[Closed] Anti-cyclist road surfacing

Ha, this is what we've had up here for years (Moray), surface dressing I believe they call it.

Yip, here too in places, it's shite.

I was told, by a previous council that I complained to - that "surface dressing" was the layer of tarmac over the old layer. For "waterproofing" or some such cack. It's better to ride on than this stuff, but more useless as potholes just re-appear over a few days.

surface dressing

Same in Warwickshire and it's crap!

You need a gravel bike mate.

Pretty much everywhere does it now. Good old tar-and-chip. The potholes are still there, just temporarily full of loose gravel, the whole surface is as rough as old boots (and presumably increases motor vehicle fuel consumption in much the same way that it’s noticeable harder to cycle on), and it only lasts something like five years anyway.

It’s a bit like having a wall of your house start to crumble away due to persistent damp, and deciding to just pebbledash it.

Our local clubs have a shared crit training circuit on this stuff, it's bloody horrible.

Please do complain. They put it down around here, I heard reports of a few roadies crashing and saw a car through a wall awaiting recovery, none of which I've seen/heard of on the roads affected except just after the surface dressing.

I mean, it's great for my Colin Macrae fantasies, but shit for everything else.

It's all they do in these parts "spray and pray" - literally everywhere, over drain covers, road markings, potholes and within 6 months you're back to bare patches.

It's terrifying on a motorbike as well.

It's really hard to see the reasoning behind it too - these are roads with about 10 vehicles a day, there was nothing wrong with the surface! Whereas there are plenty of pothole strewn crappy A roads they just leave (or patch).
Must be 'justify your budget' time at the council

If you get a really hot summer the tar softens enough for the chips to come loose and stick to car tyres as they drive over it leaving bald patches of soft tar.

Must be ‘justify your budget’ time at the council

Yes I suspect it's not a coincidence that it's March. This happened around here on A roads in April/May, so no idea why. I must revisit them and see if they've been done properly yet.

It's surface dressing and it is cheap.

It's put on roads that have a large number of surface cracks and are therefore at increased risk of suffering more damage as rain and water get in. The tarmac seals the cracks and the chips provide grip.

But... Put it on too cold a road the the chips don't stick to well as the tarmac solidifies too quickly. Put it on too hot a surface and the whole lot just mushes out of the way leaving drifts of chips at corners.

But hey, it's cheaper than doing proper repairs.

LoLZ at the website:

"Highways Asset Management Policy
Providing a safe, well managed, and resilient highway network for all who use it"

Please do complain

Have Tweeted. They seem quite active on Twitter, so will see what bollocks they come back with.

There are people who pay to ride on roads like that.
Gran Fondo Strade Bianche.

It's called top dressing and councils do it because highways engineers are obsessed with skid-resistance. It's not as simple as applying hot tar, that would cool off too fast. The road has to be sprayed with a tar emulsion, which is quite tricky to get right; cars then drive on it and consolidate it and excess granite chips are supposed to be brushed off later. If the engineers get the mix wrong, or the weather wrong and the emulsion doesn't dry out as it should, the whole lot begins to come off and eventually has to be reapplied.

If you crash they will simply point at the warning signs that tell you it's skiddy and you shouldn't speed. They put those there to prevent stupid motorists from braking or cornering too hard and tearing the chips out before the emulsion has dried..

There are people who pay to ride on roads like that.
Gran Fondo Strade Bianche.

I've ridden L'eroica a few times and even the roughest stretches of sterrato are smoother than the pot-holed excuses we have for roads in some parts of the country

It’s called top dressing

Yep, they seem to do round our way on the same bits of road pretty much every year.

So it's rough and covered in loose crap for a while, then beds in and is a relatively smooth surface, then settles into all the pre-existing cracks and depressions in the road they didn't bother to fix, then the cold weather comes and cracks it up again and the merry cycle resumes...

Here's the Tweeted reply:
"This is likely to be related to the surface dressing. This is an industry standard road surface treatment that is used to maintain all types of road. Its quick, efficient, cost effective and protects the road, thus making it last longer
Most roads across Britain’s network, especially older ones, are surfaced using these types of materials. It does take a few days to settle and then it will be swept to remove loose material. Hope this helps (smiley face)"

I've replied I'll check to see if they are swept in a few weeks, cos I can't ride them at the moment.

I've seen it done well, a couple of times. But mostly not. When they did my road about 8 years ago, they had sweeper teams, actual dudes with massive brushies backed up by a gutter sweeper, coming back every couple of days- the surface has broken up now but it was good for a long time

So ubiquitous now, it's weird when you actually come across a bit of proper fresh, smooth tarmac.

Anybody who lives around Helmshore in Lancs will remember that a couple of years ago they top-dressed the road from the Grane down to Helmshore but did it badly and as soon as the rain fell it all began to come off. You would ride or drive along with granite chips pinging off your bike or car and weeks later I discovered that my car was covered with tar, which I guess must have been the failed emulsion.

Proper smooth fresh black tarmac is hot-rolled, which is expensive and is generally only done when the Tour de France is about to come though your village and you don't want to be embarrassed on national TV.

@DezB - I'd reply stating that: "No it doesn't help as it now masks the potholes creating a hidden danger to road users. Much better if you actually repaired the road before putting a sticking plaster over the faults."

chakaping

Subscriber

So ubiquitous now, it’s weird when you actually come across a bit of proper fresh, smooth tarmac.

They did a road near my work to absolutely beautiful standard a couple of years back, I ended up stopping and going over and thanking the road crew 🙂 Of course, everyone complained because the road was single lane for weeks while they did it, but you can't have it all

I’d reply stating that: “No it doesn’t help as it now masks the potholes.."

As I said earlier - "there was nothing wrong with the surface! Whereas there are plenty of pothole strewn crappy A roads they just leave (or patch)."
Roads are hardly used by cars, so there is no reason to dress them like this. There weren't any potholes!

Oh there's a road they've done beautifully nearer to home. But then the houses along this road are huge great 6 bed jobs and old folks homes where the councillors live or have their old mam shacked up!

It’s called top dressing and councils do it because highways engineers are obsessed with skid-resistance.

No, they do it because it's cheap and is better than nothing.

it’s weird when you actually come across a bit of proper fresh, smooth tarmac.

IME it's normally where it's been uncovered by a big patch of chip-and-tar having come adrift.

"This is an industry standard road surface treatment that is used to maintain all types of road. Its quick, efficient, cost effective and protects the road cheap, thus making it last longer ticks the box"

FTFY

And balls is it used for all types of road. Show me a motorway or a strategic A-road that's been tar-and-chipped…

Quick, there's money left in the budget, get it spent quick or they'll cut the budget next year.

Happens every March.

Sounds like most of the roads in my part of the Highlands.

And the answer is as scotroutes said, a gravel bike. 🙂

Even better if you can squeeze a 2.35" Schwalbe Big Apple or G-One Speed on.

What do ya think I commute on!? Just changed tyres to Spesh Rubaixs though.. literally the week before they did this crap 😖

@DezB - they don't know that! 😉

I think it has been used on motorways etc but apparently the work team have to bed it in all night and meticulously sweep it in the early hours before re-opening the road. So I was told...can't remember if that was in years gone by or if its still done.

Spooky

It's not used on motorways. They tend to resurface properly. Though the often don't go deep enough due to having to opete road in the morning.

If you ride in Hampshire they are about to do £9m worth of dressing. The do also do repairs on the worst potholes before the surface dressers turn up.

Cost wise it's about £3 a Sqm for dressing compared to £11 for resurfacing the top 40mm.

In Norfolk they seem to ignore the ‘sweeping after a few days’ bit.

I hate to break this to you but council budget funding has been slashed and it’s going to get worse. Once all the statutory requirements have been met there’s chuff all for anything else (and has to take a disproportionate hit). And some councils struggle to even meet that.

Do you think roads and highway engineers like doing this? Do you know how demoralising it is to road workers knowing that it’s not the right answer to the problem?

And the roads are just an obvious manifestation of the problem.

10+ years of austerity and ‘efficiency’ savings, welcome to Brexit Britain.

Never recall having a problem riding my bikes (mtb/bmx/road) on it when I was a teenager. Must have either had mad skills or taken sensible precautions with my speed.

If they cleaned out the gullies more frequently there wouldn't be as much flooding which leads to more potholes. Which leads to more surface dressing which they don't clean out of the gullies which block and cause more flooding which causes more potholes..... repeat to fade

Works ok on minor French roads but then they have open ditches in the verges for drainage

Longwood Dean Lane, just west of Owslebury, was mysteriously re-surfaced in butter smooth tarmac last summer... Even though the old stuff was perfectly fine. It's been my favourite sub 2mile stretch of tarmac since the new stuff was laid, but I'm still waiting for the news of a race or TT along it!

If you crash they will simply point at the warning signs that tell you it’s skiddy and you shouldn’t speed.

You can then ask why they are using materials not up to the job if warnings are required. Remember safety hierarchy is engineer out first, warning and information a long way last.

I dream of the roads here being surface dressed. The last time they did the road past our house was in 1996 and they've done no routine maintenance since apart from half-hearted patches to potholes when phoned relentlessly. Rural Devon.

As someone said earlier.

This is just one of the more visible signs of huge budget cuts.

The real harm, social care etc being starved is more hidden from view until it touches you or a member of your family....

Never recall having a problem riding my bikes (mtb/bmx/road) on it when I was a teenager. Must have either had mad skills or taken sensible precautions with my speed.

*swoons*.

It really depends how it is when you ride it. It can be totally unrideable piles of gravel in places. As in impossible to go in a straight line, not just talking skidding off on bends here (the section people crashed on near me is a bit undulating but doesn't have any corners you'd even think about on a bike - just piles of gravel that you can't safely ride through at any speed).

Do you think roads and highway engineers like doing this? Do you know how demoralising it is to road workers knowing that it’s not the right answer to the problem?

Why are they treating roads that don't need treating then? And leaving, or badly patching, the ones that do? My ****ing heart bleeds for them it really does.

Comically in Norwich on the run up to where i work, they did it without informing anyone that the works were taking place, and they did it around the parked cars, so if you rode a bike, you didn't just have the terrible surface to contend with, but also the 1/2 inch step up and down with each void left where a car had been, along with large piles of the chips as they couldn't sweep them away

I had so many punctures (before road tubeless was a thing) on this, that i ended up running solid Tannus tyres, bloody horrible stuff

They treat them for multiple reasons.

One being so they don’t get in to bad a condition an other being it may look good but the aggregate has become polished and no longer provides skid resistance.