that as handbuilt in halifax?

Orange full sus are made in Halifax not far east.
Its easy to tell by looking at the welding on the frames
Far east produced frames have neat and tidy welds with good penetration.
Halifax welded frames look like oranges 😀

I have to ask- what exactly would a tour of Orange include if you don't see the frame production? Some offices, a paint booth and a room were components are bolted on? They wouldn't offer a 'factory tour' if that was the case.

By that thinking- why haven't they added the'Made in Halifax' tag line to the whole range? hmm.

benpinnick - Member
Many are I suspect but FWIW but the Bird Zero is designed entirely by us right down to the butting on the tubeset. We do all the 3d modelling, FEA etc. here in the UK and then send out the specifications to Taiwan for manufacture. We then import bare painted frames and do all the assembly here in the UK. As we hold huge parts stock you get the benefit of direct pricing while still being able to spec loads of options (alot at no charge) and your bike still gets to you in under 7 days. Every part on that bike is picked to give the best blend of value, weight and long life, hence why even a £995 Zero has an XTR BB, XT Cassette, Spoon saddle, Hope seat clamp... the list goes on. <Blatant Ad Over />

I've never heard of Bird bikes until reading your blatant ad 😳 , but I'm glad you did! your bikes looks great btw, great job!

The FS frames are built/welded/made/whatever down the road from the HQ in Halifax (Well, more like Elland really, maybe even closer to Huddersfield). Paint + builds are done at HQ along with office stuff.

I have a few questions then.

1. Why would my mate that I've known for years lie to me? Answer: He wouldn't.
2. Why would Orange mislead it's supposed loyal customer base who buy their bikes as they believe them to have been hand welded in the UK? I don't know, maybe to help feed dealers in the other 13 countries they have and to continue making money by trading on the UK built bollocks. Nothing in that video that I saw showed me a sufficiently large enough production line to feed that demand. A few guys in some welding booths.

3. How many teams and riders do they sponsor now.

Nobody suggested anyone is lieing did they?

Maybe you & your mate are just wrong? 😆

It's has been said, "why would Orange lie?" If orange are not lying then my mate must be.

Anyway I'm not getting involved anymore. Regardless of where it's built, the bike above is a nice looking bike.

Are we seeing the birth of the Halifax Defence?

I've got an Orange HT that says it's made in Halifax; I don't know what to think now.

the Halifax Defence?

Haggis what would the "how many teams and riders do they sponsor" question prove?

I only really follow DH racing but to answer your question I know they sponsor the dirt team and the riders include Ben Reid, Harry Heath and Jacob Dickson

I guess they sponsor others but I don't see what it proves? (other than your mate being a filthy dirty liar)

Mr Haggis I know you want to be right, but you aren't.

Ok then. I kind of guessed i would get this kind of response. Another question then. What does my mate or i gain from me telling you guys this. Nothing. What do Orange gain by having their bikes fabricated in taiwan and then assembled over here?

My point regarding how many sponsored riders and teams they have is that as i said earlier, their team bikes are fully fabricated and welded over here. Joe Publics' bike comes from taiwan. On their website they say they have a very small team of guys working for them. Would the turnaround of that very small fabricating team keep all their riders and the teams who use their bikes well stocked with bikes and provide sufficient numbers for all their dealers in 13 different countries?

And if individuals are going to turn into keyboard warriors and start being abusive even if its not directed to me but my mate then im going to go in a huff and tell you to jog on you ****t.

Not one person has answered my question though as to why this is so unbelievable. How many other companies have done this? Cannondale anyone? Santa Cruz?

Company tries to make more money by shifting its production overseas SHOCK HORROR!!

Again Im not saying it is a bad thing. It is misleading though.

Not one person has answered my question though as to why this is so unbelievable. How many other companies have done this? Cannondale anyone? Santa Cruz?

My santa cruz proudly displays a made in china badge, it's not something that is hidden.

this thread reminds me of the one where the kid is moaning about his Evil frame being broken and 2nd hand and not realising that he's talking to FTW, the guy that actually made it.

haggis, i don't know you so i don't know your amount of bike trade knowledge, i also don't know your mate at Alpinebikes, that said i don't see anyone insulting your mate here in this thread, on the contrary most people have been saying they just think you're wrong, not lying, just miss informed.

so i say this with respect, most people on this forum have or do work in the bike trade or have a serious interest in bikes (and i'm not saying you don't) as such most of the posters here have a huge amount of knowledge. in this case you are very wrong, all the full suspension bikes are UK made, Steve owns the factory, it was originally his fathers, he now designs most of the bikes from his home in spain and then they are prototyped and then tested and then put into production and made in the UK factory. once made at the factory they then go to the main site where they are powdercoated, stickered and then assembled in the UK before being sent out to dealers.

yes some of the hardtails are made in the far east, but they are actually designed here (well Steve designs them) but either way that is to help get the costs down on that type of bike. Orange have never been secretive about these bikes being built there.

regarding the Guy Martin video, they show you frames being welded, no there isn't a huge production line, it is only a small team of welders etc but then Orange don't turn out 100,000 frames a year, it's somewhere in the region of 5000 bikes a year including the far east stuff. as far as a factory tour goes for your mate he probably was only at the painting/assembly building which is not close to the factory itself.

what i would suggest to you is that you are wrong but have found yourself in a position where you are defending your opinion because as has been said you don't want to be wrong, but you are, i'm sorry if that offends but never the less it's true, you are wrong.

also ask yourself this, are you really that arrogant that when a whole bunch of educated (in the bike trade) people tell you that you are wrong you still refuse to accept it and continue to argue that black is white?

if you are that arrogant to ignore everyone here then i suppose i should crawl back under the rock that i came from with my 20 years of bike trade knowledge and my 8 Orange mountain bikes among the 22 or so bikes i currently own.

Haggis,
I cant really say why your mate is telling porkies as I don't know him but let me give you some options.

1.He is not telling lies, he is simply telling you what he thinks is the case. Perhaps he visited orange and misheard something they said.

2.He is a cold,heartless sales man. He told you anything he thought would make you purchase a bike he wanted to sell.

3. He did not say it all and somehow you miss heard him.

4. You are a troll?

As I said who knows how or why you got this misinformation but as everyone has pointed out the hardtails are made/welded outside of the uk.
The full sus bikes are made in the UK.

The "my mate says so" argument doesn't really have much weight to it - why not phone orange and ask them?

http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/bikes/alpine-160-rs

"Why the Alpine 160 RS?
•Frame Handbuilt in Halifax
"

[rams rudder to full lock, applies maximum thrust to engine room in a bid to move this thread back on track]

So, does anyone own / ridden / have any real life pics of one? 15" looks good on paper for me.

[/rams rudder to full lock, applies maximum thrust to engine room in a bid to move this thread back on track]

Jb666 i dont know you from Adam or any of the people chatting in this thread. How am i supposed to know that you guys all work and own bike shops? And even so does that mean that everything you say is gospel? Did you even read my initial post? The guy at Orange admitted that most of their frames are fabricated in Taiwan. I was told this by my very good friend who was told this by the guy who visited the factory. His very good friend and an aquaintance of mine.

Now you can imply that im arrogant all day long and use the name Steve implying you know him and where he designs his bikes blah blah blah all day long. I dont really care. I do know what i was told. And thats all i said and then I asked why was it so hard to believe? A lot of people have just come along and said "Youre Wrong!, youre mates a dirty filthy liar!" Who really cares?

For the record the guy wasnt trying to sell me a bike, he visited Orange and asked to see where the frames were fabricated and they dodged the question several times before telling him they were built in taiwan and hence no he didnt mishear them, hes not a cold hearted ruthless salesman and im not a troll.

Plus mentioning the "my mate said so" argument? Eh? So im supposed to believe you lads? After treating me with such contempt for suggesting that a businessman is doing something that only a businessman would do? Try to make money.

Plus who gives a s**t how many bikes youve got? I could own 22 cars and 8 of them are VW Golfs but that doesnt mean i know exactly how theyre made!

FYI producing bikes in Taiwan etc. is not usually cheaper just faster and better quality.
Certainly when Santacruz moved production to Taiwan it was to increase production rate and improve QC as opposed to cheap labour as many think.

I do know what i was told

You are now being told something else. Why is it so hard to let go?

Why would Orange lie? Taiwan built bikes have always been part of the range, back to the very first Clockworks. In the early days the only bike built in the UK was the mega limited Formula. They have never hidden this fact. They sell the FS these days on the back of being UK built, never suggesting anything but so to then do that would surely open themselves up legally?

I've an Orange. It's very nice.

The guy at Orange admitted that most of their frames are fabricated in Taiwan. I was told this by my very good friend who was told this by the guy who visited the factory

Great! I love a good game of Chinese Whispers (or is that racist now?)

Im not wanting this thread to take on the form of an argument and hope it doesnt come across that way. If you look back at the start of the thread someone else also questioned their origins hence why i made my comment. You could look at it from another perspective following JB666s' comments and say that if i am disputing here with all the STWers the origins of Orange frames and that all of these individuals are working in the bike trade (and as such naturally they know far more than i ever could about anything bike related) then maybe these individuals all have a vested interest in keeping Joe Public believing that his frame is fabricated in the UK as well. If Orange admitted to one bike shop owner then whats to say that a few others know?

ScottChegg you have asked pretty much the same question i asked several times in this thread and didnt get an answer to.

If you are told something different from what you were previously told then why is it so hard to let go? Plus why is it so unbelievable?

Again made in Taiwan doesnt mean its poor quality. Quite the opposite when it comes to bike frames i believe. Im out of here anyway. This thread is boring me now.

Fwiw the Clockwork is super nice and i like the colour.

OP sorry your thread turned out like this.

This thread is boring me now.

Ah! The flounce.

I don't have a third hand tale from a guy in a bike shop who's next door neighbour's dog's has a vet who's milkman once heard something from a guy in the pub. I've been to the factory. I've seen them welding Alpines.

And it wasn't in Asia, it was in outer Halifax.

And the Clockwork looks yummy. Orange hardtails always look just right.

Haggis, have you tried calling Orange Bikes direct and asking them yourself. That way you will know first hand the answer.?

And OP, yes that does look a very nice bike. 😀

@haggis,

since you singled me out specifically twice i'll give you a little reply, i was quite polite in my post above, i wasn't rude, i wasn't offensive, i stated some facts and i explained my knowledge and experience as an example of proof that i am not just some internet forum tart.

i didn't imply you were arrogant i asked if you were, there is a difference.

you on the other hand have been quite rude or sarcastic.

i don't have a vested interest in hiding something from customers, i currently don't work in an Orange dealer, although i have just bought a new Orange 5. the reason i told you what i know is that i do know it and i know you are wrong, also frankly your argument is based on nothing other than what you have been told by a mate who obviously doesn't know either.

the thing i also find funny is that in you above post you admit that:-

"naturally they know far more than i ever could about anything bike related"

because "they" are in the bike trade, but when these same people tell you that you are wrong about something you still choose to believe your mate based on hearsay.

like i said before if your mate was having the factory tour at the assembly building they would dodge the build question as the frames are not made at that site, they have a separate location for that a few miles away.

you keep asking everyone why it would be so hard to believe the frames are made in taiwan but why do you find it so hard to believe they are made in Halifax?

regarding the original post though, i think the clockwork is a good bike, being a fan of the original versions though i'd prefer it to be steel just because of the use of the clockwork name, but being aluminium means it's probably a bit lighter, noir much in real terms though. that said i had a good look over them when i got my 5 last week and i think they look good, a little more expensive than an equivalent spec bike from the bigger brands but still a good bike. but i'd pay extra to ride an Orange anyway just because it's a bit more of an individual choice.

It was me that started the made in Taiwan thing as it's fairly common knowledge that the ht's are imported. Personally there is not that much room for brand premium in the 1k hard tail market.

though i'd prefer it to be steel just because of the use of the clockwork name

Orange have banged the steel hardtail drum longer than almost anyone. The R8 and P7 were the last and I don't think either of the last versions sold brilliantly. So, go alloy, drop the price and the lineup makes a bit more sense.

If it's a Clockwork it's more important to be orange than steel anyway!

IMHO

fairpoint about the steel, i have the 2007 clockwork and i still love it, with me it's not so much about the performance benefit of aluminium, more the tradition that it was a steel frame.

would have loved to get the 2008 prestige, i rode one and it was really nice but i couldn't justify having that aswel, also the r8 in 853 was lovely, wasn't overly keen on the paint though but with Orange and their custom option that wouldn't really have been an issue.

I did like the look of the R8; and I was 'this' close to buying one off here in summer. But I'd just bought a 2008 Prestige frame off terrahawk.

My lad has a 15" Prestige, and I'm building up the 17" to keep him company.

Anyone know if Orange will build a hardtail bike to customer spec? I'm guessing they have the frames along with all the individual components. Nothing too fancy, just different to what they spec the complete bike with. I've emailed them to ask but not had any reply. Not had time to get into a dealer to ask yet.

Just finished building up a new Crush Fwiw... [img] [/img]

jaffejoffer - Nice. did you buy frame only? dealer or Orange direct?

haggis - I'm about as sure as sure can be that Orange are still making plenty of their frames in Halifax. Your mate might not be lying but he could just be plain wrong.

jaffejoffer - that looks like fun!

If a frame rides as good as my P7, then I couldn't give a monkeys chuff where the physical act of sticking the tubes together occurred. What matters is what the person designing it was doing, and what the end result is.

That Clockwork looks bloody lovely. As noted already... Orange hardballs just look 'right'. And ride as good as they look.

Frame only through Leisure Lakes. i dealt with Orange direct right up to the point where i said 'ill take it' and they said i had to order through LL?

i upgraded from a raw on-one 45650b - the mrs didnt even notice 8)

Jj- how'd you communicate with Orange? Phone or email (if so which one)? I know exactly what I want, but had no reply to email. I have a localish dealer I can purchase via.

i was using this address sales@orangebikes.co.uk had no problems, very helpful infact.

Hhmmmmm... Orange don't do the Clockwork120S as a frame only or as a [i]bike builds made easy[/i] option 😥

Still like the look of it though, and i reckon it suits my needs. HopeHoops would be nice and some BC rubber.

Hope Haggis1978 is around still...

http://www.mtb-mag.com/en/orange-bikes-factory-visit-in-halifax-england/

Got one:

[img][url= https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7354/16246527928_6b0054c203_o.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7354/16246527928_6b0054c203_o.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/qKDGJu ]2015-02-03_10-43-58[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/66651884@N00/ ]martinddd[/url], on Flickr[/img]

A modern twist (biggish wheels/wide bars/suspension/gears/tubeless/dropper going on soon) to my rigid 2007 Cove HJ SS its supplementing.

Looks ace!