[Closed] Anyone be bothered to do this again? Daily Mail 'war on cyclists'...

And....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8319630.stm

in think a lot of the comments are pretty fair.
and i agree that if you ride on the pavement and get caught you should be fined on the spot, or your bike confiscated untill you pay the fine.

I am afraid its not the Daily mail this time but parliament [url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8319630.stm ]bbc[/url]

Many of the pavements in Lund where I live are shared and the junctions are raised so that you have the same right of way as the main road. The problem with the government in the UK is that they really don't want to do anything radical that will rock the boat.

and i agree that if you ride on the pavement and get caught you should be fined on the spot, or your bike confiscated untill you pay the fine.

Even when there are cycle lanes painted on the pavement?

At least it might be an idea to muck up the Daily Heil's voting system ....

Even when there are cycle lanes painted on the pavement?

pavement and designated cycling pavemant is a differant thing.
cycling designated pavement end with markings.
you know that surely.

[i]Anti-social cyclists are a potentially fatal hazard to themselves, other road users and pedestrians, say MPs. [/i]

Whereas cars are an *actual* fatal hazard to themselves, other road users and pedestrians.

These people really need to get some perspective. Over 3000 people are killed by cars every year in the UK, around 40 of those people were just walking down the pavement when a car drove onto it. "Cyclists ignore traffic lights", yeah yeah. So do the half a million drivers in London alone who get fixed penalty traffic light tickets every couple of years. I agree though, people riding on the pavement should be fined, they're breaking the law.

Waste of time arguing though, stupid is as stupid does.

pavement and designated cycling pavemant is a differant thing.
cycling designated pavement end with markings.
you know that surely.

I escort my 8 year old to school on our bikes. It's 95% cycle path but there's one short stretch of busy road where we ride on the pavement rather than send him out in the rush hour traffic. If you're polite and considerate then usually no-one grumbles.

A few years ago, on our way to his previous school some old bloke with a walking stick had a go at me for riding with my son (then 5) through a park. Less than a minute later a little old lady on a step through shopper rode past him. He didn't bat an eyelid. How tempted was I?

trouble is, everyone on either side of this argument sounds like a tosser because the answer is that, in general, every group should GrowTFU, stop whining and MOST IMPORTANTLY behave a bit more considerately toward the others

since that's not going to happen, I'm looking forward to many years of reppeating all these arguments

(else we change the law, spot-fine all jaywalkers, pavement riders, RLJ's regardless of on car/bike/foot and let the govt run our lives even more)

scaredypants - I think the problem is our government does not run our lives enough. The point of a government is to make hard decisions that we could not make in a general Big Brother type vote. The Tories don't seem to mind making decisions that piss the other half off though.

I would like a government that makes some hard decisions and take some radical policies instead of my life to a large extent being controlled by big business.

the law is do not cycle on pedestrian footpaths.
end of. ffs

blimey GEDA, you've widened the debate a bit there - or is big business controlling your commute ?

I do agree though, gov should grow some balls and make important decisions (though I'd add "and stop fannying about with minutiae like this")

scaredypants - agreed
GEDA - rubbish, there's no reason for the government to do more ruling, there are sensible rules there already, we just need people to enforce them isntead of making new ones.

The Tories don't seem to mind making decisions that piss the other half off though.

examples please of [u]actual[/u] decisions i'm puzzled

Poor cycling behaviour is potentially inconsiderate. Poor driving behaviour is potentially lethal.

In Sweden the government controls my commute by providing 100's of miles of lovely cycle friendly pavements and cycle ways.

I think the government should really be saying how can we convert 1000's of miles of under used pavements to dual use so that we get people ou of cars and on to walking/ talking the bus.

[img] [/img]

Is that the cafe stop on a Bogtrotters ride?

We should all log onto that Daily Mail forum and rip them to shreds in true STW stylee. Gotta stand up for ourselves. I've started, who's next? Where's TJ & SFB, they'd be perfik for this. 🙂

Tories - Privatisation, council house sell off, deregulation of rental market. I have no comment if those were good or bad things but still pretty radical, disadvantaged a whole lot of society and changed our society radically.

[img] [/img]

How radical is this? Sharing a pavement with bikes. There must be so many pavements like this in the UK and it should be a duty of the council to convert as many as possible to dual use

[i]a cyclist going like a bat out of hell outside the Commons, [b]dressed like Darth Vader, as they all do.[/b] [/i]

I am really, really puzzled by this allegation. Fat chef James Martin accused cyclists of being dressed as Spiderman, which was peculiar but possible to get your head around. Now we have a member of parliament (no less) claiming we [u]all[/u] dress like Lord Vader. I really, really cannot adjust my head to agree with this. 😀

The Tories don't seem to mind making decisions that piss the other half off though.

examples please of actual decisions i'm puzzled

Tories - Privatisation, council house sell off, deregulation of rental market.

not sure if those were tough decisions or just following what at the time was a populist dogma

There must be so many pavements like this in the UK and it should be a duty of the council to convert as many as possible to dual use

which would work if peds knew that they were shared use. i use one bit of shared use/cycle path on my way to work and it is a dangerous (for the peds) nightmare. they have ABSOLUTELY NO AWARENESS. i would like to travel faster than 4mph on my bike but i cant cause if i do people will go down.

list of things:
people backing away from each other to take photos into my path
people seemingly choosing to walk down the cycle bit rather than the ped bit
people walking three abreast so you have to slow right down get their attention, get them to move out the way
people at bus stops putting their shopping in the cycle bit
the list could go on for ever and ever

but heres the rub
one day i shouted at a guy for cycling on the pavement, turns out it was shared use and i didnt realise. how much of a dick did i feel. shared use are useless.

Since that darth vader quote came from someone in London, where a great many people can be seen on bikes either in business suits or in their sisters jeans, I'm also extremely confused.

as above realy sort out decent cycle lanes and all road users being a bit more considerate to each other is the answer. London does seem to have more than it's share of bad press about cyclists. Are there really than many bad cyclists?
Round here the only people I see on pavements are people on Halfords type bikesus usually cycling fairly slowly.

. Mr Curry [TORY MP]then related his experience of walking along a country road with his grandchildren.'You get from behind you a voice yelling "Clear the road!". There is a battalion of cyclists, coming at you like bats out of hell, expecting you to get out of the way as if they own the road.'

SO he was walking on a road not facing on cominfg traffic (as per Highway code) and some one allerted them to their presence and suggested he move so as not to be run over.
I agree ****ing cyclists BURN THEM

Face masks, I think. Someone with a poor memory of films:
[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]

I'd agree with bombadillo, the law is clear about what is allowed and what isn't. Cyclists who don't obey the law risk penalties and apparently manage to tar all cyclists with the same brush.

PeterPoddy - Member

We should all log onto that Daily Mail forum and rip them to shreds in true STW stylee. Gotta stand up for ourselves. I've started, who's next? Where's TJ & SFB, they'd be perfik for this.

One comment made just to keep you happy 🙂

I feel dirty now but may well go back later for another bite.

I think its cyclelanes that are creating this problem.
Beginner cyclists are encouraged onto bikes reassured there is a joined up network of car-free routes, and then discover that the lane ends-dumping them at the worst part of a busy junction, or changing to a pathetic dual pavement. They therefore continue to use pavements for all their journeys, never graduating to using the road.
Meanwhile motorists get used to having the road to themselves, and take exception, sometimes violently, to those who legally use the road.

Correct me if I am wrong(Am sure you all will) but it it not illegal to use any wheeler vehicle on a foot path?

This was I belive the bylaw that was used to ban skateboards in many citys.

I say we all get on the Daily mail site and campaign to ban push chairs under the same by law.

If anyone can think of a more stupid yet plausible campaign waste there time with that instead.

Yes there are some idiots on bikes out there and in cars and on foot..

Lets ban walking, maybe if we could tax it?

Nice one TJ, I thought of you because you're so good at making a reasoned argument. 🙂

A rhetorical question BTW, why do so many cyclists wear hi-viz and a potty hat to cycle on the pavement? Are they trying to draw even more attention to what they are doing?

Yeah right PP! You mean I am an argumentative sod 🙂

Yeah, that too. But you've been at it so long, you've pretty much perfected the noble are of being right all the time.... 😉 MrsPP is also good at that. 😉

think I found your post TJ was it this one? Actually the post above yours ...your internet reputation precedes you?

IW agree that cycle helmets should be made law, after my son having an accident which was scary for us and for him.......This was on a private road over the back to where we live,bearing in mind there are no cycle paths in this area and I wouldnt dream of letting him ride on the road.The roads these days are far too busy for adults let alone children.At least if cycle helmets were made law then there would be far less accidents on our roads and pathways.

[i] Junkyard - Member

think I found your post TJ wa sit this one?[/i]

Wasn't it the one with username 'tandemjeremy'?

LOL! 😀

The “Lycra Lout” label is a misnomer really, most Lycra Clad cyclists in towns/cities in my experience are on the Road… the Anti social Cyclists bumbling about on busy pavements riding into people are not really serious cyclists (I’m making sweeping generalisations here I know)…

As a Reading Resident I can almost guarantee if I were to take a trip down to the Oxford road any day of the week and hang about for a couple of hours I would almost definitely see someone riding a knackered old Raleigh Lizard with at least one if not both brakes disconnected to accommodate the buckled wheels, riding along the pavement, can of red stripe in one hand, plastic bag hanging off the other end of the bars, they will probably be passed by at least 2 police cars neither of which will stop to challenge what is basically a drunk on an unserviceable vehicle without brakes riding on a pavement, I’m sure Reading isn’t the only town in the UK where you could find this kind of scene.
These are the “cyclists” that cause a danger and should be challenged and prosecuted, but don’t tar me with the same brush just because I own a bicycle….

accept you are a second class citizen.

ride on the road if you want to try to keep up with traffic
ride on the pavement if you can handle riding at walking pace

I'm quite proud of the fact that one of my responses has had so many bad ratings from Daily Nazi readers. Ace.

Dare I say it again…..

Clarksonisation… (Cowers)

How come riding a bike makes you a cyclist? This is a skill (balancing) most people learn when they are pre-school, and most people abandon when they earn enough to use a car.

The typical really bad cyclist is a very occasional cyclist with no awareness of their responsibilities to themselves or others.

al.

[i]its not safe to walk on most streets these days what with beggars with dogs on bits of string, knife wielding thugs and winos
[/i]

ace 🙂

I'm quite proud of the fact that one of my responses has had so many bad ratings from Daily Nazi readers. Ace.

I must be doing something wrong. Mine is way into the green! (16 so far)
😉

One of mine ha 12 positves 🙂

I put it to you that those are from cyclists 😉

You think? I'd like to think my reasoned arguments have changed the minds of the Daily Wail readers.

Yours
Deluded of Edinburgh

Bombadilo and Atlaz come to Leeds and lets go for a ride...it's nigh on impossible to work out what pavements you are or aren't allowed to ride on. The council's half arsed attempts at cycling provision are so bad that if you followed the rule that it must be marked as such to be dual use you end up stranded in the middle of the road with nowhere to go.

In theory I would be fined (if caught) every single day even though I ride on the road 98%+ of the time because it just isn't clear where you are allowed to ride. You can't start penalising people if it unclear whether they are actually breaking the law.

Just spent ages composing a comment & then found you had to register....

bum, not sure I can be bothered.

ctznsmith

i commute into leeds daily on my bike.

I went as far as registering and then their crappy site fell over... now I'm going to get hate-emails and I still haven't had my say...

i'd react but i just can't take the mail seriously. it's a joke of a paper read by a lot of closed-minded people who aren't worth debating with.

ended up registering - K Allen from Peterboghorror

@bombadillo you do? Awesome maybe we should go for a ride.

Okay exhibit A then, the big roundabout under the A58M with the cycle lane/pavement bit through the centre...if you follow it and cross at the dual crossings, when you get to the Premier Inn/TGI Friday's where the hell are you supposed to go next?!?
(I actually ignore all the cycling facilities on that roundabout anyway because it takes about 3 times as long to get anywhere)

Exhibit B, the cycle path in city square, if you turn on it from the loop road (fun in itself) do you have to stay between the lines, even though the turn is impossible if you doing over 0 mph, which you really don't want to be doing as you've just come off the 3 laned main loop road. So you hit it too fast and stray off line...instant fine?

trouble is, everyone on either side of this argument sounds like a tosser because the answer is that, in general, every group should GrowTFU, stop whining and MOST IMPORTANTLY behave a bit more considerately toward the others

I think this is right. Is it just that the British are an inconsiderate lot compared to, say, Nordic countries?

Reminds me of Bill Hicks on the pedestrian right of way law in California: "only in the USA would you have to legislate common courtesy". And perhaps the UK?

ctznsmith
i ride on the road.

Perhaps a straw poll is required….

I’d consider STW a suitable place it has a mixture of what I would consider “true cyclists” (actual cycling enthusiasts, rather than Drunks with driving bans)…

How many of you cycle in towns and cities do so predominately on the road and properly marked cycle lanes and how many use the pavement more often than not?

I’ll start, I use the roads, and some cycle lanes, but I will own up to having used the pavement on occasion, where I considered it safer, for both myself and others, to do so…

I ride lots in towns and cities. Predominantly on the road, never on cycle lanes, never on pavements. Sometimes on canal towpaths though.

i ride anywhere i feel safe, and if i get cught and fined riding where i should no, so be it.

"Reminds me of Bill Hicks on the pedestrian right of way law in California: "only in the USA would you have to legislate common courtesy". And perhaps the UK? "

too true.. the way so many use 'rights of way' as an excuse for ignoring the need for a bit of courtesy and the british attitude toward road use and protecting space, queuing etc do puzzle me. especially after seeing the chaos that is traffic in nepal or india - but there's no stress, everyone gets on fine with a smile. why can't we? i'd suggest a few answers but that's a whole different debate.

Well, I've just commented again. Knew I should have stayed away!!

Oh, and I don't really ride in towns & cities being right near the countryside & that....but when I do it will be on the road, not on the pavement & generally not on cycle lanes as the majority of them are more trouble than they are worth.

Occasional red light jumper here. slowly carefully when I can see all the traffic and when its the safest way for me to proceed.

Never cycle on pavements - if I go on pavements I push the bike. I regularly block and tell off pavement cyclists ( narrow busy pavements near my house)

assertive rider to the point of being aggressive

wow, my comment is 8 in the green, I can only assume the mail readers have misinterpreted my sarcasm.

@cookeaa

Roads most of the time
Cycle lanes occasionally
Pavements very occasionally where there is no other safe way to navigate to the destination.

I never jump red lights, although I must confess to being an 'amber gambler' on occasion which is probably worse.

I used the pavement for about 400 yards this morning, to avoid going the wrong way up a one way street 😈 I did it slowly and safely though, unlike the **** I saw switching directly from road to pavement at 15mph becaue the road ahead was blocked. Predictably, he collected someone walking out of a blind entrance 🙄

@bonbadillo

Problem is, it'd be nice if the world were black and white like that. But just becase a law exists doesn't mean it's the right law, it was just made at a time when it was appropriate.

I've been out for a ride with some of the older (retired) neigbours in our Close and was a bit surprised to see half/most of 'em get onto the pavement along a section I cycle most days approaching some lights.
Why ? - cos a few of them (ok, their OHs) are quite timid in traffic and feel intimidated by it. The answer of 'MTFU/WTFU' ain't gonna happen at their age. While I'm not in favour of people riding on the footpath by default, if they're that scared of the traffic and not riding like tits, let 'em get on with it. If there was less traffic around (as there probably was when they learnt to ride) they'd stay on the road - which was where they were in the quieter backroads.

Oh, and fwiw, in that section I mentioned a postie was knocked off his bike last year by a truck and lost his lower leg !