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These came up on another thread about mixed wheel sizes recently.
I said at the time that the website (and the bizarre random fonts) reminded me of our favourite tattooists-cum-bicycle-magnates.
Now looking at how things are kicking off in this Vital article
"Secret" geometry, maybe they cant measure them until they come out the containers?
It seems they are from the same school of advertising and customer service too.
We don’t believe in marketing BS…
…followed by a load of absolute marketing BS.
Good grief - that has to be one of the ugliest looking frames in a long time !
go to the comments for that page
Looks like there is a pile of astroturfing going on that has been spotted by the admin.
The company was touched on towards the end of this thread...
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/mullet-mx-bike-whos-ridden-one/page/2/#post-11755805
My take on it is simple... In an age of transparency, trying to be all secretive and creating a cult of followers based around your (supposed lack of!) Marketing Hype and no real substance, just doesn't cut it... We've seen that with Sick (and they at least printed their Geometry!) and look how that turned out!
Good luck to them... I wouldn't consider parting with any money without seeing geometry numbers first, and from the pics, the BB height has an old school 26" Santa Cruz Bullit look to it... And I had one of those, and it was HIGH!
Reminds me of the club roosts on CRC back in the early 00's.
That’s some of the worst marketing bollocks I’ve ever read.
Looks like an old diamondback xts moto
I like the paint job on the one with the HELM fork - I do like a black and gold scheme.
Looks like there is a pile of astroturfing going on that has been spotted by the admin.
Yeah, that's the real news here. Straight-up snake oil being sold to Vital MTB. Pretty embarrassing for Vital to publish this TBH, but at least they noticed the comments and called it out.
The bikes look like shit, too.
Comments are great though!
Mullet should be glad this didn't make the Pinkbike front page, because ya'll would have got a much worse response than what's here.
Mullet should be glad this didn’t make the Pinkbike front page, because ya’ll would have got a much worse response than what’s here.
Interesting, as I'd assume that the sort of article/press release is a paid one? Or do you just fire out press releases and hope the various press sites pick it up and feature?
Anybody in the know as to how this works, and how its different when comparing the big guys - vital and PB versus the smaller players like STW and NSMB?
Wow, the coments under that Vital story went full 'certified dumpster fire' real fast.
Hope it does end up on the PB front page, could use a giggle on a rainy Wednesday.
"6 inches of CONTINUOUS travel front and rear"
Words fail me.
“6 inches of CONTINUOUS travel front and rear”
Words fail me.
I've some marzocchi forks in the garage which if you used them, would make you realise that's not as stupid a statement as you might think.
Can someone tell me what an "unfavourable speed pocket" is please?
Can someone tell me what an “unfavourable speed pocket” is please?
A shart.
Blimey, I saw the first pic of the ugly swingarm and dropout, scrolled down and saw that they'd done the same to the other side too.
Those replies though, I haven't seen astroturfing like that since I watched a First Division football match in 1986.
I'll pass, thanks.
Can someone tell me what an “unfavourable speed pocket” is please?
I thought it was something to do with billiards.
Can someone tell me what an “unfavourable speed pocket” is please?
A polite term for having a bouncer turn you away post-frisk from 1980s Essex nite-club?
That press release is an absolute classic of the genre. Brilliant stuff.
The comments are very well deserved.
i followed them on Insta for a couple of weeks, but they're idiots. It's all everybody else's fault, naming websites and magazines that wouldn't give them the time of day, talking about 'experts' without actually backing it up, etc. Just chancers and as for not showing their geometry - no thanks, no informed buyer would take that sort of BS. It's a shame because the mullet idea is one I really like, but these knobbers aren't helping anyone.
oh dear,
i do like the double bearings tho.
but oh dear
did no one pick up that they've just ripped off a FOES Mixxer - a quick google shows it is indeed identicle..
did no one pick up that they’ve just ripped off a FOES Mixxer – a quick google shows it is indeed identicle..
but does the foes still have your parents’ single pivot? this one has been designed for a single ring. patented position and everything!
perhaps their reluctance to reveal their secret geometry has something to do with it being identical to the Foes...
So Mullet have ™'ed the whole English language?😁
What a load of marketing cobblers, even by MTB standards.
did no one pick up that they’ve just ripped off a FOES Mixxer – a quick google shows it is indeed identicle..
They look nothing alike?
did no one pick up that they’ve just ripped off a FOES Mixxer
The design? which is different? or did you mean the Foes website, extract below, which now seems very familiar...
The 2021 Mixer is now available!
The very same frame found on the Foes Limited Edition Hall of Fame Mixer, the 2021 Mixer is designed around this proven wheel configuration to give you the correct head angle and BB height. With this concept in mind, the 2021 Mixer gives you a ride and feel like no other bicycle you have ridden. This design places the front wheel axle higher than the rear axle, which makes the bike easier to lift over obstacles, and more responsive. With the bigger wheel up front, the rider leans forward more to weight the front wheel for better traction. Look no further than any modern off-road motorcycle design for proof of concept. The 2021 Mixer has 6″ of REAL travel that descends like it’s on rails and climbs like a spider monkey…
Here’s how the Mixer works…
The front axle is higher than the rear. The front of the bike feels lighter when it comes to clearing obstacles.
Cornering speed is increased because of the 2 wheel sizes. Wheels rotate in different arcs so the back wheel always tracks the front wheel’s path.
Acceleration is increased as chain stay length is shorter than 29” rear wheel models.
The new 2021 Mixer is a combination of CNC machined components and our exclusive hydroformed parts utilizing 6061 T6 aircraft alloy. All frames are hand welded, heat treated, machined and checked for alignment before being assembled right here in our factory.
Foes 2021 Mixer
29″ front wheel w/ 27.5” rear wheel
Suspension travel 6″/ 160mm 2.4 : 1 Rising Rate leverage ratio
Double butted 6061 alloy hydroformed down tube
Tapered head tube 1 ⅛” ZS, 1 ½” ZS44|ZS56
Full complement double-sealed pivot bearings
68mm BB/threaded shell
12mm x 148mm (boost spacing) thru-axle with hanger/nut combo
Replaceable ISCG05 mounting plate
Prismatic single pass color options INCLUDED!
Ask about Illusion or 2 stage color upgrades.
Base Price $ 2499 with Manitou McCleod shock
Ask about shock upgrade options
Anybody in the know as to how this works, and how its different when comparing the big guys – vital and PB versus the smaller players like STW and NSMB?
Will depend on a number of factors.
IIRC some brands can self publish on PB with their press releases (I'm sure being checked by PB pre publish), mebbe the same with vital. Otherwise its most likely that they'll send out a pr and editorial teams will decide what gets published and what doesn't. If there was non selective self publishing across the board, the sites would be full of absolute shite.
Got to say, the Foes blurb and the Mullet Cycles blurb feel pretty similar, especially the description of the 6" rear travel (measured in imperial) and the 170mm front (in metric) Is that just me? Or some weird Americanism?
Hideous, somehow looks like its from the early noughties, awful design and they're asking a lot of that weld infront of the brake mount.
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I'm sorry.... WHAT?
We had a good laugh about that on the thread mboy linked to.
The only thing that interests me mullet wise is the comparative turn in radius (for given lean) of the different wheels.
They touch on it and then ignore it, cheifgrooveguru had a go at explaining it in the other thread.
Overall, very little on it, compared to endless talk about straight line roll over and short poeple arse clearance.
It does rather have the overpowering reek of another dirty stinking mahoosive con...
Spectacular 😂
The DSS thingy video is truly special. The whole thing is really though.
oh dear,
i do like the double bearings tho.
but oh dear
This is about the conclusion I came to.
Simple bike, durable bearings, decent geometry(?), but for £1500 (plus taxes and duty) no thanks.
Can someone somewhere stick a Cannondale Prophet in a photocopier and hit enlarge 110%?
The Foes Mixer is a linkage-driven single-pivot. Completely different! Designed by a highly respected engineer who was behind some important bikes of the past. Completely different!
I saw this on Vital and the brilliant responses from people like Steve @ Vorsprung. What an enormous pile of marketing bullshit! I hadn't seen it since the astroturfing began...
The suspension design is truly awful - and amazingly they've put a graph of how bad it is on their website. It's regressive from 2 to over 2.7, so 35% regression. I presume they didn't understand what the software was telling them and thought that because the graph was going up that it was progressive! 35% progression is a lot, like a Capra or something, would be good for gnarly riding, needs a big volume air shock or a coil. But this is the opposite - needs a tiny volume shock that ramps up like crazy but it'll still be rubbish on small bumps, soggy in the middle, and bottom out too easily.
If they want to design a decent single-pivot they should copy a recent Orange or a Starling - they've arranged the main pivot and shock to achieve almost totally linear leverage. The only way to get some progression is to stick one end of the shock through the lower half of the downtube, like on the 324 - that'll get you about 10% progression.
It really is like "Sick 2 - the halfwits return and now they're in a bigger country..."
CaptainFlashheart
Free MemberCan someone tell me what an “unfavourable speed pocket” is please?
A shart.
rofl 😀
Remember those loony vibration dampening stickers that promised a "Gain in productivity" and "Increased earning", supported by the "Chladni Test"? I'm reminded of that.
I just checked their Instagram. It's very, very reminiscent of Sick. They honestly think they're onto something that the rest of the industry is too stupid to figure out. They've also got an army of fanboys patrolling the comment section.
Thats from a container of 90s far eastern factory frames someone found squirreled away somewhere isn't it? Roll it in glitter, make up some marketing BS and throw it on the net for TWO AND A HALF GRAND!
But, but you can have a rose gold, or diamond headbadge!
*Rose Gold *Cobalt *14k White Gold *Diamonds and *Platinum Head Badges start at $1,299 and go up to $15,000.
They have out hipstered themselves.
https://www.mulletcycles.com/mullet-head-badge/
They’ve also got an army of fanboys patrolling the comment section.
They've got a bit of patrolling to do now 😉
*Rose Gold *Cobalt *14k White Gold *Diamonds and *Platinum Head Badges start at $1,299 and go up to $15,000.
Even Sick weren't that stupid.
The only way to get some progression is to stick one end of the shock through the lower half of the downtube, like on the 324 – that’ll get you about 10% progression.
or, give it a "pregnant" downtube, with the covenient added benefit of water bottle space? or am I misunderstanding?
Bike Geometry is a standard of measure used to market how a bike is supposed to handle. However, geometry plays a very small part in how the bike’s tires contact & react to the ground while in motion.
Well I'm glad they cleared this up. I thought geometry was an actual thing that mattered. Turns out it's just marketing BS.
Even Sick weren’t that stupid.
they may have made some money if they had been...
Well I’m glad they cleared this up. I thought geometry was an actual thing that mattered. Turns out it’s just marketing BS.
Good way to sucker you into buying a 90s/00s "slopestyle" frame they found in a cupboard.
Even Sick weren’t that stupid.
They were. £10k on indiegogo would have (not) got you a bike with loads of unspecified ltd edition/unique kit from their ‘industry contacts’.
Plus, this...
The suspension design is truly awful – and amazingly they’ve put a graph of how bad it is on their website. It’s regressive from 2 to over 2.7, so 35% regression. I presume they didn’t understand what the software was telling them and thought that because the graph was going up that it was progressive!
OK, I didn't delve deep enough into their website to find any statistics on the designs... It is obvious from looking at the design that it's going to be highly regressive, I didn't quite realise just how much by. 35% regression is staggering! I didn't get on with my Starling because it was mildly regressive, even with a DPX2 fitted chock full of volume spacers it still didn't work for me, felt a little harsher off the top that I wanted and didn't have enough mid stroke support or bottom out resistance for my taste. The Starlings are almost linear, only about 5% regression or something from memory...
Every full sus I've owned and liked has had in the region of 25-35% progression built into the linkage design, and has been complemented either by a high volume air shock or a coil shock.
Boasting about a "rising rate" shock leverage curve seems VERY odd... 🤷🏻♂️
And the stuff about the axle path over obstacles... Eh?!?! 🤷🏻♂️
I've just called the shiller out on the Vital thread... "Suspension expert" yet he doesn't realise how a 35% regressive ratio affects the bikes suspension performance?!?! 😧
“ or, give it a “pregnant” downtube, with the covenient added benefit of water bottle space? or am I misunderstanding?”
Well you could, but if you look at all bikes that are shaped like that, the shock connects somewhere else. Intuitively, the last place you want to connect a shock is on that kind of bent bit of tube, as you’ll get some extremes of tension vs compression from the outside vs the inside of the curve, when you bottom out hard.
I think it’s a nice looking bike, but the lack of info and the overflowing amount of marketing BS means that I’m not interested
Looks like they had a proper UK distributor for their hardtails until the middle of last year, but not now? Not that I was about to order one, my bikes develop enough mystery faults of their own when I leave them in the garage, I don't need mystery geometry too.
Looks like calf rub city for me
One of the founders of Mullet is the owner of Miles Wide (Sticky Pod, Fork Cork) so they are legit. The marketing is utter BS though.
https://www.mulletcycles.com/mullet-head-badge/
F whatever cr@p they say about geo or suspension - the head badges spiel has to be the best & worst & most obvious BS I’ve read since forever..
I love, it’s just brilliant unhinged weapons grade codswallop. I feel like bursting out into spontaneous applause - that kind of word salad needs recognition!
$15k for headbadge? Oh my days!
Brightened up my night no end.....
🤣🤣🤣
thisisnotaspoon
Full Member
did no one pick up that they’ve just ripped off a FOES Mixxer – a quick google shows it is indeed identicle..They look nothing alike?
My bad, should have been clearer, but as pointed out the blurb from website, though still think the look has been copied, badly..
Anybody with any relevant CAD/CAM software fancy measuring this from a few known datum points...? The pic isn't absolutely square on, but it's close enough to approximate with a few constants to measure from
What do we know?
-Shock is 230mm eye to eye.
-Rear rim is 38mm smaller diameter than front rim
-Cane Creek Helm mk2 fork is 568mm A2C @ 160mm travel apparently (doesn't go longer than 160mm)
-The TLE Speedgrip Apex sidewall Hans Dampfs were only available in 2.6 and 2.8" widths (my eyesight isn't good enough to see what widths are fitted, though 29 was only available in 2.6")
-Tacx Shiva 500ml bottle by the looks of it (please don't ask how I'm such a bottle geek!) which is 195mm tall base to tip according to my ruler.
-Front rotor looks like a 203mm
-Pretty certain it's a 51mm offset fork, judging by the forward offset of the crown.
And then we have the limited geometry they've decided to share...
GEOMETRY:
Peacemaker Size Chart
Small Medium Large
ETT 23.5” / 597mm 24.5” / 622mm 25.5” / 648mm
Reach 432mm 457mm 480mm
Head Tube 3.75” / 95mm 4.1” / 105mm 4.6” / 117mm
Seat Tube 15.2” / 386mm 15.7” / 400mm 16.7” / 425mm
StandOver 26.25”/ 666.75mm 27.25”/ 692.15mm 28.25” / 717.55m
Should be enough for someone with the means to do it to be able to come up with a decent approximation of the geometry fairly quickly... Deconstruct the "secret sauce" as it were...
sharkattack
Free MemberI just checked their Instagram. It’s very, very reminiscent of Sick. They honestly think they’re onto something that the rest of the industry is too stupid to figure out.
Sounds completely unlike Sick tbh, the only thing they'd put any thought into was the theft.
These guys, I dunno. Endless endless pointless fluff but they won't share basic geo, that's such an alarm bell. Doesn't seem the same as Sick, seems more like incredible stupidity than fraud. They even draw attention to it, "This has DBG Geometry". But that's NEED TO KNOW INFORMATION.
I do like how much it looks like a saracen raw 2, though
Mullet Bikes Inc seem so close to Sick! in look/feel/attitude/approach that it can't be a coincidence, so they either looked at the whole Sick! debacle and thought:
1) These guys really did a great job of launching a new bike brand, which is also my goal, I will emulate them
or
2) These guys really did a great job of ripping people off, which is also my goal, I will emulate them.
My theory is that Vitalmtb saw how much traffic the Sick! threads generated, and have created a copycat in order to bump visits to their site.
Was vaguely interested enough to spend 10 mins on this - approx scaled off the rim and rotor. Photo isn't really good for it but it's a guide.
Not a very interesting result. BB drop is minimal, that's about all that stood out.
All the copy and press reads a bit 'MTB for flat earthers'.
Looks quite normal, if a tad short in reach (but no idea what size we are looking at).
BB drop is about the width of a chain.
Static bb drop of big travel 650 bikes is about the same.
Although as you will have to run about 10% sag to avoid bottoming out, it will sit higher.
All the copy and press reads a bit ‘MTB for flat earthers’.
Haha that's exactly what I was thinking while reading the science bits of their website. It's shocking really.
I went to see if there was any new Instagram activity just to find they've deleted almost all of the comments overnight. They've only left a handful of positive ones.
They’ve only left a handful of positive ones.
Sounds familiar. Have they offered to fight anyone yet?
Looks like they've done a massive flounce
It was a scam - pure & simple.
Shark attack - looks fine to me when I check their instagram just now. Have you been blocked by them?
Ha! That's outrageous. All I did was say it looks very quiet in here and asked where all the comments had gone. How defensive can you get?
Oh well, at least I'm not the one who's bought a container full of frames from Alibaba and has no idea how to sell them.
Yup, looks like sharkattack has been hit with their little ban hammer
Static bb drop of big travel 650 bikes is about the same.
True, I hadn't realised it was as long travel as it is. Fork should have been a giveaway.
I think they've probably just been drinking their own Kool-Aid a bit much is all. After all we've seem the made-up joke acronym thing before...Apart from the mullet wheels, the bikes seem pretty much middle of the road generic, so looks to me like they've decided that offering customisable head-badges*, and being a bit "detail light" on the "secret" geometry to build interest.
Mleh.
* Yeah, does nothing for me either, but some folks will love it no doubt.
Just caught up with this. Proper old school in some ways - basic swingarm suspension on the fs, and (even more retro) raised chainstays on the ht. With a good dose of engineering bollocks thrown in (also old school, but still with us and not just from this lot). But, to be fair, its new engineering bollocks. They could have resurrected "instant center tracking" for the full retro feel.
I’m sorry…. WHAT?
That graphic gave me a proper giggle, presumably as long as the front axle is higher then any bump sends you into orbit (not like you can't do that anyway, I forget the technical term).
@chiefgrooveguru there seems to be some weight to the Mixxer claim if you rummage around the dumpster fire, it seems they previously sold them and started getting ideas well above their station before being told to do one if the comments are to be believed.
There is a mention of a 'business partnership gone bad' on their blurb. Why anyone would mention this is beyond me. For every person that thinks 'poor sod, good luck to him', there will be another one who thinks 'that's his story, who did he shaft?'
Have you seen their Insta post from today?! Genuinely does read like a Sick! back story!
....and it also looks like the pictures were taken on a potato.
….and it also looks like the pictures were taken on a potato.
*Laughs in bearded trampreneur*
Reading the comments section of that VitalMTB story it's a case of getting their revenge in first. Seems like their dealings with Foes went South pretty rapidly
I think you are all missing the point.
It tracks like a squirrel on a pine tree
Hell yeah! I'm in.