[Closed] Any 4th cat roadies on here - is it fun?

Very hard and very chaotic.

Having said that I have only done 1 crit and 1 road race as a cat 4. The crit was just an hour of dodging bad lines in the pack and massive sprints to each corner. I think the average speed was 24mph

The road race was much better, lines held much better, speed steadier and much more enjoyable.

I'm not but I'd guess picking off the scabs is fun 😉

I'd join a club and do some group rides first, else you may end up causing a massive crash (unless you've already been dropped like a stone !)

Ha ha! DJ certainly makes it sound like crashes are almost guaranteed.

Did my first 2 in August this year at MK Bowl.

1st was ok, no major issues with quality of riding and was hard work.

2nd one had a couple of riders who were riding dangerously and I’m surprised there wasn’t a crash.

Definitely do some group rides first, preferably with other races who can show you what to do and give you some tips. Theres a few tactics involved, its not necessarily the fittest rider that wins.

Almost all of the race occurs in the last 3 laps, before that you just need to make sure you are conserving your energy. Go at the front and you're doing all the work but too far at the back and the "elastic" stretching effect of the group as they brake and accelerate out of turns will mean you're spending too much effort accelerating to keep up. Having said that, i often find if its a tight course you can carry a heck of a lot more speed through the turns if you are riding alone due to being dropped, so it can be easy-ish to get back in the group.

The ones i've done have been pretty good, though you occasionally get some looney that will come down the inside on a hairpin nearly T-boning everyone else.

I might do some around London next year too.

you need to be selective about what you race IMO. up here (Newcastle) there is one weekly crit you'd be mad to attend, because of the riders quality, and one that is good.

Be prepared to crash, at speed, and be prepared to be spat out the back, and you'll be fine 🙂

Looking at doing this at the Cyclopark next year, went to watch a few and it was pretty close racing from what I could see so should be fun. Nice wide circuit too so plenty of room for the bunch. Bit nervous as generally only hear about huge bunch crashes which I could do without, mainly from the replacing expensive kit angle, bones heal and chicks dig scars etc etc

Don't let all the talk of crashing put you off. I found it possible to ride several season of crits and never fall off. You need to ride smoothly, be aware of all the riders around you, avoid the dangerous ones, and occasionally be prepared to back off (even if that does mean forgoing 26th place in the bunch sprint).

And in answer to the thread question - yes it is fun.

The first crit I did ( a town centre jobby), I thought I was fit. I was good at time trialling so had basic speed, stamina etc. I had spent months doing weekly circuit race training with the local road club. So I was ready!

We started and rolled out around the circuit, at the start finish, the flag went down and that was it. Race over. I was out the back and despite trying my hardest to get in sight of the bunch, I never saw them again.

Huge crowd watching so I was a bit embarrassed, having said that I got a huge cheer as I rolled in to the end.

What's the age range of people taking part? Assuming you're fast enough is there an upper age limit?

On a bad day it can be very bad, like a bunch sprinting on the bell because they thought that was the end of the race. Riders packing in, just like that, full on brakes mid pack. Riders fiddling with computers. Riders going on and off circuit. Basically quite a few that just want to be 3rd cats then never race again.
Other 4th cat races are full on road races, 60/70/80 milers tagged onto major 1/2/3 races.
I know a few guys that have never gone pot hunting in only 40 minute crits and spend years sitting at the back chasing 1st's.

That said handle yourself well and you'll love it and everyone will love you. Cocks have a short lifespan in road racing.

EDIT; Oops forgive the rant

What was it that guy said?

"It never gets funner, you just go faster."

Be prepared for it to be a steep learning curve - chances are you'll get dropped in your first race but stick with it, watch what others are doing and you'll very quickly learn the ropes.

Give it a go, it's great fun and (contrary to what some people have said), it's not a total crashfest - no-one wants to crash, it's very painful and expensive. And if at any time you do feel in danger, ease off the gas, drift to the back of the bunch and take a breather - wait for the bunch to come round again and join back in. Or do the race then don't contest the final sprint (which is usually the most chaotic bit).

Some good advice and information over on the [url= http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/road/article/20131213-Get-into-road-racing-0 ]British Cycling website[/url] and the [url=h https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/events ]Events Calendar[/url] too where you can find all the local races. Hillingdon is probably the best bet at this time of year.

And if you get more into it, here's some information about British Cycling memberships and Racing Licences:
http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/membership

If its a flat course, I wouldn't assume you'd get dropped. I did my first race this year as a 4th cat on a flat, closed circuit, and no-one got dropped even with an average 25mph speed.

You'll realise why over/under workouts are popular as training, as unless you sit at the back, you'll work hard to move to the front, then peel off and roll to the back.

I enjoyed the race. I didn't want to sit at the back in case there was a crash or break, so worked too hard near the front and had nothing left for the sprint.

There was one bad crash, but most of the riding was good (closer than a club run)

My thoughts;
don't sit near the back
don't sit near the back
don't sit near the back (especially if there are lots of corners).

I found that you need to read the race, rather than be really really fit. Watch riders, don't half wheel, stay off your brakes and make sure you get used to doing turns. If you sit in all the time you'll never be fit enough to do repeated accelerations to close gaps/ chase riders etc.

I knew riders who were much faster than me in time trials, but couldn't adjust to constant changes in pace so got shelled out quickly. Go for some fast specific training rides. I found 90 minute rides with 10 or 20 sprints, or repeated short sharp hillclimbs to be really useful.

ps crits are quite hard. I got more enjoyment out of road races on the open road.

pps good luck

Basically the attitude you should expect to receive at your first event from riders and organiser's alike will be:
Attend Go ride events please if your clueless or even club runs. Don't come to a race and risk killing everyone if you can't hold a wheel or don't feel happy in a group, keep hold of your bars throughout and if your a triathlete please use the exit now we don't have time for you ............
This is kind of down to safety but its also down to certain cyclists/marshals etc thinking they are well above there station and abilities, so calling the shots.... Its 4th cat not the bloody tour, give people a break and a chance please.
I road raced last year and won (not that it matters) the main thing is don't get psyched out by it. It isn't that hard if you go about it sensibly, sit in the first 10, do your turns and sprint at the right moment, then you should do ok! Just remember to keep both hands on the bars, even if you win 😉

All I will say, go out with a local club and get used to riding with other riders, you need to be comfortable around other riders and in close proximity.

Would recommend joining a club that has members who race in it. Not only will you get the opportunity to guage your fitness against them but you'll be able to ask for advice and also be told if you are doing something daft/stupid.

I like crits, unfortunately there are very few in the region im in (west of Scotland) so have to do road races which i find much much harder because there are usually hills involved somewhere. I've only made it to the end in the lead group in 1 road race in 2 years and regularly get dropped on the summer chaingang when it reaches the only hill on the loop 😳

All good advice. Thank you.

What about the ages of folks? I'm worried about being too old...

18-65 so if you are too old, good on ya!

At the bowl it ranges from 16 to 45 ish

Racing is the most fun you can have on your bike, aside from chaingangs. 8) My highlight of the year was standing on the start line next to Lizzie Armistead and the Wiggle Honda team 😀

As others have said, learn how to chaingang and get used to riding close to others, avoid bad wheels, stay off the brakes, don't half wheel, don't touch your garmin or get distracted, hold your line in corners and don't move suddenly without communicating, gels are your best friend in a race, use your drops if you can - less chance of bars getting locked if contact happens, and stay near the front if possible.

Your first one will be a shock to the system i'd imagine, especially if you pick the first race of the season to start - they are generally a little more nervous and twitchy than later in the season. The pace will vary depending on course and weather. Depending on the lead car driver(s) you may have a nicely paced neutralised start, or an eye balls out start, and even more eye balls out effort once the flag goes down. I've lost count of the crashes i've seen in the neutralised start. Oh, and warm up well too, turbo or rollers are better than riding on the road.

Crits are totally different to road racing, sprint, corner, sprint, corner and repeat for 40+mins!

If you are a vet, you can race the vet categories which (ime as they put women in with vets for some races, and i think the men's vet categories start with 40+ and then 50-70+) is far safer than 4th cat RRs and a totally different race experience. I've raced with the 40+ and 50-70+ there's a little difference in speed (but that might just be weather/course profile) and there's some blooming fit old guys!

This is great stuff. Will look into vets as I just about qualify.

But I'm now properly motivated to have a good winter of club runs and to see about some summer races.

How to go from unfit, overweight office dweller to racing snake in six months?!

The weight won't be a big issue in a lot of the crit races as they are pretty flat.
If you are unfit it will be a challenge. Build up gradually but be prepared to commit say 8 hours/week.When you have built up some endurance you will need some high intensity sessions. Join a club as soon as you can and good luck

How to go from unfit, overweight office dweller to racing snake in six months?!

Get a turbo trainer, sign up to TrainerRoad, then follow one of their plans (or TrainingPeaks plans, or coaching, etc.) That and some long club runs should sort you out.

Looking forward to joining the vets next year 🙂

I did 3 races as a 4th cat.

First two I played the game but to be perfectly honest hated every minute. Near crash experiences every few minutes with riders making silly moves and panic braking. 3rd race I thought sod it and rode off the front after a few minutes and stayed there effectively TTing until the end.

I then learnt the sport by picking out 2nd/3rd cat races, which were at least a bit tactical and more sensibly paced without the feeling that the next crash was just around the corner, until I had enough points to race E/1/2 which was actually fun. It took a few months but was definitely worth it.

Enjoy.

I wrote this for new racers in our club. I post a race blog as well and have ridden Cat 4 and E1234 all year, including some road races.

http://www.twickenhamcc.co.uk/tcc/are-you-race-curious/

It is a lot of fun, curiously addictive and a lot more competitive than you might think. Not always the crashfest you may have been led to believe. SIXTY riders per race in the Imperial Winter Series at Hillingdon at the moment and sold out several weeks in advance. You'll soon learn how to handle a bike properly. Join a club and get some group riding experience first would be my advice. It is not sportive riding and it is also a fitness step up. If you are over 40, masters racing is a step up again (fast old men). I've joined LVRC this year so might race against oldgit later in the season.

It's golf with worse clothes and better toys. 🙂

EDIT: Not to put all you potential vets off, but my last E1234 masters race had an average speed of 27.2 mph.

Crikey. Just bought my race licence and currently in Training for the Hog Hill winter series in Jan. this thread doesn't inspire confidence!

*goes off to read Graham Obree's mental tactics again*

I've joined LVRC this year so might race against oldgit later in the season.

I shall keep a look out, though I'll be in the last year of 50-55 year olds. Tempted to get a BC licence as well as my peers have been ripping up the 4th cat races this year.
Though I won't be racing until May'ish

I have my finger hovering over the entry button for a 4 race January winter series, will be my first racing since BMX!

Get 4th cat and I'll come up for a few MK Bowl races. Also Corley cycles have a fine development road race in the Spring over in Cranfield. I'm still a youthful 46.

Kryton - Hog Hill can be a beast. Vets don't have to go up the hill. 4ths do. Hillingdon is a smoother circuit but as I said, the racing is very competitive. Five crashes in two races for Cat3, none for Cat4 so far 😉

Plenty of interval sessions on the turbo/rollers, crits are short abit like cross races, flat out for the hour. Had a few near misses but it soon becomes obvious who's wheel to avoid.

Get 4th cat and I'll come up for a few MK Bowl races. Also Corley cycles have a fine development road race in the Spring over in Cranfield. I'm still a youthful 46.

The little triangle circuit? LVRC do that a few times as well.
Was that a gauntlet you threw down there 🙂 or an offer of a bit of team work.
This year they've been running 40 minute 4th only so people can get their 3rds. Not sure I like the ethics of that, basically if you turn up enough you'll be a 3rd. That said they'll be ideal training sessions.

Just realized you posted about the London Club scene earlier. Not sure how close you are to the Crest, but they'd be a great club to join if you want to 'suck it and see'. If it turns out to be not what you expected then you'd still have a rounded club to ride with. Also it's been hinted at that it isn't very tactical, but having team mates is a real help.
My lot of 4ths on their first day out taking 1,2 and 3
[img] [/img]

I quite fancy a crack at this but the last time I looked on the British Cycling website, there didn't seem to be much happening in the North West over winter so far as crits or road races. Have I missed something or does it all pick up around Spring time?

Not sure if it's me being old fashioned, but it kicks off big time in Spring.
Some of my guys thought they were the ***ocks over winter, then spring came and then in the words of Harry Enfield 'Big boys came'

Our Cat 4 races do have tactics and the mighty TCC managed a win in a breakaway last week (not me!). A large team of London Dynamos held up the pack as they had a man in the break as well. I'm not points chasing, as staying down helps develop new riders, which is just as well, because Hillingdon is very competitive. I do share your sentiment about serving an apprenticeship. Better to become competitive in Cat4 than struggle in Cat3. They aren't all wobbling crashfests. We have some experienced racers in London and circuit racing is getting very popular. You do get to size up which wheels to follow and which to avoid pretty fast, though!

I got dropped after a very hard lap on the front at the Bowl in my only race there in February. I'm faster now 😈 .

If you haven't tried racing. A Go Race event is a good start. Most of he circuits will also offer a training session of a few hours to get you started. If you ride in a club they will often have a Club Championship race, which again is not too pressurized and a chance to "have a go". Most of the championships tend to be in the autumn, however. I missed ours last year and decided I'd have a go anyway so signed on for the Imperial Winter Series 2012-13. Never looked back - except to maneuver, of course.

But masters racing is fast (just as in mtb-xc). The TCC series at Hillingdon is excellent and improved my bike skills and fitness immensely this Summer.

Reading with interest, plan on doing a few road races next year. Riding with a few racers at mo and just hoping I can keep up when they start turning it on. They started laying down the law the other day, swapping turns at much bigger power than I could handle after 70 miles, actually I couldn't have put much of a turn on the front when fresh, I was redlining sitting on their wheel.

monkeyfudger I'd get a second opinion about going hard/race ready this early. I can only talk from my experience, and that is that all the guys that were wired early this year went onto burn out. Some took a mid season break and came back to do well.

[url= http://www.twinklydave.com/?p=1044 ]Loved my first road race[/url]. Fully intended to do some more this year, but crashed and spent it sat around not able to ride instead 🙁
Next year though...

Enjoyed racing out on the roads more than doing crits, less aggro/ego but still just as competitive, plus the courses tend to be a bit more interesting 🙂

TiRed - Member

Kryton - Hog Hill can be a beast. Vets don't have to go up the hill. 4ths do. Hillingdon is a smoother circuit but as I said, the racing is very competitive. Five crashes in two races for Cat3, none for Cat4 so far

Suddenly I feel great about being 41.... But as they say, it's better to have raced and lost than never to have raced at all....

Oldgit, it was just the last 20 mins of the ride, it's normally a pretty manageable pace for the rides we do, reckon they just fancied seeing if they could drop me haha. It's difficult ain't it, reckon I need moar power but I'm trying to keep the training load pretty light. We'll see, I'll be hoping just to finish, also hoping to race some XC and ENDURO too where I know what to expect/train for.

"Go Race" events are for under 16s.

I've raced in the che Castle combe series which is hard work, lots of fast, talented, experienced riders seem to enter, some easily good enough for a higher standard but who just stick in the 4s. Average speed was about 40 km/h for an hour with a brutal headwind for 1/3 of a lap. The biggest shock I had was how quick the race was from the off, no messing about, gun goes bang, clip in and then straight out at 40 km/h down the straight so you need a good warm up first, casually lapping the car park for ten minutes wont help. You really need a turbo trainer or rollers.

Havent seen a crash yet, though no one will thank you for weaving around. 99% of accidents are through corners where the inexperienced can not hold their line and drift to the outside. Again this is something that rollers will help you with as they encourage good pedaling stroke and concentration. You dont need a super bike, quite a few were on good alu frames, you dont need deep carbon wheels either. You can hang around at the back if you are nervous but be prepared to be caught out on the sudden bursts of pace as you will need to work hard to keep up.

A few sessions at a velodrome will also help your cornering and how to hold your line!! Go for it, its great fun and a really good beasting!!

"Go Race" events are for under 16s.

No, Go-[b]Ride [/b]Races are for U16s.

[b]Go Race[/b] races are most definitely for novices. There was a ladies Go Race at Hillingdon on Saturday. Otherwise I agree with everything you said. Right down to staying in Cat4.

If I took out a BC bronze membership with provisional license (no points) to try out, assume I can upgrade to silver and a full license if I decide to do a few more?

If I took out a BC bronze membership with provisional license (no points) to try out, assume I can upgrade to silver and a full license if I decide to do a few more?

For some races you need at least a silver membership to be able to race. Probably the sensible option as you get some liability insurance for racing that the bronze doesnt have.

OK, so silver membership with provisional licence then upgrade to full if I like it?

Yeah that should be fine was what i did last year

Cheers Omar...

Sounds like most of the STW TrainerRoad team are going to be road racing next year 🙂

OK, so silver membership with provisional licence then upgrade to full if I like it?

That's the best way in yes.
Be aware that with a Provisional Licence, you have to pay a bit extra at sign on for a Day Licence.

Details [url= http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/road/article/roa20120127-road-Single-Day-Racing-Licences-%E2%80%93-Road---Track-0 ]here[/url]

It's cos a Provisional Licence doesn't have the required insurance level. However a couple of £5 Day Licence fees is better than buying a full licence for £34 and then deciding that you don't like racing after one ride!

[url= http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/membership/article/mem-st-Racing-Licence-Prices-0-Need-a-Racing-Licence--0 ]Licence Info[/url]

Sounds like most of the STW TrainerRoad team are going to be road racing next year

Haha wonder if we'll bump into one another? Without the actual bumping hopefully....

Anyone fancy knocking up some Team STW/TR jerseys?!

Ah thanks, I didn't know about the Go [b] Race[/b] events.

Are you guys sure about the licence issue, Cross events are fine with bronze and a provisional licence, no further fees payable.

benji not raced BC since it was BCF, but I think it's to do with closed circuits.

Anyone fancy knocking up some Team STW/TR jerseys?!

Sadly, you're not allowed (boo!)

If you race for a club you have to wear their kit, if you're independent you have to wear as plain a kit as possible.

I started racing 4th cat crits earlier in the year, but progressed pretty quickly and ended up racing against some of the top domestic pros. I absolutely love it and have found it really addictive.

As long as you're moderately fit you'll be able to hang in the pack, but although it's fun zipping along with a fast-moving pack, the real entertainment comes when you can start mixing it up; whether that be launching attacks or sprinting for the win.

So, the more you put in over the winter, the more you'll get out.

If you've never done any group riding, try and do that first, but some places (eg, Cyclopark) run race training sessions which give a good introduction. However, generally the best way to train for racing is racing itself. If you cock up, your peers will soon let you know (in the politest possible terms!), so it can be a pretty steep learning curve.

As for number of races, everything really ramps up through Spring in to Summer. Round London, there are a couple of series that run mid-week and there's often the possibility of racing both Saturday and Sunday. Not much happens during the Winter due to the likelihood of poor conditions and the fact that BC only rank crits as a maximum of band 5 between November and end-February, so even winning an elite race only gains you 10 points (once you turn roadie, everything becomes about collecting points)

I know its a 'how long is a piece of string' question, but what kind of average speed would a cat 4 roadie be churning out on a solo training ride? I generally average 17-19mph on < 40 mile solo rides, would I be too slow?

That's probably the commonest worry, will I be too slow.
It's not usually the speed that's the problem, initially it'll be the 'riding in a bunch' aspect that catches you out. Accelerating out of corners, staying in the wheels, that kind of thing.

Average speed of a 4th cat crit is usually about 23-24 mph which sounds a lot but bear in mind that a group will always move far quicker than a lone rider so 17 avg on your own is easily good enough.

How does the jersey thing work for shop teams, do they have to be registered?

How does the jersey thing work for shop teams, do they have to be registered?

Yes, any commercial team no matter what size whether you are Rapha Condor or Bob's Bikes needs to pay £175 a year plus another £62 per sponsor which may appear on their jersey. This doesn't give you any insurance or anything, jut allows you to see 'Bob's Bikes' in the results list - complete farce....

Something to hopefully inspire. [url= http://www.twickenhamcc.co.uk/tcc/race-report-imperial-winter-series-cat-4-race-3/ ]This [/url]was from today's race. Cold and wet but still a lot of fun.

Good write up TiRed, I enjoyed reading that!

Hillingdon have done wonders with the 4th cats in particular, that introductory video they have seems to have calmed things down a lot.

I did a round last year in similarly shit conditions (E/1/2/3 race), hoping to do another one this year when I'm in London after Christmas.

Aye that was good that TiRed, are you the scribe for all the other stuff? Just read the "race curious" one and it's a good read too, will have a scan through the rest I think.

I thought the clothing rule for Cat 4 has been all but waived, it was generally perceived that anyone turning up wanting to race at that level could wear what they wanted?. Sure, it takes balls to turn up in full Sky attire for your first Cat 4 race but I dont see the harm personally, its another person racing which can only be a good thing. Stupid rules and things will only put people off though I appreciate there is an advertising issue somewhere.

If you're unattached, you are asked to race in as plain a kit as possible. If you rock up in full Sky kit for your first race, you'll be allowed to race, but likely advised against it for future races.

What you won't get away with is a load of folk all turning up in a matching team strip that has no affiliation / registraion to BC.

As for putting people off racing, that's really not an issue at the moment. 3/4 races are massively popular with road races sometimes selling out months in advance.

Thought the jersey thing was 3rd Cat upwards with team shorts?

I thought the clothing rule for Cat 4 has been all but waived, it was generally perceived that anyone turning up wanting to race at that level could wear what they wanted?.

Pretty much.
4th Cats can (within reason) wear whatever kit they want so long as its not offensive (ie no racial/political/sexist statements on it) and fulfils the other clothing obligations (so no sleeveless tops for example).

Once you reach 3rd Cat or above then you either wear the kit of the club listed on your licence or, if you're not in a club, plain colours (usually black).

You can't just go and knock up your own "Team STW Forumite" clothing - clubs and teams have to be affiliated as a way of proving that the name, clothing design and sponsors are all actually true rather than a rider attempting to sound like they're sponsored by loads of companies or someonne isn't trying to rip off an existing team name or kit design.

The rules are there for a reason and they're not supposed to be too arduous although MTBers have historically always been very anti things like rules, governing bodies and organisation... 😉

I like rules, keeps the riff-raff out.

I'll be wearing my finest club kit 🙂

Yes I wrote "Race Curious" too. And most of the Cat 4 reports. I've managed to encourage half a dozen new racers to have a go in the past few months. Steve was one, and he did very well.

As for kit. Officially, Cat 4 is anything goes. But if you are in a BC affiliated club then you are expected to ride in their team kit. At Cat 3 you ride in your club kit or plain. At Cat 2 and above, our club supply the kit.