[Closed] Another What bike thread - not getting on with my soul

Feeling and being slower are different things, going from a very conservative Trek geometry wise to a bike that is likely the best part of half a foot longer will take some getting used to and adapting too. I have a MK5 Soul and it is one of the fastest hardtails I've ridden. Yes it feels more laboured than others, I had numerous 26" hardtails to compare it too, even an older BFe, but the clock doesn't lie and it is way, way faster. It likely feels slower because the handling is calmer than the shorter, steeper Trek. I find you just need to ride them more actively; get your weight further forward and accept it isn't going to "feel" fast and it'll fly.

I’ve got one of the last gen Souls too. Built pretty light with carbon rims, but chunky tyres. Only ridden it properly twice and it was very, very fast on both occasions. Probably one of the quickest HT’s I’ve ridden on the more rocky stuff.

Presume you changed to different wheels, tyres, etc... what are they, compared to your old ones?

sadexpunk is after a Soul if you're thinking of selling!

sadexpunk is after a Soul if you’re thinking of selling!

top man, thanks for thinking of me dez, im after a mk 1 soul or solaris tho, im after that 'pre-CEN' twang 🙂

What size frame is it..?

Presume you changed to different wheels, tyres, etc… what are they, compared to your old ones?

I was going to ask about tyres.

Thanks for the feedback...

I do have new forks to chuck on it now I’ve got another wheel built as I got the hub size wrong on the original build.... so will give it some more time, but looking for other frames

New wheels are stans crest rims vs old Mavic rims nothing particularly special.... I even went with the same tyres on for both builds, so new wheels are lighter and better

Looking at strava I am doing better on some sections mainly the downhill bits, and I agree there it and technical bits it’s a bit faster, but all round on same loops I don’t think it’s faster.... will have to double check on strava

Another one here who thinks his mkV Soul is the fastest hard tail he’s ridden - and the best technical climber too. It’s no xc race bike, but show it some unpleasant trails and it’ll make an awful lot of full sus riders look a bit stupid.

You do have to grab it by the scruff of the neck and drive it, but even in tight noodley woodsy stuff, the speed you can carry through the turns is amazing. But you have to approach it in a different manner - almost like riding a moderately burly full sus. Carve, hop, pump, manual…

<edit> this is what it’s good at…

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I don't believe bikes (frames) are inherently fast or slow unless you have the extremes of pig iron gaspipe BSO vs a carbon XC bike, or something extremely aero. Tyres can be fast or slow. But MTB frames, I think they either work with you or against you. If the bike fits and the geometry and frame responses suits you it all gels and you flow better, that's all.

Us saying a bike is 'faster' than another w/o quantifying it is normal enough but it does play to the marketeers who sell lighter+stiffer=faster etc and that's mostly baseless sales stuff. Fast is rider and bike in harmony and it's more complex than weight and stiffness. I think it's too nuanced for a simple marketing line so they revert back to easy measures.

+1 jameso.

If you don't get on with it get something else.might be worth not selling it though until you compare it with your new frame so you do not make a mistake when the only difference might be the feel from modern new geometry. So it may be a case of just getting used to it and a new frame may be similar.

Sorry for another what bike thread!!

Don't apologise, if you can't ask a nerdy bike question on here, we're all homeless...I also dodn't get on with the Soul (although the one I rode was a Gen1 26" version) it's OK not to like a bike, I didn't get on with a couple of other classics that were supposed to be the be-all and end-all of steel frames...

Modern composite race bikes are all pretty bloody fast these days, they're certainly not "all slack angles and slow"

It sounds like you want your bike to feel more flighty and exciting.

Perhaps less stable is a good thing for you? I find my son's long travel 29er amazingly fast - but hard work in feel to my lighter, shorter, steeper hardtail. Neither is better, but I wouldn't have his bike.

Feeling and being slower are different things

Yep. I prefer the feeling of 26" wheels over 29" wheels as they just feel more lively (which could feel faster) but they are definitely slower.
Last year I used a slackish bike that felt slow but when looking on strava it was quicker than previous bikes. However, still didn't like riding it as an XC bike is a better match to how I like an MTB to feel and enjoying what I ride is more important than times on strava.

Have you played around with setup. Bar height, stem length etc?

You've gone from FS to HT, it's gonna feel slower tbh, go back to FS?.

Cheeky blatant (not) stealth ad - I’m selling my Soul. Tis in the classifieds if anyone is interested.

Horses for courses.
One person's fast is another person's twitchy.
Another person's slow is also called stable.

From the sounds of your riding you need an XC 29er. Spark or something akin would be good.

Its about fun isn't it? Unless you're racing
Getting the right size frame is super important, of course. After 30 years on bikes that were basically too short - Moving to Mr Porter's Geometron 5 years ago has given my riding a totally new lease of life. so much more fun.

By OP's username i think he needs an oldschool / newskool Dekerf!

More here: https://www.dekerf.com/products/complete-bikes/mountain-bike/

I still have my 96 generation and loved that bike.... considering getting disks and some short travel suspension forks for it as the original colour coded rock whiz died years ago.

One of the nicest fun bikes I have had

You’ve gone from FS to HT, it’s gonna feel slower tbh, go back to FS?.

Only had it a year and rode giant mcm team for many years before that. Sadly the giant always felt a little too small, and although the trek was too small it was same reach as the giant it felt right (could tell it was too small by the amount of post showing

I’m 6ft 2 with a 35 inside leg and the trek was a 17.5 medium

t sounds like you want your bike to feel more flighty and exciting.

Perhaps less stable is a good thing for you? I find my son’s long travel 29er amazingly fast – but hard work in feel to my lighter, shorter, steeper hardtail. Neither is better, but I wouldn’t have his bike.

Possibly, think the way the soul picks up speed is very different, it always feels like you have to push yourself on it and make it go fast, neither the trek or my giant needed me to push them to actually go fast

Thanks for the responses, I have replied to some directly

I am having a play around with set up currently still, tonight I have switched from a basic set of judy’s (only there as a temporary measure as new wheels didn’t fit the fork I purchased) to some Dt Swiss forks with 120mm travel, and a new front wheel, same rim but just a non-boost hub. I’ve also lowered the stem a bit to see if that helps at all

Might try with my faster more xc tyres again but surprisingly when I first used them it felt even slower and twitchy that the trek (and giant) on those tyres

On rough ground a HT is going to take more technique and effort to roll over things and maintain speed. Combine with the LLS, I can imagine the bike feels 'too calm' and 'hook up' on lumps.

The payback of course is the direct response when you do stomp on the pedals or look to maintain speed on a smoother trail with corners 😎

Keen on the soul if you want to get rid

All my currently Strava KOM's (not that I have many!) were set on my 26" wheeled Soul (one of the early ones) so it's definitely not slow. It does depend on built though. Prior to its latest rebuild (back to a sort of XC spec) my bike was running heavy wheels, types and coil forks and while fun it wasn't quick.

Mine is on 100mm Fox Floats, very light Hope Pro-3 wheels, Specalised Fast Trak tyres and a 1x11 build with a 36t up from and 11-46 cassette. It's not that light at 25lbs but it's definitely quick on XC type trails (until it runs out of gears, which is one reason why my 3x9 Epic is faster than it).

Joining the queue if you do decide to sell (if its medium)

Put it this way, if you do decide the Soul isnt for you, it aint going to be a problem selling it!

Continuing this thread, spent more time on the soul and it’s still not growing on me. Well it was, unroll last night when I went out on the trek again and it was that much faster, bearing in mind I’d been for a 7 mile run that morning and on feet all day, the trek was smashing the times set by the soul!!!

The trek is older heavier and worse specced but feels so much better, but the soul has highlighted it’s too small

Think I’m gonna look out for a bigger trek, I think

Whatever you do, don't sell your soul.

I'm late to this thread, but you seem to be completely blind to the fact that an FS is a more optimised bit of kit for going fast off road.

It reads like this:

'I bought are hardtail to replace my full suspension bike and I'm sad the hardtail is slower'

Whilst the rest of us go 'yeah'. Because unless you're a pro rider, thats the way it is.

Presumably went from 26" wheels to 27.5" as well as going from FS to HT. 27.5 will take longer to get up to speed but will carry it for longer. 29er will be different again.

My Solaris (not the current version) is a great bike. It's nimble yet has a long enough reach to be stable.

Previous to the trek (8 months) I had an old carbon giant HT, which was similar speed to the trek over same routes.... so not quite, trails I usually ride are fairly smooth and not massively aggressive, even down named down trials round here the soul is probably the slowest. Went to the Surrey hills recently and definitely the soul was good, the the xc trek would have been faster, have to wait and see for that