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Have you seen their Insta post from today?! Genuinely does read like a Sick! back story!
Erm, no, they banned me! Is it any good?
I've seen the back and forth with Foes on Vital. Absolute cringefest.
Well, that’s escalating badly. Awful suspension design plus delusional behaviour, it really is Sick 2.0
Oh my, that comments section has kicked right off!!
[Foes enters the room...]
[img] 
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They honestly think they’re onto something that the rest of the industry is too stupid to figure out.
They are!! I have spent a lot more time reading that stuff despite having absolutely no intention of buying a product. I barely ever even click the links on new bike releases here on pinkbike or on mtbr they are dull as dishwater, same shit trotted out every month.
They figured out how to capture haters, critics, instamorons , and a lot of people like me who visited for the pure entertainment of it all. Some may even buy something
They definitely figured out how to do something ever other press release hankers for.
They figured out how to capture haters, critics, instamorons , and a lot of people like me who visited for the pure entertainment of it all. Some may even buy something
How did it work out the last time a company did that? For both company and customers?
All the copy and press reads a bit ‘MTB for flat earthers’.
It's very definitely "try hard counter culture"... Sick Bikes turned up a notch if you will!
I’ve seen the back and forth with Foes on Vital. Absolute cringefest
There's a response in there somewhere from user "Primoz" that simply says "There is no such thing as bad publicity?"
Sums up their approach perfectly to me!
Not a very interesting result. BB drop is minimal, that’s about all that stood out.
I think that's the thing... Their "secret sauce" is so run of the mill that they're scared to admit just how average it is... BB height and the 35% digressive shock leverage curve aside that is...
Let's not forget that their USP is the mixed wheel sizes, something that many other manufacturers are now offering form the factory, and something that many people have done off their own back on their existing frames anyway (sometimes modifying geometry to suit, sometimes not). It's widely acknowledged now that a 27.5" rear wheel paired with a 29er front will aid the bike to turn in a little quicker and to feel a bit more direct, without sacrificing any stability. However, this is only one very small characteristic amongst a frames design criteria, arguably the geometry and suspension performance are far more important than the wheel sizes yet their USP relies on them proving the opposite is true in order to sell their frames...
BB drop is about the width of a chain.
Static bb drop of big travel 650 bikes is about the same.Although as you will have to run about 10% sag to avoid bottoming out, it will sit higher.
Let's not try to counter marketing with science now... That would be wholly unfair! 😉
I went to see if there was any new Instagram activity just to find they’ve deleted almost all of the comments overnight. They’ve only left a handful of positive ones.
It's hard to argue with tried and trusted methods... Censor the unbelievers, repeat the anti-establisment underdog mantra ad infinitum, give the easily suggestible a platform to vocalise their support uninhibited. 🤷🏻♂️
How did it work out the last time a company did that? For both company and customers?
Some people made money, some people lost money... It definitely proved to be an unsustainable long term business model though if that was ever a prior concern.
So these guys have deleted all the comments?
Note: 30% Restocking Fee applied to returned Deposits
Win win!
Note: 30% Restocking Fee applied to returned Deposits
Win win!
Begs the question... Why bother creating a product in the first place? 🤷🏻♂️
Everyone just acting like the specialized big hit didn't exist, what the hell?
Everyone just acting like the
specialized big hitCannondale Beast of the East didn’t exist, what the hell?
FTFY.
Those head-badges though. Put me down for two at that price. Bargain!
Well..... that turned ugly fast.
Why on earth would anyone embarking on a sales/marketing campaign post all that?!?!?
Sounds like there is a long running feud here between foes and "mullet mike" (as I shall call him) which is now being played out in public - seems like a excellent way to introduce your new brand to the MTB community, lol. Maybe I'm just out of touch and this is all some sort of weird new viral marketing strategy?
Have pinkbike spotted this yet?
Maybe I’m just out of touch and this is all some sort of weird new viral marketing strategy?
It's basically Donald Trump's (and a whole lot of other hucksters') strategy reheated. You say something outrageous, get media attention, then keep turning the outrageousness dial up more and more. You just keep getting free media attention. It might alienate the majority of people, but some will admire you for being edgy and "saying it like it is".
The mullet "The Peacemaker" page 1(a seriously dumb name) is screaming out for a resticker "The Pisstaker" 😆
dyna-ti
Free Member
The mullet “The Peacemaker” page 1(a seriously dumb name) is screaming out for a resticker “The Pisstaker” 😆
I'm sure someone on here could knock up said name up on a pic of their bike.lol
dyna-ti, you best make sure you ™ that name now.😉
Everyone just acting like the specialized big hit didn’t exist, what the hell?
I know, right? Like nobody has been doing mullet bikes for years.
I know, right? Like nobody has been doing mullet bikes for years.
To be fair, I haven't seen any companies really put any great thought into mullet bikes in the last few years. Weirdly, the old BigHit and Trek 69er seemingly had a bit of thought, all those years ago. Every current option just seems to be a bigger wheel (and fork?) shoved into a 27.5 frame. Which obviously causes some pretty drastic changes in geometry, not all of which are necessarily welcome (E.g. raised BB, for one).
So, a company that is paying attention to this trend, investing in thoughtful design and jumping in with two feet would be great.
On the other hand, these guys seem to have just bought a boatload of cheap frames with unknown geometry and a ridiculous suspension design. It's a shame.
The comments from Foes have been taken down, and the world seems a less colourful place this morning
Superficial
To be fair, I haven’t seen any companies really put any great thought into mullet bikes in the last few years.
There are a few - Geometron have the G1 designed to take the smaller rear wheel with a bolt-in chip that keeps the same Geo, and you can shorten the stays with a second part if you want - they've probably been doing mixed wheel size longer than Mullet have, mind.
They're in the minority though, the Intense that was reviewed on Pinkbike comes to mind, where they just stuck the smaller wheel in and to hell with the geoemtry, which is a joke.
The comments from Foes have been taken down, and the world seems a less colourful place this morning
The comment section is still a shitshow full of obvious shilling, though. The owner's comments about 'cancel culture', his 'militia' of fanbois and being a 'real man' give a flavour of who you're dealing with.
I don't think he has fanbois, it's just him registering new accounts and posting
The most telling stuff is from Vorsprung - you'd normally expect companies liek that to play it safe and be quiet, but such is the scale of bullshit being posted that he felt compelled to get involved.
"To be fair, I haven’t seen any companies really put any great thought into mullet bikes in the last few years. Weirdly, the old BigHit and Trek 69er seemingly had a bit of thought, all those years ago. Every current option just seems to be a bigger wheel (and fork?) shoved into a 27.5 frame. Which obviously causes some pretty drastic changes in geometry, not all of which are necessarily welcome (E.g. raised BB, for one)."
That's not true at all. Most of the current options involve 29er bikes with adjustable suspension through changing part of the linkage or moving a flipchip to compensate for the 19mm smaller radius of a 27.5 wheel. And there are also bikes that are full 29/27.5 mullet only.
Just looking at one of the biggest brands of the lot, the Specialized Status is 29/27.5 whilst the Stumpjumper Evo can be 29/29 or 29/27.5
And if you go to the smaller brands, you've got Orange, Banshee, Forbidden, Nicolai/Geometron, Liteville, Starling, the list goes on and on...
Yeah the Vorsprung response is telling. They usually come across really well and happy to get involved in the comments on Pinkbike, they do a great job of presenting the facts to help people understand what they’re up to. Effectively the polar opposite of what Mullet are doing
To be fair, I haven’t seen any companies really put any great thought into mullet bikes in the last few years.
Specialized? Alchemy? Geometron? NS Bikes? Canyon? Santa Cruz? Starling? Liteville?
EDIT: Hah! chiefgrooveguru beat me to it! Took me five minutes to remember the name of Liteville...!
To be fair, I haven’t seen any companies really put any great thought into mullet bikes in the last few years.
Not being common isn't the same as not having been thought about. It's likely that all the bike manufacturers have looked at it and mostly rejected it apart from fairly niche purposes.
I just remembered I was looking at Pivot and Kona last week... add them to the list... both using flip chips so you can use either a 29er or a 275 rear wheel. I'd say that more companies have put thought into mullet bikes than haven't.
Hope do a mullet kit for their HB130. New link with bearings which takes the travel to 140mm and does some kinematic stuff and a new rear wheel with tyre.
"The owner’s comments about ‘cancel culture’, his ‘militia’ of fanbois and being a ‘real man’ give a flavour of who you’re dealing with."
I wondered what Ant Middleton was going to do with himself.
they just stuck the smaller wheel in and to hell with the geoemtry, which is a joke.
The owner mulleting a bike to change the geometry is a well known scenario. But if it works for some owners to do just that, and many do, why not offer it in a brand new bike? I wouldn't necessarily call it a joke. Its not sending the geometry to hell, it is sending it (hee hee) to a well-defined place the owner may prefer.
Two and a half grand for an alloy single pivot frame with "secret sauce" geometry. Shut up and take my money!
Looks like a bad Orange copy made by a Jordan Peterson fan.
Where was the Vorsprung comment? Missed that one, I like those guys
Vorsprung
2/26/2021 2:56 PM
I usually refrain from commenting critically on other companies' press releases, however there is a huge amount of straight up bullshit in there as pertains to physics claims. For starters, a falling rate rear end (ie leverage ratio increasing as the suspension compresses)... about the only thing the suspension/framebuilding parts of the bike industry have broadly come to a consensus on is that a straight up falling rate is really not a good idea. Among a great many other things, on their DSSP marketing page they've got a graph of the "shock characteristic" from Linkage, but evidently haven't realised that graph doesn't have anything to do with the frame, it is a graph of the shock's spring curve that you input into the program. They're also claiming that their singlepivot is inherently superior to other singlepivots, for Reasons (TM). A huge chunk of the talk about handling (taken from their web page) is also just straight up BS, for example the "axle force line" is not a thing. They've got force vector lines drawn all over the place in ways that are meaningless.
Then there’s another (even longer) comment after one of the supposed fanbois has a pop at them
Ta- that's brutal
It is brilliant when gobby shysters get called out and roasted on t'interwebz.
I guess they've just got to hope there's enough plonkers out there willing to buy a shit (and probably non-existent) bike just to 'stick it to the bike industry man'.
Otherwise it just looks like a poor Sick! ponzi tribute act.
Is anyone else hoping they see this thread and start posting? My life is that bereft of anything at the moment that it would actually make my day if they did.
Go ahead and PM a link to this thread to one of the Mullet shysters. Or don't. I'm not sure we need the drama.
Can't you go and argue over there?
My life is that bereft of anything at the moment
U ok hun?
😀
But yes it would be quite funny if they turned up. Sick! 2.0 Seriously doubt it would happen though
I'm loving the 'there is no bad publicity' idea as that died years ago. Now whenever anyone sees BS marketing they automatically thing that's Sick! (tm). I think after the DecorMyEyes thing Google stopped people trying to game search results with bad reviews
Google Changes Its Rank Algorithm In Response To DecorMyEyes Story | TechCrunch
Surely mullet bikes should be called Chelsea bikes.Long at the front ,short at the back.
What an absolute cluster**** that it.
No geo details, wild suspension claims that make little sense, a cringe worthy 'attitude' and a bike that looks 20 years old. And £2500.
Yes please, sign me up.
You would have to be certifiable
I reckon they bought some 27.5 frames out of a Taiwanese catalogue and stuck a 29er front end on them hence why they won't share the geo as it will be awful 🤣
If you wanted a single pivot mullet bike...well there are plenty of choices that would be just fine (Starling, Orange spring immediately to mind)
What was the gist of the Foes back and forth
Something about one of the Mullet bikes actually being a rebranded Mixer?
No geo details, wild suspension claims that make little sense, a cringe worthy ‘attitude’ and a bike that looks 20 years old. And £2500.
You forgot the 30% restocking fee and vague commitments to any warranty or support...
I have remembered what they look like - remember the Club Roost full suss frames that were basically a Santa Cruz Superlight rip off? Early 2000’s I think? Reminds me of those.
So, Jameso's image suggests it's got 0bb drop
As an example, my Jeffsy 27 (in low) has a 15mm BB drop.
A 29er fork would raise the BB about 15mm...
I wouldn't want to share that geo either !
No geo details, wild suspension claims that make little sense, a cringe worthy ‘attitude’ and a bike that looks 20 years old. And £2500.
You forgot the 30% restocking fee and vague commitments to any warranty or support…
Yeah, but sweet head badge
Yeah, but sweet head badge
I think I'd be more likely to buy one if the head badge was sweets, like those elastic bracelets you used to get in the 80s, or the edible clothing you now get in seaside novelty shops.
So, Jameso’s image suggests it’s got 0bb drop
As an example, my Jeffsy 27 (in low) has a 15mm BB drop.
A 29er fork would raise the BB about 15mm…
I wouldn’t want to share that geo either !
The image suggests 0mm relative to the line between the axles. The axle-to-axle line on a mullet bike would be about 6mm higher than the rear axle (19mm higher front axle, scale by 1/3 or so for the chainstay/wheelbase ratio). So the figure for comparison with a 27.5 bike is +6mm bb drop, with a 29 bike -13mm. On the high side, a 2017 Trek Slash (29er, 150mm/160mm) is -21 or -28 depending on flop chop for example.
My use of positives and negatives is upside down there because that is what makes sense to me, but probably not you... Reverse the numbers for a more conventional "positive bb drop means lower bb".
I think I need to sketch that out 🙂 I may have to have a play in CAD
Ok fair play, BB height isn't as clear but on a mullet bike, but Mullet (TM) not releasing any geo details just seems very shady 🤣
As an aside, what's the comparative norm for measuring BB drop on a mullet bike? Axle to axle or do you use relative height from one of the axles? Maybe I can mullet my Jeffsy after all?!
As an aside, what’s the comparative norm for measuring BB drop on a mullet bike? Axle to axle or do you use relative height from one of the axles?
This is a good point as the overlay measurements I put on that image simply went axle to axle as that's the easy way to reference a photo without it being a real guessing game. It means the HTA shown is about a degree steeper than it really is and the BB is a bit higher than it might look vs the axle line since the line's not parallel to the floor.
BB drop for a mullet bike could be axle line as an easy comparison to other mullet bikes but really should be perpendicular to lines through axle, parallel to the ground. Could have a 27.5 axle drop and a 29 axle drop to reference to other matched wheel bikes, or if given drop vs one axle line you'd know the other is +/- 19mm. Seems to make sense to use the rear axle line generally as it's linked to CS length / rest of frame.
Gutted!
The VitalMTB link is no more... It has been taken down! 😧
Something tells me this won't be the last we hear of Mullet Cycles though, and until their next shill-fest, there's almost certainly enough hidden gems in their website to keep most of us amused for a while... 🤭
Ooo, is this thread going to be next?
BB drop for a mullet bike could be axle line as an easy comparison to other mullet bikes but really should be perpendicular to lines through axle, parallel to the ground. Could have a 27.5 axle drop and a 29 axle drop to reference to other matched wheel bikes, or if given drop vs one axle line you’d know the other is +/- 19mm. Seems to make sense to use the rear axle line generally as it’s linked to CS length / rest of frame.
My new (Mullet wheeled, but not Mullet branded!) bike arrived a couple of days ago, I've just taken the measurements for you...
Static BB height: 335mm
Rear axle height: 355mm
Front axle height: 374mm
BB drop is quoted as 35mm though... 🤷🏻♂️
A simple average would have it ~30mm drop if it's axle to axle - but the BB is closer to the rear axle so that's too basic
Have to know the wheelbase and chainstay length to do it properly
What front and rear travel is it?
A simple average would have it ~30mm drop if it’s axle to axle – but the BB is closer to the rear axle so that’s too basic
Have to know the wheelbase and chainstay length to do it properly
What front and rear travel is it?
They really aren't doing this properly, are they?
I mean, leaving STW to speculate and analyse the geo just marks them down as rank amateurs. If they were worthy heirs to Sick! they would have sent one of their shills onto here by now to stir up a row, get some abuse, then report the posts and do a flounce.
Every time this thread is near the top of the page I think 'potential gold', yet all I see is people talking about leverage ratios and falling rise rates on the falling curve caused by the jiggle pin. Or something...
I see that Mullet Cycles pulled the article on VitalMTB. I guess they got a bit it upset
leaving STW to speculate and analyse the geo just marks them down as rank amateurs
The STW forum possibly has far greater influence in Worthing than Colorado?
I see that Mullet Cycles pulled the article on VitalMTB. I guess they got a bit it upset
I can't use Instagram, so can't see if there is a flounce in progress sadly 😅
I mean, leaving STW to speculate and analyse the geo just marks them down as rank amateurs. If they were worthy heirs to Sick! they would have sent one of their shills onto here by now to stir up a row, get some abuse, then report the posts and do a flounce.
Indeed.
I was really hoping I’d get to hear just why a fing head tube badge was worth $15k.......🤣
yea, they pulled it. it was also confirmed that there were more than 1 individual posting from the same bike shop (i'm assuming its the one associated with the brand).
How utterly bizzare!
Nothing ever really dies on the internet - here's the article for the latecomers...