[Closed] Anyone broken a post CEN hardtail?

No they fail

My Kona Big Unit piece of tin foil folded on the down tube just where the butting stopped. Only found it whilst cleaning the bike.

Kona failed to honour the warranty, refused to inspect the frame.

So Kona frames fail post CEN

I've only broken two so far.

messiah - I've only broken two so far.

How many did you break pre CEN?

How many did you break pre CEN?

Quite a few over the years 😳

Has the test actually made bikes stronger in the real world or is this just a consequence of manufacturers making frames more suited to harder use?

Both, but I expect a fair number of pre-CEN bikes passed in retro-testing. New tests show up different failures and promote new tube profiles, designs etc. CEN loads don't account for XC to DH use variation, so manufacturers may still need to use some judgement beyond CEN test variables.

Is it just a load of guff designed to keep bureacrats happy?

There may be an element of guff in it but consistency is a fair aim. Does CEN give us that?

Has it killed of the 'light and zingy' steel hardtail?

Shouldn't do. Newer / strong tubes can make a light CEN steel HT. Just won't be as cheap as it could have been a while back, or a 3.75lb zingy-noodle.

It's possible to break any frame with enough effort. We've had fewer failures since CEN because the frames are stronger, but it's a matter of degrees really. It's gone from a small handful over a couple of thousand frames to single digits over a further couple of thousand. To be fair, most of the failures we have seen are proper coming-down-from-orbit (BFe) or crashed-into-a-tree/car/lamp post (Soul, RoadRat, X) so big impacts.

It's entirely possible to still have a zingy hardtail. The CEN Soul is only 40grames heavier than the pre-CEN. There are some subtleties in the design and positioning of the tubes which mean you don't have to add loads of metal necessarily.

As for CEN itself, the aim is a good one, to add consistency of safety as James says. However, the standard itself isn't very well written so it's no guarantee of quality IMO.

The top tube/seat tube junction on the Ramones broke last October despite it having a CEN sticker on the seat tube 🙂

If you have a look through the CEN tests they are mostly related to catastrophic failures as a result of shock loading it's no guarantee that every weld and every tube is indestructible.

coming-down-from-orbit (BFe)

[b]*cough*[/b]

[img] [/img]

Has it killed of the 'light and zingy' steel hardtail?

IMO it was rather a light bike all things considered and didn't kick my ass half as bad as the uber-rigid Kona Stuff I used to have.

Rusty Spanner - Member

Has it killed of the 'light and zingy' steel hardtail?

Nope, obviously not- but some companies have struggled with it, throwing gussets and extra ironmongery at things. Just because Cy can do it doesn't mean anyone else can 😉

TBF, most steel hardtails weren't light or zingy before CEN, most of them are big dead lumps of scaffolding- doesn't stop the owners from believing that steel is real man.

All the CEN standards provide is a suite of standardized tests to look at operability, safety and structural performance under operational loadings.

These in themselves won't prevent anything from failing, the test criteria can always be exceeded by an "enthusiastic user".
The tests are at least based on a realistic estimation of in service loading, and give a reasonable indication of a frames structural performance.

The Standard is [I]"(BS)EN 14766: Mountain-bicycles - Safety requirements and test methods"[/I] Which if you read it is actually pretty thorough.
It gives acceptance criteria and approved test methods; which an engineer could work back to a set of stress allowables for a hand-calc/FEA when designing, so in theory your frame should have passed it's test on paper, long before it was prototyped and stuck on a test rig.

In much the same way that your bike Helmet is not a shield of invulnerability, a CEN test certificate does not exclude all possiblity of failure, it just indicates all reasonably practicable steps have been taken to design a frame that will put up with "Normal Use" in line with an accepted standard.

Round of applause there Rob. I think only one other BFe of that generation failed that I know of. What the hell did you hit?

What the hell did you hit?

One of the following

tree/car/lamp post

Was a tree that jumped out at me just after I landed a wee drop a bit squiffy. If you'd like to give me another I'll see if I can re-create it for you in real time 🙂

Sadly it also killed the forks, but the front wheel is still in use...